Has Raw gotten into a lull?

[AegonTargaryen]

I'm aware this is the Holiday Season and Monday Night Raw isn't usually exciting every single one of the 52 weeks a year.

I'm also aware they've done a few novel things, like the Jason Jordan illegitimate son angle, the influx of NxT wrestlers Paige/Absolution, "woken" Matt Hardy, etc.

But I wanted to ask you guys your thoughts about this, for various reasons.

First is that this is a weird time where Raw doesn't have anything to progress toward, from Survivor Series until the Royal Rumble, which is exactly 10-11 weeks.

Back in 2005, Eric Bischoff introduced the New Year's Revolution PPV for Raw in early January and we had an elimination chamber, and then another one in 2006, and in 2007 you had the DX-Rated RKO feud as a selling point for that show. Then they did away with Unibrand PPVs so Raw and Smackdown both would progress from Armageddon in December to the Royal Rumble.

Now the thing is, what do you really do with all that time between PPVs with these Raw wrestlers?

There's only so many times you can have the titles switch hands, which brings me to

Two:-Absent Universal Champion.

There was a time when Kurt Angle was champion back in late-2000 and Austin had returned and begun feuding with Rikishi and HHH.

Every other week on Raw there would be a #1 contender's match for Angle's WWF title and the winner would go on to face him for the title on SMACKDOWN that very week. One such person was Austin. Angle vs Austin, on Smackdown.

In fact, such classics happened on TV so frequently that it's a joke, including Austin vs Angle, Rock vs Angle, and more.

More importantly, the atmosphere, the whole period was so exciting. Would Angle finally lose his title? Would Austin win? And everybody would follow Raw and Smackdown and those matches were better than most Wrestlemania feuds nowadays, or most PPV feuds.

Think about it and let it sink in-Angle defended the title in a singles match against Austin, Rock, HHH all in the span of one month, and then went on to compete in the notorious 6-man HIAC. That's how exciting it was.

And now we have a Universal Champion like Lesnar who didn't deliver against Rollins(as WWE WHC), against Ambrose, against Joe, or Strowman. Moreover, he doesn't even care to show up every month.

Personally, I'd prefer a scenario like Dec 2000 where who would win that month's WWF title match was as exciting as a Wrestlemania main event.

In the absence of a Universal Champion, all the focus goes on the champions you have, which brings me to

Three:-Reigns just barely won the IC title a few weeks ago so I can't say the "IC title scene" was exactly bursting before he won, nor it is right now. It's going to take a while.

Similarly, there's only so many times you can have Ambrose and Rollins trade the tag titles with Sheamus and Cesaro.

After all, who else have been contending for those, and is there anybody on the horizon really?

Four:-The seeds for the main feuds for Wrestlemania have been sown.

I'm talking about Kurt Angle and HHH, unless they have intended for a Strowman-HHH match for Mania.

And also, Brock Lesnar vs Roman Reigns seems like a lock, probably even "winner take all" champion vs champion(yes I know it must be a nightmare for those who loathe Reigns)

But again, all of this takes time, it'll be a slow burn until Wrestlemania.

So after considering all these factors, do you agree Raw has gotten into a lull, there's hardly anything exciting happening and they've still got a long time until Rumble comes?

Can they make Raw any exciting in coming weeks and if so, how?

What do you look forward to watching on Raw each week these days?

 

[Vintage Punk]

They've painted themselves into a corner with wanting Reigns vs. Lesnar for title at WM. Not really excited at all to see that headline Mania but even dumber was to put IC title on Reigns so soon. If they wanted to do champion vs champion, they could'vehad him win it at Elimination Chamber. By having him as IC title Champ, it handcuffs all the rest of the roster in not having any chance to win a title since Lesnar has had Univ. title on lock.

They should've had Balor, Joe, Hardy, Rollins, or someone else win that IC title from Miz. I don't disagree that it needed to come off of the Miz as he wasn't doing anything with it, but should've went on someone else so they could setup a feud for it. Would've been a great way to build back up Balor or give Joe a title to dominate.

The main thing is if we pretty much know that they wanna do a champion vs champion with Lesnar and Reigns at WM, then what's the point of open challenges and IC title matches for the fans? We already know Reigns will retain the title till Mania

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

The problem is yet again booking. Yes I've said that a thousand times before, but it's still true.

WWE cannot consistently write compelling storylines. Look at the feud between the Shield and Cesaro, Sheamus, and Joe. Every week it's the same stuff. Some sort of singles or tag match. Heels interfere. Faces make the save. One group gets the upper hand and stands tall. That's just lazy and predictable, and it results in a stale and uninteresting product.

I understand Brock has the Universal Title held up, but they could still come up with something better than what we've gotten the last four months.

Like KB said, would it kill them to come up with something different?

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I feel like we're pretty much armchair quarterbacking this right now. Is the product being boring, Sometimes. But in the end i feel it'S more the signs of the new era of wrestling then anything else that's hurting them. The fact that they have to produce a 3 hours tv show everyweek where they don't have the luxury of doing squash matches anymore is hurting them big time and it's been hurting them since they change the format of booking in 97.

If they could go back to put enhancement matches on Raw or just use one hour of meaningless matches they had more freedom to concentrate themselves to write compelling storylines for the upper card guys and at the same time give a chance to everybody else.

The fact is, they already have the mania card booked and they have a general plan on how they are going to set it up but in the mean time, their stuck in this weird place where they can't started booking anything for the Rumble because of the holiday season and the fact that nobody really watch wrestling during the holiday especially since raw falls on christmas and new year'S day this year so they can do anything really special for those 2 shows. so i'm guessing that next week will get the start of whatever they have plan for lesnar at the rumble and then after the holiday they will continue the build up.

Normally, they know when they're down time is so they get lazy during those periods (september through the end of october and the holiday season) and then things picks up during mania season. While it might hurt them to already have the main matches for mania already booked, i feel the way they get to thoses matches will be interesting even if it's matches that the IWC aren't to excited about .

 

[JoeMallard]

Raw has sucked ever since the Shield got back together, Kane being back on TV and in a main storyline isn't helping either.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

I feel like we're pretty much armchair quarterbacking this right now. Is the product being boring, Sometimes. But in the end i feel it'S more the signs of the new era of wrestling then anything else that's hurting them. The fact that they have to produce a 3 hours tv show everyweek where they don't have the luxury of doing squash matches anymore is hurting them big time and it's been hurting them since they change the format of booking in 97.

If they could go back to put enhancement matches on Raw or just use one hour of meaningless matches they had more freedom to concentrate themselves to write compelling storylines for the upper card guys and at the same time give a chance to everybody else.

May be they SHOULD go back to putting enhancement matches, I feel.

Not every match on Raw has to be a squash or enhancement, but quite a few.

The reason for that, I feel is there is hardly any mystique left in any character or performer when they're on a show every week and when they face each other 4-5 times in a span of 6 months just on TV, and that's excluding their PPV encounters.

For example, Sheamus vs Seth Rollins this week happened for the 4th or 5th time just on Raw, and that's not including their tag team bouts.

Samoa Joe vs Dean Ambrose was of course a first-timer, but I think it too will happen 4-5 times in meaningless Raw matches.

So I think it'd make much more sense if Joe squashed some cruiserweights or tag teams in a handicap match for most of Raws, and his matches against Ambrose, Reigns or Rollins should be treated more like a PPV deal or a once-in-a-blue-moon rare Treat, if they happen on Raw.

Interestingly, Roman Reigns faced Cesaro only for the second time ever on Raw, and yet they've been on the same show for 5 years since Reigns' debut in 2012. Last time they faced off was a WWE championship tournament/Survivor Series qualifying match on Raw back in 2015, the finals of which was ultimately won by Roman and Sheamus cashed in on him, if you remember.

And by the way, Raw's tag team division totally sucks doesn't it!?

There's Anderson and Gallows in a backstage segment and the feeling is, "who cares?"

It's the same old same old in Sheamus&Cesaro dominating the division and no novel matchups.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

May be they SHOULD go back to putting enhancement matches, I feel.

Not every match on Raw has to be a squash or enhancement, but quite a few.

The reason for that, I feel is there is hardly any mystique left in any character or performer when they're on a show every week and when they face each other 4-5 times in a span of 6 months just on TV, and that's excluding their PPV encounters.

For example, Sheamus vs Seth Rollins this week happened for the 4th or 5th time just on Raw, and that's not including their tag team bouts.

Samoa Joe vs Dean Ambrose was of course a first-timer, but I think it too will happen 4-5 times in meaningless Raw matches.

So I think it'd make much more sense if Joe squashed some cruiserweights or tag teams in a handicap match for most of Raws, and his matches against Ambrose, Reigns or Rollins should be treated more like a PPV deal or a once-in-a-blue-moon rare Treat, if they happen on Raw.

Interestingly, Roman Reigns faced Cesaro only for the second time ever on Raw, and yet they've been on the same show for 5 years since Reigns' debut in 2012. Last time they faced off was a WWE championship tournament/Survivor Series qualifying match on Raw back in 2015, the finals of which was ultimately won by Roman and Sheamus cashed in on him, if you remember.

And by the way, Raw's tag team division totally sucks doesn't it!?

There's Anderson and Gallows in a backstage segment and the feeling is, "who cares?"

It's the same old same old in Sheamus&Cesaro dominating the division and no novel matchups.

Completely agree with you on this, That's what made wwe superstars feel special before the attitude era when they started booking star vs star in every match on raw and they keep doing this since then. If you have a top guy like Samoa Joe just go through somebody like a heath Slater or just bring in a enhancement talent and he goes through it and then have who ever he's feuding with and come out, not necessarily for a brawl but to tease something then the feud become more memorable then just have them wrestled each other every week.

As far as the tag division again you right, look at the division, it's pretty much the bar and the shield right now. All the other teams are jokes or have so little focus on them that you forget they exist. I saw heath Slater and rhino on main event Last week and for the life of me, I completely forgot they existed until their match started. Same goes for gallows and Anderson.

 

[stingray11214]

Completely agree with you on this, That's what made wwe superstars feel special before the attitude era when they started booking star vs star in every match on raw and they keep doing this since then. If you have a top guy like Samoa Joe just go through somebody like a heath Slater or just bring in a enhancement talent and he goes through it and then have who ever he's feuding with and come out, not necessarily for a brawl but to tease something then the feud become more memorable then just have them wrestled each other every week.

As far as the tag division again you right, look at the division, it's pretty much the bar and the shield right now. All the other teams are jokes or have so little focus on them that you forget they exist. I saw heath Slater and rhino on main event Last week and for the life of me, I completely forgot they existed until their match started. Same goes for gallows and Anderson.

As for "squash" matches against nobodies: You could get away with that on "Wrestling Challenge" or "Championship Wrestling" back in the day. You pull that on Raw or SmackDown, especially a 3 Hour Raw in the first hour, and a lot of people will turn that dial. Even though it would HELP in storylines, people are not interested in seeing Samoa Joe wrestle Stingray11214, Braun Stroman wrestle Dagger Dias, or the Bludgeon Brothers wrestling Jack Hammer and Slyfox. There is too much caring on ratings and ad buys to do straight squashes.

What you do have is a Septuagenarian who still thinks he is back in 1985, and is trying to look for that "New Hulk Hogan", writing and re-writing complete shows, even as the show is on air. Yes, you need jobbers. Heath Slater is a perfect example. But, there is too much money invested in people to make more jobbers. 30 years ago, James Ellsworth would be on TV for as long as he is able. Not anymore. As long as you have chaos in Creative, nothing will change.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Yet another thread pining after the good ole days of Austin, the Rock, Angle, HHH, 'Taker, Kane, and so on. Listen, and it really hurts me to say this: We're never going to have a period like the late 90's early 00's in wrestling again. EVER! Listen, this isn't me jumping down the OP's throat because I completely agree with him. Raw is in a lull. The thing is, though, that's it's been in a lull for years now. IMO, Raw hasn't been exciting since Punk left. Don't get me wrong, it's had it's weeks where it's been fantastic. A Goldberg appearance here, a Rock show up there, a Lesnar appearance here. It hasn't been consistently exciting since Punk left.

So people ask, "What's the problem?". Well, there's a lot of problems. One of the biggest problems for wrestling today is us. Yes, the IWC is a big problem. First of all, we can never ever be taken by surprise again because we know everything that's going to happen from reading online. Also, we're never satisfied. Even when WWE does something truly great we're online bitching about it. So how can we ever be satisfied when we're unable to be satisfied? Second is that the WWE has no competition. They're the biggest wrestling company in the world and they know it. Back then, they were competing for viewers and it made everyone all the better for it. WWE will probably never face serious competition again and while they might be happy because they know they're going to make all the money for the rest of their lives, their work is seriously going to suffer because of it.

So, is Raw in a lull. Yes. As a matter of fact, the whole of WWE is in a lull. You know what, I'd rather watch WCW near the end of it's run than I would watch Raw or Smackdown right now and folks, that's not good.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

As for "squash" matches against nobodies: You could get away with that on "Wrestling Challenge" or "Championship Wrestling" back in the day. You pull that on Raw or SmackDown, especially a 3 Hour Raw in the first hour, and a lot of people will turn that dial. Even though it would HELP in storylines, people are not interested in seeing Samoa Joe wrestle Stingray11214, Braun Stroman wrestle Dagger Dias, or the Bludgeon Brothers wrestling Jack Hammer and Slyfox. There is too much caring on ratings and ad buys to do straight squashes.

Yet when They do it with the bludgeon brothers on smackdown, it's mostly week one of the highest rated segment on smackdown. When they we'Re doing it with Strowman last year, that segment did very well in the ratings. I'm not saying just doing squash matches during the whole hour but when put in a strategic place on the show, it makes a lot of difference and help beuild a character. If it wasn't for squash matches, Strowman wouldn't be at the level he is today. So saying that a lot of peoples aren't interested in seeing straight up squash matches is saying a lot, if you do one or two with the right characters fans will watch it.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Yet when They do it with the bludgeon brothers on smackdown, it's mostly week one of the highest rated segment on smackdown. When they we'Re doing it with Strowman last year, that segment did very well in the ratings.

Any sources for this? I seriously doubt that squash matches are some of the highest rated segments.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Yes it has. Raw got into a "lull" the moment Brock Lesnar took the Universal Championship hostage. The whole point, within kayfabe, of being a wrestler should be to become a World Champion. I've argued this ever since Brock's other instance of holding a world title hostage. It defeats the purpose of the others being there if there is no top prize up for grabs. Roman having won the Intercontinental Championship made things even worse. Guys like Balor, Strowman, and Joe deserve to have some kind of goal to aim for. I'd argue Seth and Dean are on that list as well of guys who deserve that top prize opportunity, if they weren't tied up feuding with The Bar over the Tag Team Championship. The women have been doing good, but the mens' singles division on Raw has been dying a slow painful death for the past year. Right now there is literally NOTHING for the singles stars. I hate it. With the exception of the Great Balls Of Fire and Summerslam PPV cycles, Smackdown has been the superior brand. With Jinder Mahal as the blue brand's World Champion for most of that timeframe. Let that sink in. Once we have gotten past Roman VS Brock and can all finally move on with our lives, then Raw might exit the "lull" that we are all stuck in due to Vince's stubbornness in forcing Reigns into a top star position.

 

[Navi]

Yes it has. Raw got into a "lull" the moment Brock Lesnar took the Universal Championship hostage. The whole point, within kayfabe, of being a wrestler should be to become a World Champion. I've argued this ever since Brock's other instance of holding a world title hostage. It defeats the purpose of the others being there if there is no top prize up for grabs. Roman having won the Intercontinental Championship made things even worse. Guys like Balor, Strowman, and Joe deserve to have some kind of goal to aim for. I'd argue Seth and Dean are on that list as well of guys who deserve that top prize opportunity, if they weren't tied up feuding with The Bar over the Tag Team Championship. The women have been doing good, but the mens' singles division on Raw has been dying a slow painful death for the past year. Right now there is literally NOTHING for the singles stars. I hate it. With the exception of the Great Balls Of Fire and Summerslam PPV cycles, Smackdown has been the superior brand. With Jinder Mahal as the blue brand's World Champion for most of that timeframe. Let that sink in. Once we have gotten past Roman VS Brock and can all finally move on with our lives, then Raw might exit the "lull" that we are all stuck in due to Vince's stubbornness in forcing Reigns into a top star position.

I have to agree, RAW has been crap for most of the year. What with one belt not on TV three quarters of the time and the other now held by Reigns, everyone is just standing around scratching their butts.

Usually I try to make it home in time to watch RAW, but lately with work and being December with Christmas coming, I don't even try anymore. We DVR it and watch the interesting parts a couple of days later. If I don't have time to do that I just read KB's review and quite honestly I haven't missed much. That goes for Smackdown as well. Wrestling is the drizzling shits right now.

 

[DaleBryan]

It definitely has.

You were right they are trying things (Woken Matt Hardy, Absolution, and Jason Jordan’s vendetta against Samoa Joe, Samoa Joe in general are all slow burns that could turn into something nice.)

However, there are quite a few things they’re doing wrong. The whole Kane/Lesnar/Strowman thing is a waste of time unless they surprise us all and have Strowman win. But it will likely be Lesnar pinning Kane at the Rumble, so where does Strowman go from there? Feud with Triple H? Eh.

The Shield reunion was executed horribly and has been so lackluster. I usually fast forward through all of their matches. Plus if I have to see another version of Seth & Dean vs. Cesaro & Sheamus (whether it’s singles or tag matches) I may go all Mankind on myself and rip all my hair out. They do the same things every single week. Hopefully we’ll get Dean turning on Seth sooner rather than later. But Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins already seems to be way over done, even though it’s been a full year since they’ve feuded.

Finn Balor. What in the actual fook are they doing with Finn Balor? He either should have been the guy to beat Miz for the IC title (especially since he is in a pointless feud with Axel & Dallas ever since Miz left.) Or they need to just put him in the Cruiserweight Division. I know everyone has a strong opinion on that topic one way or another. But there’s no reason he couldn’t challenge for the CWC at Mania then once that storyline was over he could get back out of the division, whether he finds someone new to feud with or traded to SDL. Also why not team him up with Gallows and Anderson???? I was totally expecting them to come out for the save last night, instead we got Hideo. That’s fine and all, but where’s it leading?

The women’s division on Raw isnt terrible. It’s just a little confusing. Who’s a face? Who’s a heel? Last night I actually forgot Alexa was the champion. She was just another girl in the ring last night. She should be made special and should stand out more. Come the next superstar shake up, the women’s rosters desperately need to be switched up. I do like that they are focusing on other girls though. Absolution has their own storylines going, they’re building Asuka up, Not sure I love what they’re doing with Nia - but I suppose it’s better than being pinned by Sasha every week. It hasn’t all been about Bayley and Sasha wanting to both be champion but also being besties and I guess I can appreciate that fact.

 

[Navi]

Last night was the first night I managed to sit down and watch an episode of RAW in a few weeks and what a disappointment.

It seems like I never left. Other than the Matt Hardy becoming broken again, there really hasn't been much progress in the last two months. I didn't even make it to the end of the show, fell asleep early and missed the end of the show.

Tonight I'll give Smackdown a go, but to be perfectly honest both brands have been a huge disappointment for the longest time now. They have the talent, but the booking just horrible.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Raw has been in a lull since 1999. It's (now three hour) sports entertainment. It is not Game of Thrones or Stranger Things. It's closer to House Hunters or Pawn Stars. A massive amount of formulaic content. It has its moments, spots, surprises, and occasionally interesting writing. I remember way back in the glory years watching Raw and looking at the time and wondering when Stone Cold would come out and do the same kick everyone in the stomach and stun them routine I has seen for the past two years. But it's overall a lull show. 25 years will do that.

Throw in the fact that Raw hasn't really had anything to build to since October and it may feel more stagnant. Survivor Series in November was cross brand, no PPV in December, and the Rumble in January puts most of its top talent in to one match.

So what you are getting now is filler. And do you realize what they are mostly using to fill the time the past few weeks that we don't get the rest of the year?

Wrestling! Long matches performed by the people the IWC claims to love. Rollins is working his ass off lately. Cesaro is killing himself every week. Ambrose just put himself out of action. Joe is running the fat off his ass from working so hard. And Jordan, the guy has wrestled a ton of time over the past month and I'm sorry if some fans can't realize what his character is supposed to be. We're supposed to be the smarks and fans think he is supposed to be some hero when he is actually supposed to be "Die Rocky Die!". As much as we may be sick of Kane, the destruction he and Braun have put each other through has to have some appeal, I'm sure some people still watch wrestling partially for the violence.

But don't take my word for it. Keep up the generic whining and then keep watching. Believe the hype that things will get better for WM season and then go sit through the same HHH returns from February through March and ask yourself if this is really worth the hype or just the same old shit with different, older, more famous players leading to a bigger stage. And keep feeding in to the bullshit from the OP who posted this on the same day that he started this thread:

I just discovered this subsection, and since I'm no longer an Internet/Socialmedia person and barely watch Wrestling

Barely watch wrestling = here are my opinions on a plethora of items.

 

[TDFG]

It'll never happen because they earn too much money commercially but I'd reduce RAW from 3hrs to 2hrs, if need be broadcast a 1/2 hr recap/preview beforehand on WWE Network or TV.

Certain segments on RAW either go on too long and lose it's point or they're on the show just to eat up time.

Keep RAW to 2hrs, put on good shows and it leaves the fans wanting more, especially if you've got talent that aren't wrestling every week due to time constraints.