Has WWE learned nothing about the value of factions?

[Radical]

I really wonder sometimes if WWE has learned nothing about the value of factions in their programming.

It's like current WWE mentality is to let every wrestler fend for themselves and try to make that connection with the crowd with little direction, storyline or meaning to their matches. And then WWE is surprised when certain wrestlers get no reaction. Yes, some of them don't quite have the charisma or mic skills, but if WWE forgets about how many now successful wrestlers they've had in the past that weren't so 'amazing' with charisma, ring or mic skills at first, but after being put in a faction, had room to grow and flourish, then I think they are doing a big disservice.

There is a lot of reasons for factions to be present in WWE. Factions are like groups or tribes that may be part of an overall organization (WWE) but have different opinions, tactics or motivations for their actions. It's like life. People find a group of friends who generally share similar values with them. So why are we pretending in WWE there cannot be groups larger than 2?

There are occasional exceptions like The New Day, but just until recently they have been solely around the tag team division. And there was a teaming of McIntyre, Lashley, Corbin, but even that's basically fizzled out already!

But, if I think back there have been so many great factions in WWE that have then laid the foundation for so many great stories and matches.

Factions like Nation of Domination, DX, The Corporation, Ministry of Darkness, Right to Censor, Evolution, Nexus, The Shield.

But, see, the list drops off a lot near the end, with very few of those factions being anywhere in the last 10 years! The Shield is the closest to a successful faction WWE has had in years. Nexus was the last faction that had A LOT of potential to spawn all sorts of great rivalries, matches, stories and moments, but was CRUSHED way too fast before it barely got started.

But, if I go back to Evolution for a moment, I can take this one as an example of how much good a top faction can do for an entire show!

First of all, let's look at the members of Evolution:
- Starts with Triple H - the arrogant champion! (at this time he was still in his prime, and say what you want about him burying people, but at this time he wasn't too old and had a lot of legit reasons based on his character's past to be in the position he was)

- Ric Flair is added - an aged legend, who could play a more managerial role, but still wrestle here and there.

- Randy Orton - a bluechip young prospect, who people forget, was pretty bland at the time. He didn't have a great look when he first debuted or great mic skills, but his inclusion in Evolution gave him so much time to shine.

- Batista - a big, muscle-bound, jacked guy - also, a guy who didn't have much charisma, ring or mic skills at the time. But again, being included in this faction gave him so much more time and opportunity to grow. And that he did.

Now, I'm not 100% sure on the exact timeline for everything Evolution and I'm just going on my memory, but that's a good way to show how valuable a good main event stable can be that I'm still remembering stories and matches related to Evolution today.

Some Evolution-related highlights and assets to storytelling and star-building:

- As I mentioned, this gave two young wrestlers a great chance to grow into stars. Almost everything now associated with Orton or Batista was spawned from the opportunity and success Evolution had and the ripple effects it created. Batista was Deacon Batista before Evolution. Without Evolution he would be hard pressed to have done anything more than fall into obscurity, like so many other jacked guys who come into WWE with no real chance. The whole "Evolution made Batista" is now being used for WM match, even if I don't particularly think it's necessary now. And Orton, may well have found a way to succeed, but probably not nearly as fast as how it worked when he was with Evolution. Do you think the debut Randy Orton without Evolution would have been IC Champ, the Legend Killer, and World Champ so fast or at all without the Evolution angle?

- The group started out, I believe with just Triple and and old buddy Ric Flair as Triple H was desperate to protect his World Title.

- Orton gets added and I'm sure there was time where before he was added into the group he was scouted by Triple H and proven himself, which can be a plot device for a show or two.

- A top threat and rival to Triple H and his World Title became Goldberg. So Triple H resorts to putting a bounty on Goldberg's head. Leads to compelling storytelling of "who's going to try and take out Goldberg?" and "who is going to try and fail... but, who is going to actually succeed?" ... leads to the introduction of Batista to Evolution.

- Now a 4-man group, to further show off to everyone, Evolution goes to a PPV and comes back with ALL the gold, all the titles! Now, for better or worse, like it or not, every Raw show has focus, has meaning and has intrigue. Fans can get behind the battle of the good guys to get back at this dastardly faction and their takeover of all the titles on the show.

- Now naturally, so many great babyfaces can emerge. As Evolution gets dirtier and dirtier, any comeback by a likeable character can get great support! Around this time you had characters like Tajiri, William Regal, Eugene, The Hurricane, Shelton Benjamin, and The Dudley Boyz, just to name a few.

- Of course, around this time you also had a heel GM - Bischoff, but a counter to that with Steve Austin as Sheriff or Co-GM. Some people say no more authority figures, but I don't see how that makes any sense. Real life has authority figures in companies, and while you can tweak how INVOLVED an authority figure can be, to just make authority figures disappear is naive at best. Anyway, that said, a heel GM that basically supported Evolutions actions gave even MORE heat to the faction and more reason for pops when babyfaces got some just revenge.

- Evolution lead to a lot of great moments, like the inevitable split. But, it spawned a bunch of new rivalries. When Orton won the World Title and was turned on by Evolution, there is some instant heat, instant meaning and interest in a new storyline.

- And perhaps, my favorite Evolution moment was after the split with Orton and Triple H with Flair saying how they are gonna run Raw. Flair had a match with Orton and won dirty, apparently making it so Orton could never face Triple H again while he was still champion... Flair and Triple H go to leave, but OH NO, here comes Jericho, Benoit and Maven blocked their path! Triple H and Flair try to escape another way but Hurricane, Rosey, Eugene, Rhyno, Tajiri and Shelton Benjamin are blocking their escape!

Ric and Triple H roll back into the ring as Orton is coming to again... Flair turns around and BOOM RKO! Triple H runs to escape but is caught and forced back into the ring! Pleading for his life, he tries to fight his way out again, but Maven blocks his punch and returns one, knocking him back into 3 suplexes by Benoit and a Lionsault by Jericho... and of course, finishing it off with a powerful RKO by Orton!


I just feel like SO MUCH good storytelling can come from having a credible faction on the show. And WWE hasn't had a credible faction on the Raw or SmackDown in YEARS (not including The Shield, as they were already mentioned). Although, it is funny because WWE is STILL building storylines off of The Shield members. Isn't that something? When they actual create a credible and dominant group it creates a ripple effect that last for years.

When WWE forgets or doesn't care about using credible factions? You get what you see now in WWE. A mish mash of random events that aren't connected in anyway. You give fans every reason not to watch a full show and to get bored and disinterested ... and hungry for something different that will understand the fans better.

What are your thoughts on these ideas?

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

The problem with threads like this is that the OP always mentions the great factions (DX, NWO, Shield, etc). They tend to forget all the garbage ones that have been created over the years (Corre, JOB squad, Spirit squad, etc). I challenge someone to go through the list of all factions ever in WWE and see that ratio.

And you glossed over New Day like they're nothing. Do you not realize they've accomplished exactly what you said factions should set out to accomplish? Took 3 stagnant wrestlers with very limited potential and gave them all experience work that has paid off extremely well. Kofi and Big E used to be garbage promos. If they can maintain their charisma, while also losing the overt goofyness, they could be relevant by themselves for years. Woods seems like he's always been the best of the three on the mic, but I just don't see much potential beyond that for him.

 

[Radical]

I didn't suggest in any way that I listed all of the factions in WWE history. I just named some of them.

New Day wasn't forgotten, I just didn't mention them. But, they have been good.

As for all the bad factions in the past? Sure, but you could do that for every creative thing in pro wrestling, and the odds are it will have worked out poorly more than it worked well. How many foreign heel gimmicks have their been? Some worked, lots didn't. How many evil authority figure stacking the deck against the underdog storylines have their been? A bunch, some worked and some didn't. How many David vs Goliath matches have there been? Lots, and some really sucked some have been great. But, just because some iterations of an idea have been tried a bunch of times and failed, doesn't mean the idea itself should never be tried again.

 

[Scottchua]

The problem with threads like this is that the OP always mentions the great factions (DX, NWO, Shield, etc). They tend to forget all the garbage ones that have been created over the years (Corre, JOB squad, Spirit squad, etc). I challenge someone to go through the list of all factions ever in WWE and see that ratio.

And you glossed over New Day like they're nothing. Do you not realize they've accomplished exactly what you said factions should set out to accomplish? Took 3 stagnant wrestlers with very limited potential and gave them all experience work that has paid off extremely well. Kofi and Big E used to be garbage promos. If they can maintain their charisma, while also losing the overt goofyness, they could be relevant by themselves for years. Woods seems like he's always been the best of the three on the mic, but I just don't see much potential beyond that for him.

I absolutely agree with Fire Marshall Bill here.. For every success story like DX or Evolution, there are countless more like RTC, BWO, 3MB, CORRE, X-Factor etc etc which never take it to the sky.

With both the Shield and New Day breaking up in the foreseeable future, I believe WWE will create more factions in both Smackdown and RAW.

For me, I am thinking perhaps pairing Roman Reigns, Usos, Tamina & Nia Jax to form a "Samoan Dynasty" on RAW. But these gimmicks have such polarized reception given that Roman is such a babyface now and Nia is a super hot heel.. Putting contrasting characters in such a stable needs plenty of writing and build up over weeks.

For Smackdown, I am actually thinking of having Kofi turns on Big E/Xaiver eventually. (See my other thread for details). Then, pair Kofi up with a Manager (e.g. Lio Rush) and give Kofi some Tag Team muscle like AOP. They can form a short-term heel faction to boost Kofi stability in the coming year. It will be similar to JBL's Cabinet. Impactful over the course of his title reign, but forgettable in the long history books.

 

[Radical]

I absolutely agree with Fire Marshall Bill here.. For every success story like DX or Evolution, there are countless more like RTC, BWO, 3MB, CORRE, X-Factor etc etc which never take it to the sky.

RTC? Right to Censor? Right to Censor did a great job as a mid-card faction. They had huge heat and it worked great for anyone who went up against them. They also had decent success on the mid-card, with Buchanan and Goodfather holding the Tag Titles and Ivory holding the Women's TItle. Sure, they never were top of the card, but not everyone can be top of the card, and RTC were a great example of how good a mid-card faction can be that does the job.

I agree that attempts with mid-card factions like 3MB, Corre and X-Factor fell flat, but that doesn't mean WWE should never try it again.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I remember when WCW created the NWO in 1996 and WWE decided to go faction crazy by putting everybody they had in a faction to the point of being bordeline racist and dumb. You had the nation which was all black guys, the boricuas which was the latinos and the DOA which were the bikers. You also had the truth commission which was super to be a south african army type faction and can we not forget Kaientai and the odditties. These where awesome idea right? the thing we WWE is that for the most part when they go into a certain mode like having faction, they don't have they go overboard with them and are use mostly for comedy aspect. Even when they got the NWO, they pretty much destroyed the group within 3 months.

The problem in WWE is the for one DX, you will get 5 3MB and they never learn from their mistakes with faction because they don't use them most of the time as main event acts. IT's always guys from the mid card they have nothing for and for the most part, they fell flat immediatly.

If you look at the past 25 years in WWE history, they created 6 successful faction out of probably 15 or 20 (DX, the hart foundation, the corporation, evolution,The shield & the new day) that's not a lot in that period. So they don't think that factions can lead into a main event act because they don't want to put main event talent in faction. Imagine if you could have a faction with Aj styles, Samoa joe, finn balor and the good brothers how great that faction could be in WWE. But that won't happen because they see factions as mid card acts and that will always be the mentality of the company.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I remember when WCW created the NWO in 1996 and WWE decided to go faction crazy by putting everybody they had in a faction to the point of being bordeline racist and dumb. You had the nation which was all black guys, the boricuas which was the latinos and the DOA which were the bikers. You also had the truth commission which was super to be a south african army type faction and can we not forget Kaientai and the odditties. These where awesome idea right? the thing we WWE is that for the most part when they go into a certain mode like having faction, they don't have they go overboard with them and are use mostly for comedy aspect. Even when they got the NWO, they pretty much destroyed the group within 3 months.

The problem in WWE is the for one DX, you will get 5 3MB and they never learn from their mistakes with faction because they don't use them most of the time as main event acts. IT's always guys from the mid card they have nothing for and for the most part, they fell flat immediatly.

If you look at the past 25 years in WWE history, they created 6 successful faction out of probably 15 or 20 (DX, the hart foundation, the corporation, evolution,The shield & the new day) that's not a lot in that period. So they don't think that factions can lead into a main event act because they don't want to put main event talent in faction. Imagine if you could have a faction with Aj styles, Samoa joe, finn balor and the good brothers how great that faction could be in WWE. But that won't happen because they see factions as mid card acts and that will always be the mentality of the company.

The Nation was SUPPOSED to be all black guys, because it was based off the extreme arm of the Nation Of Islam, a black supremist group, (with Faarooq being the Louis Farrakhan type leader). The problem is that they then added WHITE Owen Hart, who didn't fit the criteria of the faction (since the Nation were meant to be anti-white).

 

[Radical]

You bring up a lot of interesting points. Just have a few responses to them myself.

I remember when WCW created the NWO in 1996 and WWE decided to go faction crazy by putting everybody they had in a faction to the point of being bordeline racist and dumb. You had the nation which was all black guys, the boricuas which was the latinos and the DOA which were the bikers. You also had the truth commission which was super to be a south african army type faction and can we not forget Kaientai and the odditties. These where awesome idea right? the thing we WWE is that for the most part when they go into a certain mode like having faction, they don't have they go overboard with them and are use mostly for comedy aspect. Even when they got the NWO, they pretty much destroyed the group within 3 months.

Other than the Nation of Domination that helped birth The Rock and, of course, DX, yeah, the bunch of factions WWE created at that time of the WCW's NWO were pretty bad.

But, that said, I think it's a little harsh to say that the NWO was pretty much destroyed after 3 months? Really? In terms of what? Give them at least a year from 1996 when they started to 1997 where they were still hot, no matter the 'problems' they may have had. WCW was number 1 in the ratings through 96 and most of 1997. Even 1998 the NWO was still an attraction to WCW. Sure, it got ripped to shreds and way over done in time, but I don't think it was anywhere close to 3 months.

The problem in WWE is the for one DX, you will get 5 3MB and they never learn from their mistakes with faction because they don't use them most of the time as main event acts. IT's always guys from the mid card they have nothing for and for the most part, they fell flat immediatly.

If you look at the past 25 years in WWE history, they created 6 successful faction out of probably 15 or 20 (DX, the hart foundation, the corporation, evolution,The shield & the new day) that's not a lot in that period. So they don't think that factions can lead into a main event act because they don't want to put main event talent in faction. Imagine if you could have a faction with Aj styles, Samoa joe, finn balor and the good brothers how great that faction could be in WWE. But that won't happen because they see factions as mid card acts and that will always be the mentality of the company.

Fair point, that WWE, in particular hasn't done a good job of building main event focused factions, because, I guess, they are 'scared' to put that much time and focus on a few wrestlers. It's funny they feel that way because every time they have successfully done it they have developed a bunch of stars that last for years and can work everywhere from mid to top of the card.

I think I'd also add Ministry of Darkness in there as a successful faction. Other than that, I'd agree with your list of the only successful main event factions in WWE.

I, too, was a little surprised that they did NOTHING with AJ Style, Finn Balor, Good Brothers (and even Samoa Joe) in term of a main event + mid-card faction. It's crazy to me because obviously they were going to push AJ Styles and Finn Balor anyway, and if they had them in a dominant faction and then put them up against another resistance faction (could even have been The New Day) it should have still worked in both their favors.

It seems clear to me that Vince is very anti-faction right now, and has been so for years. He killed The Nexus mere months after it started so they could never even close to realize their potential. The Shield and The New Day are the only factions Vince has allowed to thrive in the last 10 years, and it's funny that right now he's playing a character who is actively trying to keep Kofi of the New Day from ascending to main event status!

I still think strong factions is a good, logical way to build stories, feuds and intensity, despite how lacking in attempts and quality WWE has been with this in the last decade or so.

 

[Scottchua]

I, too, was a little surprised that they did NOTHING with AJ Style, Finn Balor, Good Brothers (and even Samoa Joe) in term of a main event + mid-card faction. It's crazy to me because obviously they were going to push AJ Styles and Finn Balor anyway, and if they had them in a dominant faction and then put them up against another resistance faction (could even have been The New Day) it should have still worked in both their favors.

It seems clear to me that Vince is very anti-faction right now, and has been so for years. He killed The Nexus mere months after it started so they could never even close to realize their potential. The Shield and The New Day are the only factions Vince has allowed to thrive in the last 10 years, and it's funny that right now he's playing a character who is actively trying to keep Kofi of the New Day from ascending to main event status!

I still think strong factions is a good, logical way to build stories, feuds and intensity, despite how lacking in attempts and quality WWE has been with this in the last decade or so.

I don't believe Vince has the appetite to tolerate factions that was born outside of WWE. Pairing AJ Styles & Balor simply reignite the memories of The Bullet Club. Look at how successful NWO was at one time. Did Vince really capitalize on it when he bought WcW? Nope. It became a passing joke in 2002. Because whatever product that is not by his hands, is not a good mention. That's his perspective, in my view.

Over the past recent years, Vince did not want to over populate the roster with factions, because it already has established groups like Shield and New Day who is crowding the spots. Now, both factions are splitting soon, it will be interesting to see how the coming names like Sanity, maybe The Wyatt Family, Undisputed Era, Unforgotten Sons fare. This coming year will be interesting..

 

[Psykohurricane55]

You bring up a lot of interesting points. Just have a few responses to them myself.



Other than the Nation of Domination that helped birth The Rock and, of course, DX, yeah, the bunch of factions WWE created at that time of the WCW's NWO were pretty bad.

But, that said, I think it's a little harsh to say that the NWO was pretty much destroyed after 3 months? Really? In terms of what? Give them at least a year from 1996 when they started to 1997 where they were still hot, no matter the 'problems' they may have had. WCW was number 1 in the ratings through 96 and most of 1997. Even 1998 the NWO was still an attraction to WCW. Sure, it got ripped to shreds and way over done in time, but I don't think it was anywhere close to 3 months.



Fair point, that WWE, in particular hasn't done a good job of building main event focused factions, because, I guess, they are 'scared' to put that much time and focus on a few wrestlers. It's funny they feel that way because every time they have successfully done it they have developed a bunch of stars that last for years and can work everywhere from mid to top of the card.

I think I'd also add Ministry of Darkness in there as a successful faction. Other than that, I'd agree with your list of the only successful main event factions in WWE.

I, too, was a little surprised that they did NOTHING with AJ Style, Finn Balor, Good Brothers (and even Samoa Joe) in term of a main event + mid-card faction. It's crazy to me because obviously they were going to push AJ Styles and Finn Balor anyway, and if they had them in a dominant faction and then put them up against another resistance faction (could even have been The New Day) it should have still worked in both their favors.

It seems clear to me that Vince is very anti-faction right now, and has been so for years. He killed The Nexus mere months after it started so they could never even close to realize their potential. The Shield and The New Day are the only factions Vince has allowed to thrive in the last 10 years, and it's funny that right now he's playing a character who is actively trying to keep Kofi of the New Day from ascending to main event status!

I still think strong factions is a good, logical way to build stories, feuds and intensity, despite how lacking in attempts and quality WWE has been with this in the last decade or so.

The point i was making with the NWO is with the WWE version of it. They came in to WWE with the original three in february, took hogan out or the group after mania 18 because they didn't expect the nostalgia pop hogan would get at mania, hall got fired in april and then the group was pretty much dead when they added big show, x pac, booker t and made HBK the leader of the group. The fact that nash got injured during the run didn't help either. The NWO run in WWE was terrible and while they got in with a tremendous pop, that pop fizzled out really quickly and the whole thing just crumble months into it.