Impact Support Club House

[Con T.]

No. It propagates the culture that says evil people are punished for their crimes.

Dixie being a heel doesn't mean a man has to assault her. There's a hundred ways you can book her getting her comeuppance. None of which involves assault.

Or Option C (see what I did there?): Fans who like going along with a story and seeing the payoff for it and don't apply it to real life because it's fiction.

Yes, because this angle has been so magnificent, it needed the payoff.

Haven't you been one of the biggest critics of this whole angle, anyway?

been lightened up.

Guess we're gonna find out if TNA gets it's TV Contract extended. Which hasn't happened yet, mind you.

....huh? You think women getting beaten up was the reason ECW went off TV?

I think it played a big part in no one wanting to pick up ECW. Hell, TNN barely wanted anything to do with them, by the time their contract was up. It wasn't a viable show to be on USA, or really any other station at the time.

Or they're like you and use a catchall answer to a question without thinking for themselves.

Yes, I'm the one not thinking critical about this angle.

You're really starting to sound like JGKY. It doesn't suit you, in the slightest.

 

[klunderbunker]

Dixie being a heel doesn't mean a man has to assault her. There's a hundred ways you can book her getting her comeuppance. None of which involves assault.

You could say exactly the same thing about every wrestling angle. If this was the rule, it wouldn't be wrestling. It would be a legal show.

Yes, because this angle has been so magnificent, it needed the payoff.

Haven't you been one of the biggest critics of this whole angle, anyway?

Yes, because Dixie is a horrible actress. If she has to be punched in the face by an army of kangaroos (who all have penises) to get her off my TV, so be it. This was the only logical place the story would go and amazingly enough, after seeing the segment, I still have about the same stance on violence against women as I always have.

Guess we're gonna find out if TNA gets it's TV Contract extended. Which hasn't happened yet, mind you.

Gee thanks for pointing that out. I'm sure TNA ran the whole angle with Spike executives in the house not knowing if it could sink their whole company.

I think it played a big part in no one wanting to pick up ECW. Hell, TNN barely wanted anything to do with them, by the time their contract was up. It wasn't a viable show to be on USA, or really any other station at the time.

And if you blame that on one idea, I'd advise you to leave the history to me.

Yes, I'm the one not thinking critical about this angle.

You're really starting to sound like JGKY. It doesn't suit you, in the slightest.

Throwing names around of people that I'm thinking like really doesn't change anything.

You acting like this is some taboo subject that is going to make TNA look like they're evil neanderthals is showing that you're not thinking this through. Dixie is a villain. A villain got punished. The fact that she has breasts shouldn't make a difference.

 

[Vega]

Why should she be treated differently for being a woman? Spud is portrayed almost just as weak and corrupt and got his ass beaten for it many times as well. If we make it a problem, it's a general problem of wrestling, not a sexist problem. Bischoff went into a dumpster like Dixie went through a table, and not having a dick doesn't make it an issue.

See, I can feel a problem if there was a kiss involved, as that represents and emphasizes male dominance, but going through a table is the evil boss getting his comeuppance and nothing more.

 

[klunderbunker]

Why should she be treated differently for being a woman? Spud is portrayed almost just as weak and corrupt and got his ass beaten for it many times as well. If we make it a problem, it's a general problem of wrestling, not a sexist problem. Bischoff went into a dumpster like Dixie went through a table, and not having a dick doesn't make it an issue.

See, I can feel a problem if there was a kiss involved, as that represents and emphasizes male dominance, but going through a table is the evil boss getting his comeuppance and nothing more.

I can see that on the kiss, but comparing it to gang rape like it was earlier is where Zeus lost me.

 

[Con T.]

I'll just go ahead and say it again:

Tell me if I'm missing something about this angle;


1) You're meant to cheer for it. They intend the audience to endorse this.

2) The woman is helplessly surrounded by a mob, forced upon against her will (the kiss) and then incapacitated.

And remember, you're supposed to want this to happen and cheer for it.

3) There is a live audience of people who are not characters in the performance all cheering these actions. And yes, I get it, KB, you're going to argue that they like storyline progression. These are TNA fans... You're giving them way too much credit, to try and make your point.

Imagine there was a TV show where a helpless woman was chased by a mob, caught, molested, and then injured. There is probably a scene like this that exists, but it's escaping me.

Now imagine that the point of this scene is not that the perpetrators are terrible, horrible people, but heroes. Not only are they heroes, this act is meant to be viewed as heroic.

Now, add to that a live audience of young men watching this happen and cheering for it.

To turn a man physically attacking a woman into a babyface spot, no matter how horrible of a person the female character has been first and no matter whether this is the intention or not, perpetuates a culture of acceptable violence against women and is, frankly, disgusting.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'll just go ahead and say it again:

Tell me if I'm missing something about this angle;


1) You're meant to cheer for it. They intend the audience to endorse this.

Standard good over evil.

2) The woman is helplessly surrounded by a mob, forced upon against her will (the kiss) and then incapacitated.

Like many, many villains before her.

And remember, you're supposed to want this to happen and cheer for it.

I'll certainly smile.

3) There is a live audience of people who are not characters in the performance all cheering these actions. And yes, I get it, KB, you're going to argue that they like storyline progression. These are TNA fans... You're giving them way too much credit, to try and make your point.

Oh no. They're enjoying someone they don't like getting what's been coming to her for years. WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END???

Imagine there was a TV show where a helpless woman was chased by a mob, caught, molested, and then injured. There is probably a scene like this that exists, but it's escaping me.

And you've lost me again.

Now imagine that the point of this scene is not that the perpetrators are terrible, horrible people, but heroes. Not only are they heroes, this act is meant to be viewed as heroic.

Well, is the person this is happening to innocent? Or has she been using her power to torment various other people and make their lives miserable while sending her minions to harm them before hiding behind the fact that she's a woman to avoid being punished?

Now, add to that a live audience of young men watching this happen and cheering for it.

I have, and it's still hypocritical.

To turn a man physically attacking a woman into a babyface spot, no matter how horrible of a person the female character has been first and no matter whether this is the intention or not, perpetuates a culture of acceptable violence against women and is, frankly, disgusting.

I can feel the red rep coming for this one: there are occasions where violence against women is the right course of action.

 

[jmt225]

I'll just go ahead and say it again:

Tell me if I'm missing something about this angle;


1) You're meant to cheer for it. They intend the audience to endorse this.

2) The woman is helplessly surrounded by a mob, forced upon against her will (the kiss) and then incapacitated.

And remember, you're supposed to want this to happen and cheer for it.

3) There is a live audience of people who are not characters in the performance all cheering these actions. And yes, I get it, KB, you're going to argue that they like storyline progression. These are TNA fans... You're giving them way too much credit, to try and make your point.

Imagine there was a TV show where a helpless woman was chased by a mob, caught, molested, and then injured. There is probably a scene like this that exists, but it's escaping me.

Now imagine that the point of this scene is not that the perpetrators are terrible, horrible people, but heroes. Not only are they heroes, this act is meant to be viewed as heroic.

Now, add to that a live audience of young men watching this happen and cheering for it.

To turn a man physically attacking a woman into a babyface spot, no matter how horrible of a person the female character has been first and no matter whether this is the intention or not, perpetuates a culture of acceptable violence against women and is, frankly, disgusting.

.............................

You do realize that this was most likely Dixie Carter's idea, right?

 

[Con T.]

I can feel the red rep coming for this one: there are occasions where violence against women is the right course of action.

I don't care about red rep. Like, really, if that what you think my immediate reaction is to that, then sure. Great.

But, since we're aiming for red rep here.... Fuck. You. You know for a fact I work with women that come from abusive homes. I have no problem sharing that, I'm very outspoken about that. And you want to tell me that line, a line that abusive partners have held over their significant other's heads to justify their actions. Do you know how many women I've worked with who blamed themselves, who internalized their guilt and took it out on themselves?

If you want to argue self defense, sure. What I saw on the clip wasn't self defense. Fuck you.

.............................

You do realize that this was most likely Dixie Carter's idea, right?

Is that really supposed to make this any better?

 

[jmt225]

Is that really supposed to make this any better?

Uhh... yes. You're acting like this truly happened against Dixie's will, when in fact she probably had a blast doing it.

And you do realize there are evil women in this World, correct? And if that something awful happened to those evil women, they actually deserve zero sympathy, right?

If Dixie Carter was a real person and she was deliberately fucking with the livelihoods of people and taking hits out of them, she would deserve to have her ass beat. Point, blank, period. And in the FICTIONAL, silly world of professional wrestling, it's allowed to happen. And yes, fans are allowed to cheer for it. It's no different than an evil lady comic book character trying to destroy the World and Superman beating her up, stopping her.

You're just the typical modern-day Feminist who gets fake outraged over every little thing, thinking you're actually making a difference in the World by bitching over the internet about it.

 

[Con T.]

Uhh... yes. You're acting like this truly happened against Dixie's will, when in fact she probably had a blast doing it.

And you do realize there are evil women in this World, correct? And if that something awful happened to those evil women, they actually deserve zero sympathy, right?

If Dixie Carter was a real person and she was deliberately fucking with the livelihoods of people and taking hits out of them, she would deserve to have her ass beat. Point, blank, period. And in the FICTIONAL, silly world of professional wrestling, it's allowed to happen. And yes, fans are allowed to cheer for it. It's no different than an evil lady comic book character trying to destroy the World and Superman beating her up, stopping her.

You're just the typical modern-day Feminist who gets fake outraged over every little thing, thinking you're actually making a difference in the World by bitching over the internet about it.

You forgot to leave your fedora on the stand, m'good sir.

Sure, I'm a feminist, and I'm liberal. And none of that is a bad thing at all.

 

[klunderbunker]

I don't care about red rep. Like, really, if that what you think my immediate reaction is to that, then sure. Great.

But, since we're aiming for red rep here.... Fuck. You. You know for a fact I work with women that come from abusive homes. I have no problem sharing that, I'm very outspoken about that. And you want to tell me that line, a line that abusive partners have held over their significant other's heads to justify their actions. Do you know how many women I've worked with who blamed themselves, who internalized their guilt and took it out on themselves?

If you want to argue self defense, sure. What I saw on the clip wasn't self defense. Fuck you.

Of course in self defense you nitwit. How evil do you think I am?

Also I didn't know that. That's rather cool.

 

[Con T.]

Of course in self defense you nitwit. How evil do you think I am?

Also I didn't know that. That's rather cool.

Huh; could have sworn I told you that in confidence? Maybe Jglass?

In which case, eh, sorry about the fuck you. Thought you knew that about me and was sort of using a trigger of mine.

Though, and I do contend this; I don't see a damn bit of self defense there.

 

[Dirk]

Haiku... I understand that it's an issue for you personally and that's fine, but don't go ahead and say "fuck TNA and its fans". I really take exception to that.

I wouldn't agree with the kiss part and I certainly wouldn't think a middle-aged lady like Dixie (who I have a lot of love and respect for, despite the odd balls-up) should be going through a table... were it not for the fact that it was planned and prepared.

I get what you're saying about it being a face spot and that they want the fans to cheer for it. I agree, it's not something to be cheered, but WWE fans have cheered things on par with it and worse.

I'm going to pop for it regardless, but not the reason you'd expect from a "knuckle-dragging moron" - the same reason I marked out when Vince got F-5'ed: Dixie doesn't have to do this, but she does it anyway. At her age, that's damn remarkable.

 

[klunderbunker]

If you did I don't remember it.

In real life of course I wouldn't condone what happened to Dixie. In wrestling though? Pass the kettle corn.

 

[Vega]

We're running in circles, but I still don't see how her being a woman is an issue here (other than the kiss which I haven't read about so far). Violence on men is inherently as bad as violence on women. The difference in practice is that women are - on average - physically weaker than men and therefore more often become victims.

So the more general point that wrestling "perpetuates a culture of acceptable violence" might be true and worth a discussion. And I can see an issue with violence against unconsenting people - or any act of self justice for that matter - portrayed as a valid method of resolution. This would be a problem with Dixie, Bischoff, DX dropping shit on the McMahons and every other act of vigilantism.

If I was a booker I'd probably book it differently, but I don't see this as a huge issue.

 

[Con T.]

I get what you're saying about it being a face spot and that they want the fans to cheer for it. I agree, it's not something to be cheered, but WWE fans have cheered things on par with it and worse.

I'll say it before, and I'll say it again; being a less shitty thing than other shitty things doesn't make you a good thing.

 

[Con T.]

So the more general point that wrestling "perpetuates a culture of acceptable violence" might be true and worth a discussion.

I've tried to have that discussion. Multiple times. Care for me to link the threads I've made, both in TNA and in the Symposium?

 

[Dirk]

I'll say it before, and I'll say it again; being a less shitty thing than other shitty things doesn't make you a good thing.

It's true.

I've said what I needed to say and you have the right to your opinion.

 

[Con T.]

It's true.

I've said what I needed to say and you have the right to your opinion.

And I get it; not all TNA fans are knuckle draggers.

We're not all JMT here

 

[jmt225]

We're not all JMT here

Mad because you couldn't argue against my points?

 

[Con T.]

Mad because you couldn't argue against my points?

Hey, give it time; plenty of writing to be done.

 

[jmt225]

Hey, give it time; plenty of writing to be done.

Looking forward to it.

 

[GI Cake]

You forgot to leave your fedora on the stand, m'good sir.

Sure, I'm a feminist, and I'm liberal. And none of that is a bad thing at all.

Unless you're a liberal feminist. Than you're in trouble you god hatin', welfare queen.

 

[Gelgarin]

I'm almost entirely on DDO's side and just wrote 2000 words to that effect, only to have my wanker mouse delete it.

Cliff notes:

1) Violence against women is wrong
2) Violence against helpless old men is also wrong
3) Wrestling occupies a unique niche in this respect because of the obviously fake nature of the broadcast
4) Someone not liking violence or sexual assault against women is still totally right to do so, and shouldn't be told they're wrong for disliking such a thing.
5) KB should be the last person in the world to bring out a 'don't like it, don't watch' argument.

 

[Vega]

I've tried to have that discussion. Multiple times. Care for me to link the threads I've made, both in TNA and in the Symposium?

Sure, why not. But I'll reply tomorrow at the earliest.