Herman Cain

[jmt225]

He's 15, Harthan. Blame the educational system, not the kids.

Deadman, The Patriot Act is simply a law that makes it easier for the government to tap into people's phones and computers and shit like that.

 

[Taker Sucks]

Oh ok. And very funny Harthan.

 

[X]

No offense, X, but from what I have seen, the American two party system is far more embarrassing than the constitutional monarchy that Great Britain still employs has even been. And the Patriot Act trumphs anything Big Brotherish that might exist this side of the Pond.

I'd firmly disagree my good friend. While our party system is fundamentally flawed and I actually said just that earlier in this thread, we haven't reached the militant authoritarian zenith that it seems the UK has come to because of the growing youth crime and immigration problems in your nation. Installing video cameras on every street corner, enacting a national ID system and the slow elimination of more and more personal and individual rights. I'm not expert on UK politics and wouldn't claim to be, but from my understanding of recent events in the UK political system over the last decade, is this not where the UK has headed? More and more enactment of police-state policies in the name of public safety, trading away civil and individual rights for them? I'm probably being melodramatic and I'd gladly like to hear any rebuttal from you on the matter because you're one of the smartest fellows here and I'd genuinely be interested in hearing your take on things.

Trust me, I loathe the Patriot ACT and all of it's horrible violations of individual rights. But right now our country is too busy in the economic turmoil for people to even be worried about that, and so long as we've got relatively moderate Democrats in public office and the Presidency, I don't think they're going to expand and re-inforce the Patriot Act to the militant degree that George W. Bush's initial task-force did. Trust me, we've got boatloads of really fucked up problems with our own government here in the US, don't get me wrong, I just personally prefer to deal with the issues relevant in our nation rather than emigrate to the UK and deal with the more disturbing issues of the growing police state. Economic and political issues are one thing, but once you start spying on everyone in your country in full view of the public with unabashed fervor and don't even attempt to hide it, that scares the everloving shit out of me and sends my mind into some gut-reaction 1984 scenarios.

Of course, I could be totally wrong about all of these things because of my unfamiliarity with the tangible local politics of the UK as I don't actually live there myself, and if I am, please, educate me kind scholarly ally! That's just my take on things though in my own idealistic, misty-eyed romantic guile of a worldview.

 

[The Crock]

"Some stay dry, others feel the pain of Herman Cain."

 

[Coco]

Well now you're just baiting Doc.

 

[Барбоса]

we haven't reached the militant authoritarian zenith that it seems the UK has come to because of the growing youth crime and immigration problems in your nation.

Militant authoritarianism? The British could not or would not (either would seem to prove my point I think) get enough police on the streets to deal with the recent rioters and looters.

Installing video cameras on every street corner

Those cameras are not solely government initiatives and have many benefits in fighting and punishing crime.

enacting a national ID system

Not going to happen and even if it did it would not infringe on an individual's privacy any more than a passport does as most of the information it would contain the government already has access to. I find the argument of "invasion of privacy" to be the biggest mass overreaction all across the globe.

and the slow elimination of more and more personal and individual rights.

The only thing I can remotely attribute to this is the UK's involvement in the EU which does seem to send down some strange dictats from time to time but certainly no stranger than the US is used to in its individual states and commonwealths.

I'm not expert on UK politics and wouldn't claim to be

Neither am or would I. Personally, I have little interest in politics as very little actual politics takes place (particularly in the Northern Ireland Assembly - just think what it would be like to have the US Senate or Congress full the worst kind of Republicans - sectarian, racist bigots on both sides)

but from my understanding of recent events in the UK political system over the last decade, is this not where the UK has headed? More and more enactment of police-state policies in the name of public safety, trading away civil and individual rights for them?

I stick by the idea that you are massively overreacting as regards the militant authoritarianism exhibited by Britain. Then again because I live in Northern Ireland which is detached enough from mainland Britain to have an entirely different set of issues to deal with as well as being as apolitical as I am could easily make me uninformed. I am sure that many of the other members here that live in different parts of the UK - England, Scotland and Wales - might have a different slant on UK politics although I would be shocked if it came anywhere near militant authoritarianism.

 

[X]

The very act of installing public cameras on every street corner, no matter what endgame they are seeking, is unjustified. I don't give a fuck if it's conducive to public safety and cracking down on crime, it still gives the government a perfectly valid excuse to spy on you any time they please for whatever reason they want to, written off as "investigating crime" when they really mean "investigating political dissidents". It's one step away from COINTELPRO Part Deux man. It's an indicator to me that the UK's government isn't too far off from becoming a system that totally caters to the wealthy and the police/military, sacrificing some poor "criminals" individual rights in the name of public safety and goodwill. Again, I'm being melodramatic here, but that's generally how I feel about public surveillance like that, it's as they say a "slippery slope". Am I overreacting? Perhaps. I'd rather overreact then be apathetic though, because at the very least I know my intentions are good. Can you honestly say that you trust your government's intentions in this day and age? I sure as fuck don't trust the US government, let alone a foreign one.

Again, I'm being melodramatic admittedly, but it's the only tool I know how to use to instill some kind of response from the usually dulled, numb, apathetic masses, even if it's just a couple of fifteen year old wrestling fans on an internet forum.

Okay, ideological ranting over, I promise. Off to drinking and eating dinner with the fam now, but I'm enjoying this conversation very much so Barby babe.

 

[Remix]

Considering that your cell phone can tell someone who knows where to look your location to within about 50 ft I don't really think that CCTV is the most pressing issue if you're worried about privacy X.

 

[Барбоса]

totally caters to the wealthy and the police/military

Perhaps both of us are afflicted by an outsider's perspective but to me this is a far more accurate description of the US government than that of the UK. Sure the wealthy have influence in the UK through political contributions and politics is still much of a rich man's game but I do not think that they are as influential as the corporations are in the US. The police would seem to have no political agenda while the UK military is slowly being decommissioned.

Although you might say that the UK versions are better at hiding their involvement?

sacrificing some poor "criminals" individual rights in the name of public safety and goodwill.

Personally, I see it as going the completely opposite direction - the criminal and protestor is protected more by the law than the ordinary pleb.

Can you honestly say that you trust your government's intentions in this day and age? I sure as fuck don't trust the US government, let alone a foreign one.

Of course the UK government is infected with its fair share of idiots, but rarely have I doubted its intentions. That is almost certainly a mix of naivety and apathy on my part.

 

[Moon Knight]

He makes me sick, his 999 plan is a complete joke. Both parties suck in different ways, rather it be on the economy or immigration neither get it completely right. We are screwed no matter who wins, so vote for the person who will be more gentle.

 

[TSG]

We need to elect a leader, not a cardboard cut-out liberal or conservative, a real person who uses logic and reason as opposed to towing the party line. I don't know who he or she is or if they're out there, but please, please, make yourself heard because I'm getting tired of all of these cons in Washington.

All jokes aside, yeah, politicians suck.

 

[The Bearded One]

He makes me sick, his 999 plan is a complete joke. Both parties suck in different ways, rather it be on the economy or immigration neither get it completely right. We are screwed no matter who wins, so vote for the person who will be more gentle.

Or just don't vote at all. If nobody is worth my vote, why should I waste my time to do it?

 

[Taker Sucks]

Best President Ever. Only Obama was better.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

A Morman isn't getting voted into office, bro, especially one as fickle as Romney is. Obama won't have to say anything about Mormonism during the campaign... it'll always be the elephant in the room whenever Romney's presence is being felt.

Besides, when Romney and Cain are the Republicans best choices... I mean, could the party be more in shambles at this point? Jesus Christ almighty.

Romney's record speaks for itself; he's a results-oriented guy, something that this country, if we're to believe political pundits, wants more than anything at this point in time. Furthermore, Romney's really only "fickle" on social issues that he's trying to seem more conservative on now that he's trying to cater to the far-right Republican bloc. But this is all a moot point since disaffected moderates/independents won't support Obama this time around (they'll flock to Romney if he gets the nomination) and Tea Party members would rather vote in JFK's corpse than ever give Obama a second term.

 

[Moon Knight]

Or just don't vote at all. If nobody is worth my vote, why should I waste my time to do it?

This is why we keep getting garbage. If sane people don't vote only the insane get in power, none may be worth your vote but you can at least keep the worst out. I may hate Obama, but having someone like Herman Cain in would be way worse...just slow the bleeding and show their is a bloc for common sense. Obama doesn't have any, but at least he isn't as bad as Cain. Remember, don't vote and the Republicans is what you get. Got nobody to vote for, vote against somebody else. Change will never happen if you don't force it, write in somebody, vote third part..do something.