I called it back in July. CM Punk DOESNT HAVE IT. I said he wouldn't even be a big draw a year from now and would be lucky to have a title match at 'Mania. He's already stale and it's been 2 months. I can't stand him. And by the looks of it, I'm not the only one. Anyone on this board that thinks CM Punk cuts better promos than The Rock cannot be older than the age of 14. It's night and day. The Rock didn't cut a boring promo from 1998 to 2004. He came back last February and everyone had a hard on....Someone said The Rock didn't re-package himself upon his return and he's the same nostalgia act. He doesn't need to repackage himself. He's the biggest star in the company and he shows up once every 4 months. It was the second highest selling Mania ever via PPV and all he did was HOST the show. Punk can't even get a rating above 3 on free TV. The shows are now built around him. The WWE will be awesome I'm sure from November thru Mania and it will be because of The Rock. CM PUNK CANNOT carry a show. Clearly, cannot. It's been 2 months and he's already fizzling out. I'm so tired of hearing about his goddamn ice cream bars. His big thing is telling guys like Nash that they were relevant 15 years ago. At least they were relevant. Seems to me that Punk has no respect for the past and I can't help but think that 90% of the stuff that comes out of his mouth, while in character, is how he really feels. He's just getting away with it by hiding behind the gimmick. He's a douche.
Here's My Thing With Chick Magnet Punk
- Thread starter BillAlfonso
- Start date
BillAlfonso
Getting Noticed By Management
Wow, dick rider much? See how easy it is to attack someone personally over the internet when you'll never meet each other to settle the insult, jackass?
Anyway, first of all, martial arts are over rated in actual street fights, why do you think Bruce Lee developed Jeet Kune Do. What if you boxed but the guy you fought grabbed you? What if you used Muai Thai but the guy you fought's style was the perfect counter? He pulled the best and most useful from all the other arts and combined them into his, he had great respect for every style just found them impractical.
Second, Punk is too small to legitimately defeat bigger stronger guys especially when he isn't as fast as HBK is. Why do you think the legit combat sports like MMA, boxing, and amateur wrestling have weight classes? Anderson Silva, for my money, is the best fighter in the world but I wouldn't throw him in the ring against Brock Lesnar or even Frank Mir, they'd kill him unless they got careless and he can score an early knock out. I know there are cases where you have Jericho beating Goldberg or Booker T beating Batista in actual scuffles in the back but Goldberg can't fight from the way Jericho described and Booker T had enough size on him to take on Batista.
Yeah but wasn't there a report about their ratings just recently on this site about how much they suck? That's neither here nor there though since I never study their ratings during football season seeing as they have no choice but to be swept up under the NFL's power.
HHH said something to that effect in an interview, the reason that a lot of this is so big is that they've scaled everything back in the recent years. He wasn't trying to bury the angle from the sense I got just stating his opinion. He was like everyone is making a big deal that he said "ass" but they said it every other word ten years ago.
The reason he comes off as whiny is that he doesn't really do anything about it, I pointed out that the similarities between he and Austin end because Austin did more about his situation, he fucked with people until they gave him chance. Punk just says xyz and that's it.
First, I said that I was on Punk's side during the situation with The Undertaker because I hate shit like that myself but he should've been smarter about it. Fuck the business, Mark Calaway the man has been in the company a lot longer than Phillip Brooks and has been one of the flagships for 20 years, he's been there through the Hogan era with Hogan/Savage/Warrior, The New Generation with Bret/HBK/Diesel, The Attitude Era with Austin/The Rock/Foley and today. How hard was it to just tell The Undertaker what he wanted to hear and just do what you wanted anyway? I do it all the time and what did The Undertaker tell him? Dress more appropriately at official events on the business side because you represent the company now, that's it. Do we see how Cena dresses at those events since Punk said that Cena doesn't have to?
Second, I'm stating my opinion, no one said fact. Most of this forum is a motherfucker stating their opinions, why is it that I'm saying something against what most of the people here think that it becomes an issue. I don't mind the guys coming in to argue for Punk, but get real.
Third, read what I write before you respond. I never said he wasn't good on the mic, I said isn't that good. He's better than most today but The Rock will fuck him up if they get to cutting promos together. Just look at how HHH was at least able to stand toe to toe and he was probably the weakest of the Attitude Era's top guys promo-wise.
First, I already admitted I fucked up on the MVP point.
Second, I'd love for him to use the Anaconda Vise as his actual finisher, the GTS just looks bad to me especially since he's too small to do it believably against a heavyweight and make it look good.
Third, the moment The Rock stepped into the ring, I said that when I first said that. Also, he's gone because he's doing his day job, he's not a full time performer.
Fourth, you can't believe that The Rock won't address Punk when he comes back. Even for a second.
Fifth, Vince bought WCW because the then WWF defeated them in the ratings. Add the inner turmoil of their parent company, AOL Time Warner, to the reduced value and Vince was able to swoop in for $6 Million I believe it was.
My rant's full of bullshit like his aren't, at least I'm not passing it off as I'm doing something of substance to be praised for. Most rants are full of bullshit and I wasn't ranting, I was stating an opinion. If you didn't like it, you didn't have to respond, shocking, I know. Also, thank you for proving my point on how fickle the internet crowd really is, at least Cena's fans are loyal to the man.
Shit, I forgot, The Rock is tied with the Mr. McMahon character because both characters were tied to Austin's. Austin was the centerpiece at his height, Mr. McMahon gave Austin something to do in rebelling against him and The Rock gave him a rival to fight. The Rock didn't surpass Austin until the millenium hit and Austin started to get pissy and "took his ball and went home" leave The Rock to carry the company. Hm, Austin walked out on his contract twice and refused to put a guy like Brock Lesnar over when The Rock didn't leave until his contract was over and put over tons of guys that squandered it later. How come no one talks about that?
It looks like someone is mad because cm punk called the rock out for what he is. He's a phony. Everyone heard him say "i'm home", and he made everyone think he was coming back and he didn't. And you talk about ratings, sure the rock came back and ratings bumped up maybe .3, but then they fell after the people saw him and said ok that was nice. Thats one show or two that he gave a little bump, after that he might as well be santino. And then you talk about his great wrestlemania draw. Thats bullshit. If anyone deserves credit for it then its snooki. I beleive that the rock has never drawn over a million before, so why would he be able to here without wrestling, because he didn't, snooki did it.
Then you talk about cm punk not being as good as the rock on the mic. Thats bullshit. All the rock does is say where hes going to shove something. He never has been able to progress a storyline with his mic work. Thats why he has always needed someone else to carry the storyline for him. And this is coming from a 19 year old, who has been watching since before anyone knew of rocky maivia.
And while your worried about the past, and basically saying "oh the brash young punk needs to stop talking about legends like their trash" (i've heard others say it), your not looking at the future. Cm Punk realy has made Vince and the rest of the wwe look at their product and try to change it. Since Punk has made that speech at the top of the stage, the wwe has been a million times better. They have had better matches, better fueds, the tag team, divas, and intecontinental divisions are starting to get healthier. They put zack ryder on tv. They have had two great ppv's. People just always find something to complain about.
Like oh the ratings aren't up. Well MITB sold 20% more this year. CM punk is acting like he is the best in the world. Well he pretty much is. Or why isn't punk fighting for the wwe title. Because he is fighting the coo which is bigger than fighting for the wwe title.
The fuck...? You dumbass why the fuck would millions of people pay $60-$70 to see a 4 foot person in a WRESTLING ring?
Your really ******ed for thinking that, and makes me wonder whether you really are a '19 year old'...If you are then you have a brain of a 10 year old..
Take all the credit away from The Rock, and then just say 'Snooki did it'...Once again you dumbfuck, they can already see her on free tv so why the fuck would they pay so much for the same person?
And since your brain is so fucked up by masterbating to Snooki, The Rock did draw a million buys in WM 17.....Along with Austin.
You are one ******ed fuck.
In my opinion CM Punk is the best thing going for the WWE right now. Sure his shoot promos are worked shoots any fan with a half a brain knows that. Even still the fact that he's saying things that until now have been taboo. Is something new and exciting and beats the hell out of the same boring promos that we've been used to. I'm very intrigued to see how they go with his current gimmick and storyline with HHH. They way it looks now is that they are setting up a HHH heel turn and a full Punk anti hero face turn. In an updated McMahon Austin boss vs employee feud. Many feel WWE will never let Punk become a huge star. They may be right but HHH doesn't work angles and matches very often anymore. So they must see more in him than most people think, plus how many people have beat Cena in two straight PPV matches.
To touch on a few thing the OP said The Rock was the greatest wrestler on the mic ever and probably would be again. However he's not an active member of the WWE he's only made a handful of appearances in the last year. Once Wrestlemania 28 is over he may be gone for good or another 7 years. He's not really disrespecting any legend that came before him that's just his gimmick. I didn't find it disrespectful when he came out wearing a SCSA shirt. I damn sure respected the hell out of him for wearing trunks as a tribute to Randy Savage right after he passed away no one else did anything close to that.
To touch on a few thing the OP said The Rock was the greatest wrestler on the mic ever and probably would be again. However he's not an active member of the WWE he's only made a handful of appearances in the last year. Once Wrestlemania 28 is over he may be gone for good or another 7 years. He's not really disrespecting any legend that came before him that's just his gimmick. I didn't find it disrespectful when he came out wearing a SCSA shirt. I damn sure respected the hell out of him for wearing trunks as a tribute to Randy Savage right after he passed away no one else did anything close to that.
BillAlfonso
Getting Noticed By Management
Snooki? Word?
Paying not attention to the horrible little orange woman, weren't you like 4 when Rocky Maivia debuted. So, you remember shit from when you were like 3? I'm just asking because I don't know anyone that remember shit that early in their lives. Hell, my first clear pro wrestling memories were Sting being kick out of The Horsemen and Hulk Hogan v The Ultimate Warrior and I was like 5 at the time I think. Maybe four for the Sting/Horsemen angle.
Yeah, but he's in interviews and shit going at The Rock. He may be gone for 7 years but, if he is, you could say that it's the fault of the bitch made superstars of today like Randy Orton and Punk talking shit about him in interviews on personal matters instead of coming to him with it and fans like the internet fans who think they're cool for bashing him and Cena.
BillAlfonso
Getting Noticed By Management
Yes, that does happen quite a bit here as I have already pointed out. Are you adding anything else to the topic?
He is getting the pointed out and I don't hate him, I just don't think he's that good. He doesn't advance his angle, he just pops off to people who didn't respond really until now. He's not as good as an in ring worker as everyone thinks. I mean, what do you think the big deal is about him?
First, good job on ignoring most of my post and spinning my words.
Now let's get real, people are annoyed because you made a topic about how he is good but not that good. Why should people care? and that's why they are annoyed.
for some of us he is the best thing going in the world of wrestling at the moment and for you he isn't, good but why do you feel the need to burst everyone's bubble if you don't hate him? It's because something is eating you inside, maybe the fact that he dishe the Rock, like others pointed.
I don't know you so I won't start saying you are x kind of guy o y kind of guy but to me your topic is the same as if your friend had a crush on a girl and he was really happy only for you to tell him, she is nice looking, but no beautiful. I mean why do you need to do that? What's the need for it? You created a topic so people can say you are right he is not that good and other saying you are wrong he is that good. I know all topic are meant for debate but some can be smart debate and others threads seem like they just want to create controversy on something that is hot at the moment and that's how I am seeing it.
I HATE Kofi Kingston, but people like him, do you see me starting thread about how I hate Kofi to be reassured by others in my opinions?
Well that's my opinion on that and that's what I meant in the first post.
CM Punk and Phil Brooks, both the character and the man behind the character, live for the people who want to view wrestling beyond what it is. The problem with wrestling is that it's cross between sports and entertainment. Before the internet was out, and before wrestling was exposed as scripted, it was a great product. Now in this current age, people just read results the next day, or read the spoilers before the event. No big return can ever be a surprise. Almost everyone on sites like this is guilty of not viewing wrestling as a television show and business, but as a popularity contest.
The majority of the world I feel does not care if someone can do 50 some moves. They'd rather see one stunner, rock bottom, leg drop, sweet chin music, then 50 irrelevant moves. The reason things get repeated is because people like seeing them. Sure, routines get stale to those who analyze the product. The problem is Punk plays to those who analyze the product, not those who just try to enjoy. No one knew who John Laurinaitis was (and what his job was) unless they were an internet fan. No one knows about Ring of Honor or New Japan or, hell, even TNA unless they're an internet fan. You talk to people on the street, there's WWF (yea, that's how outdated wrestling has become) or it doesn't exist.
The Rock's mic routine can be predictable, but it never gets old seeing Michael Cole put in his place. It wasn't old hearing him make fun of Cena with his Fruity Pebbles, and sleeping blindfolded locked in the basement Stevie Wonder comment. The Rock is funny. I personally choose Cenation over Team Bring it because Cena I felt said so many things the Rock had no comeback for. The Rock comes out, asserts himself as a dominant figure, and he can say whatever he wants and it works.
CM Punk comes out, he complains. He also breaks the whole television/scripted process of the business in doing it. It was a nice short ride, and I even went and ordered MITB just because I thought it would be a great match. But it's the same complaints day it and day out. It's clear why he's not on Collector's Cups and programs, because there are others who are better suited to be there. Yet, since he has "been held back," he needs to PMS about it.
Cena took the wrestling approach to becoming successful. He created a character, stuck behind it. He bleeds passion, he feeds off the crowd (both cheers and boos), and he sticks to being who he is in the ring. CM Punk had to use all the backstage drama, and for everyone who complains about the soap-opera/drama/lack of in-ring time on Raw, it's because of CM Punk. What he says is usually true, but I just don't care anymore. He sounds jealous of the success of others. He sounds bitter that he has not reached that level. And he'd rather blame everyone but himself.
I just can't take a constant whiner seriously.
The majority of the world I feel does not care if someone can do 50 some moves. They'd rather see one stunner, rock bottom, leg drop, sweet chin music, then 50 irrelevant moves. The reason things get repeated is because people like seeing them. Sure, routines get stale to those who analyze the product. The problem is Punk plays to those who analyze the product, not those who just try to enjoy. No one knew who John Laurinaitis was (and what his job was) unless they were an internet fan. No one knows about Ring of Honor or New Japan or, hell, even TNA unless they're an internet fan. You talk to people on the street, there's WWF (yea, that's how outdated wrestling has become) or it doesn't exist.
The Rock's mic routine can be predictable, but it never gets old seeing Michael Cole put in his place. It wasn't old hearing him make fun of Cena with his Fruity Pebbles, and sleeping blindfolded locked in the basement Stevie Wonder comment. The Rock is funny. I personally choose Cenation over Team Bring it because Cena I felt said so many things the Rock had no comeback for. The Rock comes out, asserts himself as a dominant figure, and he can say whatever he wants and it works.
CM Punk comes out, he complains. He also breaks the whole television/scripted process of the business in doing it. It was a nice short ride, and I even went and ordered MITB just because I thought it would be a great match. But it's the same complaints day it and day out. It's clear why he's not on Collector's Cups and programs, because there are others who are better suited to be there. Yet, since he has "been held back," he needs to PMS about it.
Cena took the wrestling approach to becoming successful. He created a character, stuck behind it. He bleeds passion, he feeds off the crowd (both cheers and boos), and he sticks to being who he is in the ring. CM Punk had to use all the backstage drama, and for everyone who complains about the soap-opera/drama/lack of in-ring time on Raw, it's because of CM Punk. What he says is usually true, but I just don't care anymore. He sounds jealous of the success of others. He sounds bitter that he has not reached that level. And he'd rather blame everyone but himself.
I just can't take a constant whiner seriously.
Hulk Hogan's Brother
Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!
Punk probably does not care about Harry Smith or any of his friends getting fired all that much. It was just used to fuel his promo. He used the Harry Smith example because it had been a recent firing as compared to that of Shelton Benjamin at the time the promo was cut. He used Cabana's name because his friendship with Cabana is well known in wrestling circles. That way he came across as a sympathetic friend along with a guy who was exposing the system. The point that he has always wanted to get across is that the WWE has fired many a talented superstar who did not deserve to be fired. He is more about exposing the system rather than a guy who stands up for his friends. And his gripes are far more than just his friends getting fired.
As for Bret Hart not talking about Harry Smith getting fired, well, no shit you did not see Bret drinking beer and raising a middle finger, did you? That wasn't his gimmick just like bitching about a firing isn't and that is why he is not doing it.
Tell me what he did after his feud with Jeff Hardy. Had a feud with Taker that Taker won quickly and after which Punk was given no rematch. He was given no feud from HIAC 2009 until WrestleMania 26 when he faced off against Rey Mysterio. He should have won the feud against Rey as he had more to gain than Rey winning the feud. The placement of the feud as well as the amount of time allocated to some of the matches was not satisfactory. He also lost a feud against Big Show, a guy whom everyone wins their feuds against because he is the perfect guy to put someone over. Instead they had Show squash Punk in a matter of 5 minutes at his hometown.
Take your head out of your ass. Just because he is a five time champion does not mean he has been booked great. Like I have said time and again, Statistics are like bikinis, what they show is largely irrelavant, what they hide is vital. You cannot get a better example of this statement than CM Punk.
Yeah, and this is bullcrap. It is a wrestler that makes or breaks a finisher and not the other way round. If Punk would have been booked well, his finishers would have looked good too. In theory the GTS is an awesome finisher though it may be a little tough to execute on the heavier guys. There is no problem, he can always lock in the Anaconda vice on them.
And I just do not agree with the powering out agreement. I have seen Big Show tap to the Crippler Crossface and it has never looked odd to me and Benoit was of a similar height if slightly muscular. Kurt Angle has made Show tap and in reality all Show would need to do was to shake his leg hard and that would send Kurt flying. If you can suspend your reality for these guys you can do it for Punk too, if you wanted to.
And Punk is some idiot who cannot wrestle against a physically superior wrestler? Samoa Joe, anyone? Sorry, this is more nitpicking especially the part where you say that no one looks good against UnderTaker. Undertaker has his best matches against smaller men and is adept at tellng big man vs little guy stories. His matches with HBK have been the stuff of lore, Kurt Angle has been a great opponent for him and guys like Hart and even Mysterio and to some extent Jericho have had good matches with him.
If the WWE wanted they could have booked a strong match between Punk and Undertaker. Also, they did have a great match after that on Smackdown in 2010 when Taker was in the middle of this storyline with Kane. Like I said earlier, Taker could have given Punk the rub if the WWE had planned that way.
And they could have made him look strong in all the other feuds as well.
Oh man where the hell do I start?
HHH has always been responding to Punk. He told Punk during the contract signing with Cena that he has just signed up for more money and isn't the saviour that he is saying he is. He also responded to Punk when he told him on Smackdown that he is the guy that will only accept change if he ends up on top. Punk did not respond back on either occasion and that is because he has not been booked to respond back just like he wasn't booked to respond back on Raw this week. This will all look better when the storyline advances but we cannot have patience for fuck's sake, can we?
So, apparently Rock is a better promo cutter than Punk? OK. Big Deal. One of the greatest superstars of all times can cut a better promo than a rising superstar. How is that any sort of achievement?
And secondly it is just the nature of the gimmick that is forcing Punk to cut promos in this IWC lingo. We all know he can cut fantastic promos as he has done in his feuds with Jeff Hardy, Orton and Mysterio. Those were promos that everybody could understand and he got some huge heat too.
He is getting quite a good heat with these IWC'esque promos as well. Some of the promos may have gone over the head of the marks but everyone can understand Punk dissing Stephanie or why he is angry at Kevin Nash and calls him an old washed up guy.
You probably do not understand the patience is virtue proverb do you? It has been 2 months and you have already passed some sort of judgement. Let us see what is in store for us. Yes, it is probably wrong to compare him to SCSA so early but it is also wrong to just completely write him off as well.
The only comparison that can be made with Austin at this point is that his shoot promo may have done as much for him as the Austin 3:16 promo did for Austin even though that also may be a stretch.
Uh yeah and what he says about HHH's wife isn't a shoot at all. He is just working the internet fans and that is his gimmick. HHH probably likes what he is saying as well. The "Dwayne" part maybe scripted as well for all we know. Punk as we know was initially a heel in this story and that may have been done to get heel heat.
It's a myth that most of the internet likes Punk. The internet fans love to hate on what is cool and sometimes even on that what is cool amongst them just to stand out from the pack. There are quite a few Punk hating threads on this forum, some justified and most of them thorough and utter garbage.
I don't see it that way he was busting his ass too but things were not handed to him like others.
But I agree that he needs a cause or his whole thing will start to crumble soon and that's why HHH and Nash will screw him and form a modern day corporate, Vince could even come back as the greater power behind all of it. Austin would have been nothing more than a wiener if he had no tangible argument for the audience and like you said, at the moment Punk don't. He needs to be screwed out of opportunity by HHH and he need to have a reason to complain and attack the boss.
Let's see how it plays out.
I agree to an extent. But Austin came out, and was a badass about it. He did more stomping, stunning, whatever you wanna call it, he beat people up and fought. CM Punk just has his "pipebomb," and I feel like no wrestlers biggest claim to fame should come on the microphone. Yes, wrestlers have catch phrases that complimented them, but they should not be defined for one promo. Austin had his rivalry with the Rock, Hogan and Andre, so on, so forth, all those guys greatest moments came in the ring during a match.
If his career ended today, Punk's claim to fame is his "shoot" sitting at the top of the ramp on raw. The match with Cena was great, but it wasn't a clean win. And if anything, HHH (as the ref) and Vince (by interfering) have screwed Cena, yet Cena has never come out saying he got screwed.
I hope that Punk is the revolutionary he sees himself as, but after so many matches, he's gonna have to stop blaming the WWE brass, and find something else to say. If he doesn't, this really will be a very minor surge.
I'm not reading everything that has been said, because I'm not going to dare spend my whole day wading through that insanity. But, I will respond loosely to the OP.
The IWC has romanticized CM Punk quite a lot, to the point now some are ordaining him as the new SCSA, the biggest bread winner in the history of wrestling. Is CM Punk a bread winner? Hell no. You think that kids are going to get behind a guy who's gritty and covered in tattoos, who "shoots" on wrestlers and employees that they have no idea about to the point where they'd have to research dirt sheets to get it, and who's style and build in no way represents a super hero? I mean, when Punk goes for the "Savage" Elbow Drop and gives the tribute, older fans mark out bigger than the building their in. But, even if a kid gets the tribute, is he going to care? Kids don't appreciate Abraham Lincoln, let alone the history and legends of pro wrestling. So no, CM Punk isn't going to appeal to children, ever. Of course, some kids might because they just fall in line with the older audience. But, they may not really like him, rather they just want a t-shirt and they see the adults wearing the new CM Punk shirt. So, is CM Punk going to be bigger than John Cena? No. They're completely different performers, and Cena lends himself perfectly to the things outside of wrestling, i.e. Hollywood, charity organizations, etc. Even Sheamus fits the mold of those things better than Punk.
But, do most older fans care about that? Obviously not, and this is why CM Punk is just as good as some say he is:
I sometimes think that I have a shorter attention span than my son. He knows things about each wrestler that even I wonder where he's found them, and I'm a big IWC mark. But, in a world where the majority of older wrestling fans are jaded, spoiled, and over-privileged, Punk has grabbed our attention. I'm not talking about his promos, I'm not talking about his Indy wrestling style, and I'm not even talking about the superficial things; CM Punk has caused the most overindulged fans in wrestling to stand up and take notice. That alone is a testament to his ability. If you don't like CM Punk, that's perfectly acceptable. I don't like Randy Orton, but some people love him and I respect that. But, Punk's size, look, and style make him unique, and in today's game, that can't be understated. Overrated? Maybe, at least maybe a little. But, is he at least legit? I don't think you can question it. I'm sure a lot of people even on this website are getting sick of talking about how great Punk is, but he's earned it. By whatever means he's gone by, he's won most of us over, and that's what stars do. I won't argue his style or look, because that's personal preference, but I will ask you to reconsider whether or not you really doubt his ability, or if you're just sick of hearing about him.
The IWC has romanticized CM Punk quite a lot, to the point now some are ordaining him as the new SCSA, the biggest bread winner in the history of wrestling. Is CM Punk a bread winner? Hell no. You think that kids are going to get behind a guy who's gritty and covered in tattoos, who "shoots" on wrestlers and employees that they have no idea about to the point where they'd have to research dirt sheets to get it, and who's style and build in no way represents a super hero? I mean, when Punk goes for the "Savage" Elbow Drop and gives the tribute, older fans mark out bigger than the building their in. But, even if a kid gets the tribute, is he going to care? Kids don't appreciate Abraham Lincoln, let alone the history and legends of pro wrestling. So no, CM Punk isn't going to appeal to children, ever. Of course, some kids might because they just fall in line with the older audience. But, they may not really like him, rather they just want a t-shirt and they see the adults wearing the new CM Punk shirt. So, is CM Punk going to be bigger than John Cena? No. They're completely different performers, and Cena lends himself perfectly to the things outside of wrestling, i.e. Hollywood, charity organizations, etc. Even Sheamus fits the mold of those things better than Punk.
But, do most older fans care about that? Obviously not, and this is why CM Punk is just as good as some say he is:
I sometimes think that I have a shorter attention span than my son. He knows things about each wrestler that even I wonder where he's found them, and I'm a big IWC mark. But, in a world where the majority of older wrestling fans are jaded, spoiled, and over-privileged, Punk has grabbed our attention. I'm not talking about his promos, I'm not talking about his Indy wrestling style, and I'm not even talking about the superficial things; CM Punk has caused the most overindulged fans in wrestling to stand up and take notice. That alone is a testament to his ability. If you don't like CM Punk, that's perfectly acceptable. I don't like Randy Orton, but some people love him and I respect that. But, Punk's size, look, and style make him unique, and in today's game, that can't be understated. Overrated? Maybe, at least maybe a little. But, is he at least legit? I don't think you can question it. I'm sure a lot of people even on this website are getting sick of talking about how great Punk is, but he's earned it. By whatever means he's gone by, he's won most of us over, and that's what stars do. I won't argue his style or look, because that's personal preference, but I will ask you to reconsider whether or not you really doubt his ability, or if you're just sick of hearing about him.
How observant you must be. Yes, I'm a fan of the guy that made me love wrestling in the first place. Sorry, I didn't realize it was wrong to like the most famous wrestler who has ever lived. Why don't you read what I actually posted moron. I guess you think HBK, Triple H, Austin, and Jericho aren't modern talents, because I talked about them as much as I did Hogan.
I'm not saying Punk is awful on the mic. I'm saying I hate his new character. Yes, CM Punk can be funny and original cutting a promo. That doesn't mean I have to think that his "rebel shooter" promo's are worth a damn. Their not. Their fucking boring. Can't wait for the next RAW were Punk (5 time world champion) can tell everyone that he deserves an ice cream bar because he wasn't big enough to be a star.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Punk is getting people so bent out of shape and I love it. According to reports, WWE isn't scripting Punk's promos but that doesn't mean that he doesn't get approval on what he says. Anything that CM Punk says on the microphone is approved, you can take that to the bank. None of these are legit "shoot" promos.
To me, this is kind of sad because whenever anyone in the WWE makes it to the main event level, these threads start up hating on the guy. It never fails. Six months ago, people were clamoring for CM Punk to be pushed, for years people have bitched that CM Punk has been elevated truly to the status of a main eventer. Well now it's here: he's the single most talked about guy in wrestling, has been for months, and is no longer a mid-card guy. But he gets more hate now than anything else. The vast majority of people are pissing all over the guy whereas half a year ago, the vast majority of posts were singing his praises for all to hear. The IWC gets what it wants and, if anything, it pisses and moans even more.
But, as to the general topic at hand, I do think people are going a bit overboard when they declare CM Punk the best this or best that of all time. CM Punk is white hot RIGHT NOW, but only time will tell if that continues to be the case. Punk isn't drawing big viewers RIGHT NOW but, again, the WWE is giving this thing time and they're not trying to rush through it.
As far as this angle goes, I'm enjoying the crap out of it. Punk's promos, while not legit shoot promos, sound very passionate and he comes across as extremely comfortable in his skin. Sure he "whines" about things but most people that do fight for "change" can be called whiners. Before the American colonies declared war on England back in the day, the officials and big wigs of the day constantly pissed and moand and whined their asses off about how King George was violating their rights. They eventually put their money where their mouths were. CM Punk is generally no different. Sure he whines but he backs up whatever he whines about. If he came across as this gutless wonder who talked a good talk but shrank away when it came down to the crunch, that'd be a different story.
It's as I said in other posts talking about this. Punk has long been an internet favorite and the WWE is playing on that fact. Much of what Punk says comes straight off these and other forums all over the internet. Punk "whines" like a hardcore fanboy that believes only he has the vision and the necessary ability to "change" wrestling. Also, like a hardcore fanboy, he'll accept nothing if it's not EXACTLY the way he thinks it should be. It's the perfect sort of character to pair off against the business orientated COO Triple H. It's fantasy booking vs. wrestling business reality. Punk's comments are definitely meant to keep internet fans interested in what he's said. Whenever WWE releases someone, for instance, how many posts do we usually see on here criticizing WWE for cutting someone? We've seen it most recently with Melina, Gail Kim and even Chris Masters despite the fact that none of them are especially necessary talents. But Punk is tapping into that frustration that some of the IWC have and is using it to keep his character on the radar.
The fact that there are so many CM Punk threads, the fact that we'll probably have at least 1 or 2 other CM Punk oriented threads on this forum before the week is out and at least 1 after NOC this Sunday is proof that it's working.
To me, this is kind of sad because whenever anyone in the WWE makes it to the main event level, these threads start up hating on the guy. It never fails. Six months ago, people were clamoring for CM Punk to be pushed, for years people have bitched that CM Punk has been elevated truly to the status of a main eventer. Well now it's here: he's the single most talked about guy in wrestling, has been for months, and is no longer a mid-card guy. But he gets more hate now than anything else. The vast majority of people are pissing all over the guy whereas half a year ago, the vast majority of posts were singing his praises for all to hear. The IWC gets what it wants and, if anything, it pisses and moans even more.
But, as to the general topic at hand, I do think people are going a bit overboard when they declare CM Punk the best this or best that of all time. CM Punk is white hot RIGHT NOW, but only time will tell if that continues to be the case. Punk isn't drawing big viewers RIGHT NOW but, again, the WWE is giving this thing time and they're not trying to rush through it.
As far as this angle goes, I'm enjoying the crap out of it. Punk's promos, while not legit shoot promos, sound very passionate and he comes across as extremely comfortable in his skin. Sure he "whines" about things but most people that do fight for "change" can be called whiners. Before the American colonies declared war on England back in the day, the officials and big wigs of the day constantly pissed and moand and whined their asses off about how King George was violating their rights. They eventually put their money where their mouths were. CM Punk is generally no different. Sure he whines but he backs up whatever he whines about. If he came across as this gutless wonder who talked a good talk but shrank away when it came down to the crunch, that'd be a different story.
It's as I said in other posts talking about this. Punk has long been an internet favorite and the WWE is playing on that fact. Much of what Punk says comes straight off these and other forums all over the internet. Punk "whines" like a hardcore fanboy that believes only he has the vision and the necessary ability to "change" wrestling. Also, like a hardcore fanboy, he'll accept nothing if it's not EXACTLY the way he thinks it should be. It's the perfect sort of character to pair off against the business orientated COO Triple H. It's fantasy booking vs. wrestling business reality. Punk's comments are definitely meant to keep internet fans interested in what he's said. Whenever WWE releases someone, for instance, how many posts do we usually see on here criticizing WWE for cutting someone? We've seen it most recently with Melina, Gail Kim and even Chris Masters despite the fact that none of them are especially necessary talents. But Punk is tapping into that frustration that some of the IWC have and is using it to keep his character on the radar.
The fact that there are so many CM Punk threads, the fact that we'll probably have at least 1 or 2 other CM Punk oriented threads on this forum before the week is out and at least 1 after NOC this Sunday is proof that it's working.
BillAlfonso
Getting Noticed By Management
I didn't twist your words, you said it plain as day that I was passing my opinions off as fact and that I felt like I had the holy grail or some other drivel.
Anyway, so I can't state my opinion on someone who's very good? Is that what you're telling me? I'll let you in on a little secret, if I can bust your bubble on Punk with this one thread, then you didn't like him that much to begin with, did you? I said what I felt, it's your fickleness that's bothering you much like my proverbial friend and his crush. I wouldn't down a chick he liked on her looks but, if she was a total bitch or a ****e, then I'd be in his face talking him down from the ledge. If you don't want to start a thread then don't, my thread followed the rules of the forum. If you have a problem with this thread existing, don't take it up with me because I've done nothing wrong in regards to this forum.
Take my head out of my ass? Take CM Punk's dick out of yours, dick rider. You people keep screaming it's scripted, isn't he the one that coined the phrase "Reality Era?" Doesn't that mean that everything he's saying is real?
For the sake of the thread let's talk about some of the things you pointed out. No, CM Punk would not beat someone significantly bigger than he is, remember, this is fake fighting at it's essence. Benoit could put the Crossface on The Big Show because he's a roided up freak who could've matched his power in that position, Punk isn't.
The reason that he wasn't given anything after his squash match with The Undertaker is because he'd just back talked him and had to go through it much like HHH after The Curtain Call Incident.
Drinking beer isn't Punk's gimmick either but he gets to bitch about his friends being fired?
Anaconda Vise should be his finisher since he's supposed to be a technician and finisher do make the star in certain cases. The Rock got over the Rock Bottom and The People's Elbow but the Diamond Cutter's awesomeness got DDP over more. You get special cases where it's 50/50 like Austin and The Stunner, Brock Lesnar and The F5, or Goldberg and The Spear.
Hell, The Rock wasn't an up and comer at some point? Doesn't everyone say that Punk is the best on the mic and how is Punk an up and comer? He's been doing this for about ten years now hasn't he? So, now that The Rock is back and is still better, Punk's an up and comer?
As for you feeling on anything else in the world, kiss my ass. Instead of being an internet tough guy, go get into a real fight.
I don't really hate CM Punk, I've liked him the whole time he's been in WWE, I just don't see why everyone acts like he's the best. He's really deficient in a lot of categories and it's really glaring if people would take off the rose colored glasses when looking at him. He's seriously regressed in his promos from his Straight Edge Messiah gimmick which was one of the best gimmicks in the last ten years, he was never spectacular in the ring and just gets credit for those kicks he does. Honestly, it's the fans of his that get me more than he does.
Hulk Hogan's Brother
Stop asking me what I'm gonna do!!!
And who said those words? The owner of the company? The General Manager of the show? Nope. Just CM Punk, just another superstar pushing his vendetta.
It was something that Punk said to appeal to the internet fans. They have been the ones who have been clamouring at the top of their voices for a change of era and he just threw them a bone. He is trying to project that what the internet fans talk is the reality and he is their representative and he is going to change the WWE.
CM Punk has worked you, it seems. Good job Phil.
OK this is silly. Smaller men have beaten Big Show. Big Show sells a 619 as if he has been hit by a wall of trucks. No matter how strong Benoit is, in reality he could have never kept Show down. What about Kurt Angle and the ankle lock to which Big Show has tapped. Hell, let us look at the Stunner, a simple jawbreaker that killed people. No matter how strong you are, a Stunner will at the best make you clutch your jaw, not knock you down for a three count.
If you could suspend disbelief for these men, you could do the same for Punk.
Which means that he was booked badly after his title run with Jeff Hardy, a fact that you have been trying to mask on the account of his world title wins and that feud with Hardy. Which also means that his gripes about not being pushed are real and not some part of fiction.
He is somewhat like a student leader who organizes rallies against the unjust things that are happening in the society. Austin was like the worker who would beat up his foreman who would behave unjustly with them. There is a marked difference between the gimmick. Punk's words speak louder than his actions while it was the other way round for Austin.
But what the hell are you talking about anyway? Read what I have written carefully. I compared Punk bitching about his friends to why Bret Hart is silent about the firing of Harry Smith.
.
Rock got over because of his promos. DDP got over because he was the first person to stand up against the nWo. Goldberg got over because of his streak. Brock got over because of his physique. And Austin got over by being a rebel.
I would not say that their finishers were not a part of their gimmicks but to say that they only got over because of their finishers is idiotic. They were booked to get over and their finishers helped as well. I do not see anything amiss with any finisher that Punk has. Punk is good with submissions so he uses the Vice when needed and he also uses his legs and knees a lot as a part of his offense and hence he uses a move that involves dropping his opponent's head on his knee.
I don't care what Punk has been doing in the indies. If Rock cut similar promos in ECW throughout his career, he would not have been remembered as the greatest promo man of all times.
This is about the time both guys have spent in the main event in the WWE and Rock has certainly spent more time than Punk. Punk has had roughly a year and a half at the top and is just establishing himself now by getting a huge push.
And no nobody I know says that Punk is the greatest promo cutter of all time. You are making that blanket statement to make yourself look good. Punk has cut some great promos from time to time with his shoot promo being his best ever. Punk may well easily be the best promo man on the roster currently aside from Rock's sporadic appearances and that fact is hard to dispute.
It's the same bullshit that every other idiot gives. Internet tough guy? Yeah, I guess that in a way you can prove your toughness on the internet by being smart and backing up your arguements with logic and understanding, which is what I have done. While you are this idiot who has just tried to post something "different" in order to appear smart. Tell you what, except for that idiot part, you are not that different from Punk, are you?
BillAlfonso
Getting Noticed By Management
You say worked like it's a bad thing, friend. I'm a fan of this business, you can't be a fan and not be worked, it's the fan's part to play to be worked. If a guy can't work me then I don't need to watch anymore.
Now, if he said that it's the reality era, that still means that the things he's saying and everyone else involved are saying are true or how he feels. Let's say that they aren't and he's actually still just working, it's still an angle that's going nowhere fast because all he's doing is airing out dirty laundry and not advancing the story. If he's just doing this gimmick to appeal to internet fans that that's more sad than anything. All of the greats developed their own gimmicks and let the fans follow them, they may be pushed by the bookers different ways, heel, face, or tweener, depending on what the booker felt the fans would be more receptive to but the workers really shouldn't be concerned with what the fans want him to do since they're so fickle anyway(Randy Orton in the house). We loved Stone Cold for being the bad ass then we loved him for being Mr. McMahon's comedic henchman. We loved The Rock for being a cocky heel then we loved him for being The People's Champ then for being a hollywood asshole. These guys had to reinvent themselves, sure, but they decided what the next gimmick would be. Hogan became heel because people were more receptive to him that way but he was just a heel version of himself, there was little fundamental difference between Hollywood and Hulk Hogan. If Punk's just doing this to appease the internet fans, then he's a bigger mark for the internet than they are for him.
See, that's the point, no one other than Undertaker, Kane, or Mark Henry would have a chance against The Big Show. But you could suspend disbelief because the Stunner was an impact move that could catch you out of nowhere. Austin never tried to make anyone tap, if Punk tried to slap the Anaconda Vise on Big Show, he'd just power out of it. Guys like Punk can't look good against guys like Cena or HHH even because of the power difference, they'd have to find another way to win and wouldn't look good doing it. So, back to what I said, Bret Hart was believably strong enough to make you tap after working on you for a while and HBK just tired you out being so much faster. To the point of Benoit, I already said that he was a 'roided up freak that was obviously strong as shit. Look at CM Punk, he looks just like any other motherfucker, you wouldn't believe that he could jump in there with a heavyweight let alone a super heavyweight. If things are supposed to be rooted in reality now, CM Punk cannot be world champ. Again, combat sports have weight classes for a reason.
I already told you why he was booked badly after Hardy, for back talking The Undertaker. For the third time, I was behind Punk in that instance but he should've been smarter about it.
Well, who's rallying with him? I don't see any other superstars taking up with him just the internet fans. He seems to just be there trying to poke fun at the rich kids, that's the student he seems like to me. The one that plays victim all the time because he's had it tough like no one else had it tough. Hell, HHH was paying dues and was over before he married Stephanie. The Rock had to be booed like he raped someone before he got himself over. Punk's words do speak louder than his actions which isn't abnormal for pro wrestling/sports entertainment. His words just say "I want this, I want that" but never does anything about it. Why doesn't he challenge them for Colt Cabana's roster spot? Why doesn't he take up a petition for Luke Gallows' job back with the fans? Even if it doesn't happen, it makes him seem like he's doing something about it.
Yes and he's bitching about his friends who were fired on the business side of things which is why Bret isn't saying anything about it. He even said that it was a great learning experience for him potentially. Punk is just sitting there babbling about Colt Cabana who never left much of an impression on me. Luke Gallows I agreed with and thought he had a lot more talent than was given credit for. Anyway, it's more of the same, air out dirty laundry so that the internet guys will get hooked.
Did you read what I wrote? I said that The Rock got The Rock Bottom and The People's elbow over. If it weren't for him, they'd just be a simple side slam and a weird elbow drop. If it weren't for how great the Diamond Cutter was and how random it was, DDP, whom I love, wouldn't be anything but another motherfucker getting beaten up by the NWO although he was in good company with Flair, Arn Anderson, Macho Man and Roddy Piper getting beaten up too. The streak was a gimmick, accidental though it was but the ferocity with which he did the spear was what made everyone notice him before they played the streak up. I remember in middle school with all my friends thinking for the first few matches, "Did you see that guy that ran through Hugh Morris?" Brock's physique was no better than Lex Luger's or HHH's or even Batista who wasn't widely known at the time so it was nothing we hadn't seen before, the moves he pulled of, especially The F5, for his size got him over the quickest and Paul Heyman didn't hurt. Austin got over by being the hell raiser but the fact that he could hit his finisher at anytime and did 98% of the time got him over a great deal too.
I really think he should stick with the Vise since he's the only one I've ever seen use it. I've seen GTS on youtube in japan and it still looked stupid. Lot's of guys get over because of finishers. RKO got over with that Punt to the skull since it made him look like that sadistic person he wanted to look like. Mankind got over because of the Mandible Claw at first because it was so weird and unusual like he was trying to look. People remember the finishers like they remember catchphrases.
I'd like you to clarify this for me.
He's getting a huge push but look a how fast he's floundering. John Cena said it best, Punk needed this time a whole lot more than he did and Punk really isn't doing anything with it.
That's the rumor on the forum then, everyone acts like being a brat means his words are gold. I liked him better when he had an actual gimmick like when he was the Straight Edge Messiah, I was loving every minute of that but now it's just "meh."
It's the same bullshit that every other idiot gives. Internet tough guy? Yeah, I guess that in a way you can prove your toughness on the internet by being smart and backing up your arguements with logic and understanding, which is what I have done. While you are this idiot who has just tried to post something "different" in order to appear smart. Tell you what, except for that idiot part, you are not that different from Punk, are you?
I'm not proving my toughness, I keep telling these people about how "untough" it is to talk shit over forums. This isn't the first time a guy has insulted me personally on this forum so why is it a problem when I address an issue that someone has for some weird reason taken up with me? Just because it's the same bullshit makes it cool to talk wreckless to someone you'll never meet to answer for your insults? I only do it since it seems to be the only thing you understand. You told me to "take my head out of my ass" just because you don't agree with me, there were plenty of members here who've disagreed with me so far and were able to express it without attacking me personally. You wanted to do this so you and anyone else that wants to come at me like that again can kiss my ass.
I didn't post anything different to try and appear smart it looks like you and everyone else who's said shit like that are projecting your feelings onto me. I posted my feelings on CM Punk's performance so far and everyone else took it to this level, this is no different from me saying that Heath Ledger's Joker blew away Jack Nicholson's. That's it.
drk_knight
Dark Match Winner
Wow, what a hypacrite. Its funny how your critizising others over the net, when your the one talking shit about a man who has proven himself to be a main event player. What the hell have you done?
Anyway, who the hell are you to say mma is overrated? Bruce Lee was based on his striking skills. Have you ever seen him or Chuck Norris grapple?
Lesnar got his ass handed to him by a master in submission and kickboxing Cain Velasquez. Can you imagine CM Punk facing a gym junkie that couldnt fight? CM Punk is taller than Valasquez and he also weighs in at near the same pounds. CM Punk will kick other past main eventer's asses. Name one past main eventer that has nearly the same amount of skills in striking and submissions like CM Punk. Punk is a more realistic face than people in the attidude era. When wrestlers got into brawls with eachother it looked stupid. Atleast Punk brought in a more realistic style to wrestling with his strikes and submissions.
Yeah right on the word twisting, picking only small part of a post and attacking them, fine if that's what you want.
First you didn't burst my bubble, I said why do you feel the need to TRY to burt people bubble. You don't have to like him or adore him and we don't have to convince you either, but why the need for a "He is good, but not THAT good" topic, that's all I am asking? Why did you feel the need to make that topic, that's all.
I don't really hate CM Punk, I've liked him the whole time he's been in WWE, I just don't see why everyone acts like he's the best. He's really deficient in a lot of categories and it's really glaring if people would take off the rose colored glasses when looking at him. He's seriously regressed in his promos from his Straight Edge Messiah gimmick which was one of the best gimmicks in the last ten years, he was never spectacular in the ring and just gets credit for those kicks he does. Honestly, it's the fans of his that get me more than he does.[/QUOTE]
Then you will say you are not trying to force your opinion on people because you don't like him THAT much, so we shouldn't like him THAT much either. I am not one to jump on a train like some people. I liked Punk day 1 and still like him, to me he is the best and THAT good, to you he isn't. You say he is not that great in the ring, but that's for YOU. Me, I was watching ECW to see his matches with Morrisson and I watched some part of Smackdown to see his matches, he appeal to me and I will say it again, he doesn't have to appeal to you.
And when I was talking about the reason you are doing this thread and that you are trying to burst people's bubble, you prove me right with that paragraph. You are mad that his fan are in "love" with him and that you aren't so you want to try to ruin the fun for everyone because you don't have any at the moment.
BASSER911414
Pre-Show Stalwart
just because uv trained in muay thai and mma doesnt automatically make u better than everyone else. MMA guys dont work well in pro wrestling. case in point. UFC legend, hall of famer and at one point the baddest motherfucker on the planet. Ken Shamrock. if ur logic is true then ken shamrock is probably the best pro wrestler in the world. no ken shamrock and another mma fighter steve blackman were both nothing special in the wwe.
hell iv been training mma for the last 2 years and i have a 3-1 amateur record and im not gonna say im better than the wwe superstars. yeah maybe id get in a kick or two or a knee to the gut but if a guy like john cena or randy orton whov trained in pro wrestling nothing eles grab me im pretty sure theyd pummel my ass till i wont be able to stand. pro wrestling nowadays is almost 50 % mma in any case. the wwe guys and even hopefuls must be training in basic boxing, kick boxing and/or jiu jitsu or judo. just some are more trained in them than others like cm punk. submissions and knockouts (which are rare but present) are mma, jiu jitsu, judo, boxing. muay thai etc. concepts. wrestling used to be just pins, nothing else. the ankle lock used by kurt angle and jack swagger. guess who invented it. an mma fighter named ken shamrock. the crossface. another jiu jitsu move. undertakers hells gate. the gogoplata another jiu jitsu/mma technique. being an mma fighter does not automatically make u a better wwe wrestler although it adds to ur character and personality in the ring.
and are u really comparing cm punk to cain velasquez. velasquez is 240 pounds. cm punk is billed 222. BILLED. that doesnt mean its his real weight. if velasquez did what he did to brock lesnar, cm punk wont even have time to say im the best int he world before velasquez punches his lights out. cm punk is not at par with any pro fighter in the ufc or strikeforce or even titan fc. hes where he should be... pro wrestling.
back on topic.
I like CM punk. I think he can cut a pretty good promo. hes one of the best ring workers right now. not just because of his little mma background. but because hes a good technical wrestler and because he works well with the other guy which is one of the skills wrestlers nowadays lack.
i still think cm punk is cutting good promos including the one this last week on raw. yea hes whiny and bitchy but i think thats on purpose. the IWC love him because of his ring work and shoot promos. i have issues with when he overacts. like when he was retching during the nash/hhh/punk thing and said that he was acting. i thought that was pretty lame and im surprised they didnt just stomp on his face when he was rolling on the ground.
as to being compared by the rock. ok lets get real. ur comparing cm punk who is a decent mic worker and an extremely good (but not the best ever) in ring worker to the man who could captivate millions by talking for as little as 30 seconds. i remember when the rock saw the wwe magazine featuring the hurricane on the cover. the rock made something like that funny as hell. at the same time a few years back he ripped hhh a new one when he said that the reason they kept him down wasnt because he wanted to say goodbye to his friends at msg but because he (in short words) absolutely sucked. i dont see cm punk doing anything like that and i dont think anyone should expect that from cm punk. cm punk can be serious. he cant be funny. not because he cant (he really cant) but because it wouldnt square with his gimmick nobody in the wwe can be funny now. not even supposed comedian john cena. the only funny guy i see now is r truth.
fact is. the rock stone cold hbk hhh taker kane big show foley edge christian hardyz even shane mcmahon belonged to an era of wrestling when wwe had the best talent they could dream of. they dont anymore. im sorry but hard as they may try the pg era cant live up to that era even if they included naked divas, playboy covers, blood, gore, hardcore wrestling and setting on fire. its gone and it isnt coming back. yea u get glimpses by guys like the rock and stone cold returning but thats about it.
cm punk is one of the best in an era where the best isnt all that high as it used to be. people should deal with it and enjoy the rare moments when the guys they cheered for when they were young return.
BillAlfonso
Getting Noticed By Management
I know you didn't ask me that. What have I done? What have you done? Aren't you on this forum with me.
I didn't say that MMA is overrated, I said martial arts in general are overrated. Most of that shit won't help you in a real fight when you don't have time to think and it's get them before they get you. Bruce Lee's style which isn't a style as he intended it to be was an amalgamation of various styles. Look at his movies, his primary stance is that of fencing which he did in real life because he preferred to lead with his dominant hand. His reasoning was that it should do more work being the stronger of the two, then he'd move into a boxing stance which he used because boxing was good for keeping your opponent in front of you and you see him using it when he gets in trouble in the movie and his opponent is moving around too much for him. He had respect for all forms of combat and self defense finding them to be the ultimate form of self-expression but found them all to be impractical in actual fights. Like I said before, what if you box and you opponent grabs you? Bruce Lee's philosophy on life, which led him to develop the style, was to be like water and to fit into each situation as necessary. You don't see Bruce grapple because his opponent didn't. If you want to see him grapple, check out "Enter The Dragon," he's actually grappling in one the earlier scenes and does an arm bar. On the subject of Punk and Cain Velasquez, haven't you ever heard of "billed" height and weight. Unless you're standing right next to him, you don't know how tall this Punk is. Kevin Nash was billed as 7 feet tall for most of the '90s then he was started to be billed as 6'9".
Then you will say you are not trying to force your opinion on people because you don't like him THAT much, so we shouldn't like him THAT much either. I am not one to jump on a train like some people. I liked Punk day 1 and still like him, to me he is the best and THAT good, to you he isn't. You say he is not that great in the ring, but that's for YOU. Me, I was watching ECW to see his matches with Morrisson and I watched some part of Smackdown to see his matches, he appeal to me and I will say it again, he doesn't have to appeal to you.
And when I was talking about the reason you are doing this thread and that you are trying to burst people's bubble, you prove me right with that paragraph. You are mad that his fan are in "love" with him and that you aren't so you want to try to ruin the fun for everyone because you don't have any at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Those two things stuck out because everyone else gets to voice their opinion calling The Rock a sellout or what have you and no one says anything because it's the hip thing to do right now to hate on a man that's done nothing but fulfill his contractual obligations to the company while he worked there and put over guys before leaving. He then comes back after everyone tries to shame him for living his life and this is the thanks he gets? That's no different that me voicing my opinion on Punk as being very good today but not the best.
I didn't force my opinion, you clicked on the forum and decided to read the post. The things you could've done other than read and respond to my post are legion but it was a decision on your part to read and respond. I didn't say that he didn't appeal to me, even now I still kinda like him but he's not great, he's very good.
Here's the difference between a fan and a dick rider which everyone is doing to him, a fan can tell you the short comings of whatever they're a fan of because they know it so well. I'm a Steeler fan and I can tell you how they'll lose if and before they lose, I called the first touchdown to Jordy Nelson when I saw that he was covered by William Gay in the Super Bowl and I called the first to Anquan Boldin last week when I saw that he was being covered by Bryant McFadden and they didn't lock Ike Taylor on him. A dick rider will say that the Steelers are the best team today and best at all positions when they obviously are not, most but not all. I'm a fan of 2Pac but I admit that the Notorious B.I.G. would eat him alive in a freestyle battle and Pac was mainly winning the battle off of energy and saying personal shit. Most of the people I see can't even say one negative thing about Punk as a performer but I can tell you The Rock's greatest weakness as a performer, he over sells. I can tell you Austin's, he makes it obvious that he's carrying the match although the average person wouldn't know that.
BASSER911414
Pre-Show Stalwart
this sort of stuck out to me. im going off topic to say that if u think mma doesnt help u in a street fight, honestly, ur nuts. in a street fight the basic mode of attack is grabbing the guy and punching his lights out. if ur trained in most forms of martial arts ud know exactly what to do. heard of krav maga. its a martial art derived from street fighting. and if u r trained in martial arts u know exactly when to get them before they get u. and im not talking shit u learn at ur high school. a boxer knows how to handle himself in a street fight, so does a guy who does jiu jitsu and a guy who trains in mma overall, unless hes against a 5 x bigger guy or one whos trained in martial arts just like him will trump the other easy
BillAlfonso
Getting Noticed By Management
I get what you're saying, I do, but I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't know, I mean, MMA does have it's uses in actual street fighting seeing as MMA was unofficially developed by Bruce Lee, his style is MMA at it's essence and he intended his style to be more practical in street fights. The issues comes in that they're still training you to do things when an actual street fight is chaotic and anything can happen. I'd rather just stick to get him before he gets me.
I've heard of Krav Maga but I'm not too familiar with it, I'm more interested in Keysi Fighting would like to pick it up if there was ever a teacher where I lived. I'd love to pick up Capoeira as well but I don't have the dexterity for it right now, maybe after shedding a few pounds and stretching.
I made a reply at first I told you that for me he was the most interesting thing in wrestling to watch and he has been for the past years. You don't have to like everything that he does equally, but like I told you, the reason you did this topic is because you are annoyed that a lot of people liked him.
Of course some of them may be "dick riders" as you call them, but how many Cena's fan are. If you really always liked Punk you should be happy that he is getting recognition and not try to tamper it or be annoyed by it. To me it seems like when you discover and indy band and like them and the day they finally become bigger and maybe more mainstream you start hating (or in this case liking them less) them for it.
The real crime is that a lot of people didn't find him awesome when he was in SES and was doing awesome speeches after awesome speeches but it wasn't bringing him anywhere unfortunately and I will blame WWE booking for that. How bad are you at booking when you can't even book a god damn stable.
I don't care that it's Super-Cena, they are 7... 7 guys that would beat him back into the rank, Cena shouldn't win, he should get his ass beated all the time and then ask for a one on one with every member barred from the ring and then he could win. Now before people start to freak out I know we are not talking about Cena but that was the most flagrant example of how WWE can't book a stable right. Same for SES, I don't care it's Big Show and he is 7 foot tall, they are THREE, they should break his legs and keep him on the floor, they are THREE. But no, Big show had to win and the SES started to fizzle, instead they could have booked Punk has a champion backed up by his stable and even make Gallows and Mercury tag champ, but WWE his using stables when they have nothing for you or when they want to create a story without the title, but a stable goal should dominate.
Back on Punk he was doing great matches and great speeches but he was overlooked because of his size, because he was self made, because he wasn't this or that so his gripes are legit and I don't think we should take wrestling fans for idiots. Like someone says, when Punk mentionned Colt Cabana, yeah most of the people didn't knew who he was but wha happenned after Raw? Cabana was trending on the net, because people are smart enough to look up what they don't know and informed themselves.
Like someone said, for us everything should be rushed it seems because the IWC (that you are a part of) get bored very quickly. Cena has been doing the same routine for 5 years and the kids are liking him. Of course some of us think it's old but non IWC watchers like seeing the same thing, just like when I was younger I enjoyed Austin and McMahaon for years, but in this day and age (or at least for the IWC) that feud couldn't last 3 months before people say "OLD".
I just don't think that now is the time to stop rooting for Punk, it should be the opposite. I know that you could be annoyed by those "dick riders" who think that Punk is the BEST THINGZ EVAR, but you shouldn't.
To me it just seems that you are angry because the best for you on the mic is The Rock and Punk is not on his level, but that's opinions. For some people they will think that the Rock is lame and that all his speeches are the same and for others Punk, Austin, Flair or HHH will be better. There's no right or wrong and you can't say The rock would eat him alive until we see that happen and we may never will.