I agree 100%. Obviously I am a huge RVD fan, but my frustration level with his current situation is through the roof. RVD needs to get out of the WWE and go somewhere so he can showcase all of his moves and prove to those fans who did not have the opportunity to watch him in the real ECW that he is one of the best.
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I agree 100%. Obviously I am a huge RVD fan, but my frustration level with his current situation is through the roof. RVD needs to get out of the WWE and go somewhere so he can showcase all of his moves and prove to those fans who did not have the opportunity to watch him in the real ECW that he is one of the best.
Retribution
Ron Simmons' Script Writer
What makes you say that?
It is no longer wrestling. It's sports entertainment. As Vince if it's wrestling. He'll tell you the same thing.
Martial arts doesn't become wrestling. Martial arts is martial arts. Wrestling is wrestling. I wouldn't walk into a dojo, slap the figure four on someone and call it martial arts, would I?
If it had stayed the same, wrestling fans would be better off today. The fan base would not be as big as when Vince transformed WWF into SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT, but as long as quality wrestlers were showcased, I'd be satisfied.
Why do I have to accept the perceptions perpetuated by Vince McMahon?
The only reason that Vince doesn't refer to his product as "wrestling" is to attract the larger fan base and he's succeeded at that. That's why you'll never hear anybody on Raw, Smackdown!, or ECW referred to as wrestlers, only as "superstars" or "extremists". The W word is like a big no no in the WWE and I'm glad Vince initially did this, because he needed to attract people to a product that wasn't the preconcieved notion of wrestling at the time(two oily guys gripping at eachother in a hot gym down south), and also to get away from the whole steroid trial that was going on. My point is, you can call a dog a cat, but it's still a dog.
Than how do you explain the mass transit of MMA fighters and UFC champs coming into wrestling organizations? It's called evolution man, why can't you grip that? Martial Arts is a very broad term, blanketing hundreds of different styles in one word. The fact is that wrestling has evolved past the amatuer Greco-Roman style (which if you want to be technical is the only "real" wrestling to ever exist) into what you saw in the rings in the mid-80s, into what it is now. Wrestling has incorporated lucha libre, hardcore, MMA, and Ultimate Combat into its style to create what it is not, "Sports Entertainment". And yes, actually you could call a figure four lock martial arts, because all martial arts is, is the art of DEFENSE. There are no strict guidelines as to what is martial arts and what isn't, anything can be martial arts if its taught under that name. Because although its not likely you'll see someone put on a figure four leg lock when defending themselves with martial arts, but you very well would see various punches and kicks, which are part of wrestling are they not?
This I have to disagree with tremendously. Half of the people here, very well possibly including you and myself, would not have been exposed to wrestling has it not been for the introduction of "sports entertainment". If it wasn't for Vince's competition from WCW (who were using cutting edge storylines, more hardcore wrestling, and cruiserweight/lucha libre showcases to battle WWF) than there would be no Attitude era, which would mean that Vince would've kept Stone Cold in his "ringmaster" persona, where Austin would've died in gimmick hell. No Stone Cold would mean no Rock, no D-X, no HHH, none of it. Do you really think wrestling would be better if it wasn't for the great matches these guys gave us over the years? Wrestling would NOT be okay if it wasn't for Vince's "sports entertainment". WWF wouldn't have a TV deal, WCW would still be alive and wasting dozens and dozens of talented guys in shitty storylines and no-push matches, and more than half the people on this board wouldn't be here. If it wasn't for Sports Entertainment, you wouldn't be ABLE to watch wrestling anymore.
Trust me, Vince McMahon did not come up with the theory of Evolution. You can't argue with science, everything evolves.
Retribution
Ron Simmons' Script Writer
Speak for yourself. I was watching WWF and WCW before anyone heard of Dwayne Johnson and Paul Levesque.
Um.. yeah.. Darwin came up with the theory of evolution. I did go to high school. And scientists argue every day. What is your point?
What's my point, man what the hell is your point? I keep coming back with credible evidence and all you respond with is "No that's not true". You don't give any reasons for your ideas.
If you were watching WCW and WWF "long before The Rock and HHH" you were still watching sports entertainment. Sports entertainment began at Wrestlemania 1, and if it wasn't for sports entertainment there would be no TV deals which means you WOULDN'T of been able to watch any of that WCW or WWF your talking about. Give credit where its due.
I keep telling you my point is that wrestling evolves just like everything else, and you bitching and moaning about the "good old days" won't change the fact that if it wasn't for the introduction of guys like Rob Van Dam into the wrestling scene, wrestling would not be nearly as possible and you would never have been able to watch wrestling on TV, therefore never becoming familiar with wrestling and therefore not even being a fan.
Your arguments make no sense man, give me some REASONS, not just "no you're wrong".
If you were watching WCW and WWF "long before The Rock and HHH" you were still watching sports entertainment. Sports entertainment began at Wrestlemania 1, and if it wasn't for sports entertainment there would be no TV deals which means you WOULDN'T of been able to watch any of that WCW or WWF your talking about. Give credit where its due.
I keep telling you my point is that wrestling evolves just like everything else, and you bitching and moaning about the "good old days" won't change the fact that if it wasn't for the introduction of guys like Rob Van Dam into the wrestling scene, wrestling would not be nearly as possible and you would never have been able to watch wrestling on TV, therefore never becoming familiar with wrestling and therefore not even being a fan.
Your arguments make no sense man, give me some REASONS, not just "no you're wrong".
Rabbid Wolverine
Pre-Show Stalwart
RVD is the man.....since he's been jobbing to everyone, he's obviously been less enthusiastic, but who wouldnt be....
as for saying rvd sucks, i dont agree with that, he has put on alot of good matches while in wwe, probly better ones in the old ecw, but he's still good.
he may not be down with that technical wrestling, but if every wrestler was, wouldnt that be boring? and dont say i'm not a real fan for saying that
ps......WEED IS GOOD
........SABU AND RVD ARE INNOCENT
as for saying rvd sucks, i dont agree with that, he has put on alot of good matches while in wwe, probly better ones in the old ecw, but he's still good.
he may not be down with that technical wrestling, but if every wrestler was, wouldnt that be boring? and dont say i'm not a real fan for saying that
ps......WEED IS GOOD
........SABU AND RVD ARE INNOCENT
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
I'm hoping against all hope he either ends up in TNA or to All Japan. Granted, he won't be making as much money in either place, but there are a ton of guys in TNA that can actually work neck and neck with RVD, and All Japan has a rejuvenated juniors division that is insane at this point and time. Hell, even though he's been completely de-pushed losing for a couple of weeks straight, he and Edge tore the roof off during their match and RVD was obviously working at about a third of his creativity when he used to be able to wrestle guys like Storm of Lynn on a regular basis. Now that Jerry is back in shape and kicking ass in TNA, I REALLY want RVD to end up there so they can have one last feud to quench my appetite for legit ECW work instead of horseshit like Bobby Lashley vs. Test for the nineteenth time.
Although he would have worthy competition, I really am hoping that RVD doesn't end up in All Japan (I'm being selfish). I live in Pennsylvania but I will be booking my plane ticket to Orlando ASAP if RVD signs with TNA. I would love to see a rekindled fued between RVD and Jerry Lynn. They produced some of the best matches I have ever seen. Could you imagine the matches RVD could have with AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels? Keep your fingers crossed...
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Suzymbc
Guest
RVD and Jerry Lynn. Now that is where its at!! TNA fans would see an entirely different level of wrestling and in-ring chemistry. They could wrestle every week and I would be biting at the bit to see the matches every time. You're right, they can pull off an on-going fued like that. Lashley/Test and Lashley/Holly is like watching paint dry.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
I guess when RVD went on sabbatical from the bigger companies before signing his WWE contract years back, he did indeed square off against Daniels on the indy circuit in some of what RVD himself described (on his own website) as some of his favorite matches of all time. Just thinking of the potential matchups available with RVD in TNA is a hell of a thought.
Wall_of_Jericho
Break Me Down.
Erm dude, are you insane? Hate RVD? RVD is awesome.
Yeah ok, in ECW he was 100 times better because in ECW there was virtually no limitations to what he could and was allowed to do, and yes since coming to WWE he's had to tone down what he does in the ring but he still has more talent in his little finger than John Cena and Batista.
Yeah ok, in ECW he was 100 times better because in ECW there was virtually no limitations to what he could and was allowed to do, and yes since coming to WWE he's had to tone down what he does in the ring but he still has more talent in his little finger than John Cena and Batista.
I think people who have never seen RVD in ECW have valid reason's to dislike him. In WWE he's never really done anything. His character has been made to look really gullable on many occasion's. He's one of those wrestler's that's had multiple tag title reign's that mean shit with load's of different partner's. His promo's are boring and scripted. And he's inredibly sloppy.
But maybe that's because of WWE. If you work for a company that does'nt use you to you're full potential for 6 year's. It will inevitably take it's toll. You can almost pinpoint the exact date when it went tit's up for RVD. When Triple H reterned. RVD was the sole highlight on the Invasion. After that he was a mid carder. He wrestled Angle, Austin & Taker on PPV before Triple H returned. And he was made to look competative and in the same league as them. In his match's with Triple H he was made to look inferior.
Hopefully TNA will use RVD the ECW way.
But maybe that's because of WWE. If you work for a company that does'nt use you to you're full potential for 6 year's. It will inevitably take it's toll. You can almost pinpoint the exact date when it went tit's up for RVD. When Triple H reterned. RVD was the sole highlight on the Invasion. After that he was a mid carder. He wrestled Angle, Austin & Taker on PPV before Triple H returned. And he was made to look competative and in the same league as them. In his match's with Triple H he was made to look inferior.
Hopefully TNA will use RVD the ECW way.
showtyme27
The New Mr.WWE, Beat Me if You can!
Sorry about not replying sooner but that's why I stated IMO which mean's In My Opinion, RVD IS one of the most talented wrestlers in the world and can hang with anyone, he is one of the most entertaining wrestlers in the last 10 years, and at any giving time can give you a match of the year but again that's just MY Opinion.
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Suzymbc
Guest
I completely agree. Fans today are seeing such a watered down version of RVD as compared to what he is really capable of doing in the ring. Despite the loss of many of his more memorable offensive moves, he continues to be one of the best wrestlers in the ring today. Everyone has to remember that all of that talent that he has "in his little finger" doesn't get to show its face in WWE. It really sucks, because the independent circuit is where he really honed his craft and developed great offensive moves. This innovation can't be showcased on ECW. It's almost like once you reach the "big-time" you have to get rid of everything that made you special. How does that make any sense?
I share your opinion completely. I think that even though we are not able to see RVD at his best because of the restrictions the WWE places on their wrestlers, he is still heads above most of the talent in the WWE. His match with Edge on RAW last week is proof of that. RVD vs. Edge was the best match I have seen on RAW in months. As far as RVD being able to hang with HBK, Kurt Angle and Samoa Joe I think RVD would put on phenomenal matches with all 3 of those guys. In fact, I am looking forwards to a RVD vs. Samoa Joe fued once he makes the jump to TNA. RVD in TNA will showcase his talents and make a believer out of anyone who doubts him.
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Catlmutln187
Guest
I woudent go as far to say he could put on a MOTY at "any moment" but he is definatly capable of great matches. I woudent say that in the beginning he was watered down because he actualley had some great matches with Eddie and Chris Jericho in WWE. I think that this recent resurection of ECW is what has been killing him the most, hopefully TNA will pick up the ball where WWE dropped it and make RVD the great star he once was.
Did you watch money in the bank on raw = RVD vs EDGE ? he carried edge, i was suprised, well not too suprised to see edge win that (vince hates rvd). That match was superb, best in a long time on raw. RVD is a outstanding performer, he had a big part in the original ECW and can wrestle better then majority of wwe sd/raw stars.
laurencescott14490
Dark Match Winner
i agre with other posts saying that in the original ecw he was more creative in his matches because he had more freedom, but i find him to be a bit repetative with each match having the same spots and i found it ironic that at last years one night stand the fans were chanting same old shit to cena (which is true) and yet they were blind to the fact the rvd has been doin the same old shit for quite a while now, i tend to not bother watchin any of his matches these days, except his ones against lashley a few weeks ago
God hate RVD? That is absolutely an idiotic statement to say the least. Hate the company that watered him down. Obviously you have never seen RVD in the Real ECW, not this WWECW abomination that exist now.
The poster above said it best, RVD owned the Invasion storyline. Main event matchs and carrying people and the crowd. Triple H comes back and squashes that and, because of RVD, they banish top rope moves mostly. Even when they dumped him onto the midcard, his matches were still good. Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit at Summerslam 02ish i believe was great. RVD gets a little momentum then he crushes Triple H's throat, and he's thrown into the tag team picture for how many years 2 1/2. Not allowed to showcase himself because he's in horrible tag team bouts. Then he gets injured and gets the biggest pop of the night at one night stand 1. Comes back and steals the spotlight in early 06, wins the title. Then the new ECW screwed the fans. We thought we would get to see the man back where he belongs in the style of matches he should be in, only to have the belt taken from him and any existence of ECW squashed. Now RVD jobs to Bob Holly.
This summer when RVD goes to TNA, it maybe the biggest mistake WWE has made in the last 10 years. When people get to see RVD in his environment and be as innovative as he can be, plus with a huge chip on his shoulder, you will be amazed. Again, don't bash RVD, there's nothing he can do when he has been shackled. Blame the WWE for trying to make Triple H look good.
The poster above said it best, RVD owned the Invasion storyline. Main event matchs and carrying people and the crowd. Triple H comes back and squashes that and, because of RVD, they banish top rope moves mostly. Even when they dumped him onto the midcard, his matches were still good. Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit at Summerslam 02ish i believe was great. RVD gets a little momentum then he crushes Triple H's throat, and he's thrown into the tag team picture for how many years 2 1/2. Not allowed to showcase himself because he's in horrible tag team bouts. Then he gets injured and gets the biggest pop of the night at one night stand 1. Comes back and steals the spotlight in early 06, wins the title. Then the new ECW screwed the fans. We thought we would get to see the man back where he belongs in the style of matches he should be in, only to have the belt taken from him and any existence of ECW squashed. Now RVD jobs to Bob Holly.
This summer when RVD goes to TNA, it maybe the biggest mistake WWE has made in the last 10 years. When people get to see RVD in his environment and be as innovative as he can be, plus with a huge chip on his shoulder, you will be amazed. Again, don't bash RVD, there's nothing he can do when he has been shackled. Blame the WWE for trying to make Triple H look good.
do some damn research, some of you just make the most ignorant strings...
if all you have seen is wwe's rvd then thats YOUR FAULT. and if you think he sucks because your too goddamn lazy to find a good match or to broke to buy any ecw dvd or wwe on demand then its not rvd that sux my friend, its you.
if you call yourself a wrestling fan then youd know that the wwe doesnt let guys go out and wrestle their matches, never have and never will, they gotta do the super safe, same as every week match. they are told what to do and prevented from doing most of their move set. gotta make time for all the blah-blah-blah talking and ring entrances, what happened last week, what happened on SD!, what happened on ecw, the magazine, the website, etc...
if all you have seen is wwe's rvd then thats YOUR FAULT. and if you think he sucks because your too goddamn lazy to find a good match or to broke to buy any ecw dvd or wwe on demand then its not rvd that sux my friend, its you.
if you call yourself a wrestling fan then youd know that the wwe doesnt let guys go out and wrestle their matches, never have and never will, they gotta do the super safe, same as every week match. they are told what to do and prevented from doing most of their move set. gotta make time for all the blah-blah-blah talking and ring entrances, what happened last week, what happened on SD!, what happened on ecw, the magazine, the website, etc...
mortalkombatwwefan
Dark Match Jobber
I hate RVD's style. I think most of his reoccuring moves (rolling thunder and the 5 star frog splash) hurt him more than they do his opponents
MBelmont24
Would make Cena tap with the STF
Every WWE "Superstar" does the same old shit. Sad to say but every single member of that roster has certain moves they do in each match. It's wwe's wrestling philosophy. It'd be one thing to execute these moves sometime within a 20 min match like RVD did in ECW, but these 10 min matches where Carlito is getting all of his moves in, it's the same damn match with different opponents.
What i'm trying to say is in WWE, these wrestlers won't do anything other then their selected moveset, they will never change it up, or throw in any new big spots. RVD in ECW had his split-legged moonsault, the rolling senton splash, the van daminator, but they never made his matches, he did much more than just that.
Here are some of the movesets for example (in no order),
Cena: running shoulder block, belly to back sitdown powerbomb, fisherman's suplex, 5 knuckle shuffle,
Orton: Sleeper hold, stomping around the body, Jumping knee stomp, that inverted backbreaker/neckbreaker he does
Triple H: Spinebuster, stopping in front of the person bent over and dropping their face on his knee, jumping knee
Ticked Off Texan
Pre-Show Stalwart
RVD is a great wrestler he's probly the only guy that size that can do the things he does (rolling thunder)... if you saw any of his old ECW matches he was always going out of his way to put on a great match. So Mr. ECW is one of the hardest workers in the buisness today and will probly put himself into and early grave for the buisness.
bigbossman316
Occasional Pre-Show
I cant believe someone would come on here and trash RVD the guy is living legend. So many awesome moves to list. The guy is incredible he should have the ecw championship no doubt about it. If you dont believe me watch his greastest match IMO http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/...eo/x110yp_ecwrvd-v-jerry-lynnliving-dangerous
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