Has WM lost it's lustre?

[FitFinlay4Life]

A British wrestling magazine - FSM (formerly Fighting Spirit Magazine), claims that WWe is attempting to manufacture WM moments and that it is not the 'showcase of the immortals' or 'the grandest stage of them all'. Here's what I'm putting out to y'all... have we grown jaded about WM and just regard it as just another PPV (if the only one with a 4 hour running time) or are FSM looking at the 'classic' WMs with rose colored glasses?

Make your vote then make your case folks...

 

[Ferbian]

I still consider Wrestlemania a big deal, it is definitely the show where you get some of the better matches, the pay per view matches are made a little longer, the better feuds are made for this show.

You get people that haven't faced each other before, or rarely ever faced, facing off at Wrestlemania, you get former partners or friends, feuds that people have been hungering for etc.

Taking that into consideration, and the fact that WWE hasn't seemed to cool down on Wrestlemania at any point when it comes to creating the best of the best for the show, I don't think WWE and Wrestlemania has "lost it's lustre".

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I still consider Wrestlemania a big deal, it is definitely the show where you get some of the better matches, the pay per view matches are made a little longer, the better feuds are made for this show.

You get people that haven't faced each other before, or rarely ever faced, facing off at Wrestlemania, you get former partners or friends, feuds that people have been hungering for etc.

Taking that into consideration, and the fact that WWE hasn't seemed to cool down on Wrestlemania at any point when it comes to creating the best of the best for the show, I don't think WWE and Wrestlemania has "lost it's lustre".

I agree with the points that you have made... traditionally WM buildups start at RR, and the Elimination Chamber is also a build up show. Shawn Michaels last three WM performances ARE the things of legend.

However, as a counter point. The main events don't seem to have had the 'feel' recently - the elaborate introductions and the fact that they now run to the next PPV. WM used to be the culmination of feuds - the New Years Eve if you like with new feuds starting in the New Year.

I'm kinda betwixt and between here... I do think that WWe genuinely puts great effort into WM; and with Flair's exit and UT/ HBK the last two years there is the genuine old school WM feel. But 4 of the top line matches from WM where repeated at Extreme rules and repeating a match puts a certain duty of care on the participants to try and surpass their previous effort, meaning that the WM matches should be inferior to the Extreme Rules matches

 

[XgringolocoX]

It's lost some of it's luster, IMO.
I grew up in the 80's and remember WM was THE EVENT. Sure it had a bunch to do with Hogan being in his prime, but there were other things.
The celebrity involvment has dwindled. This past year had no one...well ok Fantasia sang..doesn't count. It felt like it was just match after match. They didn't do anything to make me feel like I was watching something bigger than what was inthe ring.
Having a Divas match on the card isn't acceptable. They fucking suck. That match was SO poorly done I was screaming at my TV to give my fucking money back. This should be the premire event for the company, putting on sub par matches shouldn't be allowed.
Watch the McCool/Tiffany match for this past weeks Superstars. THAT'S a Divas match that should be on WM. HOGSPLASH!!!!! (never gets old lol).
Saying WM moments feel contrived or forced is like bitching that the winners are predetermined. It's scripted after all. For me it felt more rushed than anything else. I was disappointed with the overall presentation.
Nice topic btw.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

It's absolutely lost a ton of it's luster, and I blame that primarily on the fact that the company itself has lost a ton of it's character and personality – two things over half their roster can no longer lay claim to.

Back when WM was the be-all-end-all, the feuds were run by a cast of characters that were fantastically loveable or hateable – there was hardly any greyarea/middle ground. It was rare there was a match on the entire card that you might not particularly care about – even rarer a match that you'd actually not want to watch.

Fast forward to now and you've got card-carrying members of the DPC involved in the companies highest profile feuds heading into WM, and you wonder why the question is being asked? Had these guys had a snippet of the personality that incredible performers like Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Ted DiBiase, Kurt Angle, Steve Austin, Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Scott Hall/Razor Ramon, Ultimate Warrior, etc. all had and you'd have a much tougher time even formulating the question, because the likelihood it would be warranted would be slim-to-none.

 

[Ferbian]

However, as a counter point. The main events don't seem to have had the 'feel' recently - the elaborate introductions and the fact that they now run to the next PPV. WM used to be the culmination of feuds - the New Years Eve if you like with new feuds starting in the New Year.

Sure but there's also feuds that simply are at the strength that needs to be continued, John Cena vs Batista couldn't just end after one pay per view match, and it didn't, which was a good move because people seemed to love that feud, at least I can say I did.

There's feuds that ends at Wrestlemania, and there's feuds that continue after Wrestlemania, just because of that doesn't necessarily mean that it should be considered a flaw in the popularity and importance of Wrestlemania, because it still is considered the grandest stage of wrestling, and the flagship Pay Per View of WWE.

 

[BudGood19]

WrestleMania moments have always been manufactured. It's entertainment manufactured by Vince McMahon. However, since its inception, performers have become less character driven and PPV's have become less significant due to an oversaturated market. Therefore, the performaners are not the larger than life "immortals" that they use to be and the "grandest stage of them all" has more competition from other PPV's. Maybe WrestleMania doesn't seem to be as magical of a night that it used tot be for those watchin it since the beginning, but for those just catching on to WWE, I'm sure it's just a big of a deal.

 

[darksideon]

Every year i think wrestlemania will be a good but not great show, but the night before mania i always get that buzz feeling and the last 4 years have not disappointed me. Personally i don't think it has lost it's luster, when you have 13 cities fighting to host it i think that shows it's still a big deal.

 

[LokiCobain]

Not only do I feel that Wrestlemania has lost its "lustre", it isn't even remotely entertaining, or rather, hasn't been the last few years. I've been a lifelong WWE fan, and if you get the Wrestlemania Box Set, you can see the slow decay. It's painful to watch really. I cared more about the matches with the short buildup you get on DVDs that happened before I was born than I did for ones I watched "culminate" over months.

I voted that it's just like all the other PPVs, and it is, and that's not a good thing. This past Wrestlemania was the last time I ordered a WWE PPV. If Wrestlemania did nothing for me, its not worth the $55 every month. Had I not spent that money on it, I would've turned it off completely. $55 is not worth a Money in the Bank ladder match. If the whole PPV becomes worth it based on little "moments", then I'll wait until Part II of the WM Box Set and get the bits and pieces.

But I will say this, the fault isn't on WWE or Wrestlemania or turning PG. The fault is that wrestling in general is not as popular as it was during the 90s. It developed a stigma that made the ratings today half of what they were then. There isn't going to be another Hulk Hogan because in the 80s, wrestling was a big deal. Society valued the sport. That's not the case anymore. And that's probably a huge factor on why Vince had to change business strategies (going "PG", or at least re-orienting toward the younger kids for toys, shirts, etc). The product in general is hurting, so of course there won't be this "grand stage" that can compare to the Super Bowl. You went from Lawrence Taylor to the Steelers offensive line. The mainstream society doesn't care.

The "Showcase of the Immortals" relies on the premise that wrestling can "immortalize" someone. That's simply not the case anymore. The Rock was the last Hogan, and even he has a stigma that he carries around with him for wrestling.

 

[BWEEZY2009]

To the wrestling fan of course it's lost some of its fire.

But to Vinny Mac and the town that is hosting it, It couldn't be better.

Was it 23 that was at Ford Field in Detroit? I remember hearing just the weekend alone raised Detroit over 35 Million (well needed since the auto industry tanked that year)

PPV buy rates are great, merchandise is better than ever.

But the answer to your question.. of course it has..

I think you need to add a couple more poll options. I feel myself and a lot of the poster will fall in between those two sentences.

 

[boozinjedi]

It has lost a little bit of luster...

back in the day when there were only the 4 core PPVs
WM held that much more meaning,

It still holds a place as THE big one of the year,but with monthly PPVs...I can see how some would say the luster has dulled a bit.

 

[PantsInMaJizz]

I've felt that ever since Wrestlemania 21, there haven't been any WM "moments".

I believe that the main cause is the missing "chase" for the belt. Because the same guys are main eventing Wrestlemania, and basically giving us the same matches, we don't feel that there is going to be a moment that is in your mind forever. The Royal Rumble winners are also at fault, as they are already people who have main evented, and therefore give the main event nothing to look forward to:

Wrestlemania XIX: Brock Lesnar - Great! We could finally see a long feud between the two best workers ever at Wrestlemania = Shooting Star Press from a 6'4 giant!

Wrestlemania XX: Chris Benoit - The Best RR winner...ever... Everyone was behind Benoit for firstly: getting a title shot after years of great work, secondly: giving us not 1, but two guys who could finally dethrone HHH after 2 years of terror and dominance. Also, we got that graffiti moment with Eddie Guerrero that will forever be remembered.

Wrestlemania 21: Batista - Okay, the final implosion of Evolution... I still enjoyed HHH get destroyed, even though I was upset that Randy Orton didn't get the RR win (his match with Taker was more valuable)... A good end with a full stop to HHH

WM 22: Rey Mysterio - Due to Eddie

WM 23: UNDERTAKER!: WTF, this guy can get a title match without a RR win? WHY WHY WHY? Just to fit HBK and TAker into this PPV?

WM 24: Cena: The most over guy and recently longest reigning champ get back to back shots leading up to WM? NO!

WM 25: Randy Orton deserved this when he was the "Legend Killer". Sure, a good feud was made out of it, but he got destroyed vs HHH in a high caliber squash match. They could have just given it to The Big Show or Christian, so he could have faced Jack Swagger for the ECW Championship (not realistic), and raised the value of the ECW belt to the equivalent of the WWE or WHC.

WM 26: Edge: Not now! There are so many guys in the back that could have used it. Obviously a face could have used it to win a title off someone big (Batista?). The only problem was that there were more over heels than faces.

I also blame the depth of the characters, as the heels aren't as good as HHH was in making people hate him so much, that they would kill him.

Solution: Make a heel dominate the WHC or WWE Championship for the whole year, make him drop it once, and then get it back in a cheap way... At the same time, on the opposite show, build a new face to be over. Beating the dominant heel will get this guys so over, he won't need a promo ever....again.

 

[mikeyboy]

the build up of the story lines leading up to wrestlemania tend to be better than the rest of the year and up until this year wm was still the best wwe ppv of the year, if this year was any indication of where its going then its no better than any other ppv.
ITS DAMN REAL hit the nail on the head with his statement that its lost its luster because wwe has lost its luster

 

[The Viper Orton]

Well since wrestlemania XX, what made wrestlemania more amazing were shawn michaels matches nothing more or less. I mean, ric flair, vince mcmahon(if im correct) and undertaker twice where the only matches that made us feel it was the grandest stage of them all. Next to that where all normal matches and yet somehow the next ppv, the extreme rules, backlash etc... I ussually enjoyed most as they become unexpected (not this year)

 

[Captain America]

Just like the Gahden will always be the Gahden, Mania will always be Mania. It just has too much history and too much nostalgia for it to ever really lose its luster.

 

[mreastbay]

Wrestlemania are only as good as the roster you have, and the matches you put together. So no, WM hasnt lost its luster. It never will. There will always be the hype, the moments from the past. Its the beginning to the time line in every WWE year. They asked the "Lost Luster" question after WM9, over 15 years later, its still going> and dont forget CITIES FIGHT OVER who gets to host it........and world over, people still save over the year for that trip to WM. Lost luster? no way man.

 

[waylonmercy]

Wrestlemania will officially lose its lustre when its PPV numbers are similar to its 2nd highest PPV in buyrate. Until then it will be their most illustrious event. WM still features the dream matches or the climax to all major feuds for that period. It's not a blow-off show that features main events with 2 wrestlers thrown together. I believe it all boils down to people EXPECTING too much and the bar has been raised too high as it is. How do you top a TLC match w/ Dudleys/E&C/Hardy Boyz for spots? Its difficult to top the reaction Hogan got against the Rock in Toronto where the fans assisted in Hogan turning face. We'll never see a person like Andre The Giant who was *undefeated* for 20+ years and kayfabe NEVER been slammed before being slammed and defeated by their most beloved talent. This past Wrestlemania was not rated as the worst WM ever and even if some moments are pushed harder, its more of an attempt to add lustre to the event. This year Michaels vs UT had a great WM quality storyline. Last year they had one of their best matches in years together. The year before Ric Flair was *retired* by Michaels. I don't see these occurances happening on normal PPVs and it seems the talent goes the extra mile to deliver a better event. It appears more and more that celebrities are only involved in WM matches like Trump, Mayweather, Tyson and other big name celebrities showing up.

 

[hhhfactor]

I honestly don't think that Wrestlemania is living up to his fully potential. Usually starting at the Royal Rumble feuds are set up to establish the Wrestlemania card. So much consideration and time is put into the WWE title match, World Heavyweight title match, or the career streak of the Undertaker that the other matches are sloppily put together. They put a lot of unecessary matche to try and include everybody. There is no buildup or tension between superstars. There is nothing at stake such as a career, overcoming impossible odds, upset title shot, or showcasing new talent. Wow, just randomly having a battle royal and the winner gets a title shot or a tagteam turmoil. These are not quality matches. You would think that the WWE would plan out tentatively the entire card months before and then spend weeks developing storylines for every match on the card. Imagine being the superstar who wrestles for the first time at Wrestlemania just to find that the creative team put no effort into your matchup and that is the bathroom break for everything.

 

[mister_b1LL]

WrestleMania is never lackluster, I mean it's WrestleMania. It's a wrestler's Mecca to perform on the grandest stage of them all and every competitor participating shows just how much they want to be a part of it. Now granted the past few one's have not been comparable to say, 3 or 17 or 19, but it doesn't mean it's not gonna be good. Every WM has had at least one match that people will remember that WM for, even if the entire card is unmemorable. Take 25, the only match they remember from that one was Taker/Michaels.

The mystique behind WrestleMania is still around it and it's evident in how much they build it up beginning at the Royal Rumble. They save their best storylines and feuds for the last couple months before a WrestleMania. And during this time EVERYBODY talks about the buildup, which adds to the mystique of WM. They're wondering how will the feud end. Like I remember when everybody was talking about who Flair was gonna have his farewell match against and when we found out it was Michaels that just made us all the more excited for WM.

So to answer the question: No. WrestleMania has not lost it's luster. It's still a wonderful sight to see, and like I said before, it's freaking WrestleMania!

 

[billm75]

I have to say it's lost some of it's appeal to me, but I think that comes with age and experience, not so much a lack of effort on anyone's part in the business.

When I was a kid, I loved this stuff, thought it was real, etc. Then, when I was 15, i got the chance to go to Toronto for WM 6. That was amazing to me.

Now, though, I don't look forward to it near as much as I used to and I guess its because I'm jaded. I remember loving this for so many reasons when I was younger, and now, I follow it not because I simply HAVE TO SEE IT, but because it's a fun distraction. I don't schedule my tv viewing around the wrestling shows anymore, I don't save my pennies for months to buy a ticket when they come through town, and I'm well aware that it's no more than entertainment.

So, if WM has lost any luster, I believe it's because I have changed as I've aged and I think that's the main reason most people would agree with me. The effort's still there, the youthful portion of their fanbase still thinks it's the "SUPERBOWL" of Pro Wrestling, so they're doing plenty right.

 

[Coco]

This thread is silly, as are most like it.

Look at the WrestleMania's over the years. Watch each of them from cover to cover. What you should notice is that around 2001, quality sky-rockets. There's nowhere near as much plodding filler as there was in the olden times. That's not to say that there's not some fluff these days, but you get far more MAJOR matches these days, IMHO. And those major matches take up a larger portion of the show than they did way back when.

Look at the "worst" WrestleManias post-2001 and how many majors matches are on them:

WrestleMania 20: Benoit vs. Triple H vs. HBK, Taker vs. Kane, Eddie vs. Angle, Goldberg vs. Lesnar, Jericho vs. Christian

WretleMania 23: Cena vs. Michaels, Taker vs. Batista, a top notch MITB match, BOTBs.

WrestleMania 25: Cena vs. Edge vs. Show, Taker vs. HBK, Triple H vs. Orton, Hardy vs. Hardy, MITB, Jericho vs. Legends (You could consider Rey vs. JBL a big deal too, if you want)

Those shows average out as more stacked than most of the early ones. The only real exception to the "post-2001 is better" rule is WM18, but that still had one of the greatest Mania moments ever, so it's not exactly like that show lacked lustre.

As for manufactured moments, what makes the moment of the past so much more genuine? We only remember many of them because we're reminded of them in video packages every few months. Doesn't that make them just as manufacture?

Honestly, threads like these make me shake my head. While one could argue that the PPV market being so oversaturated hurts Mania, it's not like you don't get something very special every year at Mania. I find this entire premise and discussion to be rather silly.

 

[Widdows]

I still think that Mania is the top PPV in Pro Wrestling and that will never change. But things need to change external to Wrestlemania, i.e. the 'themed' PPV's.
I think Michaels vs Taker would have been epic in a Hell In A Cell match, but as there was a PPV branded at HIAC, it would have taken away from it.
So unfortunately, it has, in my opinion, lost it's lustre.

 

[Coco]

I still think that Mania is the top PPV in Pro Wrestling and that will never change. But things need to change external to Wrestlemania, i.e. the 'themed' PPV's.
I think Michaels vs Taker would have been epic in a Hell In A Cell match, but as there was a PPV branded at HIAC, it would have taken away from it.
So unfortunately, it has, in my opinion, lost it's lustre.

So rather than senseless gimmickry on other shows, you want the senseless gimmickry at Mania. Is that it?

It was HBK and Taker's first match in a year and was anticipated enough without the stipulation. Why am I to believe that a big cage would have enhanced the experience? Did we not get a Mania moment or two out of that bout? Yes? Then what are you complaining about? How is this an example of lustre that was lost?

I'd also like to point out that the only HIAC match at Mania was an eye sore. Why do we need more of such gimmickry when the moment itself and other emotional investment makes most Mania matches special?

I don't buy your post for one moment. You're talking shit.

 

[Widdows]

So rather than senseless gimmickry on other shows, you want the senseless gimmickry at Mania. Is that it?

It was HBK and Taker's first match in a year and was anticipated enough without the stipulation. Why am I to believe that a big cage would have enhanced the experience? Did we not get a Mania moment or two out of that bout? Yes? Then what are you complaining about? How is this an example of lustre that was lost?

I'd also like to point out that the only HIAC match at Mania was an eye sore. Why do we need more of such gimmickry when the moment itself and other emotional investment makes most Mania matches special?

I don't buy your post for one moment. You're talking shit.

No.
My point was that we get burned out by watching the themed PPV's all year that there is nothing to look forward to at Mania.
I personally prefer Elimination Chamber/No Way Out than Mania, but if the 'other' PPV's were just normal/standard like they used to be, then there would be a bigger hype for Wrestlemania.
So therefore, you Sir, are talking shit, so post your opinion on the topic of Mania being lacklustre or not if you don't believe it is.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

This thread is silly, as are most like it.

This was the headline and main article in a British wrestling magazine. I was giving the WZs international community their chance to, as Konnan would put it, speak on this. It has garnered alot of debate and is running very close on the pro and con side. You yourself, have put across a very compelling argument for your own case. If my thread insults you so why'd you bother your ?