AegonTargaryen
Championship Contender
What's a "TC" ? And "I'm afraid I have some bad news" ? Could you not be any more unoriginal! ? Everyone these days has been using that Wade Barrett line damnit.
Have the WWE creative lost it?
- Thread starter AegonTargaryen
- Start date
What's a "TC" ? And "I'm afraid I have some bad news" ? Could you not be any more unoriginal! ? Everyone these days has been using that Wade Barrett line damnit.
FlairFan2003
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Im so sick of people complaining about Batista returning and getting a top spot. Batista was a bigger star during a more popular time than just about anyone on the regular roster today, certainly way bigger than Daniel Bryan. Its not like this hasnt happened before, in fact its commonplace in wrestling.
The Rock left in 2003 and immediately got the main event spot two years ago, then left again only to return and again get the top spot.
Hulk Hogan immediately got top billing when he went to WCW in 1994 and got top billing for each of his short lived WWE returns 2002-07.
Kevin Nash immediately got top billing when he returned to WCW in 1996 and main evented through out his WWE return (when healthy) 2002-05.
Shawn Michaels immediately got main event status when he returned after a four year abscence in 2002.
Brett Hart got top billing as soon as he debuted in WCW in 1998, Lex Luger jumped to the top of the card when he debuted in WWE in 1993 & did the same when he returned to WCW in 1995, Goldberg immediately got top billing when he debuted in WWE in 2003 after having been out of wrestling for nearly three years.
There are numerous other examples, fact is its common place to jump start storylines by infusing new blood of returning super stars previously not on the show. Certainly given the ratings and viewership levels of WWE when Batista was last on top of the card vs what they are now it makes sense with WrestleMania on the horizon WWE would want to try and lure fans back by utilizing as many big stars as possible. Daniel Bryan has certainly not been forgotten or ignored, his fans shouldnt complain.
The Rock left in 2003 and immediately got the main event spot two years ago, then left again only to return and again get the top spot.
Hulk Hogan immediately got top billing when he went to WCW in 1994 and got top billing for each of his short lived WWE returns 2002-07.
Kevin Nash immediately got top billing when he returned to WCW in 1996 and main evented through out his WWE return (when healthy) 2002-05.
Shawn Michaels immediately got main event status when he returned after a four year abscence in 2002.
Brett Hart got top billing as soon as he debuted in WCW in 1998, Lex Luger jumped to the top of the card when he debuted in WWE in 1993 & did the same when he returned to WCW in 1995, Goldberg immediately got top billing when he debuted in WWE in 2003 after having been out of wrestling for nearly three years.
There are numerous other examples, fact is its common place to jump start storylines by infusing new blood of returning super stars previously not on the show. Certainly given the ratings and viewership levels of WWE when Batista was last on top of the card vs what they are now it makes sense with WrestleMania on the horizon WWE would want to try and lure fans back by utilizing as many big stars as possible. Daniel Bryan has certainly not been forgotten or ignored, his fans shouldnt complain.
ravendenied63
New Member
First of all Batista is a great wrestler I like him (better as heel) but he wasn't in ring shape so I do not agree with giving him the main event at WM30. CM Punk deserves the spot more just because he is/was one of their top dogs and has been there alot longer than Daniel Bryan. I am not saying Daniel Bryan isn't a top dog but if CM Punk is rumored to leave and he has worked his ass off for the last 8 years then he should be in it. Now lets talk about a wrestler who really does suck Jinder Mahal. Lets take Batista out of the main event and put Jinder Mahal in that spot. Randy Orton vs. Jinder Mahal, no wait, The Great Khali vs. Jinder Mahal. QUIT BITCHING, it could be worse.
Let's have a look then.
The Rock officially returned as the Host of WM 27, and promptly got into a feud with John Cena. Their Main Event match at WM 28 was billed a whole entire year in advance, had no effect on the major Title belts, and never directly crushed any narratives. Their rematch at WM 29 could be seen as a derailer that affected the likes of CM Punk's championship reign, but this was planned in advance, so far in advance that Punk's sudden reversal of fortunes way back in the summer of '11 probably weren't even thought of, much less planned out. If anything, Punk's surge into Main Event Status and how it crashed against the glass ceiling of Rock/Cena is a perfect example of how long NOT to plan a major 'world-changing' program in wrestling.
I noticed you left out WM 9, when Hulk Hogan jumped right into the title picture after wrestling a tag match earlier in the crowd, essentially nudging aside Bret Hart to take the title, when he went to WCW. I think this was after his absence form WWF due to steroid investigations. It's the closest to come to what's going on with Batista. As for what you listed, WCW was the epitome of bad business decisions, the late 2001 return was long enough to NOT seriously crush any storylines, and his '05 run started in a small appearance at Wrestlemania 21 where he saved Eugene. It wasn't until he got into a Tag Team with- and subsequently betrayed by- Shawn Michaels that he wound up in the Main Event picture. Not that anything was crushed there either.
Didn't take long to prove Nash didn't have WCW's interests in heart. Most of his Main Event status in the 2000's seemed more to do with Triple H, or him being fed to Triple H- Raw was a fucking mess back then.
He got a built-up storyline with Triple H and was cast as the wronged victim to a sinister heel, and more to the point, wasn't nudging anyone aside to play the part. Probably didn't hurt that he wasn't horrible in the ring in his debut.
-NOBODY was getting the fuck over the NWO during their reign, not even the Hitman. See how messed up his time in WCW was BEFORE getting kicked in the head.
-Luger took advantage, as Hogan and Hart and Nash did, of the competitive nature that comes with two separate organizations trying to dominate each other; they were top draws in one area and could name their price in order to jump ship. More to the point, they were still active and full-time WHEN they jumped ship.
-You know.... Goldberg comes the closest to Batista in terms of how long he was gone when he came back. So what're the differences? Goldberg went after the Rock and not the Titles during his debut, he got some time before he persued the titles, and near as I can tell, he didn't nudge anybody aside.
Here's what your examples had in common;
-Those who moved between organizations in the 90's until WCW's demise weren't so much returning part-timers as they were Prize Free Agents. These are wrestlers who could dictate their prices and in some cases their demands.
-Those who were gone for a long period of time actually did NOT debut in a Title Match or won a title shot on their very first appearance, did not make their debuts during Wrestlemania season, and didn't take over storylines.
-Storylines were, to the best of my knowledge, not bent or taken over by these returning icons. They had their own storylines set up for them or created shortly after their returns.
-In regards to Daniel Bryan, whom most believe was shoved to the side for Batista... can you name a wrestler who was in fact shoved aside by the returns you mentioned? Only example I know of is Bret Hart in WM 9.
I don't think people are complaining so much about Batista having a Top Spot as they are the context behind it. They're complaining about him basically taking over what seems to have been the most important storyline since Summerslam as soon as he arrived, which I'm pretty sure has NEVER been done before, and it's going over as well as anybody with common sense could predict. In short, Creative fucked him over by putting him in this position.
AegonTargaryen
Championship Contender
Haha. Spell hypocrite? Get off this thread you fucking kid, go lick on your momma's tits. Stop bothering.
To do you some justice, even though it's clear to me you're a kid, your opinion that Randy Orton sucks doesn't make you a fucking idiot. You categorizing main-eventers like Randy Orton and Batista solely on their past affinity with HHH and underrating them severely by way of saying "2 moves" "3-4 moves" does make you a fucking idiot. You're one disgusting kid to be argued with. Please watch Dean malenko and that tiny pipsqueak Daniel Bryan and get off of it because Randy Orton is too good for anyone to advocate and combat or argue for with a bum like you. Fuck off now.
Orton is good but not at the astronomical levels you place him at. Its a valid point that Orton and Batista are in the main event somewhat because of their acquaintances with Triple H which doesn't surprise me one bit, if you suck up to the right people, you'll get ahead. That's the way businesses work, not what you know but who you know. The fans are starting to get tired of the same guys winning over and over again, its like what CM Punk said to Cena: "You've become the New York Yankees" and for a long time the Yankees are/still is the most hated team in baseball because they win over and over again.
AegonTargaryen
Championship Contender
I agree totally with each and every point you make. I never said I love the WWE as it is or has been. I can't disparage John Cena enough and feel the same as Punk did and what change did Punk make? They should've never allowed a part-timer and a half-hearted Hollywood-devoted Rock to win the title. That was the most disgusting thing in recent history. But I also feel(and I know I'm in the minority here) Daniel Bryan is not the guy to lead us into the future or a perfect and viable replacement to the Orton, Batista and John Cena that the IWC is so sick of. He is largely overrated by the IWC and merely being a great technical wrestler doesn't guarantee you to become a main-eventer especially at a stage such as WM XXX. Superior wrestlers/entertainers such as Kurt Angle have never gotten precedence when it came to "big guy faces" the WWE so loves, including Rock, Austin, or Lesnar.
Rich the UK WWE Fan 2k14
Pre-Show Stalwart
Brock Lesnar? Are you having a fucking laugh? The guy has been in the Business over 12 years and still needs Paul Heyman to do all his promos for him, does that not say something?
I am aware you will now insult me for daring to disagree with you, but do I give a flying shite? No, I do not.
I am aware you will now insult me for daring to disagree with you, but do I give a flying shite? No, I do not.
Punk really didn't make a change but did very well prove a point. When Cena came back from elbow surgery he was automatically thrusted into a title match with ADR with no build and won. Now granted, it was a setup to unify the titles but that's beside the point. Whenever Cena was in the title picture, there was almost a 90% chance he would win, he could be the one person who WWE would like to have beat Flair's 16 title reigns, he's got 13 already and probably would have just under 20 before he's done.
Bryan may not be the future for you, thats fine, but who else is there that more main-event ready than him? Cesaro? He's good but has only one main event match under his belt. Ziggler? We've seen how WWE have treated him and they're concerned about his numerous concussions. The Shield and The Wyatts are in the same boat, they've got the backing of the fans and had some 5 star matches but they still have a ways to go.
I disagree with the point that being a technical wrestler doesn't guarantee you a main-event spot. It worked for Bret Hart, Benoit and Kurt Angle (even though I disagree with him not getting precedence) who were very technical in the ring. It confuses me sometimes why WWE shies away from that like its some sort of forbidden craft. If Angle had come back, I would pay to see Angle/Bryan, that would a 5-star match and would steal the show no doubt.
Rich the UK WWE Fan 2k14
Pre-Show Stalwart
And when Daniel Bryan predictably got handed his ass by Angle, the IWC would spend the following 6 months complaining about it, because they're never satisfied, they clamour for Angle to come back to WWE, but he comes back and beats the guy they're in love with, they start bitching.
No, I don't think so. Angle is very passionate about the wrestling industry, which is evident since he wanted to keep wrestling in the Olympics. The fans respect the guys who respect the craft not use it only for a paycheck.
AegonTargaryen
Championship Contender
I made a point that despite being a wrestler superior in every way(size, stature, intensity, wrestling ability, promo/mic work) to Daniel Bryan, even Kurt Angle
the real Wrestling God was ALWAYS subservient to the customary "Face of the WWE " stars such as Rock, Austin and Brock Lesnar. And you think I was joking or laughing?
I don't see any need to insult you or disagree with you because Facts are always better than Opinions and Kurt Angle being treated subservient to Brock Lesnar(irrespective of him sucking on the mic/Paul Heyman, etc. ) is not my opinion but a fact. Here's the proof:-
The WWE utilized Kurt Angle's in-ring abilities and trusted him early in his career so he got to hold the WWF title between No Mercy 2000 till No Way Out '01 where he dropped it to the Rock so he could have his big match against Austin at WM17. SUBSERVIENT. SECONDARY.
On Smackdown in 2002 and 2003, Kurt Angle was not chosen to be the Face of the WWE despite being the best wrestler including his ability to entertain/amuse on the mic as a face or heel which Brock lacked but Brock was. Angle was merely a transitory and transition champion. Fact. WM 19, Brock won. Even after Brock's heel turn and Angle being given a victory against Brock at Summerslam, it was Brock Lesnar who ultimately held the title thus being the Face of Smackdown brand until his departure.
Every match he's been in since returning to the WWE has been a MOTN contender, and one was even a MOTY type of performance. All his matches are massive draws, and he's massively over no matter what he does. He lost to Triple H, disappeared for a few months, and the fans still lost their shit when he returned for vengeance.
Just because a guy needs a manager to talk for him doesn't mean he's not over. Yokozuna is one of the best heels in professional wrestling history, and Mr. Fuji played no small part in that. Where would Hogan vs. Andre be without Bobby Heenan's involvement? When you talk about the best stable in wrestling history, The Four Horsemen, JJ Dillon's name is never left out of the conversation.
Stop acting like you're so much smarter than everyone in this thread. You're not. You are, in fact, quite dimwitted, and your disrespect for one of the hottest characters in wrestling today proves it.
AegonTargaryen
Championship Contender
Agree mostly but disagree with your point of Angle, Hart, etc. They were NOT merely excellent technical wrestlers but tall/credible enough to be in main events and had engaging characters and intensity that remains unrivalled to this day.
Some say Bret Hart sucks on Mic, however if you watch his promos from 1996/1997 you can clearly see he's quite capable on the mic and entertaining too but he's certainly not The Rock on mic. Nor did he use some one-word chant to get over. His approach on the mic was just an extension of Bret Hart-the person, Stu Hart, their legacy , his opinions on Canada/America, all of that came across as a genuine thing and quite a lot of display of fervour and emotion on Bret's part.
Kurt Angle being an engaging character as a heel after his debut and being one of the most entertaining parts of every show until his departure in 2006 is not arguable.
Chris Benoit even though superbly built for a guy who's just 5'10 and being a suplex machine to some came across as robotic at times both as a wrestler and on mic due to his intonation. I don't think Benoit can be classified as the technical wrestler who was a Main-eventer/world champion because the only time in his decades long career, he was champion for a few months in 2004 and that's about it. But he possessed awe-inspiring physique(for a guy that short), and an intensity, credibility, and matter-of-factness about him which was not entirely dissimilar to Kurt Angle. Again something which Daniel Bryan lacks. Thus, Hart, Angle, and Benoit weren't just excellent technical wrestlers but average to good on mic and engaging over-all. They did not need some chant or some T-shirt to establish themselves as main-eventers nor the Audience chanting monosyllables day after day. So much for Legitimacy!
As for Daniel Bryan being an amazing wrestler, I couldn't deny it and Kurt and Bryan could be a Wrestlemania showstealer just like Kurt and Brock and Kurt and Shawn Michaels was. As for who's going to carry the company without Cena/Orton, maybe Roman Reigns?
Rich the UK WWE Fan 2k14
Pre-Show Stalwart
Stop dreaming mate, Angle versus Bryan will never happen, even if Angle came back to the WWE he'd be in the same boat as Hulk Hogan, he would fail the medicals so would have to come back in a non-wrestling capacity.
That's why he left in the first place, because he got done for driving under the influence of either Alcohol or drugs.
That's why he left in the first place, because he got done for driving under the influence of either Alcohol or drugs.
Blackhawk1
Dark Match Jobber
I, for one, are getting fed up with Corporate WWE running each and every show as if the faction is untouchable. Like last night, again theres a triple team of another wrestler who's not in Triple H's pants. I'm rapidly losing interest in WWE and if they don't shake things up real soon I will not be tuning in anymore. Is this what they want??
That's called 'Generating Heat'. It's a tactic Heels use in order to get the crowd riled up and want their blood. That typically ends in a satisfying payoff for the Heroes. So at some point you'll see Ambrose or Reigns destroy Rollins and/or HHH.
They want you to get riled up because that makes you more likely to keep tuning in, to see if maybe, just maybe, this is the day the bad guys are the ones that get curb-stomped. The best times of wrestling have been with villains such as these at work, plain and simple.