Global Peace Index - USA #82; Canada #8

[SalvIsWin]

The Global Peace Index has been released. The United States ranks #82, and my country of origin ranks #8. The top country is far and away Iceland, followed by New Zealand and Japan. For further reference, The United Kingdom is #26. China ranks ahead of the United States at #80.

A countries peace score and ranking is determined by analyzing a lot of different factors, a few of which being:

Estimated number of deaths from organised conflict (external)

Number of battle deaths from external conflict, which is defined as a contested incompatibility that concerns government and/or territory where the use of armed force between two parties, of which at least one is the government of a state, results in at least 25 battle-related deaths in a year. Source: Uppsala Conflict Data Program.

Level of violent crime

Qualitative assessment of the level of violent crime within the country. Ranked 1-5 (very low-very high) by EIU Analysts. Source: Economist Intelligence Unit.

Military expenditure as a percentage of GDP

Cash outlays of central or federal government to meet the costs of national armed forces - including strategic, land, naval, air, command, administration and support forces as well as paramilitary forces, customs forces and border guards if these are trained and equipped as a military force. Source: International Institute for Strategic Studies, The Military Balance.

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A few interesting stats to note are that if the United States were to reduce their levels of crime and violence equal to Canada's, it would equate to an estimated $89 billion dollars in savings, $272 billion in additional savings by the economy per year, and would potentially create 2.7million jobs.

The biggest differences between Canada and the United States were jailed population per 100,000, women in parliament, exports & imports are percentage of GDP, and international visitors percentage.

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Are you surprised at the position of the United States? In relation to the positions of other countries?

Since 1991, the USA homicide and violence rates have dropped dramatically. Thoughts on this?

The most peaceful states in the USA had much lower accessibility to firearms than the least peaceful states. Do you think there's any causation here? Or just correlation?

Does any of the information change/shape your views on America?

Lastly - any general thoughts or opinions?

 

[Davi323]

No, I am not surprised. Canada doesn't need to have much of a standing army, navy, air force or marine corp, almost every conflict they would intervene in if they had the firepower to do it, they know the USA will do it for them. I know Canada does have an armed forces, I am simply talking about scale. Canada is in a great place, they have a huge trade arrangement with a country that will do most of it's fighting for it. That isn't a knock on Canada at all, all I am saying is that they don't need to fight because America is willing to do it. As such, far fewer Canadians die in conflicts. They know that if any foreign country should attack Canada, that America would consider such an attack as an attack on the United States directly, and we would be there to kick ass.

Basically, because of Canada's location and relationship with the United States, they don't need to go into conflict because we will do it for them, as defending Canada means defending the United States too.

 

[SalvIsWin]

No, I am not surprised. Canada doesn't need to have much of a standing army, navy, air force or marine corp, almost every conflict they would intervene in if they had the firepower to do it, they know the USA will do it for them. I know Canada does have an armed forces, I am simply talking about scale. Canada is in a great place, they have a huge trade arrangement with a country that will do most of it's fighting for it. That isn't a knock on Canada at all, all I am saying is that they don't need to fight because America is willing to do it. As such, far fewer Canadians die in conflicts. They know that if any foreign country should attack Canada, that America would consider such an attack as an attack on the United States directly, and we would be there to kick ass.

Basically, because of Canada's location and relationship with the United States, they don't need to go into conflict because we will do it for them, as defending Canada means defending the United States too.

I agree with you somewhat, but there's a couple points I'll make. I think it would be accurate to say that the United States would definitely defend Canada if there was ever an attack - although whether it's for selfish or altruistic motivation is debatable. Not that what I'm about to say is the point you were making but I think it relates to your post; I feel like some Americans feel like their country helps out Canada more than Canada helps out the USA, and I'd be really interested in people's view on that, maybe I'll make a thread on it actually.

If I look at a country comparison, the indicators that relate to war or military are:

Number of external and internal conflicts fought.
Estimated number of deaths from organised conflict (external).
Number of deaths from organised conflict (internal).
Potential for terriorist acts.
Military expenditure as a percentage of GDP.
Number of armed services personnel per 100,000 people.
Funding for UN peacekeeping missionsMilitary capability/sophistication.

In terms of the comparative scores, they are (shown as Canada:USA):

Number of external and internal conflicts fought - 1.5:2.5
Estimated number of deaths from organised conflict (external) - 2:3
Number of deaths from organised conflict (internal) - 1:1
Potential for terriorist acts - 2:3
Military expenditure as a percentage of GDP - 1:2
Number of armed services personnel per 100,000 people - 1:1
Funding for UN peacekeeping missionsMilitary capability/sophistication - 3:5

The minimum score is 1, and the maximum score is 5. Really, the only big different is between Military Capability and Sophistication - in most other others we're actually equal or very close in score. It's actually not the military or war differences that are the largest. That was really what I was trying to get at with the discussion.

 

[Davi323]

I wasn't stating that one country helped the other out more than the other, just that being neighbors with the USA means Canada's defense priorities are different than they would be if we weren't such strong allies.

 

[SalvIsWin]

I wasn't stating that one country helped the other out more than the other, just that being neighbors with the USA means Canada's defense priorities are different than they would be if we weren't such strong allies.

I don't think that was your point. You should post in my other thread, because there are actually some interesting statistics that show that Canada's defense priorities haven't been affected by the USA as much as you'd think. For example, Canada's military budget has remained very consistent since World War II, and hasn't dropped off on account of having America as an ally, or things like NORAD.

 

[Uncle Chester]

Not surprising at all, the US tries and impose it's exceptionalsim of it's ideological enemies while Canada generally plays a small supporting role in most conflicts. It shows nothing of worth other than that US takes care of military engagements while Canada just agrees with them.

 

[Calderownz]

Are you surprised at the position of the United States? In relation to the positions of other countries?

Not really. This country has a lot of people. Therefore, you're going to get the best and worst out of people. China, with over a billion people, is around the same area. While per capita, I'm sure that it's not even close, it does prove a point. More people in the country means that you're more likely to get imbalances financially and therefore, more crimes.

As far as war and what have you, it's mainly do to the "policy" we have adopted. We want to be the world police. That doesn't surprise me at all.

Since 1991, the USA homicide and violence rates have dropped dramatically. Thoughts on this?

People have been imprisoned at a higher rate for a longer period of time. Due to this, less crimes are being committed. Whether or not they are guilty is irrelevant. Numerically, less people are free to be killed or to do the killing themselves.

The dramatic decline from better police work to a certain extent. However, it's obviously not perfect.

The most peaceful states in the USA had much lower accessibility to firearms than the least peaceful states. Do you think there's any causation here? Or just correlation?

To an extent, it may have something to do with it. However, it also just happens to be accessible to the people in the more violent areas. The mind state can be the same way it might be in the less violent areas, yet they have a better chance of acting upon those urges.

However, the mind state is what really needs to be addressed. Not to mention the conditions. Many of the most violent areas are the lowest income areas. The gun shops and pawn shops head to those areas, knowing that these people feel they need to be protected in one way or another. That also helps contribute.

Does any of the information change/shape your views on America?

No. I never expected America to be perfect. If anyone did, they were delusional. My views have stayed the same.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

We should attack Iceland. Because we're fucking competitive and we need to knock them off the #1 spot.

Seriously, this is a great thread Salv. In fact, I think you could have easilly split your OP into 3 or 4 threads, but this is a facinating topic.

A few thoughts I have after viewing the list:

1. The US is roughly in the middle. The OP does kinda make it sound like the USA is dead last on this list. They're not. The USA is right around the top of the proverbial bell curve here. There are only a few more countries above us than below us.

2. Of the 10 most developed Super Powers in the world, the US pretty much ranks last. THIS is a concern, and furthers the view of America as the "World Police."

3. The US ranks behind Cuba, Vietnam, and Egypt. Ouch.

4. There are only two factors out of all of the major scored criteria that the US scores "in the red" on... And those are # if jailed population per 100,000 citizens and Military Capability / Sophistication.

#4 is the most important point. Basically, this index concedes that the United States is not a peaceful country because 1) our police do their job and lock up criminals who are convicted of crimes in a system where they are presumed innocent until proven guilty and where they are tried and convicted by a body of peers, and 2) because our military is the most well-trained, well-equipped, well-funded in the world. I'm sorry, but I feel better about the fact that I sleep under a blanket of protection from such a highly sophisticated military - I prefer it versus having an average military and ranking higher on the "peace index."

 

[SalvIsWin]

Not surprising at all, the US tries and impose it's exceptionalsim of it's ideological enemies while Canada generally plays a small supporting role in most conflicts. It shows nothing of worth other than that US takes care of military engagements while Canada just agrees with them.

There are more factors being considered here than just military ones.

1. The US is roughly in the middle. The OP does kinda make it sound like the USA is dead last on this list. They're not. The USA is right around the top of the proverbial bell curve here. There are only a few more countries above us than below us.

2. Of the 10 most developed Super Powers in the world, the US pretty much ranks last. THIS is a concern, and furthers the view of America as the "World Police."

3. The US ranks behind Cuba, Vietnam, and Egypt. Ouch.

4. There are only two factors out of all of the major scored criteria that the US scores "in the red" on... And those are # if jailed population per 100,000 citizens and Military Capability / Sophistication.

#4 is the most important point. Basically, this index concedes that the United States is not a peaceful country because 1) our police do their job and lock up criminals who are convicted of crimes in a system where they are presumed innocent until proven guilty and where they are tried and convicted by a body of peers, and 2) because our military is the most well-trained, well-equipped, well-funded in the world. I'm sorry, but I feel better about the fact that I sleep under a blanket of protection from such a highly sophisticated military - I prefer it versus having an average military and ranking higher on the "peace index."

I should have looked at the areas in which America was doing very poorly (the red), that would have been good information to include in my OP.

I also agree with your assessment of some of the indicators. Of course, this list wasn't mean to infer that, "Because you're high on this indicator, this causes you to be a less peaceful country", and I'm sure it's that having a large sophisticated army simply correlates with their peace index.

Also, why you can definitely view military sophistication, and jailed population as two good things (military is powerful and organized, and criminals are jailed), for the latter, there is a very large number of criminals per 100,000, and crime rates are still higher than other countries. At least if the jailed population was high, but crime was low as a result, that would be acceptable.

Thanks for the compliments btw.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Also, why you can definitely view military sophistication, and jailed population as two good things (military is powerful and organized, and criminals are jailed), for the latter, there is a very large number of criminals per 100,000, and crime rates are still higher than other countries. At least if the jailed population was high, but crime was low as a result, that would be acceptable.

It'd be an odd situation if the crim rate were low and the jailed rate high. You can't jail someone without the crime.

Crime rate statistics compared to many third world countries concerns me greatly. We have a high reporting rate with crime. I firmly believe that many other countries have more unsolved crimes than we have. Because of our technological sophistication, I'm also willing to believe that our reporting is more accurate. I cannot substantiate this with any facts - it's just my gut feeling.

That said, sure the crime rate in America is probably higher than many other developed nations. We're a competitive, and in many cases, violent society in many ways. We have gang problems. Drug problems. Etc. We have a bottom 2-5% of the population driving these statistics sky high. It goes with the territory of the culture I suppose.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Because of our technological sophistication, I'm also willing to believe that our reporting is more accurate. I cannot substantiate this with any facts - it's just my gut feeling.

I think if you did have the facts you would find that you're correct (I don't have any statistics either).

I think the most interesting thing to come out of the GPI is that if America reduced it's crime and violence levels to that of Canada, it would say almost a trillion dollars a year, and that could support ~3million new jobs. Since the two biggest issues in the USA right now is spending and jobs, I think it's a discussion that hasn't been talked about. I've yet to see a single politician talk about trying to further reduce crime and violence (via whatever means) and how that would create jobs and reduce spending.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I wonder where that statistic comes from. If the USA reduces the crime rate, wouldn't that cost police and prison employees jobs? Where would the extra 3 million jobs come from? I totally buy the financial savings - we piss away billions each year on the small percentage of the population who commit felonies - but the jobs thing I'm honestly curious about. Can anybody source that for me?

 

[SalvIsWin]

I wonder where that statistic comes from. If the USA reduces the crime rate, wouldn't that cost police and prison employees jobs? Where would the extra 3 million jobs come from? I totally buy the financial savings - we piss away billions each year on the small percentage of the population who commit felonies - but the jobs thing I'm honestly curious about. Can anybody source that for me?

Here's the link to the United States' peace index: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/info-center/us-peace-index/

The quote is:

•Reductions in violence and crime to levels equal to Canada would yield an estimated $89 billion in direct savings, $272 billion in additional economic activity, and potentially create 2.7 million jobs.

My mistake, it's ~350 billion per year, not close to a trillion like I thought I read. I think the statistic is less about it being an actual plan (says nothing how the violence/crime would be reduced), and more about how reducing crime & violence frees up funds and creates jobs. I think the jobs created would be from the money that was saved.

I think it's up for debate how you would reduce the violence and crime. If you focused on education as a means for reducing violence for example, you would need more teachers directly, and you would also need to address things like adequate student:teacher ratio, which is a problem someplaces - so those types of jobs would be created in the long run, while prison employees and such jobs might be lost.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I'm not really surprised considering this country's tendency to enforce international law, using the UN/NATO to impose sanctions on other countries. Canada has been relatively under the radar when it comes to international conflict, as they should be. My views on American domestic policy (and American society in general) hasn't changed - a large group of people who are mostly individually clever, but make stupid, uninformed decisions. However, our foreign policies seem to have drastically changed since the '90s.