Former World Champions Holding Mid Card Titles

[The Brain]

We all know that Sheamus became the US Champion on Monday. This seems to be a good move as it ends the slump he was in and he will probably make a good champion. He also joins the list of wrestlers who have won a mid card title after winning the world title. How do you feel about guys stepping down to a mid card title reign after holding the big one?

I could argue that it’s a bad move for any given wrestler. The US and IC titles are clearly below both world titles so a former world champion going for those titles seems to be a step backward. The mid card titles are supposed to be a stepping stone to the world title, not the other way around. It’s almost admitting they’re not good enough to regain the world title so they are content to settle for a mid card title. Kind of like a big fish in a small pond scenario. On the other hand, I could argue that having a former world champion hold a mid card title adds more prestige to that title and boosts those who compete for it closer to the main event. A former champion may have come up short in rematches for the world title and has to earn his way back into contention. Holding a mid card title may be a good way to do that. I suppose holding the US or IC title is better than not holding a title at all; even if you already had a taste of the big one.

Off the top of my head I can think of nine people who held a mid card title after being world champion. I’ll throw out Pedro Morales since I doubt any of us were watching during his title reigns. I’ll also throw out Ric Flair since he won the IC title well past his prime and his days of competing for the world title were behind him. The remaining seven are Triple H, Kane, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, JBL, Rey Mysterio, and now Sheamus. It’s very possibly I’ve left someone off so please correct me if I have. Given these examples I’d say the only one I really had a problem holding a mid card title again was Triple H. Even though the others had world title reign(s) they were not as dominant as Triple H was as champion. He seemed very out of place as IC champion in 2001. The rest on the list seemed to fit into the US or IC picture very well. We are always looking for the mid card titles to be more prestigious. I suppose having former world champions compete for them is a way to make that happen.

So what are your thoughts on former world champions holding mid card titles? Does it make the wrestler look weak or the title look strong?

 

[Dave]

I actually like the general idea of it and I think it makes sense for Sheamus too.

The thing about Sheamus right now is that he doesn't have a legitimate place in the main event scene and that is why he has been moved down the ranks into the mid-card. However, I don't think we should all be looking at this as being bad for him or the business. In fact, one great thing about this move and any other move that the WWE should make that echoes this situation, is that it makes Sheamus look strong, whilst actually making the United States Championship look like it belongs on the show.

Let's face it, Daniel Bryan has been a poor United States Champion and that is through no fault of his own. Perhaps if the WWE had tried to get him into more matches as Champion, then I would not be making such a, what might prove to be, bold statement. He looked very good when he took the Championship from The Miz and the WWE lost a step when they put The Miz right into the main event and didn't even think twice about the United States Championship. I always thought that they could have had Alex Riley try to wrestle the Championship away from Bryan. It would have given Bryan and Riley something to do whilst keeping the Championship at the front of people's minds. However, they obviously felt differently and the United States Championship went lacking for a long time.

In this situation, I think it makes a lot of sense for a main event talent to come down and take the Championship back into prestige. I mean, Sheamus hasn't really been on a roll lately but putting him in matches with Daniel Bryan and the other mid-card talent that should be contesting that belt will at least give him something to do whilst the angles that cloud the main event clear up. In most cases, I trend to think that main event talents holding mid-card belts work because it also gives Bryan a great pop if he is able to get the Championship back from Sheamus at some point. This situation in particular seems to be a win-win situation for the WWE and everyone involved.

 

[Boondocks]

I think that you made some very valid points.

First, I think it CAN make a wrestler look weak. With the state that the mid-card titles are in, anybody who wears those belts are running a risk of losing prestige. But it may also boost them, like a situation such as Sheamus, where he's on a losing streak. It is some form of a title for him to wear around. And after a long losing streak, he should want nothing more than a badge of honor such as a title.

On the other hand, something like this CAN bring prestige to a title. It can be like a situation where someone so big as to be the best in the world wants that title. But I think in this situation, it will do nothing for the title, unless they create storylines with this title reign. Sheamus, while appearing big and overpowering, didn't seem like a legitimate WWE champion. He would only win the title by fluke. So I think that it's almost as if those World Title reigns almost are forgotten, and he is using this as a stepping stone to the World Title.

 

[Max Headroom]

It's a great idea if you ask me. You just got to play it out right and make him look dominant.

Sure, for Sheamus, it is basically a step down from being in the main event. Maybe he wanted it, maybe someone in the back did, who knows, this isn't what it's all about. Point is, as you said, the fact that he was a 2-time WWE champ so fast in his career, makes the US title gain presteige now that he is holding onto it. It makes people notice it (not only because it will stick out on that pale body) because they would think "oh hey, he wants that title pretty bad, it must actually mean something."

They got a good grip right now to make the US title alot bigger than what it was as of late. All they gotta do is book Sheamus as a credible champ, who defends that title as if it's the best there is. Have actual #1 condender matches for the title, that could create a feud even, or at least have the match at a PPV. Make it noticable that Sheamus got that title, let him brag about it and whoop ass whenever someone tries to take it.

Basically they just got to make sure the title is showcased. If there is a backstage segment, make him have the title over his shoulder wearing it with pride, same with when he goes to the ring. Hell even have him basically say "this is a title, it's just as damn good as any other, and that's how i'm gonna treat it". Just keep the focus on the title as much as it's on him, and make it seem like people WANT to take it from him, not as a stepping stone, but as a champion.

I'm gonna stop now.

 

[Andertakerman91]

Well this is an interesting point to bring up and really I have a few sides to this kind of discussion.
As far as Flair goes it was good to see him with a title when he entered his return to WWE and really he needed to win something but fitting in with the world title maybe just couldnt work.
As for Triple H in 2001 this was around the Judgement day time of his alliance with Stone Cold and there battle with The Undertaker and Kane. It suited this storyline as both titles were up for grabs for both teams to try and reign supreme, I feel it fitted quite well although Triple H is a very worthy world champion.
Jericho got an unbelievable push as Undisputed champion and really he had to come down from there at some stage, sooner or later but he has the capability of being a world champion much like Triple H.
I know little about Shemaus but I do feel he enters the category of rising far too quickly to the top and there is a whole list of superstars I could put into that category including the current WWE champion and many more so my feelings on that are clear.
Kane made a good IC champion and I mean it was only after his flash in the pan reign of one day where after he held the IC champ, now he should always be a contender for the world title.
JBL and Benoit were both hard working and deserved world championships. Benoit fell quickly to the IC/US belts which was strange and JBL could really never stay up on top for long.
Do what they did in the 90s and earn your way to the top. I feel Triple H and shawn micheals are prime examples, the only reason they shouldnt is if some rivalry storyline collides, like Triple H in 2001. Just my thoughts, agree to disagree

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I've got no problems with it in general and believe that it can be a good thing overall.

Several months back, before CM Punk's injury put him out of action for a while, it looked as though the very beginnings of a feud with Daniel Bryan was looming and it had most people on here licking their chops in anticipation. Punk is a former 3 time World Champion, his reigns may not exactly be the stuff of legend but he's a multiple time World Champ all the same. The possibility of him feuding with Daniel Bryan over the United States Championship was met with considerable approval, at least on this forum as I recall.

A former World Champ holding a mid-card title or feuding over one can increase a title's stock in my view. Bryan's run as United States Champion was, for me, a mixed bag though it was no fault of his own. The WWE bogged him down with the Divas for some odd reason and took their eye off the ball with him. But at least he was on television each week and I'm glad that it appears that they're getting back on track with him.

Sheamus is one of the most high profile wrestlers of the WWE's youth movement, he's arguably the one that really kicked it off by winning the WWE Championship out of nowhere. Sheamus is still very over despite the fact the's been pretty cold the past few months, so that suggests to me that Sheamus is someone that the WWE can look to and depend on in the long run. He & Bryan could have a great feud over the title and elevate its worth.

 

[Klown_Karnage]

I think you left one out who held a mid-card championship after a world championship: CM Punk, although that one might not count given that he held it after a MiTB win that he lost without being able to compete in the match he lost it in.

On the subject of those who've held main event championships holding mid-card titles, I guess I can see the point. It's a matter of those championships being "lower than" the ones they've held in the past. In some cases it is a step down, although the concept might be to keep it in the mind of the audience that this person is still championship material regardless of the fact that the main event championship is in a different story line at the time.

In Sheamus' case, I have to say this is probably the best move for him. In my opinion, he was moved into the main event championship way to early, before the WWE universe as a whole was ready for him to be champion. Oh he was certainly championship material, but just not on that level. Now he's a mid-card champion which is, in my opinion, just where he needs to be. I like him as a villain and he's definitely improved over time, but I think he needs to spend a bit of time in the mid-card before coming back to the main event. Perhaps the case is different with some other wrestlers, but this is how I feel about Sheamus specifically.

 

[Judah's Lion]

Off the top of my head I can think of nine people who held a mid card title after being world champion. I’ll throw out Pedro Morales since I doubt any of us were watching during his title reigns. I’ll also throw out Ric Flair since he won the IC title well past his prime and his days of competing for the world title were behind him. The remaining seven are Triple H, Kane, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, JBL, Rey Mysterio, and now Sheamus. It’s very possible I’ve left someone off so please correct me if I have. Given these examples I’d say the only one I really had a problem holding a mid card title again was Triple H. Even though the others had world title reign(s) they were not as dominant as Triple H was as champion. He seemed very out of place as IC champion in 2001. The rest on the list seemed to fit into the US or IC picture very well. We are always looking for the mid card titles to be more prestigious. I suppose having former world champions compete for them is a way to make that happen.

So what are your thoughts on former world champions holding mid card titles? Does it make the wrestler look weak or the title look strong?

i believe there are some others that held a mid-card title after a WHC. would you count Undertaker? he held the Hardcore Championship after he held the WHC. Big Show held the US Title after holding the WHC. an argument could be made for Booker T since he held both the IC Title and US Title after holding the WCW WHC. i'm not sure if that'd count. and in a move that i'll never fully understand, Bret Hart held the US Title after holding the WHC. that one is a bit of a different story, but i guess is an example of the OP... at least technically speaking.

regardless of how many there have been and which ones should really be considered (like do Kane's count because he only held the WHC for one day and then held mid-card titles afterwards but hasn't held a mid-card belt since his most recent WHC reign), i'm generally a fan of this.

i'm a bit undecided about Triple H and his IC Title run in 2001. it was a bit out of place, for sure. but it made sense in the current angle with the 2 Man Power Trip thing and the title matches between Austin/Taker and Triple H/Kane were pretty sweet. and also, right in the middle of all that, Jeff Hardy won the IC Title for like a week. it really made me think that Jeff Hardy was on the breaking point of being on the same level as Triple H. isn't that the whole point? to add prestige to the title and to add value to the superstars that compete for the titles? anyway, i'm still debating that one because, as The Brain said, it was a bit out of place.

specifically, as it relates to Sheamus, i'm a fan. i hope this gets him on TV more and back into some sort of credibility again. i think he's capable of having good matches and feuds and putting some kind of emphasis on the title again can only be a good idea. i would like to see Sheamus do a "Stone Cold" kinda thing after this US Title reign. by that, i mean that i'd like to see Sheamus say that, now that he's held the mid-card belt, he's gunning for the WHC belt a la Stone Cold to the Rock all those years ago. when Austin made the transition from IC Champ to contender of the WHC, i totally believed it because of his IC reign and matches and feuds. i'm hoping that this US Title reign can do the same for Sheamus.

like most things, i think that the key is MODERATION. as long as former WHC holders aren't dropping down to mid-card ranks every week, i'm pretty okay with this happening. as stated in the OP, there are only 9 that spring to mind and i may have added a few more. it's not like this happens all the time, so i'm okay with it happening as long as the writing continues to be credible and sensible. give me a reason to believe the transition and i will be faithful to be an interested follower and fan.

 

[CelticCorey]

I think it very well could add credibility to the U.S. title. I think Sheamus will get another World Championship in the future. He's just using this as a stepping stone. From September 2010-December 2010, midcard titles were one of the best things in the WWE. Danielson was booked really strong up until Survivor Series. He was winning nearly every single match. He was defending the title on TV and on PPV and he was winning. He was looking really good. Then they forgot about him. Shame really. And Ziggler was DAMN GOOD as IC Champion. Now it's been lackluster with Kofi having the belt again.

Sheamus is marketable. He plays an oustanding heel. His mic skills are good despite his accent. His in ring skills are good for his size. Hence my screename, Sheamus is my favorite. It's good to see him get something. I hope Kevin Dunn has dropped his grudge for Sheamus now, who was just doing his job by running from Nexus. Sheamus winning the WWE Championship in 2009 was THE REASON I became a wrestling fan again. I stopped watching in 2007, sick of the same old people all the damn time. Sheamus was fresh and finally something new.

 

[dannypearson]

Holding the US title has to be a good thing for Sheamus. Hopefully it means he stops wearing the crown and liivng up to the 'king sheamus' gimmick - it did nothing for him what so ever.

It takes him away from the over crowded main event scene without making him look weak. It keeps him relevant. It also gets him a spot on the card at the biggest event of the year.

C M Punk dropped down to the intercontinental belt after holding the world heavyweight title and then worked his way back up to the main even without really losing any momentum. This is what I think the writers are doing with Sheamus.

I see Sheamus going on a wiining streak for a while, reigniting his fury in the meantime until he is ready to go back in to the main event picture again.

 

[thefutureisnow]

CM punk won the intercontinental championship in 2009 after losing the world heavyweight championship in 2008, I think this helped built him back properly eventually winning the world championship again, and eventually turning heel.

 

[kaneso14]

CM Punk is one of those guys, like Chris Jericho, who could easily move between the main event and mid card without losing too much credibility. With Sheamus, I really hope they try and build him as a monster heel who destroys the Raw midcard and has a great reign as US Champion. Then he could once again step up to the main event and if/when he does win a World Championship he can have a decent reign this time with clean wins and him coming out on the top of a feud. However, something tells me he won't last long as US Champion. I can see him being bounced over to Smackdown, and if so, I repeat what I said above only with the IC Championship.

 

[The HEEL JuiceLee]

I don't think its good for every wrestler,but for a young wrestler who shot straight to the top so fast like Sheamus i think it's perfect.They should also do the same with Jack Swagger.I mentioned in a post earlier that i think since Sheamus dropped the king gimmick,he should adopt a championship crazed gimmick where he goes after every belt.sometimes holds more than one.The night after he looses 1 belt he goes straight after another(even if it's losing the WHC then going for the IC or TAG belts)I think it would be a great gimmick to add to his celtic warrior charecter.

!just my stupid opinion!

 

[Zigglerfan227]

Sheamus should have held the US title or any mid-card title BEFORE he won the world title. I actually like Sheamus and I thought that he was a good WWE champion even if he did cheat to win. It makes absolutely no sense (to those who aren't very familiar with the way wrestling works behind the scenes) why a world champion would step down to a less prestigious championship. In my opinion, Sheamus should have never had a losing streak. It made him look horrible. Holding the United States title doesn't make him look bad, but if he were going to go into the mid-card so soon he should have won the majority of his matches and had won this title sooner. I hope that I make sense. I know what I am trying to say.

I understand that there is no place for Sheamus in the main event scene right now. What I am trying to say is that he simply should not have had a losing streak. He should have still looked strong by defeating the majority of his opponents. He should have won the US title sooner. Also, the king of the ring win would have been cool if he had not dressed as "king" Sheamus. His US title win actually seems like a fluke because he had been losing so much. To me his losing streak really destroyed Sheamus. This could easily be fixed if they just let him get back on track by winning alot of his matches. The US title could definitely build him back up.

 

[iwinulose]

i see where your going with this brain, i dont think sheamus should be mid-carder, however, guys like john cena, stone cold, the rock, randy orton, etc, have held the US championship belt and they still had many world title reigns, so i think sheamus will get back to the top soon enough.

 

[AK2V8]

It serves as a good momentum builder for the Celtic Warrior. Having him drafted to SD with the title and Kofi drafted to Raw with the tile would be good, the same thing that happened in 09: that way Sheamus has a new set of workers to defend the title against, eventually drop it and pursuit the WHC. The WHC would definately look nice around his waist more than the WWE title. Chris Benoit won the US title on SD 3 times and never seemed to get back into the ME scene ever since being drafted to SD, even though I wouldve loved to see that. Chris Jericho won the IC title 9 times with the awsome feud with Rey. CM Punks IC title run was pointless, but won MITB only a few weeks later. What would be interesting to watch is have Sheamus degrade the fact that is the "United States" title as he is Irish. This would give Sheamus EVEN more heat then he already gets. Think about it.

 

[stasheroo]

Great thread topic.

Personally, I take the stance that no title reign is ever damaging to a wrestler's career. I think it's the easiest way for fans to relate to why exactly
these people do what they do (from a storyline perspective anyway).

I sure think it looks better for Sheamus winning the US title than getting crushed by the Son-in-Law two weeks before.

And I think having a title like the US or Intercontinental belts held by former World Champions only makes them appear even greater in value.

I think the chase for championships has been wrongly devalued and lost amid less relevant feuds and 'war of words'.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

It's not a bad idea in general but I think that it does make Sheamus look bad. In the past Triple H and Undertaker have held midcard titles after winning the WWE Championship but they have done so at a time when they were established main eventers and had been main eventing for a good number of years. When they won the midcard title, it was seen as giving a boost to that said title scene because they were legends by the time they held that belt. Sheamus has just been a main eventer for a year and his title reigns have hardly set the world on fire. So when he holds the belt it translates into a de-push for him rather than a push for the title. It is basically admitting that though we have pushed the guy hard we just cannot continue to keep booking him in the main event as we have feuded him with all the big stars there are but he is still finding it difficult to get over. So we have to give this guy a fresh start.

What should have been done is to book Sheamus in a non title feud with the biggest star available on either roster. Maybe he could have been booked against either Big Show or Kane in a brand supremacy match or something of that sort. Either way I think that Sheamus should head to Smackdown following WrestleMania as he has feuded with almost every main eventer on Raw.

 

[strasaphere]

As an above poster said, you made some very valid points. But I think it's situation dependant.


For instance, I didn't see it as a step down when Triple HHH won the IC title during the 2-man Power Trip, even though he was a main WWF Championship contender.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Let's look at it like this: It's better than Sheamus, a former WWE Champion, getting his ass whipped on television every week by people like Evan Bourne.

I don't see a problem with it. Actually, I like it, as it gives him something to do. I don't look at the mid-card championships and just merely mid-card titles. I look at them like this: IMO, the greatest in ring performers in WWE and even wrestling history have help mid card titles. People like Pat Patterson, Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, John Cena, Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, and so many other great performers have help the IC or U.S. Championships. It usually makes people better when they have a run with one of these types of titles.

It should be considered a huge honor and I think it will give Sheamus some much needed attention going forward. Unless, of course, he never gets a chance to defend it like Daniel Bryan, that is.

 

[tsydrown]

It looked strange in the first instance, but overall, it can surely only do good for Sheamus AND the US Championship?

He's a poor run, not quite in the Main Event scene (Road to WrestleMania prevents him from getting involved) but is still credible enough in many people's eyes to be "up there" with Cena/Orton/Miz et al.

It's a great move IMO, it keeps him strong, hopefully with a good run of victories to showcase his "powerhouse" abilities again (similar to his first run towards the big strap). I don't disagree with his initial push, it really freshened the Main Event for a while. But Sheamus, since winning KotR (IMO) hasn't had that "edge", he drops the gimmick, he's back to regular Sheamus, cracking stuff!

A Sheamus/Bryan fued does interest me, contrasting styles, but good TV time for them both, a regular storyline, help build both guys up before moving Sheamus back up to the ME and passing the strap back to Bryan, with a bit more prestige hopefully . . .

As mentioned above (apologies, I forget the Posters name) Punk, Jericho, Benoit, 3 guys who could easily drop down to the IC/US Title after winning the WWE/WHC, I think Sheamus may be another to add to the list, and my personal opinion is that The Miz could too, that guy is fantastic at the moment.

The current youth movement had given me huge hopes for the next few years. That's without even mentioning the likes of 'Taker, Cena, Triple H, Edge, Randy et al . . .

 

[The Curtis]

i think making Sheamus the US Champion was a good move. Hopefully after his reign as US Champion, he'll be truly ready for the WWE Title picture unlike when WWE tried to jam him down our throats when he debuted on Raw and made him Champ soon after. i hope they build him back up as a monster and less like the the somewhat cowardly brute that he has been since he won the WWE Championship the first time. And i'm still holding out for him and Drew McIntyre to form a tag team.

My only concern about him winning the US Championship is that im affraid Daniel Bryan is gonna fall into obscurity. I'm kinda hoping that Daniel Bryan eventually gets drafted to Smackdown. I think he would really be able to shine on that show.