Help with Law School

[thrilla11]

Hey everyone, I wanted to ask the intelligent posters of the cigar lounge some questions regarding Law School. I wanted to know if any one here has any experience with Law School, the LSAT, the application process or anything pertaining to Law.

I'm a second year UCLA student and I'm currently double majoring in political science and sociology and I'm thinking about minoring in stats. I wanted to get into law but in the past few months, I've been doubting whether I should. I'm a first generation college student, so thinking about life beyond college is pretty daunting.

I've read all about it and went to all the programs but I really want to pick the brain of anyone who has personally gone through the process or knows someone who has.

Any input about law or graduate school in general would be greatly appreciated.

 

[SalvIsWin]

This doesn't seem the right place to put this topic, but you are seemingly in the same boat as I am in regards to law school. I am speaking with a corporate lawyer this weekend, I have questions about admissions, proper courses to take in third and fourth year University, and other such inquiries. I would be happy to write a summary of my conversation with him and then PM it you. This would of course be as it pertains to Canada, but the overall discussion should be applicable to you as well.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

What exactly do you want to know about it? I'm going to law school in the fall, so, if you have anything in particular that you'd like to ask, I'll try my best to answer your questions.

You asked about the LSAT, and here's how it breaks down:

*The test has five sections: four that will count towards your score and one that's an experimental LSAC section.

*Two of the sections that will count towards your score will be logical reasoning (essentially, little arguments are made and then you are asked questions about them), one section will consist of four logic games that you have to answer questions on, and one section will test your reading comprehension. The experimental section can be any of these types of sections.

Also, I should make two more points:

*If you want to perform well on the LSAT, I highly recommend that you look at taking a prep course from either Testmasters or Powerscore. If you're a genius, then you won't need to take a course.

*As for what score you need, look at the LSAT percentiles of the schools you want to attend. If you want to attend either Yale, Harvard, Stanford, or Chicago, then you're going to need about a 175.

 

[thrilla11]

*The test has five sections: four that will count towards your score and one that's an experimental LSAC section.

*Two of the sections that will count towards your score will be logical reasoning (essentially, little arguments are made and then you are asked questions about them), one section will consist of four logic games that you have to answer questions on, and one section will test your reading comprehension. The experimental section can be any of these types of sections.

Thanks for alleviating my anxiety man. I was pretty nervous about the LSAT because I didn't know what exactly was on the test. Much thanks for your help.

*If you want to perform well on the LSAT, I highly recommend that you look at taking a prep course from either Testmasters or Powerscore. If you're a genius, then you won't need to take a course.

I'm looking to take a prep course next year. We have different courses in California though. I think I'm going to take one called Blueprint? Have you heard about it?

I have a few questions for you tdigle. If you could take time out to answer them, that would be great.

1) Do you still remember some of the logic games of the LSAT? I wanted to look them up on-line and have a feel for them.

2) I'm looking to buy an LSAT preparation book on-line and study it this summer. Would you say this is a good idea or would I just be wasting my time? Should I just wait for the prep course next year?

3) I also wanted to ask you about your extracurricular activities. How important are they to the application process? I don't have much community service hours so I was wondering if they look at this as a bad thing. Should I be trying to rack as much hours as possible this summer to strengthen my application?

4) I understand that GPA is important in the application process but I have gotten different answers from people. Some have said that they only look at your grades from classes that make up your major. Others have said that they look at your entire GPA as a whole instead. What is it really?

5) Also, do law schools look at grades more as opposed to LSAT scores or is it the other way around?

Thanks again for your help tdigle.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

1) Do you still remember some of the logic games of the LSAT? I wanted to look them up on-line and have a feel for them.

LSAC (www.lsac.org) had two old tests on their website the last time I checked. You'd be able to see what the test as a whole is like if your downloaded these two documents.

2) I'm looking to buy an LSAT preparation book on-line and study it this summer. Would you say this is a good idea or would I just be wasting my time? Should I just wait for the prep course next year?

Totally up to you. Personally, though, I'd recommend just getting a Princeton Review book at most. When it comes time for your prep course, I'd supplement the material with the LSAT Bibles put out by Powerscore.

3) I also wanted to ask you about your extracurricular activities. How important are they to the application process? I don't have much community service hours so I was wondering if they look at this as a bad thing. Should I be trying to rack as much hours as possible this summer to strengthen my application?

If you have the grades and the LSAT score to get into law school, then admissions could give a flying fuck what you did in your extra time. However, if you don't have the grades, the LSAT score, or both, this is where extracurricular activities would help you out (e.g., if you write the next great American novel, no one's going to give a shit what your grades and LSAT score are).

4) I understand that GPA is important in the application process but I have gotten different answers from people. Some have said that they only look at your grades from classes that make up your major. Others have said that they look at your entire GPA as a whole instead. What is it really?

Although I'm not on an admissions council, I think it's safe to say that they're going to look at your GPA as a whole. To the best of my knowledge, law schools weight both your GPA and your LSAT score to calculate a score of their own. If you score above a certain threshold, then, for lack of better words, you advance to the second round of the admissions process; in this second round, they'll take a closer look at your application.

5) Also, do law schools look at grades more as opposed to LSAT scores or is it the other way around?

This varies from school to school. Statistically speaking though, the LSAT is an excellent indicator of how you'll perform in law school.

 

[pyrusane]

Some additions to this. You are going to want to take a very close look at what school you want to attend, and what they have to offer you. My girlfriend is a second year law student who is preparing to change schools because her current school doesn't offer a program in international trade law. You are going to want to give some thought to what area of law you want to pursue, then do some research to determine what college offers the best opportunity in that field.

Another area we have been researching is which schools have the highest BAR pass percentages and the highest percentages of students employed directly out of school, as well as students employed within nine months of graduation.

The reason why all of this is important is because different schools have different application requirements, along with different requirements for LSAT scores. They all want to see your LSAT scores, of course, as well as your transcripts from your current school. However, Georgetown, for example, also recommends a brief letter with any details that might help influence the admissions committee to decide to accept you, whereas George Washington University requires a formal Letter of Interest, and Columbia requires a formal Personal Statement, if I remember correctly. Each of these are similar, yet contain very subtle differences that can make or break your application. You definitely want to know what the requirements are for each school you apply to so that you can tailor your application to meet their guidelines.

Finally, you also want to try to research how each school actually delivers their instruction, if possible. For example, my girlfriend's current college is run primarily by the Socratic Method, meaning the professor's don't conduct any lectures at all. They expect you to do all of the reading and research on your own, then question you about it later. If you get a question wrong, you aren't corrected, you are ignored or ridiculed, and the question is posed to another student. While this is effective for some learners, we all have different learning styles and some people would find it difficult or impossible to learn from this method. If you can, I recommend trying to talk to at least one student at your chosen university to find out what teaching methods are employed there to ensure that it will mesh well with your learning style.

Good luck to you man, hope it goes well!

 

[SalvIsWin]

1) Do you still remember some of the logic games of the LSAT? I wanted to look them up on-line and have a feel for them.

2) I'm looking to buy an LSAT preparation book on-line and study it this summer. Would you say this is a good idea or would I just be wasting my time? Should I just wait for the prep course next year?

3) I also wanted to ask you about your extracurricular activities. How important are they to the application process? I don't have much community service hours so I was wondering if they look at this as a bad thing. Should I be trying to rack as much hours as possible this summer to strengthen my application?

4) I understand that GPA is important in the application process but I have gotten different answers from people. Some have said that they only look at your grades from classes that make up your major. Others have said that they look at your entire GPA as a whole instead. What is it really?

5) Also, do law schools look at grades more as opposed to LSAT scores or is it the other way around?

I talked with that corporate lawyer I PMed you about, he didn't really have much to say, he answered all my questions, but didn't really elaborate on them too much. If I asked a question, he would give me the answer, but not the reason why that was the answer, which was a little disappointing, but he took time out of his day to meet with me, so I didn't want to press the issue.

About the LSAT, he told me that the LSAT was very highly correlated with success in Law school, and that schools know this. Therefore if your average isn't so hot (73-79% range - This is in Canada mind you), but your LSAT score is impressive, it can make up for it. He also stated that they will look at your entire average, not just your major average, but that the LSAT is very important to them. Nothing was mentioned regarding books to help you with the LSAT, but given the emphasis he continually put on to how important it was, I wouldn't take the risk and I would do what ever I could to make sure I do very, very well on it.

The difficulty of your course will also be assessed, a student in a difficult engineering course will be chosen over some one in liberal arts for example, like wise, an honour student would be chosen over a non-honours student, but that's not surprising at all. I asked about volunteering and about choosing specific courses (Sociology, Psychology, Criminology), and he stated that it although it matters, the marks matter the most, so pick some thing you are interested in that you can focus on. Lastly, he stated that volunteer hours, involvement in clubs, etc. are the types of things that will help borderline students that are on the edge of being accepted, or when they are some of the very last few to be accepted, if one has volunteer hours and school participation, they stand a better chance of making the cut.

To reiterate: They look at your total GPA, they look at the difficulty of your course, and they really look at your LSAT. Do what ever you can to improve those two marks, study, study, study, and don't slack. Good luck