IC25's New Editorial - Hogan Says TNA is Gonna Start Shooting...

[IrishCanadian25]

For those who haven't heard or seen the link on Wrestlezone, Hulk Hogan is apparently warning people that TNA is 'ready to shoot.' Here's the link:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/hulk-hogan-claims-tna-is-going-to-start-shooting-soon-115443

We live in a TiVo / DVR world, folks. The best part about that is being able to fast forward just about anything. Tape a football game on a 10-minute delay and skip the commercials. Watch Charles Bronson's masterful performance in "Death Wish 3" in only 4-and-a-half minutes, skipping all the useless crap and watching only the quality wasting of punks. You get the idea.

If TNA is going to go to a shoot-style, then I'll officially drop my "give TNA the benefit of the doubt" stance and state, for the record, that they are WCW on fast-forward.

Going shoot style is an AWFUL idea. It worked for a cup of coffee in the Attitude Era, but save for guys like Shawn Michaels and Triple H breaking the 4th wall to make some inside jokes (usually about the McMahon family or HHH's and Steph's babies), shooting massacres the integrity of the business. To quote the film Halloween, 'everybody's entitled to one good scare.' Well, let's hope for the sake of the talent in the TNA locker room that a 'scare' is all Hogan is seeking, and that he isn't serious.

Shoot style with a divided locker room is a nuclear bomb ticking away. There are already concerns about politics. If talent is given free reign to go into buisness for themselves, then nobody will trust anyone else, and nobody will know which way is up. This is the same stuff that happened in WCW when they pressed the panic button, and it led to guys like Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Rey Mysterio, and Perry Saturn jumping ship to the WWF. While we're fast forwarding, why not just toss AJ Styles, Robert Roode, James Storm, Chris Sabin, and Alex Shelly on the WWE roster right away?

Hogan's faux tough guy twitter video reeks of panic. He just backed Kryptonite in the big race only to learn that Eddie Mush bet the horse too. "We're real, and we're going to get more real." This is professional wrestling - it was not built on being real, it was built on pretending to be real. I watch wrestling at age 29 to be entertained and to allow my willing suspension of disbelief take over and become interested in everything they give me, from the days of the Ultimate Warrior vomiting pea soup after being cursed by Papa Shango to anxiously awaiting what John Cena gets sick of first - Wade Barrett or the fans. Hogan's decision to further destroy the mystique of pro wrestling - the very mystique that once had an entire generation believing he was a real-life superhero - is nothing but frustration with the product he's trying to toy with not working. He's taken the creative cartridge out of the console and is blowing into the bottom of it. (Happy 35th birthday, Nintendo Entertainment System.)

Notwithstanding the stupid "evil genius laugh" Hogan tries to pull off at the 45-second mark, I fear that Hogan is serious and believes his own hype. I am not sure whether he's trying to cash in on MMA's growing popularity by trying to be 'real,' but all he's going to do by going shoot style is divide an already skeptical locker room. But it's a TiVo world, and if Hogan wants to watch late 90's and early '00's WCW, he's doing a great job with the fast-forward button.

I, on the other hand, just hit "power." Think I'll read a book.

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Chris "IrishCanadian25" Fitzpatrick

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[neildittmar]

The Jim Ross "sit down" interviews with Mankind...
Joey Styles diatribe on RAW condemning "sports entertainment"...
Paul Heymans 10 minute verbal destruction of Vince McMahon on Smackdown...

These stand out to me as some of the best, most emotional promo work in the history of WWE. Far too many highlights to count, far too many genuinely sincere remarks to quote. What made these moments so special for me? They were based in reality... "worked shoots" if you will. I hope it is precisely this stance that Hogan is talking about when he says TNA is about to start shooting.

I agree that going completely "real" is a bad idea for wrestling, as a core part of the product is about the fanfare, the "over the top" theatrics, and the outrageousness of it all. However, a big part of getting the audience there is the whole suspension of disbelief aspect you mentioned. In a world where the "real fights" and drama in something like UFC are competition to the "fake wrestling matches" and fueds produced by WWE and TNA, that suspension of disbelief factor becomes harder and harder to achieve when you're merely "telling stories."

There needs to be some kind of emotional investment. Eric Bischoff said it best in the Monday Night Wars DVD that it's about bringing the most jaded of potential wrestling fans around... getting them to say "now I know all that other stuff is scripted... but THAT wasn't supposed to happen." That type of production is a great catalyst for building emotional investment in the characters, for furthering the storylines, and ultimately making fans want to watch the programs, wear the merchandise, come out to the live shows, and buy the PPVs.

An easy way to do that, at the very least for your core audience, is to hinge those storylines on something real. We saw evidence of this a few weeks back during the verbal confrontation between Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett on iMPACT. Old Double J dropped the "ex-wife" bomb, with Kurt retaliating that he could have her. Though my simplistic description of the transpired events do them no justice, I feel it immediately elevated the feud between the two. It seemingly came out of nowhere, built an emotional rift, and made me say "wow, that wasn't supposed to happen." I'm admittedly not a fan of either Angle or Jarrett, but that one little part of the promo got me immediately interested. My wife, generally not a huge wrestling fan, also had her interest piqued and asked what they were talking about.

If this is what Hogan is referring to by his "shoot" comments, I'm all for it. It's something that will instantly differentiate TNA, as "real" storylines need to have real subject matter, most of which probably wouldn't fly in today's WWE. A pinch of reality injected into the otherwise scripted storylines and feuds would go a long way in getting fans (new and old alike) invested in the product. Hopefully, this is what Hogan ultimately meant.

 

[bringitback]

I could not agree with you more, IC.

I found the most hilarious part of this to be that Hogan wants to tell us that TNA is now going to shoot, by posting a video in which he ACTS THE PART of an evil genius and makes a comment about how TAKING OVER THE COMPANY FROM DIXIE was easy.

So...he's shooting...and acting...poorly...

The only thing that they will end up shooting on, is the talent. It is WCW all over again, only this time with the sort of viewership that ECW had. We have now managed to get to the stage where the marks are in control and the smarts are in the audience, again, and surprise surprise, it's the same fucking people. At least Heyman had the good sense not to lend his name to this one.

It is ridiculous that they are trying to work the fans through a worked shoot. It's an insult to his audience full of 20-34 year olds. It's an insult to a lockeroom full of wonderful talent. And it is also an insult to the poor sponsors and television network that are paying hogan to make a complete twat waffle of himself in an attempt to relive his Hollywood days.

Also...did he mention something about drawing money in that video? Don't you have to charge people entrance to your arena to draw money? Hmmmm.....

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I don't know why in the WORLD you assumed they would go out on a full-fledged shoot. We've seen little bits of shoots over the last month or two, and it's been nothing but great.

I am all for using real life concepts and incorporating them in a pro wrestling storyline, not crossing any boundaries, any lines, and not insulting the wrestlers' personal lives. They're not idiots, they know that this particular approach is a double edged sword.

One of the reasons why ReAction is such a compelling and interesting concept is the fact that it sort of feels like a shoot. The shaky camera, the peeking over the corner, the stuff they say. It feels "real", and the fact that some of it might be makes it much more interesting.

Pro Wrestling has been around for a LONG time. The fans know what's going on. Have your gimmicky characters like Winter and The Undertaker, don't say that the outcomes are pre-determined, but shoot. I rarely get fired up during a promo these days, but when Double J dropped that line to Kurt : "well...ex husband", I almost jumped out of my chair. I fuckin' loved it, and the fans did too. You could tell that they got emotionally invested in it. They started chanting "Kick his ass!" almost immediately, because they put themselves in the face's shoes and couldn't wait for the heel to get his ass whooped. It was great. When done right it can be a powerful tool. I trust in TNA's ability to make it so. That being said -- I say go for it. It hasn't been done as a direction and I'm interested to see how it goes.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

The Jim Ross "sit down" interviews with Mankind...
Joey Styles diatribe on RAW condemning "sports entertainment"...
Paul Heymans 10 minute verbal destruction of Vince McMahon on Smackdown...

These stand out to me as some of the best, most emotional promo work in the history of WWE. Far too many highlights to count, far too many genuinely sincere remarks to quote. What made these moments so special for me? They were based in reality... "worked shoots" if you will. I hope it is precisely this stance that Hogan is talking about when he says TNA is about to start shooting.

I agree that going completely "real" is a bad idea for wrestling, as a core part of the product is about the fanfare, the "over the top" theatrics, and the outrageousness of it all. However, a big part of getting the audience there is the whole suspension of disbelief aspect you mentioned. In a world where the "real fights" and drama in something like UFC are competition to the "fake wrestling matches" and fueds produced by WWE and TNA, that suspension of disbelief factor becomes harder and harder to achieve when you're merely "telling stories."

There needs to be some kind of emotional investment. Eric Bischoff said it best in the Monday Night Wars DVD that it's about bringing the most jaded of potential wrestling fans around... getting them to say "now I know all that other stuff is scripted... but THAT wasn't supposed to happen." That type of production is a great catalyst for building emotional investment in the characters, for furthering the storylines, and ultimately making fans want to watch the programs, wear the merchandise, come out to the live shows, and buy the PPVs.

An easy way to do that, at the very least for your core audience, is to hinge those storylines on something real. We saw evidence of this a few weeks back during the verbal confrontation between Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett on iMPACT. Old Double J dropped the "ex-wife" bomb, with Kurt retaliating that he could have her. Though my simplistic description of the transpired events do them no justice, I feel it immediately elevated the feud between the two. It seemingly came out of nowhere, built an emotional rift, and made me say "wow, that wasn't supposed to happen." I'm admittedly not a fan of either Angle or Jarrett, but that one little part of the promo got me immediately interested. My wife, generally not a huge wrestling fan, also had her interest piqued and asked what they were talking about.

If this is what Hogan is referring to by his "shoot" comments, I'm all for it. It's something that will instantly differentiate TNA, as "real" storylines need to have real subject matter, most of which probably wouldn't fly in today's WWE. A pinch of reality injected into the otherwise scripted storylines and feuds would go a long way in getting fans (new and old alike) invested in the product. Hopefully, this is what Hogan ultimately meant.

Wow, AWESOME response, dude!

You also listed 3 great instances of 'worked shoots' working very well in wrestling. Of course, 2 of the 3 were part of the 'cup of coffee' I alluded to in my editorial.

What WCW did wrong in the late 90's was giving 'shooting' a new life by giving guys who were furious and disgruntled an open forum. Eddie Guerrero pouring coffee on himself in the center of the ring comes to mind. Bash at the Beach 2000. You name it.

What Angle and Jarrett did was take an actual real-life situation and show that, despite how difficult it may have been, were professional enough to transition that drama into a work. Edge and Matt Hardy did that a while back and it was a lot of fun.

I'm just not convinced that Hogan, Bischoff, and Russo have the control needed to make a shoot environment work, and you really do need a more united locker room to pull it off effectively.

 

[Maestro48239]

If the Jarrett-Angle segment a couple weeks ago is an example of what Hogan is talking about, then I am all for it! that was one of the best promos I've seen in forever, taking shots on Karen Angle-Jarrett was excellent. and I was like "DAAAAMN!" I was thinking exactly what the Impact crowd was chanting, "kick his ass"

If I was at a party and an argument broke out over an ex, I would expect an asskicking would immediately ensue.

to sum it up, Worked shoots are great if done right. I hope they do this right, it will make my TNA watching experience all that much more enjoyable!

 

[Reddannihilation]

Go pick a nationality IC. You only get one.

In all honesty, great potential, shoots are what made 90's wrestling fun, when X-Pac debuted on RAW and slammed the shit out of WCW and talked about Nash and Hall wanting to join him in the WWF people sat up and took notice. Same deal with Heyman when he shot on TNN for cancelling ECW. Shoots work well, the problem faced by WCW in regard to shooting had a lot more to do with all the shit already going on backstage, front stage, in the home office etc.

WCW's "shoot era" didn't work because just about anyone could do whatever they wanted. Goldberg didn't want to do something, so he didn't and so on with just about anyone. TNA doesn't have that weird cobbled leadership issue. There's a creative team and a single entity that signs the pay cheque, no creativity clauses or any of that bullshit. WCW's problems were never the actual writing, it was all to do with contracts that let the wrestlers veto executive decisions. That issue doesn't exist in TNA, Jay Lethal doesn't have clause that lets him change shit up whenever he wants to, which probably explains his lacking career...anyway, Hogan, Bischoff, Russo and the other creative members have demonstrated good writing, and with TNA set up the way it is, their doesn't seem like there'll be much in the way of creative power struggles. So for the most part this has the potential to be great, and of course it could wind up badly, but the big issue I find, when comparing it to WCW is that most of these guys aren't in the position to challenge leadership.

Shoots could work quite well, I'm looking forward to see how it turns out. So long as I don't have any "Dustin Rhodes hates being Goldust-esque moments from guys like Joe or Orlando Jordan".

 

[blackmetalbuick]

Constant negativity from the IWC. If TNA is going to try something new, awesome! Sure it might fail. But is it better to just stay on the current course? You have to try in order to succeed. You have to try in order to fail. Or you can do nothing.

Most people hate on TNA 24/7, so now they're talking about trying something new, and they get more hate for it?

I think there is a lot of potential in this idea. Remember a few weeks back when the article came out about what Heyman's 5 year plan would have been if he joined TNA? It hinted at similar ideas. He talked about what needed to be done to make wrestling more acceptable/cool, make it more real, etc. Of course, most people reading that article said it sounded like a somewhat good idea. Now we have some of the same things coming from Hogan, and suddenly people are hating on it.

I already love TNA Reaction because of the way they shoot and edit it, the way it seems a bit more real. I like Reaction more than I've ever liked Impact. So if they're going to try to push the envelope with trying to appear unscripted and "raw" (no pun intended), I applaud them for it.

Some people just hate TNA no matter what. People hate them as-is. People hate them for saying they're going to get more real. People would hate them if they said they were going to start doing over the top gimmicks and more of an "unreal" product. They can't win.

Despite the constant barrage of criticism, they keep going, so good for them. I hope this works out.

Going for a shoot style doesn't automatically equate to the later years of WCW. WCW wasn't just a shoot, it was a mess.

And as "neildittmar" said above, the occasional shoot segment that we get in wrestling these days usually goes over big with the fans. Fans like it when they can tell the curtain has dropped and we're hearing someone talk about what's really going on backstage or in the company. Why not incorporate this much more often? Although, to play devil's advocate, maybe shoot moments are special because of how rare they are. Maybe the excitement won't last if you're "shooting" every minute of every event.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

It seems that TNA is trying to do everything other than wrestling.

I do agree with IC. There is nothing that TNA will gain by this. They are trying to be different but at the same time they are not realizing that they are becoming WCW version 2.0. A shoot comment once in a while is OK and might also be perceived by some people as acknowledging the smark fans of wrestling. But the beauty of such shoots is that it is meant to take the smark fans by surprise. Having a surprise everytime ruins surprises. Another thing that I feel like mentioning here is that there are still many fans who sit in the audience who are marks. Shoots should provide something for the marks to connect to as well

For example there is Paul Heyman's shoot on Vince. Marks hate Vince for his on screen character. Heyman saying that Vince destroyed his company in some effect is adding to the heat that Vince gets. So it pleases both marks and smarks. Compare that to what Vince Russo did at Bash at the Beach in 2000. He said something that is well known among smarks: That Hogan is a backstage politician while the marks could not understand what the fuck he meant by things like "creative control card" and so on. So what he said was of no value and WCW just came off looking stupid.

But on the positive side I do not think TNA will go shoot crazy. It is just Hogan's way of promoting stuff. He just comes off like an ass sometimes.

On a side note: IC you've been on fire this week. Didn't you post an article on Bragging Rights just days ago?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Like Maestro48239, if what he's got in mind is even a tenth like what we saw with Jarrett v. Angle a few weeks back then I'm all for this, because that style of shooting is incredibly compelling and exciting, just as it's always been as far as I'm concerned.

I'm a little confused though – isn't this what they've already been doing for months? Look at the ReAction footage if you don't believe me. They shoot like this quite often already.

 

[WolfNyte]

As another Poster said the whole Angle Jarret thing brings to mind the Edge/Lita/Matt saga a few years ago.

Now I dont know how many of you remember it but I do and after the first week it became flat as a pancake. People started taking bathroom breaks at the show and at home when the segments would start. It got old and boring real fast.

Was it because Matt cant cut a promo for a can of Spam or Lita who was even worse with Promos? Edge tried to keep it working but no one was intrested after a while and so it was dropped.

If you want to do a shoot style promo do something like Jericho and HBK did it kep the fans rivited and heck some chick even punched Jericho in the face in the parking lot becaose of it.

Personally I dont think many have the skills that Jericho and HBK have to do a shoot style promo where the hate almost seems real. Even if in real life its a real event.

Remember even fans and the IWC got tired of the HHH/ Orton saga even with the attack at the house. Same with Austin and Pillman...not sure how many remember that incident...but I just dont see anyone with the chops and skills to really do a great intense feels real Shoot style in either the WWE or TNA anymore.

Just remember Angle and Jarett dont really hate eacother. In fact no fed would put two guys who really hate eachother in the ring together. There is way too great a risk of one of your stars getting legit injured that way. Hence why sloppy guys get released quickly.

In the ring your opponent is there to do a great match and protect you from getting hurt bad and you are there to do the same for him. Why do you think Kevin Nash got so pissed at 3D when they were over stiff and not protecting their opponent from major injury.

Remember when Sabu broke his neck...Benoit went with him to the Hospital. When Owen Hart Injured Austin with the Pile Driver backstage reports said he was in tears and went with him to the ER. Over and over you hear it you are there to look good and come out with no serious injuries. In big moves you can see depending on camera angles the one that took the move being asked if they are ok by the one who made the move.

 

[RD_21]

In another thread about Dixie's revenge someone mentionned that maybe they could fake a court trial between Dixie and Hogan to make it seems more real. They also have the Shore/TMZ thing, maybe that's what he meant.

Wrestlezone took it as TNA will got full shoot but maybe it's not full shoot style but trying to make it seem more true to like like it's all real.

And like previous posters said the Angle-Jarrett feud was really interesting when he used some real life part in it so if they can do it well like that I am all for it.

Plus the downfall of the wCw was way later than that the real full on shoot style they tried to do was with Russo-Hogan, Goldberg, Jarrett and other things. Jericho and the Radicalz were long gone.

 

[MB1025]

Since Hogan was in character how can you or anyone else even take this serious? I mean a whole editorial was dedicated to something that can be completely false because he is on twitter and in character. Yet we come out of this thinking he is going to turn TNA into a worked shoot.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Come on, man, not you too. You're literally criticizing something BEFORE IT HAPPENS, and therefore, before you have any idea how it's going to play out. It's literally an article about nothing. "If this happens, it sucks." Ok, but if that doesn't happen, you're article was about nothing. Just looks like another chance to take a potshot at TNA. You're a great poster, but I think you REALLY missed the boat on this one.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Come on, man, not you too. You're literally criticizing something BEFORE IT HAPPENS, and therefore, before you have any idea how it's going to play out. It's literally an article about nothing. "If this happens, it sucks." Ok, but if that doesn't happen, you're article was about nothing. Just looks like another chance to take a potshot at TNA. You're a great poster, but I think you REALLY missed the boat on this one.

Did you watch the video? Hogan seems pretty certain (or drunk) that this is going down. And you've seen Russo's work in WCW before - the shock value he goes for. Do you not believe it's logical for me to be a tad concerned for WCW, er, I mean TNA?

Besides, half of this forum is about hypotheticals. We speculate constantly on the Main Events of PPV's, heel turns, and who the Undertaker is facing at WM. It's interesting. I think just the spectre of the 'shoot style' in TNA is enough to pique our interest. So maybe in that regard, Hogan is successful.

 

[MarkoMan]

*sigh*
I think that because I hardly remember wrestling's past (I'm 22 now, and I started watching wrestling with WCW and I kinda remember watching the Attitude Era), everything that TNA does is new and refreshing to me compared to the baby stories complimented by the lack luster wrestling that goes on in WWE. Even with the knowledge of wrestling being scripted right down to each move having to be sold a certain way so as to not get hurt and whatnot, I definitely find myself marking out to a number of things in TNA.

I do feel as though Hogan's video is kinda ridiculous. He says that TNA will start shooting, but then says something like, "we're getting evil on your asses," and has that stupid laugh... that doesn't make sense. And a lot of decisions that Hogan has made since he came hasn't make sense. And I wish he and Bischoff would leave sometimes (but keep Flair, he's just too entertaining in his current position). But I enjoy TNA, be it WCW 2.0 or not.

Does that mean that I think everything that TNA does is gold? Not really, but in my eyes, what everyone else seems to see as bullshit is good tv in my eyes, and the few mistakes that I do see in the programming are easily forgiven.

just my 2 cents.

 

[Twiztid Rodimus]

If done right this can be interesting.

Can you imagine if more and more, they involved real elements and rumors. It may sound odd, but check it out.

What if someone brought the drug thing dealing with Jeff Hardy, similar to punk, but Jeff, instead of trying to make up for his mistakes, he indulges in it. And he speaks on how it takes him to a higher plane, and now that he's there, he doesnt need drugs anymore, and it gave him a sense of clarity he never had.

Promos with Jeff with his face paint, shadowed with the belt barely visible, talking raven style about his usage.

Could be VERY entertaining.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I think that the best part of this approach is the fact that it's "terra incognita" in pro wrestling. Meaning that it's never been done before, or at least noone's ever considered it as being a key element in their product. Usually on-air shoots happen in a DX-ish way, or when someone's given the mic to voice their opinions and frustrations, i.e Paul Heyman, Shawn Michaels' "Bret is obsessed with me" segment, Rocky Maivia turning into The Rock, you get the picture.

The fact that's it's "new" and a bit rebellious and revolutionary means that there's a BUNCH of stuff about it that have never been discovered. Hence, a lot more to work with, a lot to use, a lot of fat to cut, and ideally mold it into one interesting aspect of TNA. If TNA is really serious on using real life and making it an on-air drama, then these guys have a constant, unlimited flow of ideas for storylines that maybe normally they wouldn't think of or wouldn't have the balls to put in action.

The "gimmicks" on the other hand will get a LOT more realistic too, because the storylines are based on the wrestlers' actions off air/backstage. That way a certain "gimmick" would technically be the wrestler's actual personality, which means that he/she/OJ will feel a lot more comfortable with it and maybe improve his/her/OJ's overall performance.

TNA is fond of that, obviously, since they let a lot of guys use their indy gimmicks which are their own doing, be creative with themselves in order to be who they WANT to be and make it work. WWE didn't let Anderson use his catchphrase ( Nice guys finish last, thank God I'm an asshole ) due to obvious reasons, they never let Elijah Burke have this Pope gimmick, etc.

I mean, what's more real than what Hogan suggests? They can't allow them to kick eachother's asses like they do in UFC, so instead you use stuff that everyone knows about to create storylines which in fact created themselves. That's what he meant by "no more fake storylines". I expect the majority of the storylines to be a real life conflict between two wrestlers. It's up to the wrestlers themselves to feed off of it, be professional and realize that it helps the product. These guys left their personal lives behind by signing with a pro wrestling promotion to begin with, so I don't see an issue. TNA wrestlers have some pull and creative imput on what's done with them, unlike WWE, so if they're not okay with a storyline, I'm quite sure TNA won't force them into it.

I think it could either be a golden mine or a shit pit. It's up to TNA to decide.

 

[VencomHardcore]

I THINK THIS IDEA IS PERFECT ! And I am not a Hogan Fan at all. I will explain.

The hottest rated shows right now besides dramas are Reality TV. You can't get around it. These shows are bringing the dollars and allow people to have deeper connections to characters. Because the situations are real. But most people don't know that Reality TV is " loosely scripted " in order to have the juicy bits.

Now going to a shoot style using the Reaction Camera Style would put TNA in a new category. It would be Fresh, Hip and Draw UFC Fans in by having a wrestling show that feels like a Reality Based TV show rather than a Gimmicked Out Product of the 80's.

If it is done right. It would make TNA more real. Add better elements into the storyline and hook the viewers. What they would need to do is up the amount of wrestling to give a nice balance of shoot & action.

Hell they could take the shoot cameras on the road. Fan interviews, backstage match preparation, real like drama between the wrestlers and work it into the storyline would make one damn compelling product. Imagine TNA giving you what really happens on the road, and turning characters into Personalities that you could really get behind because you could connect with them. It would help those wrestlers that can't cut promos while allowing those who can to create moments of genius.

If you don't think that VKM wouldn't go shoot style if it increases TNA's rating to a 2.0 , guess again. They just need to have a good Reality TV Producer to help make it work. Probably Endemol Entertainment or Bunim/Murray [ Real World , Road Rules , etc. ] or Chris Abrego [ Flavor of love, etc. ] .

I think it is the edge tna would need

 

[shattered dreams]

I wish that IWG post I made had some more traffic because this is precisely what I was talking about there. Worked shoots vs "worked shoots." Just because you mention something from outside the theoretical kayfabe world does not mean it is a shoot.

I found the most hilarious part of this to be that Hogan wants to tell us that TNA is now going to shoot, by posting a video in which he ACTS THE PART of an evil genius and makes a comment about how TAKING OVER THE COMPANY FROM DIXIE was easy.

So...he's shooting...and acting...poorly...

Actually, if he is acting, which a three year old can tell Hogan is in that video because he is in full character, then it is not a shoot. TNA wants you to hate the new regime. One way they are trying to do that is cultivate this just like what killed WCW stuff that riles up the IWC like nothing else. They put out this stuff and expect the internet to overreact. I'll ask it again what shoot has TNA worked? They have not been working any real shoots that people are still legitimately mad about. Huge difference compared to the past. They are doing a hell of a job creating that illusion, which people are eating up like babies and helping them created this blurred line to enhance the reality factor for their programming. Judging by this response as well as many other similar happenings, it is working like a charm.

The genius of reaction is the "shooting" in character. The line is incredibly blurred but still there. That Hogan video is no different than a reaction segment yet look at all the people here treating it like it means something real.

 

[Brian in Austin]

I could not agree with you more, IC.

I found the most hilarious part of this to be that Hogan wants to tell us that TNA is now going to shoot, by posting a video in which he ACTS THE PART of an evil genius and makes a comment about how TAKING OVER THE COMPANY FROM DIXIE was easy.

So...he's shooting...and acting...poorly...

The only thing that they will end up shooting on, is the talent. It is WCW all over again, only this time with the sort of viewership that ECW had. We have now managed to get to the stage where the marks are in control and the smarts are in the audience, again, and surprise surprise, it's the same fucking people. At least Heyman had the good sense not to lend his name to this one.

It is ridiculous that they are trying to work the fans through a worked shoot. It's an insult to his audience full of 20-34 year olds. It's an insult to a lockeroom full of wonderful talent. And it is also an insult to the poor sponsors and television network that are paying hogan to make a complete twat waffle of himself in an attempt to relive his Hollywood days.

Also...did he mention something about drawing money in that video? Don't you have to charge people entrance to your arena to draw money? Hmmmm.....

I feel completely vindicated. Just a few weeks ago I said on this very site that TNA was headed the way of WCW/NWO days. I said it was the same people running the show, the same direction in writing with the same basic
cast of characters. (Bischoff, Hogan, Sting, Nash, Hall, and XPac.)

Well, I was right.

 

[shattered dreams]

I feel completely vindicated. Just a few weeks ago I said on this very site that TNA was headed the way of WCW/NWO days. I said it was the same people running the show, the same direction in writing with the same basic
cast of characters. (Bischoff, Hogan, Sting, Nash, Hall, and XPac.)

Well, I was right.

Cool, TNA is about to beat WWE in the ratings 84 straight weeks? Sign me up. Thank god those idiots that have never accomplished anything in the wrestling business are in charge. Hopefully, they only do so many worked shoots. Everyone knows worked shoots pretty much killed wcw single-handedly. Definitely the shoots being worked was 10 times more significant in the downfall compared to the AOL Time Warner aspect.

It truly is hilarious what people can get out of a kayfabe video. It is also pretty amusing how everyone denounces worked shoots because of the aforementioned general knowledge but they still respond to even the fake ones with immense interest.

 

[Reddannihilation]

I feel completely vindicated. Just a few weeks ago I said on this very site that TNA was headed the way of WCW/NWO days. I said it was the same people running the show, the same direction in writing with the same basic
cast of characters. (Bischoff, Hogan, Sting, Nash, Hall, and XPac.)

Well, I was right.

Ummm, the 4 guys in bold aren't actually involved in TNA currently, 2 of them don't even work there and haven't for a fairly long time. Well, you were wrong. Also the WCW/NWO days are absolutely nothing like the Shoot days they're two completely different eras.

 

[johnbragg]

"Worked shoots" are a bad idea. "Breaking the fourth wall" (the non-wrestling term for breaking character and talking to the audience, mixing fiction and reality) is a bad idea. It was original, fresh and creative a hundred years ago. Not anymore.

In very small doses, these things give a thrill to the audience that gets the joke. In the forgettable movie "Maverick", Mel Gibson plays Maverick. His LEthal WEapon partner Danny Glover plays some random guy. They hold eye contact for a second, as if they half-remember each other. Probably the best moment in the movie, which tells you it wasn't a very good movie.

But diminishing returns set in very quickly. It's like cocaine or heroin--it (I've heard) creates an amazing high the first time or two, but ravages the body and you have to take ever-increasing doses to try to hit that high again.

Number one, when a promotion sells one match as "real", it highlights the fakeness of all the other matches. Put too much effort into selling Angle-Jarrett as a "real fight" and not just a worked pro wrestling match, and you can't create any interest at all in, say, Lethal-Kazarian for the X-Division Title as part of Immortal's campaign to secure all the belts. You boost a few matches/feuds at the expense of destroying the credibility of the show as a whole.

Number two, you hit diminishing returns very quickly. When Angle-Jarrett is done, you can't create any interest in Angle's feud after Jarrett, because whoever Angle feuds with next (probably) isn't fucking the mother of his kids. You start to feud over more and more esoteric things--who held who back in WCW ten years ago, for instance. Things fewer and fewer people know about, and things that take more and more time to explain. Casual TNA fans could get the ANgle-JArrett story really quickly--Jarrett is living with Karen Angle. Explanation finished. Sting and Hogan talking WCW politics? Not as much.

This doesn't say that you can't use performers' real emotions in promos. I believe that Michael Cole really doesn't respect the independents, and WWE used that in the Daniel Bryan storyline. Angle and Jarrett don't like each other personally, (human nature says that they can't), and that can and should come out--in their promos. But if you take it further than that, if you push the idea that Angle-Jarrett is a "real fight", then you highlight the fact that every other match on the card isn't.

When the creative goal is to get the audience to question "Is this in the script? Is it a work? Is is a shoot?" very quickly the answer becomes "Who cares? This is crap." You get WCW post-Bash at the Beach, an unwatchable mess.

 

[shattered dreams]

Number two, you hit diminishing returns very quickly. When Angle-Jarrett is done, you can't create any interest in Angle's feud after Jarrett, because whoever Angle feuds with next (probably) isn't fucking the mother of his kids. You start to feud over more and more esoteric things--who held who back in WCW ten years ago, for instance. Things fewer and fewer people know about, and things that take more and more time to explain. Casual TNA fans could get the ANgle-JArrett story really quickly--Jarrett is living with Karen Angle. Explanation finished. Sting and Hogan talking WCW politics? Not as much.

More casual fans know about sting-hogan than they do the angle-jarrett real life situation. It is a numbers game and it isn't even close. The "letdown" after a good feud can happen no matter what the story depends on. I do not think you would argue that Taker-Michaels should not have happened because the Taker's next feud would inevitably be a letdown, so why do that here? In wrestling you put on the best feud you can and then see what happens next. An advantage of what I call "worked shoots" is that you can always manufacture a new "real" story. So this infinite returns theory may not hold up.

This doesn't say that you can't use performers' real emotions in promos. I believe that Michael Cole really doesn't respect the independents, and WWE used that in the Daniel Bryan storyline. Angle and Jarrett don't like each other personally, (human nature says that they can't), and that can and should come out--in their promos. But if you take it further than that, if you push the idea that Angle-Jarrett is a "real fight", then you highlight the fact that every other match on the card isn't.

Hasn't TNA only done the former and not the latter?

When the creative goal is to get the audience to question "Is this in the script? Is it a work? Is is a shoot?" very quickly the answer becomes "Who cares? This is crap." You get WCW post-Bash at the Beach, an unwatchable mess.

So the whole IWC can be summed as a who cares this is crap, unreadable mess? While I might agree I would find the comment ironic coming from someone that devotes a fair amount of time to it.

It is not about convincing people a fight is "real." It is about helping them suspend disbelief further because the motivations are plausible on several levels. Why should certain elements that can make a story better be off limits? At a time when viewers are tougher to come by for all, pointlessly limiting creative from mentioning things everyone knows anyway, all in the name of some urban legend from 10 years ago in a company with tons of other more important problems, is quite misguided IMO.