Has been vs always will be?

[Chrome]

Okay 15-20 years from now, when we look back at Wrestling who would be classified a has been? who would be considered an always will be?

I remember as a early teen I marked out for Bret Hart. He was my idol and yes I was a hulkamaniac too in the 80's. But as time went on and he stopped wrestling it became aparent to me. No matter how much of a fan I was of the Hitman, he was never an "always be" look at today? a lot of people bash his reigns, work ethic, they consider him over rated etc.. when back in the day I remember the two most popular stars in the early 90's were the Hitman and Sting (HBK was an up and comer). (This was in PWI I remember back then as well)

Both we are being considered the same these days.. so reading the hitman tweets against hulk Hogan.. REGARDLESS of how you feel about either of them, something made me realize something..

Hulk Hogan is an always will be
Hitman is a has been.

I was and am a fan of both, but in 15-20 years from now, how will people like DDP, STING, Hitman, Triple H, Jericho, batista, Warrior, Edge, Kane, Mankind, etc all hold up with the audience of tomorrow? Well I have a mock list and wish that you guys add to it with the mind set of 15-20 years from now.. NOT today.. because in todays world judgement is clouded. Most of the time good workers are forgotten about.. remember the Z-Man? When you look back at the 80's (WITHOUT DVD's) the man people that come up are Hogan, Andre the Giant and Flair.. they are Immortalized they are always will be types. Love them or hate them.

No Order by the way..

Always Will Be:
1. Hulk Hogan
2. Ric Flair
3. Stone Cold
4. The Rock
5. The Undertaker
6. Andre The Giant
7. Macho Man Randy Savage
8. SuperStar Billy Graham
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.

Has Been:
1. Bret Hart
2. DDP
3. Batista
4. Big John Stud
5. Edge
6. Jeff Hardy
7. Goldberg
8. Sting
9. Kane
10. Scott Hall
11. Lex Luger
12.
13.
14.
15.


Again in 15-20 years from now, who would be on these lists?

Note* Just because they are on one list or another doesn't make them bad talents.. not everyone can be babe ruth. I mean this can go for ANY sport as well. In basketball,football, baseball.. when you look back 20-30 years you see who were elite vs ok .. just have to look at it honestly for what it is.

 

[ChiefAlot]

It way different now a days with the movies wwe makes. Some wrestles have that to persway votes.
I feel benoit will be an always will be. He is in highlights & great matches. But his atrocious actions will keep him down. I was a huge fan of his and he will remain always will be in my book. (wrestling wise)
Has been and it hurts to say but Mark Henry.
Amazing athlete but just used to either put over people or put them DOWN.
Please push him WWE. Prove me wrong. Im a huge Henry fan now. His song is the best for Raws PG rating.

 

[hardcore4life_is-KoOl]

has beens 1.hogin 2.jeff hardy 3.matt hardy 4. mysterio 5.sting 6.kane 7.scott hall 8.brett hart 9.flair always will be -----> 1.stone cold 2.rock 3.Undertaker 4. andrey PS. is the quiston will there in ring skills last a longtime or will there legend last 4ever? if its about legend then i,ll move hogin from has been to always will be. hogin/flair arn,t great in the ring anymore but there legends will last forever

 

[Chrome]

has beens 1.hogin 2.jeff hardy 3.matt hardy 4. mysterio 5.sting 6.kane 7.scott hall 8.brett hart 9.flair always will be -----> 1.stone cold 2.rock 3.Undertaker 4. andrey PS. is the quiston will there in ring skills last a longtime or will there legend last 4ever? if its about legend then i,ll move hogin from has been to always will be. hogin/flair arn,t great in the ring anymore but there legends will last forever

fair enough.. this doesn't have anything to do with ring skills. Just their legend.

 

[3,000 Pound Gorrilla]

Truthfully... You cannot compare different eras on the list. The "Super Stars" of 20 years ago A) didn't have HALF the media coverage B) Fans were different.

My first real memory of wrestling is WMIII and Hogan slamming Andre. For me... Both of their legends will live for ever. Hogan has tainted his by IMO stayong around way too long... but that's my opinion like I said.

Fans now-days probably wouldn't give half a crap if someone slammed a giant.. cause it happens all the time (nice plug by Hogan about his back BTW on TNA this past week).

But, lists such as these are just opinions. I loved watching The Rock, I respect John Cena's efforts, I would MTFO if I heard HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO USA USA chant... But I could care less when Jeff Hardy jumps off a 47 story building through 964 tables on his brother.

My point is... It isn't about the stars is is more about the nature of the fan base. As we change, so changes what is valued and heralded as Sports Entertainers.

And there you have it.

 

[nwocongo]

As much of a douche as Hulk is now he is an always, he was synonymous with professional wrestling for a decade. Other always guys. Undertaker, Rock, Stone Cold, Ric Flair. 3KPound Gorilla said it best though, these kind of things are all a matter of opinion and you can't compare guys from different generations.

But if you ask me Mark Henry, Jeff and Matt Hardy are on the never were list.

 

[Megadeth]

I don't think has been is really quite the right word for it, but I think I get what you meant. I am assuming you mean more so people who just won't be as remembered in the future as being truly huge stars, and your not implying these guys will be wrestling in front of 100 people in 20 years for very little money acting like they are still as big of stars as they ever where, while being no where as good as they once where, which is what I think of when I think of a "has-been".
But back to the original point, I have to disagree with you about the Hitman. While he may not be remembered quite at the same level as Hogan and Flair, I do think he will be remembered over time. I think most of the recent criticism of him is because of the comments Flair made a few years ago, and will stop with time. And some of it will be regional as well. While with out a doubt Hogan will be remembered more so in the US, I think it is quite possible in many areas, especially Canada, that Bret may very well be remembered as an even bigger star.
Ric Flair for example will probably be remembered as the bigger star than Hogan is the Carolina's and that area.
Another example of a Has-been is arguably Hillbilly Jim. I am sure most people wouldn't ever put him on the same level as Hogan, but he actually lives in the same town as me, and is a pretty big star here. I even have ran into him around town once and even though his looks completely different I still recognized him and marked out a bit. So really it is hard to make a blanket statement in that way on who will be remembered as huge stars, and who were more so the supporting cast.

 

[legendkiller1979]

It is so profoundly unfair to say Bret Hart is a has been. I get why people would think this but you have to look at the circumstances that lead to this moment in time. Bottom line, if the WWF had been doing good business in 1997, Bret would be on the short list of greatest of all time. If the WWF was doing good business in 1997, Bret doesn't go to WCW which was disastrous. The Montreal screwjob does not take place. Bret doesn't get kicked in the head by Goldberg and goes on for a number of years as a success. Bret and Vince go on to have a good relationship and Bret would not have been gone for 13 years. I personally hate talking about what might have been. Stonecold was getting ready to take off when Bret left so who knows if we would have continued to be at the top. I don't see how he wouldn't have been near the job through the end of his career. Shawn Michaels was very lucky that his injury healed and he was able to come back. it was this comeback that allowed him to be pushed into the "greatest of all time" class. It is so unfair to say Bret doesn't belong there because of outside forces that put his career on a different path.

 

[Radical Canadian Goose]

Ok so you started with a top 15 list so I'll do the same:

Always will be:

1) Shawn Michaels
2) Ric Flair
3) Undertaker
4) Sting
5) Ricky Steamboat
6) Arn Anderson
7) The Rock
8) Killer Kowalski
9) Stone Cold Steve Austin
10) Verne Gagne
11) rey Mysterio Jr
12) Great Muta
13) Andre the Giant
14) Kurt Angle
15) Antonio Inoki

has beens

1) Scott Steiner
2)Eric Bischoff
3) Lex Luger
4) DDP
5) Goldberg
6) The Miz
7) Randy Orton
8) Honky Tonk Man
9) Kevin Nash
10) Sean Waltman (XPac, syxxPac, 123 Kid)
11) Buff Bagwell
12) Terry Taylor
13) JBL
14) John Cena
15) William Regal


And now for the top 5 "Quit destroying your legendary status"

1. Hulk Hogan - You know something brotha? we have all caught on to you try to market yourself based on your past. And we're not buying it anymore

2. HHH- Meh, your ring skills are average, your mic skills are pretty decent. Oh wait, thats right, your famous because your the bosses son in law and control backstage, guess the clique taught you how to "Play The Game"

3. Bret Hart - Ok , you were screwed in Montreal, we all get it. Shut your mouth and never reenter the business ever again

4. Chris Jericho - I love you Chris, and I love how you are trying to reinvent yourself as a gameshow host, musician, dancer....wait , what, Dancing With The Stars seriously, are you really trying to screw over the wrestling community?

5. Jeff Jarrett - Leave TV NOW!!! You were never good, never will be good and ratings drop whenever you hit the ring... Take A Hint

 

[wrestling89]

I feel that the way you would judge a wrestler as a "has been" or an "always will be" would be if they went away for a decade, never seen or heard of in the ring and then come back, cut one promo, make one walk down that aisle, and the crowd just goes off. Prime example would have been The Rock a few weeks ago, sure it was only 7 years that he was gone, but still.

With that criteria, these guys would never die as they would ALWAYS command some kind of pop.

1. Hulk Hogan
2. Ric Flair
3. Undertaker
4. The Rock
5. Stone Cold
6. HBK
7. Randy Savage (the day he steps into a WWF ring one more time, it would be the biggest pop ever!)
8. Roddy Piper
9. The Road Warriors (not Animal or Hawk, it would have to be both)
10. The Ultimate Warrior (not many people like him, but he will always get an initial pop)

Guys in-between, who may be huge now, but over time, depending on how they fare within the next few years could go either way.

1. Sting (only because he is NOT a Vince guy)
2. HHH
3. Edge
4. Kurt Angle
5. Jake the Snake

Has beens/flash in the pans. (Like the OP said, these guys are great, I personally enjoy watching them, but in the long run...........)

1. Goldberg
2. DDP
3. Bret Hart
4. Booker T
5. RVD
6. Chris Benoit (thanks to the WWE rewriting history)
7. Chris Jericho
8. Kane
9. Big Show
10. Ted Dibiase (remember how much EVERYONE hated him back in the day, now how many people talk about him without seeing or mentioning his son)