Has Rob Van Dam's utility as a performer diminished?

[AegonTargaryen]

I just saw the final list of superstars who'll compete in the MITB ladder match for the WWE WHC and the list looks impressive. The first thing I think about when I visualize all those men together is that this is the FIRST most star-studded MITB ladder match ever, without any mid-carders or jobber superstars like Kofi Kingston involved. If I'm not mistaken, the MITB they had last year for the WWE championship contract had this clause where only former WWE/World champions could compete in it and so it could be said to be an awesome match with no jobbers and mid-carders.

I also remember that Rob Van Dam's return was heavily advertised and he was directly inserted into the MITB match for the WWE title contract. Now, 11 months later, WWE has this big MITB match, which IMO is potentially the best/biggest/most star-studded MITB match EVER, and the participants include 3 non-world-champions in Cesaro, Bray Wyatt, and Roman Reigns. I believe that this is a very smart thing to do because these 3 represent, in variable capacities, the main eventers and the stars of the future. Along with these will compete the usual spotlight stealers John Cena and Randy Orton, and Sheamus and Alberto Del Rio.

Now, it's no big deal if WWE omits Jack Swagger, Big Show, or Mark Henry for this match, or even Kane. I mean, 2 of those guys are grotesque to imagine climbing a ladder anyways. And if the WWE can do so much for Alberto Del Rio(who is an excellent wrestler), then why not Rob Van Dam?

I have also noticed that the cheers/pops for Van Dam have diminished considerably, his entrances are accompanied by "oh he's here" and mechanized responses. Even Cesaro gets louder pops despite being a "Paul Heyman" guy. Also consider that Rob Van Dam has not been given any priority, or any single definite program yet. I can understand that the WWE has an amazing and talented roster right now , and it's difficult to give everyone titles, but in Van Dam's case, he's getting NOTHING- No IC title, no US title, no MITB, nor any world championship match coming along. Heck, it's safe to say that Van Dam , despite his longevity, his talent and his track record, is another Dolph Ziggler or Damien Sandow..unless they do something with him.

Do you think Rob Van Dam's utility as a performer has diminished, or that he is considered not that worthy by the WWE, and is now just "taken for granted" as one of the WWE's performers whom they'll only "go to" when there's dearth?

 

[MC_Live]

RVD is a peculiar case. He established himself long ago as a big, main event guy. As long as he's given the proper platform to perform, he'll look good. But he just doesn't get that platform. Since he's supposedly working 3 months on 3 months off, there's not a whole lot to do with the guy when he's actually there. If he were to get any championship reigns, the longest they could be would be 3 months. Which means he would have to come back and out of the blue win a championship with little to no build up or storyline. So the options for RVD title runs are so minuscule that they're almost pointless to do. Sure, maybe he could hold the IC Title for 30 days or something, but in the long run that might not mean a whole lot, so there's no point in doing it. His job at this point is to come out, get some nostalgia pops with the Rolling Thunder and the Five Star, and put over the young guys. Now, if done properly that should be a 100% positive thing. But it seldom has been done properly. And it's not completely RVD's fault. Look at the company as a whole. A majority of the product recently just seems to be under utilized talent and under developed ideas. It seems more often than not WWE drops the ball on most of their superstars and story lines, and RVD is a pretty big example of that. Should it mean more when RVD is on screen? Absolutely. Sadly, it's up to WWE to make RVD as big a deal as he can be, and they just don't seem too focused on developing anything that doesn't involve Triple H or his buddies. And I don't want to be one of those IWC guys who calls Triple H an ego maniac and blames him for everything, but recently the facts seem to build up. How many story lines/angles has WWE done recently and not screwed up in some form or fashion? How many of those didn't involve Triple H, John Cena, or Randy Orton? At this point in time, WWE barely knows how to use anyone to their maximum potential. RVD is no exception.

 

[JJV]

I felt bad for Van Dam when he got eliminated by Bo Dallas in the battle royal on Raw. Such a shame. Tbh, I wouldn't mind Van Dam dethroning Barrett... that way Barrett can move up the ladder to the main event while Van Dam will get some relevance again. I remember at one point when wrestlers had brutal matches and long feuds over the Intercontinental championship; Razor Ramon v Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio v Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho, The Rock v Triple H and Randy Orton vs Mick Foley to name a few. I guess 2009 was the last year WWE actually cared for the Intercontinental championship. Rey's feuds with Jericho and Ziggler were awesome! Morrison as champ was good as well, and McIntyre was simply amazing when he dethroned Morrison. But what happened after that?

WWE should book long feuds over the Intercontinental championship like how they used to before. So many talents are being wasted and a lot of time on Raw is filled with lame comedy segments and short matches that make no sense. Oh and of course, 'earlier on Raw' also takes a lot of time lol. They can really use guys like Jack Swagger, Damien Sandow, Kofi Kingston and Rob Van Dam in the mid card. If they give them time on the mic and a good storyline, I'm pretty sure they'll do great and they can all be relevant again

 

[AegonTargaryen]

RVD is a peculiar case. He established himself long ago as a big, main event guy. As long as he's given the proper platform to perform, he'll look good. But he just doesn't get that platform. Since he's supposedly working 3 months on 3 months off, there's not a whole lot to do with the guy when he's actually there. If he were to get any championship reigns, the longest they could be would be 3 months. Which means he would have to come back and out of the blue win a championship with little to no build up or storyline. So the options for RVD title runs are so minuscule that they're almost pointless to do. Sure, maybe he could hold the IC Title for 30 days or something, but in the long run that might not mean a whole lot, so there's no point in doing it. His job at this point is to come out, get some nostalgia pops with the Rolling Thunder and the Five Star, and put over the young guys. Now, if done properly that should be a 100% positive thing. But it seldom has been done properly. And it's not completely RVD's fault. Look at the company as a whole. A majority of the product recently just seems to be under utilized talent and under developed ideas. It seems more often than not WWE drops the ball on most of their superstars and story lines, and RVD is a pretty big example of that. Should it mean more when RVD is on screen? Absolutely. Sadly, it's up to WWE to make RVD as big a deal as he can be, and they just don't seem too focused on developing anything that doesn't involve Triple H or his buddies. And I don't want to be one of those IWC guys who calls Triple H an ego maniac and blames him for everything, but recently the facts seem to build up. How many story lines/angles has WWE done recently and not screwed up in some form or fashion? How many of those didn't involve Triple H, John Cena, or Randy Orton? At this point in time, WWE barely knows how to use anyone to their maximum potential. RVD is no exception.

Absolutely agreed with all the points you've made. I didn't even think in the lines that every major storyline , in a way or another, has been revolving around "HHH and his buddies", or the same old established superstars John Cena and Randy Orton, with the exception of Daniel Bryan and the YES movement, which can be safely considered to be the past now. The only superstars I think that have managed to stay relevant and/or have been given things to do by the Creative, are Sheamus and Wade Barrett(which is very recent), Bray Wyatt, Cesaro, and The Shield.

I don't know if it's just because of the multiplicity of superstars in the WWE right now, or factors such as the 3-month schedule Van Dam does and HHH being an egomaniac, Rob Van Dam should have at least been given a spot in the MITB(and if Del Rio did, then what bad is Van Dam?). It's like they invest so much money in a part-timer, bring him back only for 3 month schedules, and then treat him subserviently only in his second 3-month return. As far as you saying that one month IC title reigns don't matter or won't matter, that is proper for superstars that are new or have never held the title. But when guys like Chris Jericho or Rob Van Dam are involved, even a one month title reign is good. Chris Jericho won the title from Mysterio on one ppv in 2009, but dropped it on the next ppv, which was overall an amazing rivalry in 2009 and one of the best IC/personal feuds ever. I think Rob Van Dam should've/could've won the IC title from Barrett and dropped it within a month or two, and it would've still been better than most things the WWE has done lately with the IC title(including the Big E reign).

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I felt bad for Van Dam when he got eliminated by Bo Dallas in the battle royal on Raw. Such a shame. Tbh, I wouldn't mind Van Dam dethroning Barrett... that way Barrett can move up the ladder to the main event while Van Dam will get some relevance again. I remember at one point when wrestlers had brutal matches and long feuds over the Intercontinental championship; Razor Ramon v Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio v Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho, The Rock v Triple H and Randy Orton vs Mick Foley to name a few. I guess 2009 was the last year WWE actually cared for the Intercontinental championship. Rey's feuds with Jericho and Ziggler were awesome! Morrison as champ was good as well, and McIntyre was simply amazing when he dethroned Morrison. But what happened after that?

WWE should book long feuds over the Intercontinental championship like how they used to before. So many talents are being wasted and a lot of time on Raw is filled with lame comedy segments and short matches that make no sense. Oh and of course, 'earlier on Raw' also takes a lot of time lol. They can really use guys like Jack Swagger, Damien Sandow, Kofi Kingston and Rob Van Dam in the mid card. If they give them time on the mic and a good storyline, I'm pretty sure they'll do great and they can all be relevant again

Exactly! I think Van Dam is one of the few guys that is still synonymous and picturesque with the IC title, along with Chris Jericho. Heck, you can put Chris Jericho or Rob Van Dam vs Fandango for the IC title on any given day, even on Smackdown , and they will make the title look like it's the WHC main-event. They're that good.

I also think that I have not really known/been invested in any single IC feud(if there have been any) since the Mysterio-Jericho feud of 2009. I do remember McIntyre as champion, but that's the last. I don't think Big E as IC champion was good or suited his character. IC title has a glorious history, and is especially associated with technical in-ring spectacles, which only the likes of Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit , and Rob Van Dam have ever been synonymous with. Thus, Big E should've been given the US title, but that's a pointless shouldacouldawoulda now.

But I agree that if anything, Rob Van Dam could at least elevate Wade Barrett and incidentally elevate the IC title as a prestigious title once again. But lets not hope too much from the WWE, not for the IC title.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Considering that RVD's deal states that he works for 90 days before taking an extended hiatus, he's being used the best way that he can be. They're not going to do anything bigger than ultimately using him to put over other stars and/or put him in a title picture as a challenger. I mean, why should they? He's well into his 40s, so he's not "the future" of WWE nor is he a big enough star that can be used as a special attraction like Taker, Lesnar or The Rock.

At this point in his life, RVD is simply looking to get paid, so WWE figures they may as well utilize what value his name brings to the table.

 

[BreezyDaProtege]

RVD can still go and is making good money with a light schedule. I think he is being used in a way how Jimmy Snuka was at the tail end of his career, beating jobbers and mid card era but helping make future stars look good. He had a hell of career and honestly him in the ladder match is adding more damage to his body for a match that doesn't need him. They used him in a fued with Del Rio his first run and this time in the IC with Barrett and incorporating Cesaro. He was been used the best he could.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

RVD is most likely being maximized for his value. He's a 40-something year old wrestler who still gets a decent pop, still gets pushed as someone that you can't take for granted, still gets pushed as a potential threat to take the US or IC title, and can still deliver a quality match. I've never been particularly big on RVD: He was missing moves long before John Morrison ever set foot in a ring. But there's no doubt that he's got a good gig going with the WWE right now. I just don't think we can expect him to be a true main event player.

He's a B+ player.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

GSB Theater proudly presents a thread that would exist if RVD won the opportunity to be in the MITB ladder match:

I can't believe they put RVD in this match. We all know he is going to be gone in two months and there is no way he is going to win the title with Cena or HHH's buddies Sheamus and Orton in the match. It is such a waste. WWE must think we are stupid or something. Vince has no idea what he is doing.

and scene

WWE is doing fine with RVD. He is filler/enhancement talent. They have dedicated a lot of time to build other guys and they still have their top guys to deliver. People like seeing him for what might be the final farewell tour. They like saying R-V-D and doing the thumb thing. They like rolling thunder for some unknown reason. Some people thing Jerry Lynn is going to come through the curtain and the two are going to put on the same caliber of matches they had from 15 years ago.

But yes, RVD had lost utility as a performer. He's lost a step, can't do the things in WWE that he did in other promotions. He doesn't have Alfonso on the whistle. He over 40 but still has a burn out pony tail. People bitch about Cena being stale. RVD hasn't changed an ounce.

He is still a good performer and is currently adding value to WWE programming but they have to focus on the future as well as the present. RVD is just too much of the past but not enough to matter during a three month stint.

 

[Mustang Sally]

RVD can still go and is making good money with a light schedule.

Agreed. For nostalgia sake alone, fans seem to love seeing him, which is a quality his employer has to love given that many performers garner no reaction at all from the audience.

RVD's future career plans are easy to calculate, too; they can be ignored since we have no idea how long he wants to carry on as an active performer. As long as fans continue to appreciate him in the ring, the company will keep on renewing his contract. Championships are optional, though unimportant to what he's doing.

Of course, his ever-expanding waistline and the accompanying slowing down of his ring routine might cause fans to eventually tire of watching him lug his bulk through a match. If that happens, he'll probably be happy to call it a day. Guy's got the world on a string, no?

Then again, if his purpose is continuing for awhile in order to earn retirement money, wouldn't it have been smarter for him not to take that hiatus before joining TNA? He was younger and in better shape than he's been since returning to WWE; he might have been able to earn more money to support his family in later years by putting up with the WWE grind instead of pursuing other interests between 2007-13.

Has RVDs performance diminished? Absolutely, yes......but he's one of the few guys who can keep on doing what he wants to do despite that.

Good for him, I suppose.

 

[TDFG]

Given his schedule, RVD will be the same as Y2J, he'll pick some wins but essentially he is there to put talent over. If RVD was to sign a one year deal then he'd maybe get the US/IC Title for a while, but at the minute his deal is working well for everyone.

 

[Aquaman6686]

RVD can still go better than most guys on the roster, and I feel he should be in the WWE World Heavyweight Championship Ladder Match. I disagree that this is the most "star-studded" MITB match ever, to me the inclusions of Bray Wyatt, Roman Reigns, and Antonio Cesaro prevent it from being such. Take those three out (and put them in the MITB briefcase match instead) and replace them with Rob Van Dam, Dolph Ziggler, and either Kane/Miz/Jack Swagger/Big Show, then you've got the most star-studded match in MITB history.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

RVD can still go better than most guys on the roster, and I feel he should be in the WWE World Heavyweight Championship Ladder Match. I disagree that this is the most "star-studded" MITB match ever, to me the inclusions of Bray Wyatt, Roman Reigns, and Antonio Cesaro prevent it from being such. Take those three out (and put them in the MITB briefcase match instead) and replace them with Rob Van Dam, Dolph Ziggler, and either Kane/Miz/Jack Swagger/Big Show, then you've got the most star-studded match in MITB history.

Well I know that none of Roman Reigns, Bray Wyatt, and Cesaro are "established superstars" as in main-eventers and world champions, but they're at this point where they cannot be said to be potential stars either. It's like John Cena and Randy Orton in 2004 and we knew, howsoever vaguely, that they're going to be the future- the immediate future too. What they lack by never having been world champions, they fulfill by being unique(Bray Wyatt), absolutely amazing in the ring(Cesaro), and a combination of charisma, good looks and brute strength(Roman Reigns). I don't think that Kane, or Big Show represent, at this point, anything but old, stale, and boring from 1999 days.

Nonetheless, even if you add Kane, or Big Show instead, neither of the two bring half the stardom, charisma or talent to the match as can do the other three, which shoudn't even be arguable. Most people consider Kane to be totally washed-up, boring, and a "moving" version of Big Show. They've been vocal about how involving Kane with Daniel Bryan is worthless because they all know he's not going to win, he's 47, etc. I don't even have to mention how unsuited Big Show and Mark Henry are for a normal MITB ladder match ,leave aside this one.

Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, and Miz are no more stars than are Cesaro/Reigns/Wyatt. In fact, the former are doomed to be where they are, or worse. I think everybody here and everybody out there in the arenas in one way or another consider Cesaro/Reigns/Wyatt to be future main-eventers. As much as I like Dolph Ziggler or Damien Sandow, I don't think replacing Reigns/Wyatt/Cesaro with any of those will make this match more star-studded. But yeah, if anybody could be removed from it to be replaced by Rob Van Dam, it should/could be either of Sheamus or Alberto Del Rio. While I like both men and think them excellent to watch in the ring, neither are really "superstars" IMO, and never were/will be at the level of John Cena and Randy Orton, or even CM Punk.

 

[kadroan]

I think he's fine at what's he doing, putting over young talent and good matches.

This isn't early 2000's RVD where him not being would be an obvious mistake. I just think at this point of his career, he's best used as a stepping stone for younger talent.

I'm sure he gets paid well and enjoy the light schedule. Maybe he'll be in the second MITB match

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I think he's fine at what's he doing, putting over young talent and good matches.

This isn't early 2000's RVD where him not being would be an obvious mistake. I just think at this point of his career, he's best used as a stepping stone for younger talent.

I'm sure he gets paid well and enjoy the light schedule. Maybe he'll be in the second MITB match

Now that they've announced a second MITB match for a contract, I think he'll definitely be in it, and so shall Wade Barrett and Dean Ambrose and there's some likelihood of Kane being in it. I just hope they don't add Big E, Kofi Kingston or Fandango in it! Dolph Ziggler and Damien Sandow deserve to be in too.