If only ONE of them makes it: Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles

[Uncle Sam]

An argument could be made that both these two have made it. In fact, the most sensible argument would suggest that Joe has "made it" further than AJ. So let's just ask this question: who will make it the furthest?

I'm likely to switch sides as everyone pours to AJ's defense; I'm a big fan of playing devil's advocate. I advocate the devil. For now though, the obvious answer is AJ.

He's the most athletic wrestler in TNA today. Actually, "athletic" may be a bit misleading. He's the most agile. Well, that's not strictly true. OK, he's the best spot monkey you'll ever lay your fair eyes on. That seems to work the best. There's a reason he's called "the human highlight reel" because he's the best in the business at falling off tall things and making it look impressive. And I'm even including Jeff Hardy in that. I presume his transitions between spots are good too; otherwise why would Slyfox like him? His rugged good looks? Well, maybe...

Of course, you could argue that Joe is equally impressive when it comes to athleticism, the second most agile big man next to the Tex Mex T-Rex, Hernandez. He might not be performing somersaults night in, night out, but his high kicks and ability to jump over semi-tall objects onto people is quite impressive.

Joe's the more versatile of the two, as well. Whereas AJ has a strict high-flying style, which there's nothing wrong with and so much right with, Joe dips into submissions, strikes, grappling, brawling, slamming and diving about like a madman. It's why I maintain that he's fucking fun to watch. Not that AJ isn't of course.

But AJ has something that Joe hasn't: clear marketability. I maintain that Joe can be marketed well, really well - TNA just aren't up to it. But it's almost impossible to fuck up AJ's marketing. Not only is he the most over person in the entire roster and the only "TNA original" that has the definite potential to draw a wider audience, but it's just impossible to not market someone that bleeds charisma, that has such an entertaining, smooth style and is, well, that's all I got. But those two things are fucking important.

If either is going to make it in, or out of TNA, the likelihood is it's AJ.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Okay, beside the fact that I'm shocked NOONE has said a word in this thread (besides you, Sam) I'm utterly shocked that you'd begin your thread with claiming some could claim Joe has already "made it". The only thing he's "made" in recent memory, was likely a ham sandwich.

I stand completely, biasedly and unwilling to move.. in A.J. Styles corner on this affair. Unlike Roode & Storm, Joe has zero capabilities to me, in the effect that I'd ever want him on any show that I could have any type of say over. Will I watch Joe? Only if I must. Is he talented? Yes. Does that mean I have to like him? Fuck no.

You hit the nail directly on it's head. A.J. Styles, while his size may not be what most could want in an overall Athlete in Professional Wrestling, fact is Joe's "size" is even far worse off. Joe shocks a lot of people, because they don't expect someone that looks that "out of shape" to even move like he does. But that doesn't mean he deserves a fricken award for it. Rikishi &/or Umaga = Joe, in practically every way possible. The only thing they have, that Joe doesn't.. is the one thing that will win Styles this match-up.. Charisma, and personality.

Samoa Joe is about as plain as vanilla ice cream, and about as boring as watching paint dry. Joe made it to the top in T.N.A., not because he deserved it, but instead because the fans randomly cheered loud for him. (they cheer loud for Eric Young and Shark boy too, do they deserve Heavyweight titles?) The point.. T.N.A. fans just like to cheer for random shit, be it worthy or not.

A.J. Styles is the type of individual who could leave T.N.A. today, and become a top Heavyweight wrestler in the W.W.E., on Raw. His size is comparable to Shawn Michaels, and his talent level vastly goes beyond the Heartbreak Kid. His Charisma and personality are through the roof, and he bleeds this business.

Joe may very well want to bleed this business, and he may want to have the charisma and personality that would lead him to great things.. but he just doesn't, and likely never will have. Joe doesn't strike me as the type of person that would be any source of fun to hang around. Styles would be a center piece for any company.. Joe would be a leg that holds it up.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Okay, beside the fact that I'm shocked NOONE has said a word in this thread (besides you, Sam) I'm utterly shocked that you'd begin your thread with claiming some could claim Joe has already "made it". The only thing he's "made" in recent memory, was likely a ham sandwich.

A ham sandwich isn't that fattening, Will. Is it? I dunno, you could have been more creative. However, I will say that he's a better champion than Sting has ever been. His one title reign was also more meaningful than any of AJ's three - y'know, back when TNA was still very much a glorified indie.

I stand completely, biasedly and unwilling to move.. in A.J. Styles corner on this affair. Unlike Roode & Storm, Joe has zero capabilities to me, in the effect that I'd ever want him on any show that I could have any type of say over.

Hey, he's big in the indies man. I'd book him.

Is he talented? Yes.

Huh. Did not expect that.

Does that mean I have to like him? Fuck no.

This I certainly did expect.

Rikishi &/or Umaga = Joe, in practically every way possible.

They're overweight and Samoan, sure. However, even with little to no charisma, Joe looks like The Rock in comparison to these two. He's also got a much more unorthodox style. Whereas the other two are very much about hitting their opponents with their gigantic asses (lol), Joe has much more in the way of agility, as well as incorporating hard, Japanese-style strikes and chain submissions into his style.

The only thing they have, that Joe doesn't.. is the one thing that will win Styles this match-up.. Charisma, and personality.

Joe should have to wear a Hawaiian shirt and chew a Cuban cigar at all times. That'd sort him out.

Samoa Joe is about as plain as vanilla ice cream, and about as boring as watching paint dry. Joe made it to the top in T.N.A., not because he deserved it, but instead because the fans randomly cheered loud for him. (they cheer loud for Eric Young and Shark boy too, do they deserve Heavyweight titles?) The point.. T.N.A. fans just like to cheer for random shit, be it worthy or not.

You make a good point, and one that I point out a lot. TNA fans will cheer for pretty much anything. I can only assume that Joe was ahead in merch sales or something. That or he got more personalised chants than the other wrestlers. Personally, I don't think Joe is boring to watch. There's no one else like him, if I'm honest. Being different doesn't mean being good, but Joe's style makes him look legitimately dangerous - he does stuff which nobody else does, regardless of size, but doesn't make it look overly fake like others do.

A.J. Styles is the type of individual who could leave T.N.A. today, and become a top Heavyweight wrestler in the W.W.E., on Raw.

I honestly don't think he could. I don't think you'd find a writer willing to write a big storyline with him in. It may be a cliche but it seems true, WWE doesn't like what WWE didn't create. I think Joe would be a successful midcarder, TBH. I hear he's friends with Cena, as a matter of fact. I'm moderately sure that, though he may have some initial success, AJ would fade into obscurity. There's no way to be certain.

His size is comparable to Shawn Michaels, and his talent level vastly goes beyond the Heartbreak Kid.

Becca's gonna shit.

His Charisma and personality are through the roof, and he bleeds this business.

Pfft, he says his priority is his family. What a pussy.

Joe doesn't strike me as the type of person that would be any source of fun to hang around.

He seemed mildly funny in the shoot interviews he's done. Also, he likes videogames... but he's a cheat.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

A ham sandwich isn't that fattening, Will. Is it? I dunno, you could have been more creative. However, I will say that he's a better champion than Sting has ever been. His one title reign was also more meaningful than any of AJ's three - y'know, back when TNA was still very much a glorified indie.

I'm unsure if Joe's one reign would rival that of A.J.'s (any of them) on anything other than when they happened. If Style's had even 1 reign in today's T.N.A., he'd easily top Joe.

Styles' last reign was coming into the "Hey, we're legit" stages of T.N.A. and he lost in a King of the Mountain match.

But overall, Styles has had a more impressive list of defenses. He's defeated Jarrett & Raven, not to mention Abyss. All when they were at their top levels in T.N.A. and if I recall, I think he even defeated Sting way back then. (unsure on that though)

Joe had a hard time dealing with Booker T. and in the end, Booker was more over than Joe was.

Hey, he's big in the indies man. I'd book him.

Those are the same people who thought Punk was a great Champion on Raw. I don't tend to listen much to mindless rambling. Indy folk are like Carnies. They'll try to pitch you anything, but in the end it's ultimately a waste of time, money and it's complete shit.

Huh. Did not expect that.

Every now and then I throw out an occasional curve ball.

This I certainly did expect.

But mainly I like to stick to what works for me.

They're overweight and Samoan, sure. However, even with little to no charisma, Joe looks like The Rock in comparison to these two. He's also got a much more unorthodox style. Whereas the other two are very much about hitting their opponents with their gigantic asses (lol), Joe has much more in the way of agility, as well as incorporating hard, Japanese-style strikes and chain submissions into his style.

The one attribute I will give Samoa Joe, is that he's definately NOT what he appears to be. His style and abilities inside the ring are one of a kind. (for now, I'll say that) Albeit I'd say Mike Awesome, Vader and Bam Bam Bigelow were all similar to a degree in their era's to Joe as well. (they did things you wouldn't expect them too)

Joe's style is all that makes him go these days. Without his ability to do things you wouldn't expect, he'd be flat-out worthless.

And let's not discount A.J. for being able to shock you from time to time. The spot-fests are what they are, but this is the same guy who did deliver a Styles' Clash on Abyss, off the turnbuckles in a Lockdown match a few years back. You wouldn't normally expect a cruiserweight sized athlete to be capable of handling a "super-heavyweight" like that.

Joe should have to wear a Hawaiian shirt and chew a Cuban cigar at all times. That'd sort him out.

I wouldn't go that far. I think it's a credit to Joe's career that he hasn't had to stereo-type himself. (much) But he definately needs something, because the promos he cuts in T.N.A. (not youtube, or the indies) are plain and not very good.

I just once wanna see him say.. "I'll say what I have to.. through my wrestling." and that's it. It could work. Fuck all, give the man a manager, or a mouth piece. Maybe.

You make a good point, and one that I point out a lot. TNA fans will cheer for pretty much anything. I can only assume that Joe was ahead in merch sales or something. That or he got more personalised chants than the other wrestlers. Personally, I don't think Joe is boring to watch. There's no one else like him, if I'm honest. Being different doesn't mean being good, but Joe's style makes him look legitimately dangerous - he does stuff which nobody else does, regardless of size, but doesn't make it look overly fake like others do.

As I've said earlier, I give Joe credit for his style.. but at this point, he pretty much HAS to continue being original through his style, otherwise he's unemployed. Without shocking people by doing what they wouldn't expect, and adding multiple fighting styles to his moveset.. he's making sure he stays original to watch.

It'd be no different for Styles to continue spot-jumping every other show. Or making sure he hits at least 5 high-risk moves per match. But Styles can survive mildly off his promos, and charisma. Joe has none.

I do infact compare Joe to Mike Awesome. Difference is, I loved Mike Awesome.

I honestly don't think he could. I don't think you'd find a writer willing to write a big storyline with him in. It may be a cliche but it seems true, WWE doesn't like what WWE didn't create. I think Joe would be a successful midcarder, TBH. I hear he's friends with Cena, as a matter of fact. I'm moderately sure that, though he may have some initial success, AJ would fade into obscurity. There's no way to be certain.

I'd have to disagree. I could name a list of individuals the W.W.F/E. didn't create that they allowed to be Headliners in their show.

Rob Van Dam, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Ric Flair & Big Show are just a few. All of which were made famous in E.C.W. or W.C.W./N.W.A., but became a World Heavyweight Champion in the W.W.F/E.

I believe highly that A.J. Styles has become one part of the face that is T.N.A., that they'd do anything to make him shine even brighter in a W.W.E. ring. Of course they'd job him to Triple H. and then Shawn Michaels, but he'd become a Heavyweight Champion through time.

Becca's gonna shit.

If she eats regularly, I'd hope so. Otherwise that's a serious medical condition I'd tell her to get checked out.

Pfft, he says his priority is his family. What a pussy.

Agreed. Why enter into a business that pretty much requires you to be on the road over 300 days a year, if you aren't going to fully endulge in the lifestyle that involves hookers, crack and alcoholism.

He seemed mildly funny in the shoot interviews he's done. Also, he likes videogames... but he's a cheat.

I've heard Punk was moderately humourous as well.. I've yet to see it. I think indy folk just have weird imaginations.

 

[The Hiphopapotamus]

As a fan of Samoa Joe,I would personally want him as more of a furure to TNA,although just slightly more than the phenomenal one, and heres the following criteria that led to my decision:

1)He is probably the most unique wrestler between the two companies.You look and say "God he's a fat bastard,what ass move will he use" but then you see him using various styles.He can be a mat wrestler,able to go toe-to-toe with Angle on occasions; a physical, "mma" style fighter with those brutal and unbelievable kicks and strikes.He is also "decent" as a flying wrestler,(elbow suicida anyone).

2)Aj is probably the most talented wrestler there is and would be prefered by most observers to "sloppy joe".He defies belief with some of his manouveurs and isn't just another cruiserweight spot monkey.Oh no.He can wrestle with the best of them.

3)I know I am one of the few who like Joe but if you don't like his character charisma or style,fair enough.But if it's because he's fat,well let me tell you that you are probably insecure and have been fed this image of a wrestler who is perfect and now you have this tubby samoan who actually has ability and you're to afraid to give him a chance because,I don't know,you are afraid of anything different.Which is childish.And going by that you probably won't like AJ because of his size.
(By "you" I mean noone in particular")

So I f you ask me,they would both make it far,but if you asked who I would want,it's Joe,but if you ask who will,probably AJ.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'll take Styles. Joe has had some great moments in TNA, but Styles has had the awesome career. He has it all going for him. Looks great, good name, great in the ring, good nickname, the music, the resume, the age. What's missing? Not a damn thing. The southern accent is a nice touch too. It seperates him from the rest of the talkers in TNA. Joe, simply put, is fat. His look doesn't scream superstar to me. What he does in the ring does, but his look doesn't. AJ looks like a superstar. That accounts for a lot.

 

[powerade]

In the ring they are both very entertaining in their own styles (of course Joe needs to mix in a few salads)......

BUT.....I think they both lack a very important skill to ever become as big as you guys are talking....


mic skills.....
Joe is horrible on the mic and has no personality at all
AJ is okay on the mic but is also very bland

neither guy has enough to carry a title for a long period of time because of this....

I think Robert Roode and James Storm have better mid skill than Joe and AJ


you may or may not agree, but thats my opinion....

 

[makaay07]

Ok i had to give this alot of thought. My thought was how could anyone actually ask that question.

AJ is the one and only good reason to watch TNA (with the possible exception of velvet sky. For obvious reasons) AJ is the most exciting performer in TNA by a mile. And apart from Jericho IMO the most entertaining in ring performer in wrestling today. Styles may not be great on the mic but he is not terrible. And remember the greatest superstar ever to grace a wrestling ring Bret Hart also wasnt a great man on the mic.

Then we have Joe. Not a bad performer. But is it me or is he the most boring man ever to watch in a ring. Even when he does something that makes you go "Ok that was decent" its still boring. I hate seeing Joe appear on TNA television.

AJ is pure gold. This thread is stupid cause there is only one winner. And only one AJ Styles.