Ft. Hood Massacre

[falconsault]

NSL, Falconsault is right. Its way harder in the USAF. The other services base promotion entirely on job preformance, while we not only have to preform well, but also have to score higher than our peers on two sets of tests. We have tests, they dont.


My second point would be, yeup I heard about this. I bet America is going crazy right now yea? Strange, since 19 of my boys went down in ONE DAY last week, I am pretty sure none of you heard about it. Just like the joker said "becuase thats part of the plan..." Im not really suprised by it, at all. People flip the fuck out, it happens. We arent too far away from just being a big ass school campus. You have popular people, weird fuckers, and some people who just get fucked up from being out in the combat zone. Doesnt suprise me, really.

Damn man, I can only imagine what it's like to lose 19 of your people in a single day. I know how I felt when I almost lost a friend twice over there. I feel for you man. Take care over yonder and stay safe.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Thanks bro, doing fine out here, beyond some crazy ass days like that. We usually have one car bomb at minimum on a weekly in the vicinity out here, but they dont seemed to be particulalry aimed at any one entity (which is just as odd as it sounds) and of course the daily mortars, but they are such shit shots its more like 4th of July every day

Meh, this thread isnt about me though. Everyone go back to fighting over gun rights, and talking out of their asses about things thay have no clue about, and feeding into another media freak out. It reminds me of a few years ago when some little fuckrag flipped out at Virginia Tech, and everyone lost their minds over it

 

[gd]

I, as military, feel like the Army is dropping the ball somewhat here. Firstly, and I don’t know if many or any know about this, but a Army Reservist Officer, I don’t recall the actual rank, refused to be deployed because he stated that he is a conscientious objector due to Obama’s presidency. He feels that Obama is not an actual US born citizen and refuses to take an order from him because it would be an illegal order. The Army agreed to not deploy this officer and he is still in the Army.

First of all, that's just a ******ed excuse. However, I get what you're saying about the continuous deployment. I have a cousin who has went over there 2 or 3 times after what was supposed to be his last trip over.

No offense to any Muslims on this forum, but I really blame our own Government for this. The reports on Yahoo are saying the Major who opened fire was named Hasan, and they believe he could've "converted" to the Muslim religion.

My question is simply this.. we're at a seemingly major "war", with the middle east.. so why are any of our military leaders of middle eastern descent? Maybe its my naive thinking, but you'd assume our great Government MIGHT have thought to check into his background before.. oh, I don't know, allowing him to join our army.

I had friends stationed at Ft. Hood. 1 was just sent down there for training, no less than a week ago.. another was simply stationed there, and a 3rd was living down there. To be quite honest.. this is just another reason why I not only have NO faith in our Government and our military..

Yep, that's racist.

My second point would be, yeup I heard about this. I bet America is going crazy right now yea? Strange, since 19 of my boys went down in ONE DAY last week, I am pretty sure none of you heard about it. Just like the joker said "becuase thats part of the plan..." Becuase it all happens so far away, its easy to not worry about it, or think about it. Im not really suprised by it, at all. People flip the fuck out, it happens. We arent too far away from just being a big ass school campus. You have popular people, weird fuckers, and some people who just get fucked up from being out in the combat zone. Doesnt suprise me, really.

I almost never here anything about what's going on in Iraq anymore. I think a lot of people think the war has "died down" and nothing is happening over there anymore, but that's obviously not the case.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

er, not in Iraq but yea. your right

The war in Afgahnistan *hint hint* has had even LESS attention paid to it, and its been even crazier most months than iraq. We had record numbers die this last summer, expediting some people's trips out here, forcing some to get ready and leave in under a week's notice *cough cough*, but yet , since people getting shot in America "isnt part of the plan" you will see the media blowing this thing WAY the fuck up for at least a month, and people buying stupid ass little ribbons and shit.

and fuck gun control. Maybe if more people had guns, someone couldve shot this crazy fuck before 12 people died.

 

[gd]

er, not in Iraq but yea. your right

The war in Afgahnistan *hint hint* has had even LESS attention paid to it, and its been even crazier most months than iraq. We had record numbers die this last summer, expediting some people's trips out here, forcing some to get ready and leave in under a week's notice *cough cough*, but yet , since people getting shot in America "isnt part of the plan" you will see the media blowing this thing WAY the fuck up for at least a month, and people buying stupid ass little ribbons and shit.

Proves my point, that just shows how little the average American knows about the war right now.

 

[Razor]

No one in the US military wants to go see Mental Health as there is a stigma about it, people will think you’re crazy, you’ll get section 8’d, the list goes on and on. We have more options than talking to mental health, options that do not carry a stigma with it, such as talking to a Chaplin but people rarely take advantage of it.

Not to mention that we have screenings during an annual health assessment, but that doesn’t mean that anyone is going to be completely honest during these assessments. We get asked questions like do you have homicidal or suicidal thoughts and as long as you simply say no, then no other questions are asked. They ask about stress in your work center or personal life, if you’d like to talk to a Chaplin or mental health, but 98% of the military personnel will always say no. And there is a mental health screening before and after each deployment, because you must be fit for duty and if you’re not, you must be treated and fixed so that you will be fit for duty.

This is a tragic moment indeed for the Army as now it will paint an image of the Army or military in general are just a bunch of crazy, gun totting people. That is of course as long as the FBI investigation into the Major’s background doesn’t reveal anything “shocking” which it shouldn’t because we are all given an extensive background check before we can even finish basic training.

I, as military, feel like the Army is dropping the ball somewhat here. Firstly, and I don’t know if many or any know about this, but a Army Reservist Officer, I don’t recall the actual rank, refused to be deployed because he stated that he is a conscientious objector due to Obama’s presidency. He feels that Obama is not an actual US born citizen and refuses to take an order from him because it would be an illegal order. The Army agreed to not deploy this officer and he is still in the Army.

Now we have this shooting, by a Major who was apparently upset about being deployed to the Middle East and the people that he shot at were people filling out paperwork for their deployments to the Middle East.

People are getting sick and tired of being deployed, I can only imagine how it is for the Army being deployed for 12 months at a time and sadly we were promised that we were coming home when Obama took office and yet we didn’t come home, we just moved over to another Middle Eastern country. And the whole issue of Stop-Loss, the solution for that lost time with families is a compensation of $500 for every month on stop-loss time.

I got off topic for a while, but all in all, I feel very bad for the families of the fallen. I just hope that some change is coming for us, we need it as we need a damn break.

::EDIT::
We do not sign over all of our rights. We have our rights and we must follow the laws set by the states and the governments, yet we are held to a second (or third) set of laws with the UCMJ. So we have rights its just how we go about using them is greatly restrained in many cases. In some cases it appears that we have no rights and are just here to do as we are told, but there is such a thing as lawful and unlawful orders and we have the right and duty to not follow unlawful orders and to report them as well. My 2 Cents.

Can't we do more to remove the stigma of mental health? I'm not naive enough to think that it's entirely okay to admit you're going crazy because of worry about being deployed to Afghanistan, seeing as though it's barely okay to admit you've got a mental problem in the States (and that's without the whole "I'm fighting next to you, you better keep it together" issue), but isn't there something that can be done? This shooting didn't have to happen. I'm sure of it.

And I understand you don't really "sign away your rights," I was being hyperbolic. Though you ARE bound to following orders and protocol and the like. While the generals are ordering people to do their jobs, can't they order people they're worried about to seek treatment? Or is that something that they can't do under the UCMJ?

 

[Razor]

and fuck gun control. Maybe if more people had guns, someone couldve shot this crazy fuck before 12 people died.

Now Norcal, this happened on a military base. Everyone there had guns, and that's why the shooter died. Because, you know, they were trained in the art of shooting someone who was shooting at them.

However, domestically speaking, the idea of gun control is much more attractive when you look at the outcomes in European countries that have much tighter gun control. The rates of gun deaths have gone down drastically in those countries, while the gangs in our neighborhoods walk around with shotguns, automatics, what have you. You can't make the argument that a person with a gun can protect themselves from that, because that's just silly.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

You know I was totally joking right? I think gun control is fine. I have a peice. I carry it. Its fine. I think people should have the abilities to defend themselves. No matter how tight you make the laws, criminals will still have them, and the more you take them from everyone else, the more power you dole out to those who DO have guns.

 

[Big J]

and fuck gun control. Maybe if more people had guns, someone couldve shot this crazy fuck before 12 people died.

Isn't there already a law againest someone killing 13 people on an army base? It didn't stop this, guy did it?

There is no way anyone can prevent some nut from going on a killing spree like this, if someone wants to go shoot up a mall or anywhere else and doesn't blab about it, you can't prevent it. Security could stop it, but you can't prevent it. You have to be prepared and know what to do.

Criminals take advantage of people who can't or won't fight back. Do you think joe the drug addict would try and rob someone at the atm if that person could be armed? Probably not.

Guns stop more crimes than they cause, it just doesn't get reported and most of the time the gun isn't even fired.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

still havent lost my touch

 

[X]

NSL, Falconsault is right. Its way harder in the USAF. The other services base promotion entirely on job preformance, while we not only have to preform well, but also have to score higher than our peers on two sets of tests. We have tests, they dont.


My second point would be, yeup I heard about this. I bet America is going crazy right now yea? Strange, since 19 of my boys went down in ONE DAY last week, I am pretty sure none of you heard about it. Just like the joker said "becuase thats part of the plan..." Becuase it all happens so far away, its easy to not worry about it, or think about it. Im not really suprised by it, at all. People flip the fuck out, it happens. We arent too far away from just being a big ass school campus. You have popular people, weird fuckers, and some people who just get fucked up from being out in the combat zone. Doesnt suprise me, really.

A-FUCKING-MEN Norcal. I'm far more concerned with our troops dying than this admittedly terrible scene at Ft. Hood.

We need some serious reform to the services that we have for our troops coming home, too many people are coming back fucked up both physically and mentally. It's incredibly depressing the amount of suicides our armed forces have seen in these two wars.

Hope everything is going well over there for you man. As well as it can be atleast.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Go hit me up in the NorCal thread brotha man, this thread isnt about me


and your totally right. It just sucks bro, becuase you already have this huge stigma attached to mental health issues in the usual world, you can go ahead and times that by fucking fifty within the military.

and it really does fucking jeg me, and it started with the Va Tech thing in 2006. People shit a brick over that for fucking MONTHS, but as I said, I personally have been witness to kids just as or younger, it greater numbers, being burnt to ashes, in a single day, and no one gives a shit. Might, MIGHT get a fucking mention for five minutes on the fucking evening news, and then we move on. Becuase its part of the plan. Fucking bullshit is what it is.

 

[Spaceman Spif]

All I can say is my condolences go out to the families that lost loved ones and my thoughts and prayers are with those who have been injured and to all who have been affected by this. I am also saddened that I am just now hearing of the 19 soldiers we lost in one day. Just because as NorCal stated "that it's part of the plan" doesn't make it any less of a loss or less sad that those killed at Ft. Hood. I wish are media would bring the proper attention needed to what is really going on with this war. However I do not see this happening.

NorCal stay safe, all of you please stay safe and may God Bless you for the serving our country, thank you.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Now Norcal, this happened on a military base. Everyone there had guns, and that's why the shooter died. Because, you know, they were trained in the art of shooting someone who was shooting at them.

However, domestically speaking, the idea of gun control is much more attractive when you look at the outcomes in European countries that have much tighter gun control. The rates of gun deaths have gone down drastically in those countries, while the gangs in our neighborhoods walk around with shotguns, automatics, what have you. You can't make the argument that a person with a gun can protect themselves from that, because that's just silly.

You're right. We should ban guns, and I bet those criminals will be the first ones in line to trade it for a Walmart gift card.

If we ban guns, only the criminals will have them.

 

[falconsault]

Can't we do more to remove the stigma of mental health? I'm not naive enough to think that it's entirely okay to admit you're going crazy because of worry about being deployed to Afghanistan, seeing as though it's barely okay to admit you've got a mental problem in the States (and that's without the whole "I'm fighting next to you, you better keep it together" issue), but isn't there something that can be done? This shooting didn't have to happen. I'm sure of it.

And I understand you don't really "sign away your rights," I was being hyperbolic. Though you ARE bound to following orders and protocol and the like. While the generals are ordering people to do their jobs, can't they order people they're worried about to seek treatment? Or is that something that they can't do under the UCMJ?

To be honest, there isn't really anything that can be done about removing the stigma that comes with seeing mental health. It's just how people preceive it to be, unless we get a strain of soldiers in that don't think twice about seeing mental health there is really nothing that can be done. With the deployments more and more people are coming home with PTSD, and depending on how severe it is, one could be kicked out (section 8'd), and sadly for a lot of us, we don't have anything else to fall back on, so getting the boot is a scary thing.

Now don't get me wrong, some people do the right thing, they go to mental health or talk to the Chaplin and get help that they need. Those people didn't care what the others around them though but it unfortunately doesn't always happen that way. To those who do the right thing, I say more power to them. I'm one of those people that has no problem talking to the Chaplin when I have a problem. Reason why I talk to them is that they listen, offer advice in more than just regilious form, and are bound to tell no one about the subject, I just feel more comfortable with talking the Chaplin, but at least I'm talking to someone.

The orders and protocal that we have to follow still have to be lawful and cannot endanger anyone's safety. As far as a commander giving an order to visit mental health, they can do that. We are told that we must have a vaccine by a certain deadline, we have mandatory medical appointments that a commander can give a flat out order. But even if a commander were to do that it still falls on the individual to tell the truth when they go and actually let mental health to do their job.