Not really. They just look like *****es. Losing to a bunch of thrown together teams. It undermines the entire point of them being a team. Yeah, they get angry about it and then turn heel for five minutes. Fantastic. I'm guessing we'll be getting an LAX/Beer Money rematch at Bound For Glory then? Good, they're always in good matches. May as well disband the Guns now, even I've lost interest.
I Must Say This Motor City Heel Turn is Going Remarkably Well
- Thread starter Uncle Sam
- Start date
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dirtyshubb
Pre-Show Stalwart
I really hope that after BFG they put the spotlight on MCMG as its been a long fucking time coming, surely they have been jobbed enough by now (unless Alex has been causing trouble backstage some more 
)
I think once this whole new blood vs old guard really gets started they could be the tag show peace for the young bloods but who knows, they could just repackage them and reinvent the JOB Squad!
)I think once this whole new blood vs old guard really gets started they could be the tag show peace for the young bloods but who knows, they could just repackage them and reinvent the JOB Squad!
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Leave it to TNA to manage to screw up one of two thigns they have on WWE by messing up one of its best teams. I'm a fan of tag team wrestling and the Guns are the only team that I've ever stopped what I was doing to watch. These two are what the Hardys were supposed to be. They were getting good reactions, they're solid in the ring, they have a common theme to their characters, they're marketable. Well that's grounds for burying a team and turning them heel if I've ever seen any. Why oh why must TNA do this? What does it help to have Christian and Rhyno, two former world champions beat the Guns? Rhyno and Christian don't need a push, they're over on their own. My only hope is that the Guns are put into the new generation angle. Only thing that'll make this worthwhile.
Afro-Ameri-Spawn
Houston's Hometown Hero
To be perfectly honest, I think that the Motor City Machine Guns are completely over rated. I mean what makes them special? That's they pose and posture before and after just about every move that they perform, whether it's successful or not. That's they know how to point to their hands to show you where Detroit is? Wow, that's neat. most of the sane and rational world just uses a map or a road atlas. I know I do.
The simple fact of the matter is that, while the Motor City Machine Guns are a fast and furious tag team that is fun to watch, they lack the polish that a classic tag team needs to have. So you sell some t-shirts. So you teach millions of youth every week how to make state themed hand puppets. That still does not make you credible to hold gold. And before you bring up Adam "Pacman" Jones to me, I will say that I am sure that if Adam was asked to sell a move properly for more than 3 seconds, he could have grasped that concept. And he has alot less experience than that guns!.
So what holds them back? Backstage politics? No, because Russo, who everybody blames for anything booking related, actually likes pushing new stars. Do they lack the look? Well while I'm sure there is many an Emo kid out there wondering what the fuck Alex Shelly and Chris Sabin were thinking when they got dressed that morning, they still match. And that's essential for a team right? To be on the same page? Well apparently they are on the same page so much that they are both two of the cockiest bastards you could meet.
Just because you sell a shirt or two doesn't mean that you can coast your way through like in TNA. I mean, are they actually under the impression that WE money is going to come flying at them because they have a following in TNA? Sure lightening struck twice in the form of Chris Harris and Ron Killings, but they had their size and their perceived ring polish in their favor. The Guns, while exciting, don't have that. They would need extensive developmental training, and an attitude adjustment when they got there. Oh, and ROH doesn't float in WWE. And if you expect to be the next Londrick, then look at Londrick now. Paul London is in limbo and Kendrick needs a bigger guy to make him look like a legit douchebag(copywritten 2007). So odds are that their ROH fandom would lead to them being back in ROH, not something that they financially want to do right now in their careers.
So in closing, do I think that The Guns are talented? Hell yes I do. Do I think that they should be a force to be reconed with? of course? Do I think that they are now pushworthy material? Well when the fucking Prince Justice Brotherhood is pulling in higher ratings than you are, then odds are that you are meant for jobberdome for the time being. Case closed. Guns lose..... for now.
The simple fact of the matter is that, while the Motor City Machine Guns are a fast and furious tag team that is fun to watch, they lack the polish that a classic tag team needs to have. So you sell some t-shirts. So you teach millions of youth every week how to make state themed hand puppets. That still does not make you credible to hold gold. And before you bring up Adam "Pacman" Jones to me, I will say that I am sure that if Adam was asked to sell a move properly for more than 3 seconds, he could have grasped that concept. And he has alot less experience than that guns!.
So what holds them back? Backstage politics? No, because Russo, who everybody blames for anything booking related, actually likes pushing new stars. Do they lack the look? Well while I'm sure there is many an Emo kid out there wondering what the fuck Alex Shelly and Chris Sabin were thinking when they got dressed that morning, they still match. And that's essential for a team right? To be on the same page? Well apparently they are on the same page so much that they are both two of the cockiest bastards you could meet.
Just because you sell a shirt or two doesn't mean that you can coast your way through like in TNA. I mean, are they actually under the impression that WE money is going to come flying at them because they have a following in TNA? Sure lightening struck twice in the form of Chris Harris and Ron Killings, but they had their size and their perceived ring polish in their favor. The Guns, while exciting, don't have that. They would need extensive developmental training, and an attitude adjustment when they got there. Oh, and ROH doesn't float in WWE. And if you expect to be the next Londrick, then look at Londrick now. Paul London is in limbo and Kendrick needs a bigger guy to make him look like a legit douchebag(copywritten 2007). So odds are that their ROH fandom would lead to them being back in ROH, not something that they financially want to do right now in their careers.
So in closing, do I think that The Guns are talented? Hell yes I do. Do I think that they should be a force to be reconed with? of course? Do I think that they are now pushworthy material? Well when the fucking Prince Justice Brotherhood is pulling in higher ratings than you are, then odds are that you are meant for jobberdome for the time being. Case closed. Guns lose..... for now.
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
Sorry Sam, I never truly was high up on the Gunns to begin with. They make a decent team, but in the end they're not different than Roode and Storm. They were just two guys in a division that doesn't technically need them (right now) so they had nothing better to do, than team together.
The Gunns are quite possibly T.N.A.'s version of Too Cool, only with talent and fun to watch.
I think both Alex Shelley and Chris Saban would be better served to disbanned and rejoin the ranks of the X-Division for a shot at the title. Both Shelley and Saban, as single's wrestlers are leaps and bounds above Creed, Dutt, Bashir and even Lethal. (albeit Lethal has come into his own)
The only thing that would help the Gunns to be a better team, is more teams their size. L.A.X. truly is the underrated team of T.N.A.. they have an X-Division athlete and a Heavyweight. Styles and Tomko were another great team, but not as good as Styles and Daniels. However the Gunns are NONE of those teams, and won't ever be remotely close to those teams unless T.N.A. starts booking them as something other than jobbers.
At this rate, the Rock N' Rave Infection is getting more air-time, and victories, than the Gunns.. and that's a disgrace. Maybe the Gunns need some T&A to make it in T.N.A.
The Gunns are quite possibly T.N.A.'s version of Too Cool, only with talent and fun to watch.
I think both Alex Shelley and Chris Saban would be better served to disbanned and rejoin the ranks of the X-Division for a shot at the title. Both Shelley and Saban, as single's wrestlers are leaps and bounds above Creed, Dutt, Bashir and even Lethal. (albeit Lethal has come into his own)
The only thing that would help the Gunns to be a better team, is more teams their size. L.A.X. truly is the underrated team of T.N.A.. they have an X-Division athlete and a Heavyweight. Styles and Tomko were another great team, but not as good as Styles and Daniels. However the Gunns are NONE of those teams, and won't ever be remotely close to those teams unless T.N.A. starts booking them as something other than jobbers.
At this rate, the Rock N' Rave Infection is getting more air-time, and victories, than the Gunns.. and that's a disgrace. Maybe the Gunns need some T&A to make it in T.N.A.
Greenlight13
Getting Noticed By Management
The anti-Guns comments will be ignored as that's a whole other debate but in terms of a heel push well I'm not really sure. The fans aren't booing them, they're cheering. Do the crowd really love B.G. James enough to boo when their favourite tag team slap him in the face? I doubt it. I mean from where I sit on the end of my television, the Guns are just as popular with the fans as they were before so the heel turn isn't really working.
In principal I liked the idea because I figured at least it was a recurring storyline for them after months of jobbing, but logically where can they go with it? Beer Money are keeping those belts for a while to feud with "super teams" like Christian & Rhino, and Beer Money get far more heel heat than the Guns ever will so they can't feud can they? If you are a tag team that isn't feuding with the champions then what can you do? Sure Team 3D can pseudo-main-event from time to time, but these guys have tenure and are big mean bastards. What can the Guns do? Enter into a feud with the Prince Justice Brotherhood who seek to teach them some manners?!? No thanks.
The only way I see this working out for them is if this New Blood vs. Old Boys faction war kicks off and they betray the New Blood in favour of the older guys stating that they bust their asses everynight for the fans but they don't get anywhere and that by alligning with the true power in TNA they can get what they want. Even then, Team 3D, Beer Money will presumabley be with the older guys and the ever-closer-to-splitting L.A.X. and the Brotherhood will be the New Blood. That leaves the Rock'N Rave Infection to feud with the Guns in dark matches for 8 years. Lovely.
Do I think the Guns could make it in the WWE? Yes, I actually do. I doubt they'd climb to the top of the mountan and be champs for half a year, but I think they could do something with them. WWE is run more like a sensible business than TNA so surely even they couldn't deny the marketablity and merchandise-shifting of these guys. They're young, good looking and cocky, all things WWE like. They would likely have to slow up their in-ring game a little to adjust to the WWE style but even then they'd be the fastest team in the WWE in years and a sort of New Age Hardy Boyz, Vince may not like tag teams but surely he can't pass up that oppurtunity. Of those currently active in the WWE the top merchandise shifter is Triple H, and who is number 2? Undertaker? Batista? John Cena? Rey Mysterio? Nope, Hardy Boyz.
The only thing holding them back would be Alex's attitude, sure he's abrasive and sarcastic and probably rubs people the wrong way, maybe he doesn't like to listen to road agents and likes to just work his own way. But don't the WWE have someone like that already? I believe he became World Heavyweight champion and is in line for a high-profile feud with Randy Orton. If he can make it work in one year, surely the Guns can?
Also just thought I'd clear up by top merchandise shifter, I mean totals, not on average. I'm sure Cena currently shifts more than both Hardyz combined, but in terms of over their entire career, like total number of units shifted, then it's the Hardy Boyz.
In principal I liked the idea because I figured at least it was a recurring storyline for them after months of jobbing, but logically where can they go with it? Beer Money are keeping those belts for a while to feud with "super teams" like Christian & Rhino, and Beer Money get far more heel heat than the Guns ever will so they can't feud can they? If you are a tag team that isn't feuding with the champions then what can you do? Sure Team 3D can pseudo-main-event from time to time, but these guys have tenure and are big mean bastards. What can the Guns do? Enter into a feud with the Prince Justice Brotherhood who seek to teach them some manners?!? No thanks.
The only way I see this working out for them is if this New Blood vs. Old Boys faction war kicks off and they betray the New Blood in favour of the older guys stating that they bust their asses everynight for the fans but they don't get anywhere and that by alligning with the true power in TNA they can get what they want. Even then, Team 3D, Beer Money will presumabley be with the older guys and the ever-closer-to-splitting L.A.X. and the Brotherhood will be the New Blood. That leaves the Rock'N Rave Infection to feud with the Guns in dark matches for 8 years. Lovely.
Do I think the Guns could make it in the WWE? Yes, I actually do. I doubt they'd climb to the top of the mountan and be champs for half a year, but I think they could do something with them. WWE is run more like a sensible business than TNA so surely even they couldn't deny the marketablity and merchandise-shifting of these guys. They're young, good looking and cocky, all things WWE like. They would likely have to slow up their in-ring game a little to adjust to the WWE style but even then they'd be the fastest team in the WWE in years and a sort of New Age Hardy Boyz, Vince may not like tag teams but surely he can't pass up that oppurtunity. Of those currently active in the WWE the top merchandise shifter is Triple H, and who is number 2? Undertaker? Batista? John Cena? Rey Mysterio? Nope, Hardy Boyz.
The only thing holding them back would be Alex's attitude, sure he's abrasive and sarcastic and probably rubs people the wrong way, maybe he doesn't like to listen to road agents and likes to just work his own way. But don't the WWE have someone like that already? I believe he became World Heavyweight champion and is in line for a high-profile feud with Randy Orton. If he can make it work in one year, surely the Guns can?
Also just thought I'd clear up by top merchandise shifter, I mean totals, not on average. I'm sure Cena currently shifts more than both Hardyz combined, but in terms of over their entire career, like total number of units shifted, then it's the Hardy Boyz.
I was thinking of their incredibly athletic and synchronized style that makes them unique, to be honest. They're basically AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels but with a more identifiable gimmick.
The Guns selling is fine. People just look closer at them because they're cruiserweights and they perform unorthodox moves. In order to maintain a high pace, they have to stagger to their feet quickly, otherwise it just doesn't work and the pace slows to zero.
They're cocky? Eh, fair enough I guess.
Don't understand this paragraph. Are you saying they want to make it in the WWE?
The ratings situation is completely blown out of proportion. I mean, ratings don't even matter that much as long as they aren't pouring off. TNA stay in the same range no matter what. Then there's how they're pushed. Very consistently. As constant low carders. Go back six months and they were on course for the tag titles. Then Destination X, no. 1 contender match, they're on the poster, it's got to happen; WHAM! Jobberdom. You're bound to lose momentum after that.
You don't like anyone from ROH. Let's be honest. And stop talking about the Smoking Gunns will. Motor City variety please.
Well, they're actually, y'know, an actual team. TNA just cleared them out the way when they cleaned everyone without a costume out of the way. They're a hugely capable tag team, with a reason to be together, with a gimmick that makes sense - or did - and they're established.
I agree. Except Shelley needs that much more than Sabin.
Well, duh. Styles and Daniels were just lucky they were already TNA posterboys. Still, the Guns are doing better than The Naturals.
Man breasts FTW.
Afro-Ameri-Spawn
Houston's Hometown Hero
Well they do say that ignorance is bliss. But if you ignore them, then that gives the appearance that they are too valid to be refuted. And yes, they are just as popular, which isn't really saying much. If their level of popularity doesn't go up, then a push can't be justified. If it doesn't go down, then it causes confusion. So they are in their own personal limbo. Pushing won't solve that right now.
Well it's called work. Prince Justice is on tv every week. They are extremely liked as good guys. If The Guns feud with them, then....... you guessed it, FULL HEEL STATUS! See, sometimes, the way you build heel is not by just them being annoying to the fans, it's through putting them in programs with super faces.
Why turn on the side that would benefit them the most? LAX obviously would not side with anybody, as they are their own side faction. Team 3D would be on the Old Boys side. Jimmy and Lance don't merit being on either side. So who does that leave? The Guns. And to knock The Rock and Rave like you have, you obviously don't know Jimmy Rave's history. If he did some sit ups, he'd be X-Division champ right now. Bet on it.
No no no no. There is so much wrong with this paragraph that I don't know where to begin.
First of all, I'm not sure how you can sit there with a straight face and call WWE a more sensible business when they have single handedly killed their own tag team and cruiserweight divisions on their own. Hell, half the time, their tag titles aren't even on people that can be called tag teams.
Secondly, WWE has at least 25 to 30 "young, good looking, and cocky" guys on the roster and in developmental. Why pay two guys to come in and have to learn your style when you have your own homegrown guys who already are being trained to your style and marketing for cheaper? If they wanted another Hardy Boyz, they would either put them back together or create their own. They have the tools, they can build them.
And thirdly, your statement about The Hardys and merchandising is wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Have you ever heard of a man named Hulk Hogan? You know. Big guy, muscular, best selling merchandiser of all time in the WWF/WWE? And this is considering that none of his merchandise can be mistaken for a shirt from Von Dutch or Abercrombie and Fitch. It's loud, it's gaudy, and it SELLS! No neat insignia that look mainstream or anything. When someone wears a Hulk F'N Hogan shirt, you KNOW they are wearing a Hulk F'N Hogan shirt. Plain and simple.
And attitude is one thing that WWE is trying to avoid. They have wasted too much time and money on guys with attitude problems and aren't looking to throw big bucks at two guys know for it just because they work well as team. If that were the case, then The Naturals would actually have a job rather than just Chase Stevens getting work from time to time. And just because CM Punk made it only means that the cock meat sandwich that Triple H serves him actually is filling his needs. What about if you are a dick, rub agents the wrong way, and DON'T have high profile friends? Well, history has shown that for every CM Punk there are at least 5 guys who, no matter how good a gimmick you have for them, shoot themselves in the foot and end up getting their pink slip. There is a reason why the term for getting booted off of here is called being "Teddy Harted". But maybe it needs some international flavor and they can call it getting "Juventuded" for a while. It all means the same thing.
Still wrong. Hogan can blow snot into a napkin and it would sell at the merchandise stand, Sure people like the little snappy symbols on the Hardy shirts cuz you can wear em and not look like "wrasslin" fans. But when you walk around proudly with a red bandanna and a yellow shirt that says "Hulk Rulez" on the front, then THAT is called merchandising power. And that's not counting the numbers that sale just so that people can razor up the back and make em look like the ones that Hogan wears himself. Ever seen someone do that to a Hardy shirt? God forbid no. That's a waste of money.
TheOneBigWill
[This Space for Rent]
Technically that's not entirely true. I'm really big on both Saban and especially Shelley. I was a fan of Alex Shelley when he was nothing to everyone.
Out of the R.O.H. group, it's Samoa Joe that I truly dispise, with Austin Starr leading a close second. (sorry, I just didn't care for him) Surprisingly, I LIKE Punk, I just didn't like the way he was mega-pushed for a stupid reason, and he got what the company deserved in that matter.. but that's for other discussions in other threads.
The Gunns are in all honesty one of the only remaining solid (original) Tag Teams left on the roster, shy of Team 3D. But just because they're solid, doesn't mean they deserve anything.
They have talent, and they used to have major charisma with the fans, but lately I don't know.. they seem almost like Kane.. just kinda going television show to show, just winning, losing, or doing whatever to go from one to the other. Neither seem to 'hyped' about anything lately.
This new angle seems to have them going in a huge direction though, because they're the first "Young" Tag Team that's acting disrespectful to the 'Vets'.. but it's kinda backwards because I thought the younger talent was suppose to be the "good guys" with the older talent being "bad".
This young v. old up-start feud is confusing.I second that. Saban is arguably one of the single greatest X-Division stars there are, and only because A.J. Styles is (as you said) a posterboy, does Styles get more acknowledgement than Saban.. but I think Saban may be on par with the X-Division as Styles.
Now, as far as Shelley, he deserves a run as X-Division Champion, he deserved one during the time that Nash first came into the X-Division with Shelley under his 'wing' but for some reason it was Saban again who took the title.
If the Tag Titles aren't in their eye-sight, Shelley needs to capitalize on doing something.. otherwise he'll become the Marty Jannetty of that team.
If you're refering to the Smoking Gunns again, then yes. But if you're comparing the Naturals to the Machine Gunns, than no.
The Naturals were Tag Team Champions, and had a good thing going with Candido before his passing. They've also beaten top teams like Team Canada and America's Most Wanted.
What have the Detroit Gunns done again?
That's likely why Mick Foley was signed.. to drag in the female demographic who craves T&A from males.
- Status
