HHH vs. Undertaker: the Formula for a Classic Match

[WhyTravisFelt]

Let me preface by saying it's hard to talk about something like this without criticizing, at least to some degree, some of the best Wrestlemania matches, namely the Undertaker-Michaels matches of WM25 and WM26.

I think all of in the IWC already have had this thought, or at least an inkling, that there is a formula to what makes a classic Mania match and that a certain standard has been set not entirely different than say a movie making an Oscar bid relies on a particular formula of plot, subject matter, heartfelt, if not intentionally exaggerated, melodramatics.

Amongst other problems with the HHH-Undertaker match (both men noticeably showing their age, not being able to make up for one anothers weaknesses, various in-ring miscues/miscommunication, overall sloppiness in move execution, the many instances when it was obvious, most particularly for HHH, that there was confusion in unprepared improvising for whatever reason) I think was the overwhelming transparency in the "formula for a classic match." Don't get me wrong, the "formula for a classic match" is fine and works great and is usually spiced up with a few things that make it truly stand out, for example the past two Undertaker-Michaels matches and even going back to the various Austin/Rock/HHH/Michaels combinations through the years.

Going back to the the Oscars simile, this match seemed alot like "The King's Speech" (not an indirect comparison of quality) in that, no matter how much any critic liked the movie they all had the same response of "here's a movie that is obviously tailor-made towards trying to win an Academy Award" and while that seems like a perfectly reasonable and logical concept, it doesn't change the fact of how transparent the formula was.

The biggest problem I think with this match, and maybe it's biggest upside for future WM events and changing the public perspective on what constitutes a "classic Mania match", is that it was boiled down to it's most basic form: Early match finishers designed to bring the fan to the edge of their seats because they have now opened up the floodgate of "now, you don't know where the match can go from here" which probably used to be the truth, but now begs the answer to the question "yeah, I do, a whole lot more finishers that might as well be snapmares with long pauses and two-counts in between." Paired with this is the customary overexaggerated melodramatic pauses in action where both wrestlers do their best to appear exhausted which they excel at like any great actor and, putting my bias against HHH aside, I will say that Undertaker and Triple H are in-ring actors comparable to any academy award winner in what they can invoke from the audience while they are in the ring. Also, while it was definitely one of the brighter spots in the match, HHH hitting Taker with the Tombstone to the intelligent wrestling afficionado is definite lampshading (almost, dare i say it, lampooning) other classic matches where the wrestlers trade finishers (HHH gets pedigreed, Austin gets stunned, Rock gets Rock Bottomed, Angle gets angle/olympic slammed etc.)

I think in the long run, this is a good thing. While this made for a pretty subpar match as far as what was expected, I think revealing the formula in its most basic form maybe makes us expect something more, or at least different, out of what we appreciate from now on. On the other hand, I got dollars to donuts that at some point at WM28 we'll see at least a half dozen AAs and Rock Bottoms and at least one of them, if not both, being done by the other guy. There will also be a duel of People's Elbows and Five Knuckle Shuffles, but that goes without saying and it will still be a decent match, but I think in the long run, eventually, what we will consider genuine classics might involve a little more creativity. In fact, hopefully, that means eventually we'll actually get Daniel Bryan on the ****ing card.

Please share your thoughts. I hope we can all keep this civil despite the fact that the subject matter clearly evokes strong opinions.

 

[HellBoundPower]

I can see where you're coming from with this. The match looked like they were pulling out all the stops to make it match of the night, to make it an epic Wrestlemania match. But the execution of the match didn't live up to the hype. While I liked the match much better than it seems most of the people on these forums did, I still saw holes in it as well. From the length of the match, to the amount of finishers used, there were definitely things that could have been changed and improved on.

My biggest problem with this match is that both men, especially Taker, completely threw the concept of their finisher being a FINISHER out the window. And while there have been plenty of epic 'Mania matches in the past that have used that same formula, these two over did it to the point that it just seemed completely unrealistic. I know that it was symbolic of the Undertaker's character's absolute refusal to lose at Wrestlemania, but I think it actually took away from the match. Also, I'm aware that they were selling the injuries and fatigue that they suffered while beating on each other, but there was just too much time spent on the ground with no action. The match lasted 5-10 minutes longer than it needed too. They could have easily cut a few minutes off to have time for Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus. It just dragged a little too much in my opinion.

But there were also some good points in the match. Some of the spots were really good, like ramming through the "Cole Mine", and the Spinebuster through the table. Even the chair shot to the head, which they both got a fine for, added to the match. It showed that both men were relentless, and would pull out all the stops to be victorious. I liked the submission victory, as it made it look like the Undertaker got lucky in locking in the submission, barely escaping the match with the Streak intact. The storytelling in the match was great. Both men acted to perfection. It was definitely the best match of the night, with the most history, despite the slow build up.

All in all, I think it was a learning experience. I think people will look back at it, as the original poster said, and see that it's the formula for a classic match, albeit not executed as well as it could be. I just think that if you're going to throw finishers at each other to kick out of, that you should limit the amount. It's okay to kick out of a finisher or two EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE, but don't jeopardize the legitimacy of the finish by throwing it out the window. Other than those few gripes, I think it was a good match.

 

[blackmetalbuick]

Yeah, as much as I enjoyed the match, the same things bothered me about it. This formula for WM matches is way too obvious these days. Am I really supposed to get on the edge of my seat when I see the first two or three finishers being performed? Well, I don't. Watching it at my friend's house, we just sat there calling out the obvious moments. HHH stands over Taker for the 10 punches in the corner, you know Taker is going to reach up and go for the Last Ride, etc. At least the HBK/Taker matches took longer to get to this point. HHH/Taker brawled for a few minutes and then immediately brought out the finishers and the kickouts.

They've got to come up with a better way to make things suspenseful and dramatic. I think the most surprising thing they could possibly do at the next WM is to have a big match be ended with ONE finisher and a successful 3 count.

 

[MetalMan]

I respect that you took your time and posed the question very well and obviously want this to be a civil conversation among us rasslin' fans

With that said, I have to ask everybody. If we would have saw this same match 2 years ago @ Mania, would we be so er....picky (sorry to offend anyone). After Taker vs Shawn 1 & 2, we may have set some expectations to unreachable goals. Taker is obviously near the end of his amazing, 20+ year career and HHH is also reaching the "twilight of his career". The majority of us could not do what Taker and HHH accomplished on Sunday! But, I do understand your point very well, as the match did seem weak at points. And the comment about how WWE was already seemingly making this match of the year was/is very true, as they had high expectations too for this match. Do consider the pressure, age, and more upon judging this amazing showdown between 2 icons.

With that said, I felt the match was superp and might all of my expectations. The spots, especially Taker's dive, were all very impressive and very dangerous. Yeah, they wasted time on the mat, maybe a bit too much, but I thought that resulted in great storytelling and thought they kicked out of each others' finishers, they were still down afterwards. The idea of having HHH dominate most of the match was different and quite good, as in several parts I felt HHH might actually win! The chairshot were brutal and quite stiff, as I marked out for the chairshot to the head. Watching this as a regualr match, I would still rate this match a solid 4+ STARS, as the match was really damn good, no matter what you obnozious smarks might say. Overall considering these mens' age and pressure upon their soldiers, I rate this match 5 STARS.

Thanks for reading, Im only 15, but I was very passionate about this match![/U

 

[Rmageddon]

You know, it's tough for me to see true greatness in this match.

I highly anticipated it, but to me it looked a lot like Taker was just out matched by HHH.

The game dug into his roots and bashed The Undertaker mercilessly, hitting him with everything except his fabled sledgehammer. Only to get caught in a move Undertaker had no business pulling off.

I found myself constantly questioned why HHH wouldn't pin Undertaker. What was he going for? Why wouldn't he just roll him over after all the chair shots, and three pedigrees and a tombstone was it?

Maybe I was missing the point as I went from being a die hard wrestling fan to merely a casual fan. I do know this story had almost zero build up, so maybe I missed something along the way that would make HHH reluctant to go for the pin.

I saw the thing with Shawn Michaels get thrown to the wind and more or less add nothing to the mix. So I don't know.

All I know, is that I cringed when I saw HHH take his bump off the announce table, and again when Taker dove over the ropes.

I don't know think it was worth having the big boys do that kinda thing in the ring. I would expect it from the high flyers who can be more than impressive and not kill themselves quite as much at the same time.

Just my two cents.

 

[Cena's #1 Fan]

I'm gonna throw my two cents, hell i'm gonna throw a whole damn dollar here.

As a fan of the deadman, i was on the edge of my seat after the first pedigree. And add two more in there with a tombstone? My heart stopped like six times in that match and it damn near made me start smoking again.

So if this wasn't a "classic" match so to speak, I know for a fact it was the BEST match on the card. Disagree? well i don't give a FU.

If your opinion of a classic match has anything to do with these youth movement guys, or john cena for that matter then i condemn you to hell because you are an idiot if that is the case.

This was a great match.

Keep in mind with these guys "showing their age"- before they even stated finishers, hhh got thrown throught the steps, he got back dropped off the table, taker got thrown hard into the barracade, taker got drove through the "cole mine", taker got spinebusted through a table, then above all else, taker rose to the mania accasion and dove out of the top rope.

Now, on to the finishers. taker hit a chokeslam, hhh hit the pedigree. so after the finishers and all that listed above, you expect these guys to just jump up and run around like fresh little 22 year olds? NO. They sold everything perfectly, damnit it was NO HOLDS BARRED MATCH. I'm sorry these guys are great at what they do and aren't like cena, who oversells everything then comes back like he wasn't even touched, or orton who cannot sell that knee for shit, he walked with NO LIMP AT MANIA. NO LIMP AT RAW THE NEXT NIGHT. HELL HE WAS RUNNING AROUND, and he even f'd up when punk chopped blocked his left leg and he started grabbing his right. that's poor execution in my book.

My hat is off to both the deadman and hhh. they told an awesome story in the ring. some of the best spots in a long time. we saw a head chair shot. taker gave it his all even not being 100 percent and hhh sold taker to be the phenom more than anyone ever has. that should be match of the year.

i don't care if you liked it or not, i did, AND I'LL BE DAMNED THE LIVE 71,617 DID TOO. ON THEIR FEET THE WHOLE TIME, CLAPPING, CHANTING, AND CHEERING, CHANTING THIS IS AWESOME!!!!!

go back and watch every other match and it was no comparrison. not even close.

There's my dollar, now add another and you can buy that two buck trash bag hoe!!!