Innocent Until Proven Guilty?

[JBowling]

Bear with me, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this but I figured I would give it a shot. Please Read All, there is a wrestling side to this.

As you all know, Michael Jackson died this week. It's All over the news. He's being honored for his contributions to music. But after the music, he is known as a child molester. Why doesnt he get the Chris Benoit treatment? Becuase some people say he didnt do it?

Well noone saw Benoit do what he supposedly did. I dont believe Benoit did it. Theres no history of it, plus it was reported on Wikipedia before details were released.

My question. Why doesn't Michael just get ignored for what he did that brought shame to his name? Like being known as a child molester should get no honor. And if they continue to honor him, and for those who thinks he deserves honor for his contributions to music, why doesnt Benoit get honor and tribute for his contributions to wrestling?

Just Saying. One isn't better than the other.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Because Benoit did it and Jackson was proven to not have done it, in court at least. That's the main reason.

But I do still dislike Michael Jackson for what he might or might not have done.

It's also similar to people being fans of Mike Tyson, even though he's a nasty rapist.

 

[JBowling]

but jackson being found innocent in court doesnt prove anything. it would have been impossible to find a jury that wasnt a fan of michael and ready to declare him innocent

 

[Y 2 Jake]

They have this thing called evidence. If they have enough of it relating to a crime commited then more often than not people are put away.

He was found innocent, weather he was or not, people forgive that.

Benoit killed two people, confirmed. I'm no mastermind when it comes to shit like that. But I'm guessing murder is easier to confirm that a bit of light fondling.

 

[JBowling]

maybe. but there is also a thread in here, i forget where, that has evidence that points that maybe it wasnt benoit, but i master plan for a triple murder made to look like a double murder/suicide. just saying. just becuase TV says it doesnt make it true.

 

[BooCocky]

Well you are looking at this wrong, people were in the position to prove Benoit as the murderer and they did. Michaels on the other hand wasn't found guilty. The first time Michaels was accused it was settled and dropped because of the lack of evidence. And the second time he was found not guilty on all charges.

So, all in all, Benoit was convicted and Jackson wasn't. To be honest, are you really questioning the authority of great forensic scientists, top notch judges and a court system that has effectively worked for years? You're delusional, Benoit was a murderer, and Jackson was not a child molester.

but jackson being found innocent in court doesnt prove anything. it would have been impossible to find a jury that wasnt a fan of michael and ready to declare him innocent

That's bullshit, when they have a jury they are going to find the most unbiased people they can. The lack of evidence on the Peoples part proved Jacksons innocence. The evidence on Benoit proved him guilty. You see what I did here?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

No, but facts say that it is true.

Benoit did it. The only thing intresting about the whole situation now is if he was aware of what he was doing and how much brain damage he had.

 

[Sinclair101]

To what you said about finding a jury that wasn't a fan of Jackson, the Jury actually believed he did it, but there was not enough evidence to convict the man...

im not someone to stick up for Jackson as i believe he did it myself, and i am not a fan of his at all.

but Benoit did it... as much as we would all love to believe that it was Kevin Sullivan.... he did it....

 

[Y 2 Jake]

A prankster. I'm going to change the page of Jennifer Love Hewitt in a just a couple of minutes.

Benoit had a wife in the business, he didn't make an event. Changing a Wiki page to make up a story is what internet wrestling geeks would do.

 

[Blade]

Well you see, there was lots of evidence that showed Benoit killed his family. His fingerprints found on the neck of his family. His brain scans showed he suffered from dementia. Between the evidence and the scan showing what kind of state of mind he was in cause by the shots to the head and Eddie's death, there was no other explanation other than Chris Benoit killed his family.

In the Jackson case, there was another explanation. Y'know, the explanation that he didn't do it.
There was no evidence to prosecute him. Why was there no evidence? Well this might clear things up:
http://awkwardstar.wordpress.com/2009/06/27/jordan-chandler-admits-he-lied-about-michael-jackson/

 

[JBowling]

well thats strange, but there were still a couple other cases, were there not? being said innocent in front of a jury is nothing for jackson, who was apparently bigger than jesus(the way the media portrays, you would think he was) but hes not. just another white dude.

 

[oilergk]

I'm just going to come out and say this to you JBowling, after reading your thoughts on the Benoit case and the Michael Jackson case I am now a believer. Congratulations, you've convinced me. The bad news is that you didn't convince me that Benoit was innocent or that Michael did or didn't do it. You convinced me that a completely sane person who managed to pull off a 30 on his ACT can be made dumber without any medical conditions. I read your posts and I would be astounded if I could pull off a 12 on my ACT now. There was a mountain of evidence that Benoit did it. You said someone had a "master plan" and could have framed him? I'm not going to dignify that with a response. As for the wikipedia argument (which seems to be your only semi-logical defense), I forgot all about the conspiracy that is wikipedia. You see, wikipedia is just a cover for the world's most deadly assassins. They got Benoit, Michael Jackson, and even Billy Mays. But you were smart enough to see through all that. Congratulations...ass.

 

[BooCocky]

Like I stated in an earlier post that case given days, well shit, it was given roughly 580 days to deliberate on the case. and still Jackson was found innocent in the court of law. Everything was dropped and yet he was still portrayed as a pedophile just because the media will not let shit like this die even though they are so fucking wrong. Just get over it dude. The first case was dropped and MJ was not charged, and the second case he was found not guilty on all charges.

Blade, I found that story you posted to be a hoax. If you follow the link on the bottom it leads to another story where they get the kids name wrong. I just think someone wrote that just to get views and making people to believe he lied...

 

[JBowling]

its all opinion guys and gals. i believe he did it, no matter what a jury says. you believe he didnt do it. thats fine with me. we have a different set of opinions.

Just like with Benoit. I dont believe he did it, and you do. again, a different set of opinions.

Thats what makes america great. you can have an opinion regardless of what others think. HOWEVER, posting an insult to me, like oilergk, will get you reported. Just ask him.

This is a place to discuss your thoughts on what i started the thread for, not what you think of me as a person. i have an opinion and i choose to express it.

 

[BooCocky]

its all opinion guys and gals. i believe he did it, no matter what a jury says. you believe he didnt do it. thats fine with me. we have a different set of opinions.

Just like with Benoit. I dont believe he did it, and you do. again, a different set of opinions.

Thats what makes america great. you can have an opinion regardless of what others think. HOWEVER, posting an insult to me, like oilergk, will get you reported. Just ask him.

This is a place to discuss your thoughts on what i started the thread for, not what you think of me as a person. i have an opinion and i choose to express it.

Yes but having an opinion and knowing what is right are two completely different things. You can believe Benoit is not a murderer, but all the evidenced picked up by the professionals are proving otherwise. You can believe MJ is a rapist but all the evidence or lack thereof is saying something completely different.

In the eye of the court, Benoit is a murderer and MJ is not labeled as a rapist. Those are facts and you can't dispute that.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

well thats strange, but there were still a couple other cases, were there not? being said innocent in front of a jury is nothing for jackson, who was apparently bigger than jesus(the way the media portrays, you would think he was) but hes not. just another white dude.

Uh Michael Jackson was black. Anyways, to find someone guilty there has to be "proof beyond a resonable doubt" if there isn't any, then they can't convict. Did Michael do it, I think so, but there wasn't enough evidence to prove it. Remember in the late 90's I believe it was, he was accused of the same thing, but settled ut of court for the sum of believe 20 mil. So yeah he was guilty, just like OJ was guilty, but there was resonable doubt, so no conviction. No with Benoit, there was no reasonable doubt. He did it plain and simple and while there are conspiracy theorists out there, there will be some who think it was a mastermind of a setup, just like the government had JFK and MLK killed and the landing on the moon was fake as was vietnam. So yeah.

But none the less, all those people I listed made major contributions to their feilds or country or race or religion, so should Benoit be blacklisted in death? No. We should remember what he was, not what he became.

 

[BooCocky]

Uh Michael Jackson was black. Anyways, to find someone guilty there has to be "proof beyond a resonable doubt" if there isn't any, then they can't convict. Did Michael do it, I think so, but there wasn't enough evidence to prove it. Remember in the late 90's I believe it was, he was accused of the same thing, but settled ut of court for the sum of believe 20 mil. So yeah he was guilty, just like OJ was guilty, but there was resonable doubt, so no conviction. No with Benoit, there was no reasonable doubt. He did it plain and simple and while there are conspiracy theorists out there, there will be some who think it was a mastermind of a setup, just like the government had JFK and MLK killed and the landing on the moon was fake as was vietnam. So yeah.

But none the less, all those people I listed made major contributions to their feilds or country or race or religion, so should Benoit be blacklisted in death? No. We should remember what he was, not what he became.

I believe it was 22 million dollars but that isn't even the point here. MJ wanted to settle so his image wasn't destroyed. He could have gone through the whole courting process and came up innocent and he still could have been a rapist in the public eye. During that whole courting process he could have lost more than 22 millions dollars so maybe he was thinking it was a wise settlement? I don't believe MJ is a rapist, I believe he settled to protect his image and not let the little problem tarnish his legacy. He could have settled because he did do wrong, but i believe he settled to protect his legacy and not let this accusation put an asterisk on his legacy.

 

[JBowling]

i think so far the only person that has gotten my point is badboybydesign. Michael is remembered for what he was b4 the child molesting came into play. A Great musician.

Just like Benoit should be remembered for what he was b4 the "murders" of his wife and kid and himself(quotations because i dont believe he did it), a great technical wrestler.

 

[oilergk]

Okay, this is just out of curiosity, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or insulting, but besides the wikipedia thing, why do you think Benoit was innocent?

 

[RazorsEdge666]

Also benoit was rumored to be giving his son hgh, it is known his son was slightly ******ed or something and was small for his age... a dementia brain says a little bit because he injected his son with hgh... i mean they did find needle marks and elevated levels of hgh... i DONT think the little tiger was on heroin....

 

[Spaceman Spif]

I believe it was 22 million dollars but that isn't even the point here. MJ wanted to settle so his image wasn't destroyed. He could have gone through the whole courting process and came up innocent and he still could have been a rapist in the public eye. During that whole courting process he could have lost more than 22 millions dollars so maybe he was thinking it was a wise settlement? I don't believe MJ is a rapist, I believe he settled to protect his image and not let the little problem tarnish his legacy. He could have settled because he did do wrong, but i believe he settled to protect his legacy and not let this accusation put an asterisk on his legacy.

This here is just a difference of opinion, I believe he settled, because he didn't want to be found guilty, but that's what makes the reasonable doubt work and why he wasn't convicted, because others like you believed he was innocent, and the evidence did not support both sides enough to make a clear verdict. Not to say though, that I didn't like his music, I did, I thought he was a world class entertainer and performer, I just also think he had a perversion for touching little boys, but should that tarnish what he gave to the music community? No. However I think most if not everyone except one or two people agree Benoit was guilty. Again though should that tarnish his contributions? No.
So innocent until proven guilty? No, just not enough evidence and there was resonable doubt.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

i think so far the only person that has gotten my point is badboybydesign. Michael is remembered for what he was b4 the child molesting came into play. A Great musician.

Just like Benoit should be remembered for what he was b4 the "murders" of his wife and kid and himself(quotations because i dont believe he did it), a great technical wrestler.

Oh yes I completely get your point, but I still think Benoint did it, I just understand what you are saying and no he should be wiped out of the historybooks for it. What he did to his family and himself was and is unforgivable, but that to me doesn't take away that he was one of the greatest techinical wrestler's ever.

 

[BooCocky]

i think so far the only person that has gotten my point is badboybydesign. Michael is remembered for what he was b4 the child molesting came into play. A Great musician.

Just like Benoit should be remembered for what he was b4 the "murders" of his wife and kid and himself(quotations because i dont believe he did it), a great technical wrestler.

How the fuck didn't Benoit do it? It was fucking proven. He fucking strangled his son, did something to his mother and in the process killed himself. No one broke in to his house, and a thing like this wouldn't have gone two years without something leaking out. Especially with the media we have today.

Benoit was sending out some strange text messages, was telling people some strange things and he didn't show up the night of the PPV. There was no signs of forced entry in the Benoit house. All the signs led to Benoit. Nothing was found, not a hair sample or some fingerprints that weren't those of the Benoits.

Benoit was guilty, Jackson wasn't. Jackson's career was killed because of these false accusations, what else do you possibly want? They let our courts settle this and you don't believe them... Gosh...

If i can recall Benoit was only wiped from the WWE and rightfully so. That isn't a label a successful businessman wants over his business. The WWE was already labeled and criticized in the public eye because of the recent death. Benoits death was the last straw, so McMahon did the only thing he could. Wipe Benoit out from his history books to help his business.

 

[JBowling]

oilergk, because i have seen a list of evidence that just doesnt show benoit as the perpetrator(spell?). he just doesnt have that in him i dont think, and everyone knows he loved his kid.

King Beck-ah. Dude, i wouldnt trust our court systems for anything. they are so corrupt now-a-days, i would believe anything Osama Bin Laden said before our court system.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

oilergk, because i have seen a list of evidence that just doesnt show benoit as the perpetrator(spell?). he just doesnt have that in him i dont think, and everyone knows he loved his kid.

King Beck-ah. Dude, i wouldnt trust our court systems for anything. they are so corrupt now-a-days, i would believe anything Osama Bin Laden said before our court system.

See now you are leaning towards consparicy theorist with the whole court system thing. Yes there are flaws, but really it's the best legal system out there and it's all we have. I trust it, but I understand they make mistakes, that's why OJ was aquited. But I sitll trust it.

As far as this whole thread goes, we can all argue are case until we are blue in the face, but it will not change our own opinons of what we think, however the discussion is nice. lol. I just honestle believe that neither man with what happened outside of the professions should let that tarnish their reputations with the profession.