Hogan knows...nothing
- Thread starter Matisyahu
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chaingang83469
Dark Match Jobber
he just needs money. but it sucks cuz hes washed up
Wow..just...wow. You praise Foley and yet insult Hogan for having “wrinkled tits.”Quite an intriguing and pathetic argument. Foley hasn’t been in-shape for years. Tell him to take off his shirt and let’s see how great a bod he has. Hogan is 53 and still has quite a physique for all he’s been through. Show me any recent picture that has him out-of-shape? Dying to see.
And, if Hogan had done as you said, then the absolute biggest heel turn in history and the biggest and most famed stable in history would not have launched WCW to the top. For being so crappy, fans still were totally behind him and still are. Yet, when he went “Hollywood” in ‘96, it brought WCW to the top. You’re telling me the nWo would have gone as large as it had if the biggest babyface in history hadn’t been heading it?
I know the immense complexities of a corporation might befuddle you but if there isn’t a bottom or a middle or a top, then the corporation fails. McMahon made the matches. Hogan performed in them. It’s a two-part thing. Ya following? Try to keep up. Hogan had more charisma and presence and psychology than any wrestler of his time and his abilities put him over in AWA and allowed him to be the only man suited for the job of carrying an entire company. Vince marketed Hogan but Hogan made the marketing possible. You aren’t gonna market One Man Gang or the Brooklyn Brawler to mega-stardom no matter how much you try.
And Hogan was over in both the States and Japan which is not true of The Rock or Austin as neither were very technical and could not adapt. Hogna ALWAYS gave the fans what they wanted. In the United States, fans wanted his power wrestler and that’s what he showed. They wanted some technical skill in Japan and he delivered. Pleasing the fans is what wrestling is all about and that’s what Hogan has done each and every place he’s been. I hope you realize that you and the other IWC people who hate Hogan are outnumbered a billion-to-one and thus your opinion is entirely worthless. Hogan sells wherever he is and your pitiful insults will never even come close to blemishing his amazing career.
Well, don’t worry. Randy Orton’s pitiful future is safe. He’s really a jackass but if he keeps a head, he’ll be around for a while. But don’t even think that his career is worth as much as Hogan’s image. If Hogan came back and lost to everyone, what would winning over him be worth? Say Hogan lost to Lesnar, Angle, Michaels, Undertaker, Orton and the two times he lost to The Rock. What credibility is left? It be him making an appearance to please the fans and then losing. The fans come to see Hulk Hogan win... So, you give the fans what they want. He’s not a full-time worker and his image is worth more to the WWE than Orton’s or Cena’s or any of the current talent’s entire career because Hogan is the biggest thing in wrestling history. ALSO, Hogan is smart about who he loses to. He has tried to pass the torch a number of times: to Warrior, to Goldberg, to Lesnar and The Rock. What resounding legacies they ahve forged.............
And, in the end, Hogan will be the greatest legend in the business because of what he did for it. He will be the only megastar in a company that has had many superstars and your criticism will be as worthless as used toilet paper.
Hogan has an ego and unlike many, he’s entitled to it. He comes back to please the fans and I respect him for that. If you want to say he comes back for the money, that’s fine. It’s only your bias and it means nothing to me. It can’t be proven and that’s a very common fact in much of the anti-Hogan sentiment. Not a shred of evidence to support the insults hurled at him. It’s quite sickening.
greenbeast95
Occasional Pre-Show
You make decent arguements but I still disagree. You orignally complained of Hogan's technical skill, but argue that being a human stuntman like Foley is okay instead. Anybody can hurl themselves off a cage, fall on tacks, or get hit repeatedly with chairs. Yes, I said anybody. I'm not arguing that Hogan is the best technical wrestler, he's not. Foley is a good entertainer, a horrible wrestler, and a terrific stuntman, period. He's had to use four different characters to make a name for himself. Otherwise Nikkolas makes all my points for me. Thanks to him.
Jermberm said:
No way...
I don't know how old you are, maybe you are too young to really remember and appreciate Hogan. But the guys you mentioned on your list simply don't belong with a guy like Hogan.
Taker is the closest. But, he has never been WWF/WWE's biggest star. Always among the elite. Can always run with the ball in the short term, but has never been the guy the company built along.
Kane...He was a good worker in his prime, but really did nothing to alter the business.
Austin, Rock, and DX all did things that were never done before. They took the business to a higher level. But, if Hogan was not there first, the next step that these guys took would not have been possible.
Ok first off lets get off the Foley thing because at one time Foley was a fairly good wrestler but the fact is he was more worried about making his opponents look good than he was about making himself look good he has stated it many times. But to say that he needed 4 characters to get over is just fucking stupid.
Vince McMahon created Mankind because he didn't like Cactus Jack. Foley ran the course as him then they ran the vignettes about his childhood including the Dudelove crap so Vince pushed and pushed to bring out the Dude it was never to be taken seriously and it wasn't. Then they brought Cactus back on a few limited basises. But lets not forget by the time Cactus Jack returned Foley was getting bigger and slowing down considerably he clearly was no longer in his prime. So to say that he NEEDED to be this many characters is a damned insult.
Comparing Foley to Hogan is about the most ******ed thing I ever heard because Foley as much as I loved his matches and everything he sacrificed..will tell you straight up he shouldn't even be in the same sentence with Hogan as far as star power goes and what he has done for the biz.
Hogan as much as I hate to admit it revolutionized the business although not single handedly but I admit he did revolutionize the sport. Foley will be remembered in clips getting the shit kicked out of him....Hogan will be remembered in clips slamming Andre the Giant, starting the nWo, etc.
Foley will be remembered for falling off a steel cage....Hogan will be remembered beating King Kong Bundy in a steel cage...see the pattern?
Vince McMahon created Mankind because he didn't like Cactus Jack. Foley ran the course as him then they ran the vignettes about his childhood including the Dudelove crap so Vince pushed and pushed to bring out the Dude it was never to be taken seriously and it wasn't. Then they brought Cactus back on a few limited basises. But lets not forget by the time Cactus Jack returned Foley was getting bigger and slowing down considerably he clearly was no longer in his prime. So to say that he NEEDED to be this many characters is a damned insult.
Comparing Foley to Hogan is about the most ******ed thing I ever heard because Foley as much as I loved his matches and everything he sacrificed..will tell you straight up he shouldn't even be in the same sentence with Hogan as far as star power goes and what he has done for the biz.
Hogan as much as I hate to admit it revolutionized the business although not single handedly but I admit he did revolutionize the sport. Foley will be remembered in clips getting the shit kicked out of him....Hogan will be remembered in clips slamming Andre the Giant, starting the nWo, etc.
Foley will be remembered for falling off a steel cage....Hogan will be remembered beating King Kong Bundy in a steel cage...see the pattern?
Wrestlefan73
Occasional Pre-Show
You say "It's just a leg drop" but I'm willing to bet when the Rock was around you cheered every time he hit The Peoples Elbow. It is JUST an elbow drop..... and the Masterlock is JUST a Full Nelson. Or Jeff Hardys Swanton Bomb? That is just the back of his head barely hitting his opponet in the chest.
JACKASS: It's entertainment. Do you really think if Kurt Angle was torqing on somebodys ankle like that for that long that the ankle wouldn't break? Of course it would, look at an ankle lock when applied during a MMA fight, where it's real. They tap within seconds.
Whats next? Are you gonna bitch and moan because John Rambo got a bad wrap from that sheriff? Or the porn tape you watch every night, do you REALLY think a guy is that lucky?
Wrestlefan73
Occasional Pre-Show
tjhere said:
Idiot, have you ever watched RvD wrestle anytime within the past seven or eight years? He does the EXACT same thing. It's called entertainment. What kind of story would it be if good defeats evil EVERY single time. As a matter of fact, watch ANY Wrestlemania, and see if the majority of matches are exactly like that. The "good guy" will get beat down only to prevail and whoop the "bad guy" as soon as the fans start to cheer him; to give him the "energy" needed to win.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
Yes, and Foley doesn't spend his days conjoined to a tanning bed and showing up on PPV to whip out his stuff to the crowd. For all the juice he's cycled, Hogan better be in good shape. My argument revolved around what each does in terms of effort to get their matches/characters over. You enjoy Hogan's schtick? Fine. Knock yourself out. Say your prayers while you're at it. Foley is a very ugly dude, don't get me wrong. I, however, put much more stake in what he does as he sacrificed life and limb numerous times to put his matches over, and even though he was slow and unathletic compared to most guys, his last matches were still better than anything Hogan has put out in over a decade. Hogan's stuff worked when I was five. Even when the NWO came out, he was still seen as being a cornball. He removed the realistic credibitlity the faction could've had.
The controversy from the entire incident had to do with Hall and Nash leaving WWF. Nitro had begun to attract new viewers during that time because of those two, as Hogan was off making Oscar-worthy movies. The swerve worked, yes. We know that. The problem was that they used him as the focal point of the group when he couldn't wrestle. He was a on-air personality who looked more like Nash and Hall's dad as opposed to one of their running mates. The belt was left on him for too long and other, better wrestlers (even Nash) could've ran with the torch and been fully prepared for the upscale workrate of Vince's product. Compare the main-events on average in WWF to WCW in 1997. WCW's were typically a farce because Hogan was almost always involved. This is what allowed guys like Austin to get over and eventually for WWF to claw their way back on top. By the time WCW figured out how bad they f***ed up in doing this, it was far too late. Notice the difference in pops that The Black and White got against the Wolfpac? Hogan was reviled, and it wasn't just because he was a heel. Even when the NWO was fresh he was still booed, whereas his cohorts were worshipped.
And there were numerous other wrestlers who could've filled Hogan's spot in the long run, but they kept bleeding Hullkamania dry until it was beyond passe' and putting him in feuds with fat guys to bodyslam. McMahon painted himself into a corner instead of planning for the future with credible athletes to take over. Vince's big contingency plan when he finally realized his star lost its luster? Jim Helwig. Astounding.
And how much did The Rock or Austin even wrestle in Japan compared to Hogan? Where's the precedent? How many tours did Rock do with NJPW? AJPW? It's fine that a lot of other people agree he's awesome. They buy the gimmick, and that's gravy for them. I loved it when I was a little kid, too. The funny thing is that Hogan was deemed corny long before the NWO, so saying he's always "pleased" the fans wherever he went is bunk. The whole reason for WCW failing is his stranglehold onto a title he had zero business wearing. The majority can have Hogan. I'll have logic and an appreciation for relevant talent, not old hacks living on past merits. I'm not saying he's the worst wrestler ever, or something like that. He was great...before 1990. His amazing career as far as I'm concerned concluded at the Toronto Skydome. Anything after that in the ring was a gigantic example of one person living in denial with regards to what they could do inside the ring anymore and not hanging it up when they should.
I make no assumptions as to Randy's character. He's probably a collossal prick. I speak in terms of his ability and usefulness to the company. That's just the f***ing point! Hogan doesn't need to come back. He's in the Hall of Fame for crissakes. Let him stay there. And tell me what credibility is left in watching an old man stumble around the ring with someone else who works five speeds ahead of him in a lousy match that disrespects the once proud legacy he made? To me, it's none. The decision to pass the torch to Warrior wasn't exactly something Hogan was jumping for joy about as I've read his book and the knocks he had for the Ultimate Looney. McMahon and pretty much everyone else didn't like Helwig, but he saw $$$ so that's how the book went down. Goldberg was pretty much the same thing when Bischoff and friends put all their eggs in one basket through late '97 through '98 with Bill's "streak." The title change was a cheap ratings ploy to try and curb momentum from a show that was kicking their ass. For Lesnar to lose to Hogan would be the dumbest thing in history. Look, we know wrestling is fake. Hogan doesn't and never did have the physical tools to make a believable challenge to Lesnar. The kid's a freak of nature with legit shooter skills and the strength and speed of a goddamn lion. Hogan beating him would be an insult to everything based around any inclination of logic within the industry considering he was the youngest to wear the strap at the time. The Rock is actually doing what Hogan wanted to do...parley his wrestling career into successful movies. McMahon also made the smart move in doing this as The Rock physically outgunned Hogan by a factor of three and was just as good of an entertainer as Hogan ever was, the difference being him finding his niche' after Stone Cold found his own. McMahon also like initially having his hand in The People's Cookie Jar with relation to Dwayne's initial movie profits.
Maybe. But that's fine with me, as I obviously have standards for what entertains me and you don't. Next time Hogan stumbles down the aisle and embarrasses himself and helps to drag any sort of establishable credibility with regards to WWE television, remember me.
My bias? He clears a pretty penny for each appearance, for sure. His ego is what keeps him coming back. His body is destitute with regards to his joints and he'll be walking on crutches in about ten years, but he can't not be in the spotlight. Not a shred of evidence, eh? Try standards. Maybe taste? Maybe respect for a special run that was tarnished by an overreaching ego and a departure of talent? Terry also refers to himself by his stage name whilst at home. If that's not egomaniacal, someone better wake me up because I'm trapped in The Matrix.
Idiot?! you dont have to be a dick about it bro I see your point and yeah you are right a lot of matches are like that but to say majority of the matches are is an exaggeration. The whole feeding off the fans thing isn't as common as it used to be. I fail to see any match where Austin, The Rock, Undertaker, etc. get owned nearly the whole match to all the sudden squeak out a cheesy ass win. Hogan wrote that bit. And RVD never even wins matches anymore so...yeah great point doushe bag.
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