Half-Superstars

[attitude_hero]

I read in the main site not too long ago abou how WWE was struggling to make new stars. I think its obvious that the brand extension is a major, if not the biggest, reason that the WWE can't create new superstars. If you look at all the main eventers right now, all of them are wrestlers that were already main event superstars before the year 2002. Even new ones like cena and Orton and probably Batista, the last big superstars that they have been able to create, only achieved this level because of superstars like the undertaker, triple h , shawn michaels , kurt angle mick foley etc. But heres the real question, who has cena orton or batista elevated in to main event status?

Before 2002 there used to be 5 singles championships, undisputed, intercontinental , european and hardcore. The people that had those belts were the best in the wwe not the "best of raw" or the "best of smackdown". When Jr talks about the world title on smackdown and calls it the "richest price in our business". It takes away from the statement that there is another one with equal value on raw.

I know that in the old WWE we wouldnt be force to sit and watch Khali or Hornswaggle. We would be seeing stars twice a week getting the exposure needed to become superstars and wrestling the very best the company had to offer.I know is asking too much for the brand extension to end but at least you can unify the major championships like it was done with the tag champions.The brand extension makes wwe a lot of money because they can have twice the house shows. But with twice the house shows you got half-champions, you get half-superstars.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Well, one of your first sentences was the most contradictory statements I have ever read here, if contradictory is actually a word in the english dictionary. From the argument, you are saying that the WWE has troubles with making stars & the main reason to this is the brand extension.

The main reason for the Brand Extension was to seperate the crowded main eventers into different shows to allow more time for the midcard & lowercard superstars to be featured on the TV. With the more exposure comes more interest in these wrestlers & the ability for the E to assess which of these wrestlers should get the push to stardom. Adding a third show to the mix increased these chances of finding the next superstars by placing people who the WWE have hopes on against those that are veterans of the ring with name sake to get the other talent over. So, we now have three shows to showcase not only main event level stars but building up the roster for the future. In essence here, the brand extension was a great move to make stars.

If it wasn't for the extension, the E would not have realised that they were in lack of stars for the future as you would of had the crowded main event still happening with guys like Kofi, Morrison, Swagger & others dwelling in the midcard & not being given chances to make a name for themselves.

 

[Ezekyo]

Over time, I've pretty much accepted that the brand extension is not going away anytime soon, if at all. I'd probably prefer WWE better if it were one show, considering I rarely watch Smackdown, so that means I barely follow a whole brand and roster. I feel if everyone were on each show, it'd make me want to tune in to all the shows.

Although I realize the brand extension is more or less here to stay, I do agree that they should have one world title, one secondary title, and one women's title, like they do right now with the tag belts being unified. I liked the concept before where the world and women's champs would wrestle on both Raw and Smackdown. I wish they'd bring that back. I like that they're doing that with the tag belts, but I feel that's mostly because the tag scene in WWE's brands is scarce. It improves the tag scene a bit if all teams are after one title instead of just a couple on each brand.

 

[RockFan89]

Orton has made Legacy look like future main eventers, and Cena made Swagger look really good in a match. It is clear that people like MVP and Morrison are here to stay. So I'm not sure why are you saying there only half superstars. In fact, the brand extension has more likely doubled the superstars.

If Undertaker, Michaels, HHH, Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, and Jericho were all on one show, how would the likes of Legacy, MVP, Swagger, Morrison, Kofi, and Christian ever get significant TV time?

 

[Super Crazy]

Yay. Another Brand Extension sucks thread. Well here's my take on it. The brand extension doesn't stop them from making new stars. Really it should allow them to make twice as many superstars as they have enough wrestlers to fill out both rosters. The brand extension is not going away any time soon and people need to realize that. And I believe when J.R. refers to the belt as the richest prize I believe he is referring to the belt's overall history not just the WWE history. I mean that belt has been used in so many companies and many greats have held it. The belt is extremely prestigious in it's own right.

Without the brand extension only a third these guys would be getting TV time. The brand extension allows for most of the wrestlers on each brand to have tv time and garner an interest in themselves and a fanbase.

The brand extension is here to stay and I like how things have been with it. I wish everyone would stop posting threads asking for unifcation between the titles though.

 

[EGfan4life]

I think that the reason they have a hard time creating superstars is not due to pre-existing stars, it's because they bring in way too many people. Look at this Drew McIntyre guy. He's already being called a future world champion. Guys never did that back when I first started watching wrestling. It just happened, after years and years of promotion, like what happened to Eddie Guerrero and Stone Cold. These guys didn't win the title til two or three years into the WWE, (and both were in WCW, ECW before, so that's even more years.) I think they rushed Punk into the spotlight. Edge deserved it because he has been in the WWE since atleast 1996.

Basically, the reason they have trouble with creating complete superstars is because of the lack of creativity and too much talent. There aren't too many good gimmicks these days like the Undertaker's.

 

[XgringolocoX]

I think it's funny when people dis hornswoggle and khali. I agree that they belong no where near a title program, but they are interesting in certain ways.
Hornswoggle needs to lose the grunting and irish garb and just be a mean lil fcker. Screw with people, make me laugh...that sort of thing.
Khali is like the circus midway "talents". Fckn useless but christ ona stick that guy is fckn huge! I'd like to see him start managing a diva. Just for something completly different
As far a making new stars goes, the WWE screwed themselves. They bought all the places where guys could learn thier craft. Now you have to run your own junior high school and phys ed is every period. problem is the teacher is also the same for every class. you learn different view points and tidbits of knowledge by a diverse group of instructors...not the same few. This is why many of the new guys feel canned. Cause they basicly are.
There are a few bright spots in Morrison, Swagger, THE MIZ! (yes, i said it), Bourne, Sheamus, hart Dynasty, Legacy....
The future stars are there...we all just have to habe some patience.

 

[Cebeards]

I'm not gonna blame the brand split because I don't think that really matters all that much. But, just to contradict myself, Smackdown kinda went nameless in the split (bare with me). Within a few months Undertaker took a few months off, Edge got one of the worst injuries an athlete can get, Jeff Hard lost his mind, Rey got caught, Jericho got roped into the tag title picture (not a bad thing, but that's one less main event guy). So who are we left with for the main event...Punk, who I don't think most wrestling fans really give two shits about (i'm not talking about internet fans, I'm talking about TV fans...there is a difference). Hardy slipped away and WWE was forced to bring back Taker. That seems a lot shallower a main event then Raw is working with. I know Smackdown just got Batista...but what the hell? It seems like the E just wants to find a way to give Rey a title. They didn't even try and hide it, Batista's very first Smackdown he already started fighting Jericho and Show, with the obvious hint of Rey returning for the next PPV...I can only hope that this leads to Batista vs Rey.

Wow, rambling....pretty bad. Basically I think they have a real need to make new stars. Raw main event is getting less cluttered with DX staying away from the titles. Smackdown title scene is wide open, even though they put Undertaker at the gate which is gonna make it hard for younger guys to make their way up there. I don't know how the WWE can find a convincing way for punk to hold on to the title for too long. He's no Edge, Edge could lose the title then find a messed up way to win it back the next month and everyone would notice. They are trying to make Punk that guy, but he's not convincing enough as "that guy" yet.

Anywho, they need to make some good feuds, instead of everything being about titles. They seem to be trying to start up feuds again but as slow as physically possible. What would happen if a show closed with an awesome mid card match? If that Morrison/Rey match would have been the last match on Smackdown, that would have been huge. But, the best match i've seen from the E in a long long time got buried. The brand split, if anything, gives the E more platforms to build new talent on, they just make poor decisions on how to do that. They seem to need every show to closing about the same as the last.....sorry guys, that's how stuff gets boring.

 

[JBK2008]

I really think the WWE should have an older star face a younger star in all of the feuds. Not like ECW's ECW Originals vs The New Breed, but plug MVP or Kofi into the WWE title picture for even just a month or Morrison or Dolph. No Way Out 2010 might just be the PPV where we see it happen. If the titles are on the line in Elimination Chamber, then you can expect to see it happen then. That's the best way I see the new feuds ever happening. But something does need to happen soon.

 

[TLC]

I gotta agree with SC, the Brand Split, is making more Superstars than before as their getting more TV time, developing personalities and getting the fans to care about them, without the brand split, Alot of superstar's would just be seen on Velocity so they wouldnt get showcased as much as now, which is because of the brand split.

I have no problem with it, infact i actually like it, give more variety on shows which is always a good thing.

Also like SC said asking for unification between the titles, personally i wouldnt like it, sure it might make title's more important, but would make it harder for the mid carders to get a title, people like John Morrison may never of got anywhere if the title's were all Unified.

 

[Decarow]

If you look at all the main eventers right now, all of them are wrestlers that were already main event superstars before the year 2002. Even new ones like cena and Orton and probably Batista, the last big superstars that they have been able to create, only achieved this level because of superstars like the undertaker, triple h , shawn michaels , kurt angle mick foley etc. But heres the real question, who has cena orton or batista elevated in to main event status?

Taker, HHH, Michaels, etc. have been in the business for over 10 years (20 years for taker and michaels), Cena and Batista have not been in that long. Cena and batista have no elevated anyone into the main event status because Taker, HHH, HBK and other established stars are still in the main event. You have to give it time until more people get established. I mean cmon, we JUST got a new "main event crew" a few years ago (Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, Punk). So the main event consists of Cena, Batista, HHH, Orton, HBK, Jericho, Big Show, Punk, Edge, Mysterio (some times), Christian, and William Regal (the last 2 being ECW main eventers, if those count). I just named 12 main eventers. 12! Do you really need more main eventers?

 

[Razor]

I read in the main site not too long ago abou how WWE was struggling to make new stars.

Actually, they're starting to get on that road on Raw. Smackdown is doing quite fine in this category, and ECW is doing great by the simple fact that they have no other choice, really.

I think its obvious that the brand extension is a major, if not the biggest, reason that the WWE can't create new superstars.

Right. Opening up a main event that would be crowded with 10+ main event stars into 3 different main events that have only 5 or 6 is a huge problem. It's almost as if the new main events actually make time to give new stars room to breath and develop and get over with the crowd. As opposed to, you know, fighting with Batista, Cena, Orton or Triple H every episode.

If you look at all the main eventers right now, all of them are wrestlers that were already main event superstars before the year 2002. Even new ones like cena and Orton and probably Batista, the last big superstars that they have been able to create, only achieved this level because of superstars like the undertaker, triple h , shawn michaels , kurt angle mick foley etc. But heres the real question, who has cena orton or batista elevated in to main event status?

You have to be patient. Cena has wrestled matches with Miz and Swagger that made the two look like gods of the mid-card, just barely below main-event. Orton wrestled a match with Dibiase on the show with Dusty Rhodes as host that pushed Dibiase to the moon. You're not going to get new stars in a year. It doesn't work that way.

Before 2002 there used to be 5 singles championships, undisputed, intercontinental , european and hardcore. The people that had those belts were the best in the wwe not the "best of raw" or the "best of smackdown". When Jr talks about the world title on smackdown and calls it the "richest price in our business". It takes away from the statement that there is another one with equal value on raw.

How so? The champion of Raw is just as good as the champion of Smackdown, however, they are better than everyone else in the WWE. I would think being tied for 1st, or perhaps 1st and just barely 2nd, in a company of 50+ wrestlers would be a great thing.

Also, if you take into account that the WWE is an international wrestling company that touts it's champions as best in the world, it means that much more.

I know that in the old WWE we wouldnt be force to sit and watch Khali or Hornswaggle.

If they were just as over with the crowd as they are now, we would be. Promise.

We would be seeing stars twice a week getting the exposure needed to become superstars and wrestling the very best the company had to offer.

Right after Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, Trips, HBK, Taker, Punk, Edge, Show, and Mysterio got their respective time on each show.

I know is asking too much for the brand extension to end but at least you can unify the major championships like it was done with the tag champions.

Then you end up with a main event that has been shutdown into one solid main event, as opposed to two main events. That one main event will have to house 10+ main event stars at once, making it even more of a clusterfuck than it is right now. The room for new stars would essentially disappear.

The brand extension makes wwe a lot of money because they can have twice the house shows. But with twice the house shows you got half-champions, you get half-superstars.

Wait, what? That doesn't make sense at all. With the brand extension he has two shows to show separate rosters on, essentially doubling the amount of talent and time he has to make a new star for the crowd to buy shit from. I fail to see where your logic is coming from.

 

[Evildeath]

Michael Hayes is racist and was responsible for holding back Shelton Benjamin and even Mark Henry. JR always sells shelton yet no one gives a f*ck. Batista, Triple H will never sell younger talent. Undertaker is "Invincible". HBK always gets a *comeback*. Divas take up too much space on the roster. They should be limited, wrestling time and head count. Drew McIntyre and R-Truth will die out as Mickey Mouse wrestlers that could not make it with releases coming soon.

 

[attitude_hero]

Actually, they're starting to get on that road on Raw. Smackdown is doing quite fine in this category, and ECW is doing great by the simple fact that they have no other choice, really.



Right. Opening up a main event that would be crowded with 10+ main event stars into 3 different main events that have only 5 or 6 is a huge problem. It's almost as if the new main events actually make time to give new stars room to breath and develop and get over with the crowd. As opposed to, you know, fighting with Batista, Cena, Orton or Triple H every episode.



You have to be patient. Cena has wrestled matches with Miz and Swagger that made the two look like gods of the mid-card, just barely below main-event. Orton wrestled a match with Dibiase on the show with Dusty Rhodes as host that pushed Dibiase to the moon. You're not going to get new stars in a year. It doesn't work that way.




How so? The champion of Raw is just as good as the champion of Smackdown, however, they are better than everyone else in the WWE. I would think being tied for 1st, or perhaps 1st and just barely 2nd, in a company of 50+ wrestlers would be a great thing.

Also, if you take into account that the WWE is an international wrestling company that touts it's champions as best in the world, it means that much more.



If they were just as over with the crowd as they are now, we would be. Promise.



Right after Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge, Trips, HBK, Taker, Punk, Edge, Show, and Mysterio got their respective time on each show.



Then you end up with a main event that has been shutdown into one solid main event, as opposed to two main events. That one main event will have to house 10+ main event stars at once, making it even more of a clusterfuck than it is right now. The room for new stars would essentially disappear.



Wait, what? That doesn't make sense at all. With the brand extension he has two shows to show separate rosters on, essentially doubling the amount of talent and time he has to make a new star for the crowd to buy shit from. I fail to see where you logic is coming from.

When i say half superstars i dont mean the number of superstars but the quality, i mean is obvious we have more wrestlers but how many of them are actually over. By the way nice analisis