God Sucks

[SalvIsWin]

Antagonizing title to draw attention, forgive me.

There are plenty of threads where it eventually turns into a debate about God, religion, spirituality, etc. There is also clearly a large percentage of this forum that has some form of faith and there's quite a few very strong believers also. Considering the last thread actually devoted to this discussion was quite a while ago and there have been a lot of new members since then as well as evolved opinions is there any interest in creating a new thread about religion, spirituality, God, atheism, etc?

Side Q: Where would a thread like that best belong?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the entire reason I made the thread is that I've gotten the vibe that there's a consensus that another religion thread shouldn't be created. Curious if that's the case.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Honestly if you wanted a real, actual opiniated discussion about god, you wouldn't of posted this in the spam section.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Honestly if you wanted a real, actual opiniated discussion about god, you wouldn't of posted this in the spam section.

Thread is about gauging interest and asking where it belongs - therefore I posted it in the spam sections, seems pretty legitimate.

 

[Harthan]

It's been done to death but you'd probably still get a healthy response in the Potluck.

 

[Daniel]

I don't think I've ever posted in a religion thread before, so I'd give it a go.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Alright, despite not really getting many responses (wasn't very long anyway, but regardless) I posted the thread here in the Potluck: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=3646418#post3646418

If nothing else it can be a handy place to send people when a thread begins to derail and talk about religion, God, belief, disbelief, atheism, homosexuality, evolution - etc.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Bumping the thread in the Potluck on God & Atheism: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=200886

So far religion and God are taking some flak with no religious input there to defend it or comment. Any takers?

 

[Lee]

No because it's a waste of time, you have your opinion, you're not changing it. You're not interested in a healthy debate you're interested in saying you're a clever douche.

 

[Барбоса]

A debate about religion is perhaps the ultimate "go nowhere" discussion while at the same time the most likely to sprout tension.

The sheer nature of religious faith means that there is almost no arguing against it. You can tear down the religious iconography, the history of actions taken in the name of religion but faith will always remain.

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

Put it in Potluck. That way it'll be spam free and somewhat respectful.

Edit: Already did. Don't mind me

 

[LSN80]

We had some very respectful, intelligent debate from both sides in the Mitt Romney spam thread Tuesday night. It can be done here.

I haven't forgotten about your thread, Salvi. My laptop is getting upgrades, and I can't post responses to threads such as this on my phone.

 

[Lee]

Yeah but a respectful religious debate with SalvIsWin doesn't exist.

 

[LSN80]

Yeah but a respectful religious debate with SalvIsWin doesn't exist.

Ive never had one, personally, so Ill give him a fair shake.

 

[SalvIsWin]

No because it's a waste of time, you have your opinion, you're not changing it. You're not interested in a healthy debate you're interested in saying you're a clever douche.

Sounds like you're the one not interested in a healthy debate, Lee. If you're upset because I don't have the same position as you and I can defend my position as well as point out the flaws I feel there is in yours, that's fine, but don't mistake your inability to have your beliefs critiqued with me not wanting to have a debate or discussion - that's the entire point of the thread.

Yeah but a respectful religious debate with SalvIsWin doesn't exist.

Is that another faith based argument?

 

[Lee]

*Yawn*

I don't give a shit what you believe or what you do believe. Believe you me I can defend my faith and belief but I know your sort who'll never budge what they believe on that matter because they belive it's fact.

 

[SalvIsWin]

*Yawn*

I don't give a shit what you believe or what you do believe. Believe you me I can defend my faith and belief but I know your sort who'll never budge what they believe on that matter because they belive it's fact.

So then what's healthy debate Lee? Are you capable of healthy debate? You said in the Potluck thread you wouldn't be convinced unless intelligent life was discovered - so are you guilty of the same thing you're accusing me of?

The difference between you and me seemingly is that I am actually interested in what the other side has to say, even if I don't believe it and I don't think I ever will, I'm still interested in the rationale. You're not interested unless the other side is looking to be a possible convert.

 

[Lee]

So then what's healthy debate Lee? Are you capable of healthy debate? You said in the Potluck thread you wouldn't be convinced unless intelligent life was discovered - so are you guilty of the same thing you're accusing me of?

No, I'm saying that after 10 years of being a Christian I've heard it all from your side of things.

The difference between you and me seemingly is that I am actually interested in what the other side has to say, even if I don't believe it and I don't think I ever will, I'm still interested in the rationale. You're not interested unless the other side is looking to be a possible convert.

That's a load of bollocks to put it bluntly, it's because (as I've said before) that after 10 years of being a Christian I've heard it all, know what I will say, know what they will say in reply and know what I'll say to that in response. It's a waste of time.

 

[SalvIsWin]

No, I'm saying that after 10 years of being a Christian I've heard it all from your side of things.



That's a load of bollocks to put it bluntly, it's because (as I've said before) that after 10 years of being a Christian I've heard it all, know what I will say, know what they will say in reply and know what I'll say to that in response. It's a waste of time.

OK, that's fine, you think you've heard all the arguments and facts, but you did accuse me of not being capable of having a healthy discussion, so can you defend that position?

I'll readily admit that I don't know all the facts or arguments, everyday I find out something new or some other perspective, so my position evolves, which is partially why I wanted there to be another debate thread on the topic.

 

[Lee]

I didn't say healthy, I said respectful and there's a difference.

 

[Барбоса]

The sheer fact that there is such a back and forth about having a back and forth about religion demonstrates the potential pitfalls of such a discussion.

I have to say that I agree with Lee on this one. Such a debate can start out healthily and respectful enough but sooner or later someone will get annoyed by the suggestion, real or otherwise, that their faith makes them an idiot/they are going to hell because they do not believe. From there, the only thing collapses into a fiasco.

 

[SalvIsWin]

I didn't say healthy, I said respectful and there's a difference.

Fair enough, but my question remains, I'd ask you to defend that point. I believe the vast majority of things I've ever posted in the previously cigar lounge or potluck has been totally respectful.

I actually question what you mean by respectful, because there are some that think it's disrespectful to question anyone's beliefs - politely or not.

The sheer fact that there is such a back and forth about having a back and forth about religion demonstrates the potential pitfalls of such a discussion.

I have to say that I agree with Lee on this one. Such a debate can start out healthily and respectful enough but sooner or later someone will get annoyed by the suggestion, real or otherwise, that their faith makes them an idiot/they are going to hell because they do not believe. From there, the only thing collapses into a fiasco.

Depends on a lot of things. As an atheist I'm never going to say you're an idiot for believing in God, the most I would ever say is that it's illogical, which could be backed up with proof. If someone said I was going to hell I'm not going to get mad at that or feel disrespected, I don't agree and I'll tell you why.

Besides all of that, I don't think a religious debate has to be about converting someone, it can be an experience to learn exactly what the other side is saying. I'm interested in how Christians look at the old testament for example even if I do think it's nonsense.

 

[Lee]

Fair enough, but my question remains, I'd ask you to defend that point. I believe the vast majority of things I've ever posted in the previously cigar lounge or potluck has been totally respectful.

I actually question what you mean by respectful, because there are some that think it's disrespectful to question anyone's beliefs - politely or not.

You've called this thread "God sucks" how is that respectful?

 

[Барбоса]

Depends on a lot of things. As an atheist I'm never going to say you're an idiot for believing in God,

You personally might not, but if/when the debate gets more heated/deadlocked, someone will.

the most I would ever say is that it's illogical, which could be backed up with proof. If someone said I was going to hell I'm not going to get mad at that or feel disrespected, I don't agree and I'll tell you why.

You cannot argue against faith with logic as faith is inherently irrational.

I'm interested in how Christians look at the old testament for example even if I do think it's nonsense.

Even as an atheist, I think the Old Testament certainly is not nonsense. It contains plenty of useful information in it that we would not otherwise have.

 

[SalvIsWin]

You've called this thread "God sucks" how is that respectful?

I thought if I called it, "Looking for some opinions on the possibility of creating a religious thread - Thanks in advance", it wouldn't get many hits. I was marketing the thread. Maybe I should have called it, "God sucks and Atheism sucks" and then I could have irritated both sides. My true beliefs aren't reflected by the title though.

Regardless though, is that your only reason?

You personally might not, but if/when the debate gets more heated/deadlocked, someone will.

Possible, but you can say that about any topic. Someone can or may say something dumb and mean in any topic, should we not talk about it though?

You cannot argue against faith with logic as faith is inherently irrational.

Agreed, but people have logical and rational reasons for why they believe. Let's say someone grew up in a Catholic household, went to a Catholic school, Church, Sunday School etc. That's the kind of stuff I'm interested in knowing, how it's affected them. Regardless of the illogical nature of faith by definition, there's still a logical conversation to be had.

Even as an atheist, I think the Old Testament certainly is not nonsense. It contains plenty of useful information in it that we would not otherwise have.

Not factual I meant. I agree the old testament has its own merits, just like I think of the Odyssey or the Illiad.