And considering this man thinks I'm a cunt (?), that should likely tell you a lot.
Impact Support Club House
- Thread starter It's Damn Real!
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And considering this man thinks I'm a cunt (?), that should likely tell you a lot.
George Steele's Barber
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That man putting that woman through a table in this situation is going too far. Similar acts in 1999 were shameful then and it is shameful now. I usually support professional wrestling's questionable moral stance in the name of entertainment but this is going too far.
Enjoy popping a 1.3 TNA.
Enjoy popping a 1.3 TNA.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
1. Most of time yes.
2. True.
3. Indeed.
4. If it was actual violence and sexual assault, I'd agree.
5. Why? I like TNA and watch is because I do.
FitFinlay4Life
What's the craic?
Has this forum completely dropped the spoiler ban?
They're allowed in the Bar Room.
I don't even know who you are I'm afraid. Probably still a cunt, but that's just playing the statistics.
Today's job is sitting around in a business suit waiting for a Skype interview for a job in Saudi Arabia - so I'm going to pen something real about violence against women in wrestling.
The debate can slow down; Gelgarin will be back in a few hours to let you know what you should think.
Dan Severn's Moustache
Patent Pending
As a general question to everyone here while I continue to watch this conversation unfold: If you were a TNA booker tasked with crafting a Dixie Carter vs Bully Ray feud, how would you proceed?
I don't know if you're using Firefox, but if you do Lazarus lets you recover lost forms, avoiding these annoyances in the future.
1) / 2) Violence is generally wrong. (Or as a consequentialist I'd say usually wrong.)
3) Wrestling has always tried to preserve its image of realness, so this would be a pretty lame excuse to fall back on.
FitFinlay4Life
What's the craic?
Ugh! That'll make avoiding them with TNA taping so far into the future fun then!
With a gun in my mouth.
Anyone notice Dixie corpsing as Ray set her up? No, seriously. She can be seen desperately holding back a cheshire grin on her face as she's 10 above the air. Brave woman she is for taking such a sick bump for her brand and genuinely injuring herself. And after all the endless debates about the 6 sided rung being more painful.
Dixie more than earned my respect. Not for mutilating herself. But for showing she'll do anything for her product, and godammit its the same shit. Well Van Gogh cut his ear off and people say it was artsy.
If anything, I saw it as a villain getting their comeuppance rather than a woman being beaten. Which was the point. But just like with Cena winning the title. Again. It wouldn't be wrestling without heated debate.
Dixie more than earned my respect. Not for mutilating herself. But for showing she'll do anything for her product, and godammit its the same shit. Well Van Gogh cut his ear off and people say it was artsy.
If anything, I saw it as a villain getting their comeuppance rather than a woman being beaten. Which was the point. But just like with Cena winning the title. Again. It wouldn't be wrestling without heated debate.
George Steele's Barber
Advertise Here $9.95/month
I would bring in Bob Carter as an authority figure. Then I would have Dixie and Bully get romantically involved. Do a wedding on Impact that goes awry due to a an attack from a strange biker gang that serves no rhyme or reason. Reveal Bully to be the leader and get him the title.
I know this sounds like Brooke and Aces and Eights but it is different since there are no hammers involved.
Dan Severn's Moustache
Patent Pending
I'll answer my own question:
The truth is, I don't want to cheer for a guy who powerbombs a powerless middle aged woman no matter what the woman has done. I can understand the justification of Dixie deserving a humiliating fate, but a viscous assault isn't going to make me like Bully Ray either. It would make him too cold-blooded to sympathize with, and that's harmful to the integrity of the product, seeing as the goal of the feud is to get Bully Ray over as a babyface. I don't want to like a guy that only sees victory by annihilating a middle aged woman. I want to like a guy that makes sure the villain sees her comeuppance without becoming too unlikeable. Plot devices would help here in this regard to drive the story and deliver a satisfying outcome for everyone watching.
My point is, there are other ways to get Bully Ray over as a badass face in defeating Dixie Carter without alienating a portion of your fanbase. Have Bully humiliate her henchmen, or if you want to go a step further, have him trash her house or car. Be inventive if you have to. There are other ways to do it instead of glorifying man on woman violence.
Also, the disparaging comments aren't necessary. We can have an intelligent discussion about this without having to throw insults at one another for our varying points of view.
Zeven_Zion
King Of The Ring
Feminism strives for equality between genders (among a billion other things). Dixie got the same treatment that a bad GUY would've. Through the table you go. Only difference is she got some chocolate from Devon. To me, it would've been sexist if they didn't drive her through the table. Why? Just because she's a woman and there's 30 of them? Too bad.
Was the kiss taking it too far? Maybe, if you're some politically correct, overly defensive, terribly *****fied, soft-ass "feminist". Otherwise, you'll chuckle, see her fly through the air and enjoy the antagonist getting beat up like in every story in the history of ever where an evil woman was messing over good people. Dixie had it easy, actually. 'Member the chick from Ace Ventura: Pet Detective? The one with the penis on her bum?
Ah, fun times.
I think the Dixie thing was was cool. I think it was perfect storytelling. I think they should do it again. I think it was fun television. In fact, if they had shoved a big black ***** up her ass and wrote "****" on her forehead before they drove her through the table, I might've squeezed a tear out. Not out of sadness, but of happiness.
'Cause I know that feminist guy's head would pop like a grape. And honestly, I'd dismember your little arguments without sounding like an immature cunt myself, if I didn't think people like you were such a damn joke. Where were you in the 90's, for Christ sake. It's like you all spawned from hell mid 2005 when other sheep started crying, bitching and moaning just because they could.
P.S: I got a stiffy when her dome bounced off a chunk of the table. Lovely.
Was the kiss taking it too far? Maybe, if you're some politically correct, overly defensive, terribly *****fied, soft-ass "feminist". Otherwise, you'll chuckle, see her fly through the air and enjoy the antagonist getting beat up like in every story in the history of ever where an evil woman was messing over good people. Dixie had it easy, actually. 'Member the chick from Ace Ventura: Pet Detective? The one with the penis on her bum?
Ah, fun times.
I think the Dixie thing was was cool. I think it was perfect storytelling. I think they should do it again. I think it was fun television. In fact, if they had shoved a big black ***** up her ass and wrote "****" on her forehead before they drove her through the table, I might've squeezed a tear out. Not out of sadness, but of happiness.
'Cause I know that feminist guy's head would pop like a grape. And honestly, I'd dismember your little arguments without sounding like an immature cunt myself, if I didn't think people like you were such a damn joke. Where were you in the 90's, for Christ sake. It's like you all spawned from hell mid 2005 when other sheep started crying, bitching and moaning just because they could.
P.S: I got a stiffy when her dome bounced off a chunk of the table. Lovely.
You must be a lot of fun at parties, and clearly have no issues with women whatsoever.
Well Van Gogh cut his ear off and people say it was artsy.
Van Gogh cut his ear off because he was a Schizophrenic who thought a part of his ear would show his affections to a woman who was going to leave town. The paintings of himself without the ear though some of the self-paintings he did with the missing ear are the most expensive.
For anyone not willing to sift through the shit list, here's the meat of my argument to JMT...
Again, I'm sure of that, too.
What I'm also sure of, is that every god damned day, I get a new patient coming into where I work, battered by their husband. And what I'm telling you, and what you're too thick to get, is that our culture has for centuries marginalized man on woman violence, to the point that it's becoming normal. We have a clear rape problem in our colleges, to the point that we're normalizing sexual abuse at an earlier age
I won't be upset if you don't read the whole study; I wouldn't expect a mouth breather like you to make it past the first page. But I'm not making this shit up... We normalize abuse of woman, and it's causing problems. Because our young men are feeling entitled to a woman's body, in every stretch of the meaning.
Why? Because subconsciously, our young men are saying more and more instances in our media of rape and attack of women either being ignored, or glorified.
Sut Jhally did a study about this, involving music videos. I'll save you the "tedium" and present the five minute snippet.
Not surprisingly, Sut Jhally also did a documentary regarding this same male entitlement in wrestling
Oh, right... Little bite sizes...
So, if you bothered to even take part in half of what I presented you, you would find that, even if Dixie Carter enjoys what she's doing, she's still helping to propagate the same rape culture that's causing such a massive issue.
In short, even if she is a willing participant, Dixie Carter is still taking part in building up rape culture. This isn't theory, this is studied out fact. Even if this was in Dixie's will, she still helps prop this culture up. The problem is that, when that culture is perpetuated, some men will look to it and say think, on a subconscious level, "My [wife/mother/girlfriend/insert other woman in their lives] sure is being a huge bitch. I'd better put her in her place. There's nothing wrong with that, because TV and movies have told me it's OK."
Of course, the violent man bears primary responsibility for his own actions in that scenario, but TNA perpetuating the culture that allows that thought process to exist is disturbing and irresponsible.
Yes, I understand that. The problem is, if this were the real world, there would be actual consequences for all of these actions. Bully Ray would go to prison; wrestling fans would see the actual consequences behind everyone's actions, Dixie's included. Here, they don't see any consequences, except for Dixie. Subconsciously, a message is sent.
And, as the above videos show, there's a clear distance from the reality and fiction that people surround themselves in. People do imitate, either subconsciously or otherwise, the things they see on television.
Fake, or not.
She'd also likely have consequences to her actions before any of this happened...
Except, subconsciously, people take a message out of it. A message that translates into their real lives, a message that's disgusting.
Again, I'm sure of that, too.
What I'm also sure of, is that every god damned day, I get a new patient coming into where I work, battered by their husband. And what I'm telling you, and what you're too thick to get, is that our culture has for centuries marginalized man on woman violence, to the point that it's becoming normal. We have a clear rape problem in our colleges, to the point that we're normalizing sexual abuse at an earlier age
I won't be upset if you don't read the whole study; I wouldn't expect a mouth breather like you to make it past the first page. But I'm not making this shit up... We normalize abuse of woman, and it's causing problems. Because our young men are feeling entitled to a woman's body, in every stretch of the meaning.
Why? Because subconsciously, our young men are saying more and more instances in our media of rape and attack of women either being ignored, or glorified.
Sut Jhally did a study about this, involving music videos. I'll save you the "tedium" and present the five minute snippet.
[YOUTUBE]JDMo5cIJN3A[/YOUTUBE]
Not surprisingly, Sut Jhally also did a documentary regarding this same male entitlement in wrestling
Oh, right... Little bite sizes...
[YOUTUBE]ikDXcfzA848[/YOUTUBE]
So, if you bothered to even take part in half of what I presented you, you would find that, even if Dixie Carter enjoys what she's doing, she's still helping to propagate the same rape culture that's causing such a massive issue.
In short, even if she is a willing participant, Dixie Carter is still taking part in building up rape culture. This isn't theory, this is studied out fact. Even if this was in Dixie's will, she still helps prop this culture up. The problem is that, when that culture is perpetuated, some men will look to it and say think, on a subconscious level, "My [wife/mother/girlfriend/insert other woman in their lives] sure is being a huge bitch. I'd better put her in her place. There's nothing wrong with that, because TV and movies have told me it's OK."
Of course, the violent man bears primary responsibility for his own actions in that scenario, but TNA perpetuating the culture that allows that thought process to exist is disturbing and irresponsible.
Yes, I understand that. The problem is, if this were the real world, there would be actual consequences for all of these actions. Bully Ray would go to prison; wrestling fans would see the actual consequences behind everyone's actions, Dixie's included. Here, they don't see any consequences, except for Dixie. Subconsciously, a message is sent.
And, as the above videos show, there's a clear distance from the reality and fiction that people surround themselves in. People do imitate, either subconsciously or otherwise, the things they see on television.
Fake, or not.
She'd also likely have consequences to her actions before any of this happened...
Except, subconsciously, people take a message out of it. A message that translates into their real lives, a message that's disgusting.
Here's the problem with you, Tenta... you take an extreme leap to me defending a pro wrestling angle, to me supporting "rape culture" and actually advocating acts of violence towards women. That isn't the case here, at all.
Truth be told, I don't even like TNA at the moment. I haven't watched a second of it since EY won the title, and it was a while before then as well. And I'm sure if I was watching, I'd root for Dixie over Bully Ray any day since I hate his guts. It was purely an accident that I even opened this thread to begin with, but I felt the need to jump in not because I really care about the angle, but because of how you present your arguments.
Being sensitive towards a pro wrestling angle, and saying fuck an entire fanbase, are two entirely different things. And that's something you do on a regular basis. Your posting style is, "You're a piece of shit who deserves to rot in hell if you don't agree with me," while also making extreme generalizations. And it's ridiculous. It's hard to even back you up when you're right about something when that's your style of posting.
Anyway, I love women, and believe it or not, I'm VERY sympathetic towards any innocent woman who has suffered real life abuse of any kind. However, I don't take pro wrestling angles seriously... if that makes me a piece of shit, then so be it. I applaud Dixie for having the courage to do what she did, and I don't fault a single fan who enjoys seeing a villain get thrown threw a table, because the fact of the matter is that 95% of the people in attendance who cheered, and 95% of the people who will enjoy watching it at home, would ALL be disgusted with Bully Ray if he punched Dixie Carter forreal backstage during an event and would never forgive him for it.
Truth be told, I don't even like TNA at the moment. I haven't watched a second of it since EY won the title, and it was a while before then as well. And I'm sure if I was watching, I'd root for Dixie over Bully Ray any day since I hate his guts. It was purely an accident that I even opened this thread to begin with, but I felt the need to jump in not because I really care about the angle, but because of how you present your arguments.
Being sensitive towards a pro wrestling angle, and saying fuck an entire fanbase, are two entirely different things. And that's something you do on a regular basis. Your posting style is, "You're a piece of shit who deserves to rot in hell if you don't agree with me," while also making extreme generalizations. And it's ridiculous. It's hard to even back you up when you're right about something when that's your style of posting.
Anyway, I love women, and believe it or not, I'm VERY sympathetic towards any innocent woman who has suffered real life abuse of any kind. However, I don't take pro wrestling angles seriously... if that makes me a piece of shit, then so be it. I applaud Dixie for having the courage to do what she did, and I don't fault a single fan who enjoys seeing a villain get thrown threw a table, because the fact of the matter is that 95% of the people in attendance who cheered, and 95% of the people who will enjoy watching it at home, would ALL be disgusted with Bully Ray if he punched Dixie Carter forreal backstage during an event and would never forgive him for it.
Zeven_Zion
King Of The Ring
No one cares about your argument, so stop parading it around because it's really nothing to be proud of. You're the millionth PC ****** who goes around pointing the finger at a genre made famous thanks to controversy involving sexism, violence (emotional and physical), abuse based on religion, race, gender, sexuality, culture, ethnicity.
Wrestling is just like any other form of entertainment these days. Look around, flip the channel and you'll find something that is not politically correct within minutes. You did not reinvent the wheel, you make no sense and your bitching has no point and no effect on anybody. You're just yapping for absolutely no reason aside from to sound smart (at least to yourself), nothing you said has any point or validity because this is a fake show.
If we were enjoying an ACTUAL defenseless woman getting surrounded by 30 sweaty body builders before being forcefully kissed on the mouth and driven through a table then you have a solid fucking case. But we were not. We were watching A TV SHOW! Both men and women have been disgraced in movies, songs, videos, games, books and ANY other form of art. It's how things are. Any form of entertainment nowadays (movies, TV shows, video games, music) is meant to act as a form of escapism. We watch it in order to witness things we normally would not. We deal with it because there are no consequences since it's not REAL. It evokes an emotional response in us that teaches us more about ourselves and it allows us to experience things we otherwise would not be able to. In this case, it is seeing an abusive female boss barely surviving being dumped through a table after torturing her roster and insulting the fans for months. It's a good STORY. It's revenge, justice, whatever you want to call it. Typical American happy ending bullshit where the bad bad lady gets her back broken so Americans can go to bed knowing the evil people are always punished so they can wake up tomorrow and buy shit again. In peace. What's so mystifying about that?
I don't enjoy REAL violence on women, not one bit. I wrote my dissertation on the topic of feminism (first, second and third-wave) so don't you even get me started on that subject. I don't like abuse based on nationality, religion or any other personal trait. But in a TV show all gloves are off. That's what's so beautiful about it. You can sit back, see and experience things you normally wouldn't. Myself, as well as a shit-load of people on these forums, can detach ourselves from our moral compass, relax and enjoy ANY kind of programming.
You're the idiot who compares this to gang rape. You're the idiot who takes it too seriously. You're the idiot who over-reacts to something that, let's face it, is pretty damn tame by today's standards.
Now shut the fuck up and eat that shit I told you to, you cosmic twat. <3
Wrestling is just like any other form of entertainment these days. Look around, flip the channel and you'll find something that is not politically correct within minutes. You did not reinvent the wheel, you make no sense and your bitching has no point and no effect on anybody. You're just yapping for absolutely no reason aside from to sound smart (at least to yourself), nothing you said has any point or validity because this is a fake show.
If we were enjoying an ACTUAL defenseless woman getting surrounded by 30 sweaty body builders before being forcefully kissed on the mouth and driven through a table then you have a solid fucking case. But we were not. We were watching A TV SHOW! Both men and women have been disgraced in movies, songs, videos, games, books and ANY other form of art. It's how things are. Any form of entertainment nowadays (movies, TV shows, video games, music) is meant to act as a form of escapism. We watch it in order to witness things we normally would not. We deal with it because there are no consequences since it's not REAL. It evokes an emotional response in us that teaches us more about ourselves and it allows us to experience things we otherwise would not be able to. In this case, it is seeing an abusive female boss barely surviving being dumped through a table after torturing her roster and insulting the fans for months. It's a good STORY. It's revenge, justice, whatever you want to call it. Typical American happy ending bullshit where the bad bad lady gets her back broken so Americans can go to bed knowing the evil people are always punished so they can wake up tomorrow and buy shit again. In peace. What's so mystifying about that?
I don't enjoy REAL violence on women, not one bit. I wrote my dissertation on the topic of feminism (first, second and third-wave) so don't you even get me started on that subject. I don't like abuse based on nationality, religion or any other personal trait. But in a TV show all gloves are off. That's what's so beautiful about it. You can sit back, see and experience things you normally wouldn't. Myself, as well as a shit-load of people on these forums, can detach ourselves from our moral compass, relax and enjoy ANY kind of programming.
You're the idiot who compares this to gang rape. You're the idiot who takes it too seriously. You're the idiot who over-reacts to something that, let's face it, is pretty damn tame by today's standards.
Now shut the fuck up and eat that shit I told you to, you cosmic twat. <3
It's Damn Real!
The undisputed, undefeated TNA &
So basically, you care little about the actual subject manner, and more about the fact I may have hurt a feeling or two, or that I typecast a group of fans?
I've presented exactly why I feel the way I do. If you disagree, great, but that doesn't make either you or I any less right or wrong. What I saw was 1,200 fans cheer a 300 pound man attacking a middle aged woman.
Is it fake? Sure. Is it communicating a message that's prevalent in the media, that's causing major issues in society? To me, Yes. So if TNA wants to and recreate ECW for the forty billionth time, and propagate a certain image of women, that's their prerogative. It's also my prerogative to say my thoughts, and express why this a problem.
And if fucktards like Zion can't get it, too bad.
You're wrong. I care about his point. The line should be drawn at some point. You forget that wrestling, unlike Game of Thrones, Dexter or any of those shows, is marketed as a FAMILY product. Whether the rating is PG or TV14. Wrestling, just like actual sports, is the kind of thing you'd take your kids to. And in essence, you'd be cheering along with them as this woman is thrown through a table. Guess what the kids are blissfully unaware of that we know well about. Kayfabe. We know its an act. They dont. And neither do must non-wrestling fans who are ignorant to its inner workings. You can say its accepted behavior all day long. But it doesn't change the negative teachings behind it.
I get that its a twisted world. I'm all for equal treatment and freedom of expression. But I don't like pissing on other people's genuinely well explained morals to get a sick laugh like you, you piece of shit.
People who complain about "Political Correctness" are usually ******s, or racist old white men.
And those same 1,200 fans would be disgusted if Bully Ray shot on Dixie and started beating her up forreal. You have to know that.
By the way, I'm offended you're rocking an avatar of a guy who has been arrested for Driving Under the Influence. Do you know how many people die daily due to morons driving while under the influence of alcohol/marijuana? I guess you advocate that sort of behavior, huh, you piece of garbage? Change it now, or be a scumbag who supports people who drive while intoxicated.
Frankly, I want a Zeb Colter avatar, but we don't have one. So yeah, Swagger it is.
So, yeah, don't get your point here.
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