Immortals, Icons, Legends.

[Monkey_Mania]

These words have been tossed around alot lately. But what do they really mean? Every one has their own theories. I have my own theories that I will put in my post here.

Immortals - What is it. How do you consider someone being Immortal? Who would you put in such a category? Why are they in here? I think it is basically when someone is "Often Imitated, Never Duplicated."

Hulk Hogan - The obvious first choice when it comes to this category. He will always be "The Man." He was the first household wrestling name that I can ever remember. The top draw for whatever promotion he came to. He took wrestling to the mainstream. That and the fact that even 50 years from now wrestling fans will still be talking about him.

Ric Flair - Another one that has had such an impact in the business. Numerous classic encounters with superstars from all over. The one guy other than Hogan that people will mention when they are asked why they got into the business. Just as there will be another Hulk Hogan, there will never be another Ric Flair.

Icons - People who have made such an impact on the business and have paved the way for others to compete. These people are so lose to reaching Immortal status but were just a step behind the others.

Shawn Michaels/Sting - I put these two together as to me they are pretty much one in the same. Even though I prefer Sting. There careers went pretty much down the same path. Both were the face of each others respective companies for a long time, and both were absolute geniuses inside the ring and captivated an audience. But neither reached the level that they should have.

Bret Hart - Same thing with Sting/Shawn except I believe he wouldve reached immortal status if he hadnt been taken out because of an Injury. His ring work was so crisp and so clean Add in the fact that he could draw and he was amazing. Its really too bad he was taken out of the business a little early.

Legends - The guys that will be remembered for their impact but have had a few bumps in the road getting there. Solid in ring work but have also had a cloudy overview on their career.

Triple H - No one can deny that this guy is a legend. But he stands in a pile of his own defeat sometimes. He's a very solid worker, but because of all his controversies. He will be remembered for that and that alone pretty much. Its a shame too.

Scott Hall - This guy really had it all. The look, the ring skills, promo skills. But he let it all fade away. To many problems outside of the ring and also inside of it. The guy was a classic for a lot of his career but just went down the wrong path.

Now I hope what I have just said makes sense. I think this could generate some pretty good discussions. So what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Big Fella]

Essentially what you are trying to do is to create tiers of greatness.

I pretty much agree with your tiers as well. Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan are legends, icons, or any other name you would want to assign to them. They will go down in the annals of professional wrestling as all time greats. 100 years from now they'll be among the names from the 1900s that you still hear. The way I can mention Frank Gotch, people in the very distant future will be able to talk about these two.

The next category you mentioned included Shawn Michaels, Sting, and Bret Hart. I would throw guys like Dusty Rhodes, Randy Savage, Terry Funk, Stone Cold, Rock, and guys that were on top for many years.

Your third category confuses me. Triple H IMO should be in the 2nd tier, and as much as I love Scott Hall doesn't quite belong in the 3rd. One guy has held the belt 10+ times, one has never held a major promotions top belt.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

The reason Triple H is in the third tier is because he is clouded by way too much controversy. So is Shawn Michales but he keeps impressing even at his age. Triple H has grown stagnant. He is my second favorite wrestler only behind Sting, but he's not as impressing as he used to be. His pedigree's dont get as much jumpo anymore. His promo's are constantly the same. Whereas Shawn still gets as much extension on the SCM and the same amount of air time on the elbow drop from the top. Thats why he is in the third tier. I hope that makes sense. Triple H's presence will never be forgotten though.

Scott Hall is a legend. There is no doubt about it. He may never have held the top title, but then again neither did Ted Dibiase, Or Curt Hennig in the WWE. Does that knock them out of legendary status. I don't think so. As a matter of fact it adds to all these guys abilities that they are consider legends because of that fact.

I also agree with your other choices too. I left them out so people could discuss them as well.

 

[simpsons_fanatic742]

Immortals:
Hulk Hogan - Bar none, the most famous, most recognizable, and the most over guy in wrestling history. Everybody was a Hulkamaniac and even when he turned heel, he created a stable that everyone wanted to be a part of and wanted to cheer for, the NWO. His is the first name you think of when you say wrestling.

The Undertaker - He is definitely on my list for Immortals. This man has given chilling promos, has had the same gimmick for almost forever and still gets HUGE pops for what he does. He is the greatest big man in wrestling history and can work a great match with almost anyone. Fans love this guy and they mark out everytime the lights go out and the oh-so-familiar bell tolls.

Icons:
Shawn Michaels - Yes he is an Icon. He has a great following of fans, can put a 5 star match on every time he's in the ring and can cut promos very well also. He has been the face of WWF/WWE for almost his whole career and helped carry the company through it's toughest times.

Bret Hart - Definitely an Icon, especially in Canada where he could probably be on the Immortal list that's how much he is worshipped here. He put on amazing matches and great promos and could draw tremendous pops and insane heat. A bad ending with the WWF/WWE put a mark on his resume, but it doesn't change what he did for the sport.

Ric Flair - I don't see alot in him like alot of other people do so I don't consider him Immortal, but I'm not stupid enough to say he's not a legend. He's one of the greatest promo men in the business and put on great matches even some at his old age. He was also the face of WCW for a long time and was part of many memorable fueds.

Legends:
Stone Cold Steve Austin - He was wrestling in the 90s and led the WWF/WWE through probably the greatest era in the Attitude era. He brought a new look for wrestling and attracted alot of new and different fans. He was amazingly over with the crowd and still get the same reaction everytime you hear that glass break.

The Rock - Same as Austin in he carried the WWF/WWE through the Attitude era. He was probably the greatest promo man ever and made catchphrases that people mark out too even now. Although he's gone from wrestling, whenever he makes a rare appearance, the fans go absolutely crazy.

I'm sure there are more to this list, but these are the big names I think of. Many notables though.

 

[Davi323]

Immortals: There are only 3 names that can ever go in this catagory, 3 names that simply go hand in hand with Pro Wrestling, and will for all-time. Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, and Andre the Giant.

Icons: In this group, I would put men such as Randy Savage, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker.

Legends: Sting, Bret Hart, Dusty Rhodes. I guess I just don't have quite the same love for Sting or Bret Hart as others do, to me, while they were really good wrestlers, with long and storied careers, neither could carry a PPV, in my mind. I never bought into Bret Hart's ego, he isn't the best there was, isn't the best there is, and won't be the best there ever will be. He was VERY GOOD...but, he wasn't quite as great as he thinks he is. As far as Sting goes, like Hart, he was very good...but, he never achieved that otherworldly status that others have, at least to me. I like Sting, but, I just can't put him in the same category as some of the other all time greats.

 

[HBKRULES89]

In my opinion the way wrestling works is a certain era is usually dominated by one maybe two superstars. In WWE the decades are and were certainly dominated by one or two superstars. Bruno Samartino obviously dominated the early years. The 80s by Hogan of course. In close second would be the other half of the "Mega Powers" Randy Savage. The 90s should have been dominated by the legendary Bret Hart but a young brash and stubborn kid came along and completely took Hart's Thunder - he is the greatest of all time, HE IS SHAWN MICHAELS. Many can argue that Stone Cold was 2nd in performance in WWF in the 90s. The Rock was never quite as popular as SCSA. The Rokc could have been so much better. He could have been where HHH is today. HHH is truly the WWE superstar of the decade with the "i only know 5 moves" John Cena 2nd. So whats in my point in all of this? Shawn Michaels is truly one of the if not the greatest WWWF/WWF/WWE SUPERSTAR EVER! No one has ever done what he has done. He had one of the greatest careers pre the back injury, but, since comming back he has only enhanced his legacy and brought his passion of the bussiness and amazing ability to a new generation of fans. I have never ever seen a better all around performer than him. He truly is the Icon, The Main Event, Mr. Wrestlemania, the Heartbreak kid, and the show stopper.

 

[PWAQfan]

i shall do one of these but in more of an omage to Hardcore wrestling.

Immortals: Terry Funk & Mick Foley: They both put hardcore wrestling on the big stages all over the world, the big screens of cable-tv via the WWE, they both were renowned for brining and defining Deathmatch wrestling in Japan. These guys have also had good success everywhere they went, with great matches under their belt...also they could actually wrestling rather well.

Icons.
Now this is going to be a bit of a wierd one.
Masato Tanaka: Probably one of the best all round wrestlers to ever grace professional wrestling, he had alot of psychology and feel to his deathmatches, whilst still keeping them in most ways a wrestling match, and boy can he wrestle. One of the reasons that Japanese hardcore wrestling had a boom in the 90's.
and now, his counterpart.
Mike Awesome: the guy has been everywhere, done it all. Pissed off a whole entire company by going to WCW with its title, then going back to work a few shows in between. he's been to Japan as a mainstay in a fair few companys and his international fued with Masato Tanaka is world fucking renowned.

Legends:
Mr Pogo: Plain and simple the guy is hardcore wrestling, he's downright vile and vicious, he will tear you to fucking pieces and take it all the same and just keep on giving it to you.

Mad Man Pondo: He's another one whos just taking everything to the limit, also he is highly responsible for bridging alot of Japanese guys with trips to the US and alot of US guys with trips to Japan, wether they be deathmatch or not.

Now for a special mention...
Drake Younger: he's a rising upstart, but he's pretty much made a phenomenal impact, he can wrestle just about any style, he's not perfect but he has ultimate heart, he will take sick bumps but will go out of his way to prove that he can still hold his own. One of the few true Hybrid wrestlers who is rapidly doing something to make a name.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

While I don't have much to say about "Immortals" other than Highlander ruled. And the term Legend is currently being connected to guys like William Perry and Johnny Rodz.. the fact remains the same..

Icons: An Icon doesn't have to be a Legend, nor an Immortal. An Icon is someone who is viewed by the Wrestling population as famous and heard around the wrestling Universe for someone who's either mastered his craft, or become very famous for specific things.

Rowdy Roddy Piper: Piper was truly the first person to adapt to the term "Icon." But would he fall into that catagory, over being a Legend? Roddy Piper never won any World Heavyweight Championship. He was Intercontinental Champion for a brief time, but it was only more of a segway to get the title back to Bret. So could he be seen as any type of great Champion? Probably not.

However Roddy's skills and Iconic status didn't come from what he did in the ring, so much as what he did out of it. Piper's Pit was what made Roddy famous, what made him a great. That talk show was what allowed Piper to become a true Icon in the business, and to this day they still try running second-rate talk shows to try and duplicate the Pit's success.

Again, while many can actually lay claim to being an Icon.. its still not just a word that can be thrown around like "Legend" is currently being used. Icon doesn't get used a lot, because people don't see it as powerful as the term Legend, however in my mind thats what makes the term "Icon" an even greater word.. because it doesn't get slapped on any number of random people.

 

[Agrex]

There is no right or wrong answer here, it's all a matter of opinions.

Immortal: In my opinion, this is a wrestler who not only stands out in the world of wrestling, but in the world itself. This is a wrestler who is known world-wide for his accomplishments in wrestling. He has made himself a household name, and made wrestling bigger than it was. This is a wrestler who will never be forgotten in the world of entertainment. An example of an immortal is.....

Hulk Hogan - No one can disagree that Hogan didn't change the world of wrestling. Hogan in the 80's brought wrestling into the mainstream he made it popular. He is known all over the world as a wrestler, and a hero to many. He fits all of the criteria of what I think an immortal is.

Icon: In my opinion, this is a wrestler who is known throughout the wrestling world. This is a wrestler who is respected in the world of wrestling for his many accomplishments. He is looked up to, and is a wrestler who will never be forgotten. An example of an icon is.....

Ric Flair - Ric has had one of the illustrious careers in wrestling’s history. He is an idol to very many wrestlers. Throughout his 36 years in the ring he has accomplished so much. And will never be forgotten in the wrestling world. He fits all the criteria of what I think an icon is.

Legend: In my opinion, this is a wrestler who has accomplished a lot in the world of wrestler. He has had classic matches, gimmicks, and has had a successful career. An example of a legend is.....

The Undertaker - The Undertaker has one of the most interesting gimmicks in the history of wrestling. He has put on classic matches, and has had a very successful career. He is undefeated at 'Mania, and is a well respected wrestler. He fits all the criteria of what I think a legend is.

 

[klemsin66]

How do you put Scott Hall as a legend and then leave out all the greats. I agree with the Scott Hall a lil bit...but wheres Austin, Rock, Undertaker, how bout all the fucking real heros like RVD SANDMAN SABU FOLEY FUNK ...come on now ...

 

[PWAQfan]

I get what your saying Klemsin66 but Sandman became washed up, fat and drunk after ECW pretty much, everybody regards him now as the drunk who fell asleep on his feet at a show. He ruined his legacy just like Ultimate Warrior.

But if you look above i do have Foley and Funk in mine.

 

[wetland]

Immortal

Hulk Hogan
The obvious choice but this guy was the biggest draw ever, he was wrestling in the 80s, he bought wrestling to the common person during the 80s, the people who didn't like wrestling started to like wrestling. So many amazing moments, when he slammed Andre, vs Randy Savage at wrestlemania 5, when he joined the NWO. This guy has done it all in the 2 biggest wrestling companies ever.

Ric Flair
Another huge contribution made to wrestling that cannot be ignored. This guy practically was the NWA during the 80s and was the old WCW for a lot of the 90s until a certain 'real American' came along anyway. He had less success in WWE, but the sendoff he got for me anyway will never be forgotten, oh and he formed perhaps the best stable ever, The 4 horsemen.

The Undertaker
The guy is the personification of loyalty and hard work in wrestling. And no-one gets bored of him. He has consistently performed at an amazing level, has a career spanning over 20 years, including feuds with Kane, The Rock, Mankind, Hulk Hogan, Triple H, Stone Cold, Kevin Nash, Batista, John Cena and the Brooklyn Brawler (lol). But on the serious side look at the names and you realise the Undertaker is perhaps the best gimmick and wrestler ever.

Icons

Sting
This guy was so loyal to WCW back in the day. He's had feuds with the Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Brett Hart, Ric Flair etc. This guy was a great worker and always got the crowd going, especially with his 'No talking gimmick'

Stone Cold Steve Austin
What? What? Despite inventing perhaps the most annoying catchphrase ever that ruined perhaps some of the best promos ever and will continue to do so for years without this gut we may be talking about some sort of WCW forum. Lets face it. This guy was the WWF in the late 90s, he main evented, wrestlemania 14,15,17, and had the perhaps the best ever wrestlemania match at wrestlemania 13. With Brett Hitman Hart

The Rock
Do you smell it??? The millions and millions...... Ok the only i smell currently is a hollywood sell out. However the contribution this guy made to the WWE cannot be ignored, this guy was the total package. He could wrestle (well enough to main event), he could sell, and was perhaps the best person on the mike ever. He appealed to young and old fans. He kept the WWF ticking along nicely in 2000 whilst Steve Austin had a bit of neck surgery thanks to Owen Hart (rip).

Shawn Michaels
Who is the showstopper? Who is the main event? Whos done it all? Old HBK himself is an icon, was in the first ever Hell in a Cell and Ladder matches, was the first ever grand slam winner, was a bit of a hit with the ladies and has had a 25 year career. Oh and wasn't there that stable he founded in 1997, oh yea i recall, SUCK IT!.

Mick Foley
Deffinately my favourite wrestler ever! Without a doubt. Period. In the words of Jerry the King lawler "this guy is indestructible." Whether it was dude love (the worst of the three) Mankind, or Cactus Jack (my favourite) This guy was big in ECW, WCW AND WWE. The perfect guy to bring hardcore to the WWE IMO. He helped adapt the ECW hardcore to a mainstream audience. So many amazing performances, against Sabu many times in ECW, The Undertaker at KOTR 1998, against Triple H and NWO 2000 and RR 2000. And as the commissioner, making the sadistic 6 man Hell in Cell and the TLC match.

Legends
Macho Man Randy Savage
Oahhhh yeahhh! This guy is actually perhaps one of my personal favourites of all time. A legend in WCW and WWF. Had feuds with Nash, Goldberg, Hogan, Flair, Sting and had in my opinion the best match ever, with Ricky the Dragon steamboat at wrestlemania 3.

Brett Hart
The only thing not putting this guy into the icons part is a certain incident in montreal canada if you know what i mean, well his reaction to it, then him jumping ship and moaning about it for countless years. had a near 20 year career and had a magnificant run in one of the best tagteams ever, The Heart foundation.

Terry Funk
The funker, really a more redneck less chunky Mick Foley, what a legend this guy was. Practically invented hardcore wressling. However i confess i don't know much about his wrestling exploits much before 1996, there i cannot put him any higher. Sorry Terry!

 

[grifdog44]

Things seem to get a little complicated on this post. A lot of people are short-sighted with the WWF and that's all! I'm glad I'm an 80's baby and see things from another perspective:

Immortal:
Nature Boy Ric Flair: Hold your breath, some of you. I put him above Hulk Hogan because he was Stylin and Profilin before 1984, the birth of the Mania. He would be in different promotions takin anybody and everybody to school. Hell, he would be in Japan one week and defending against Kerry Von Erich three weeks later. The primary reason why almost everyone put Hogan above him is because of the cartoons of the WWF and how people bought into it. NWA made it appear almost real and other place like Mid-South, Georgia, Florida, Memphis "took it there."

Hulk Hogan - Definitely a household name and gave the WWF the edge they needed to go national and worldwide. If they met in 1987, who would win, Nature Boy or Hogan? The Nature Boy, 9 times out of 10. Even though Hogan took Wrestling into the mainstream, as I have grown older I have grown to dislike him more even in the ring than I do for his fiascos outside the ring. There will never be another Hogan but diamonds are forever and so is the Nature Boy!

Icons:
Sting is great and never gets the respect he deserves because of not always seeking the limelight. HBK is an icon for always delivering despite his injuries or his opponents lack of skill. The Hitman could have been immortal if his career was extended a few years and the Montreal Screwjob. Rowdy Piper because he showed what a heel should be and could be a face that everyone loves two months later. The Undertaker because of the length of his career and he would be immortal if he wrestles five more years. "Superstar" Billy Graham because he was influenced so many careers including Hogan, the "Lame" Game, Scott Steiner, Dusty Rhodes, Jesse Ventura, etc.

Legends:
Debatable here because people would say Stone Cold and some would say Icon or Immortal. In this category, Dusty Rhodes, Road Warriors, Andre the Giant, and othe people. Very lengthy, I know but I feel the Roick doesn't belong. The adjective of lengendary is associated with him but outside his promos and appealing looks, what did he have? His move set was extremely limited and until he got a true personality, he was disliked.

What do you think?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I dont really think these are tiers, so much as classifications

Immortal

One and Only. Hulk Hogan. Hulkamania will truly never die. He could come rollin out tonight at NOC, win the belt, and itd be over as shit. People will know and love him for as long as video footage is around, for as long as the stories can be told.

Icon

What is the definition of Icon?? Something that can be visually connected to something bigger, a representation if you will. Id say my two icons for Pro Wrestling would be Stone Cold Steve Austin, and Andre the Giant. That basically covers the spectrum from young to old, if people see either of those two guys, they think "pro wrestling". Obviously Hulk Hogan would rule this category as well, but I thought I would throw some other names out as well

Legend

The Undertaker and Bret HArt. Definately. both guys exploits are spoken of with reverence and respect. They are both generally spoken of with nothing but adolation, and are two storied characters. The legend of Hulkamania is obviously up there as well. but as I said, I want to throw other names out there.

I could throw tons of names out there, especially in the icon section. Randy Savage and Ultimate Warrior are two other obvious ones. And Hulk Hogan is tops in all catergories.