So I've noticed on forums lately that a lot of people seem to love submission style wrestling. In fact it's almost all I hear people talk about wanting to see return to the WWE, rather than this bastardized version of Lucha Libre we've been seeing the past several years.
I mean, I get it. Shawn Micheals was trained by Jose Lotherio, so even though Shawn himself has spent almost all his time in all american wrestling style promotions his training with Lotherio gave him a Lucha Libre influence that mixed with what he was surrounded with. This helped make him arguably the greatest high flying superstar of all time.
When newcomers start their training to become pro-wrestlers they in turn are influenced by the top guys in the WWE, so now we're seeing guys that were influenced by HBK's style of wrestling, simply because that's what they saw when they were young and they want to incorporate that into their own style. It's both an homage to great high fliers like HBK & Rey Mysterio, who is a pure Lucha Libre living legend, and as they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
However, what we see today is in many ways the result of the legacy left behind by guys like HBK & Mysterio. And neither were submission style wrestlers. Hitman was, Benoit was, in fact, a good majority of the Hart Dungeon graduates were submission style wrestlers. Factor in all of them (including Natalya who even as a diva is an amazing submission style wrestler) as well as Kurt Angle, who do we really see these days that take them as their legends whom they want to imitate? Obviously it's more than just imitation. Every wrestler wants to be their own superstar, but also every superstar is going to look at the guys they grew up loving and want to borrow a signature move or two and incorporate them into their own repertoire. Even so, who are the submission style wrestlers we see today, particularly in the WWE?
Daniel Brian and Natalya Neidhart are really the only ones that come to my mind. Now, I love Naty. Despite CM Punk's claims, I really think Naty is the best wrestler in the WWE today, but she's a diva and has no real competition and divas in general aren't getting a lot of love, let alone TV time. Daniel Brian... eh. I was never his biggest fan, I keep wanting to see some reason to really enjoy watching him wrestle but more often than not he's using quick impact moves, some kind of punch or kick or whatever, and not enough holds, and he's still boring on the mic too.
So I get it. I understand why the IWC wants so badly a return to submission style wrestling and to see more wrestling holds in matches. I agree. I'm also pretty much over the lucha libre style of wrestling too. It has it's place, and it's certainly had it's time in the spotlight, and hopefully will never go away completely. It's time to focus on a different style of wrestling though.
HOWEVER...
What in the blue hell ever happened to power wrestling?
Watch THIS match (here's part 2).
This is power wrestling. See how they fight? It's not a brawl, it's not a street fight. This is wrestling too, and it's a style I've seen even less of lately than submission style wrestling. Power wrestling is really my own term, not a real classically defined term. So don't go thinking I'm trying to define something that doesn't exist. I'm simply trying to show the difference in styles we see in pro-wrestling in the modern era.
When I think of what I define as power wrestling, I think of catch as catch can & greco-roman moves like the slams and the suplexes and tosses, and by and large that's the entirety of the wrestler's repertoire and thus what is seen in the match. This is exemplified nicely by The Steiners vs the Legion of Doom. Look at how few chops, punches, kicks, etc there are, there are no submission holds, this match is pure brute strength with each man picking the other up and slamming him to the mat or tossing clear across the ring.
Kurt Angle did a little of this, and for my memory (which admittedly sucks) he's the last guy I've really seen that had a healthy use of these moves. It's part of the reason I consider Kurt Angle the best wrestler in pro-wrestling's modern history (since the start of PPVs). He was a pure wrestler using both submission and power style moves almost entirely, and rarely ever stooping to chops, punches or kicks, clotheslines, shoulder blocks, etc. Goldberg was a power wrestler, and he did that well, but since he never really wrestled in the WWE, and was far more 1 dimensional in the WWE than even John Cena, it's hard to think of him as a wrestler most of the time. Especially considering that in the WCW a lot of his matches were quick squashes. However when he was booked for longer matches he showed he was a pretty decent power wrestler.
Problem is, both Angle & Goldberg haven't been around competing in that manner in years and years and years. Angle still competes obviously but he's not the power guy he was back 10 years ago.
This power style of wrestling is diluted even more by the famous powerhouses in pro-wrestling history, like Hogan, Warrior & Cena. None of them, not even John Cena (who IS a good wrestler) could compete with some of the muscle bound meatheads of the late 80's and early 90's. The Steiner brothers, British Bulldogs, LOD, Warlord & Barbarian, these guys could power wrestle better than anyone I've ever seen.
Where are the guys that followed in THEIR footsteps? I get it, Hogan, Warrior & Cena have a bad rap by the IWC and are considered bad wrestlers. But this bad rap that especially Cena has, but Hogan & Warrior as well is mostly crap and worst of all is that it appears to be affecting the up and comers who will be tomorrows superstars. No one wants to be a power wrestler because they don't want to be put in the same boat with Cena, Hogan & Warrior. Sure they want their success, but they want the respect that comes from being a submission style wrestler like Hitman, or Angle, or Benoit, or from being a 'high flier' like HBK & Mysterio, or even more likely, a combination of the 2 styles like Jericho & Edge & Christian.
I don't know... Maybe I DON'T get it. The most exciting and awesome spectacles of MY youth were inspired by big guys tossing each other around like rag dolls and showing off how strong they were. "The World's Strongest Man" Mark Henry doesn't do this. I don't even know wtf Ezekiel Jackson & Mason Ryan are doing in the ring. Mark Henry at least can work a match and tell a story. By Jackson & Ryan are two guys who should be two of the greatest spectacles on WWE TV right now and they're both basically jokes.
I can't tell you how much I would love to see some face from back in the day, like Warrior or Rick Steiner or someone (yeah I know Warrior will never work in the WWE again, you don't have to point that out) come back and act as a manager and 'teach' these guys how to wrestle old school power wrestling.
Have you ever looked up the word "Suplex" on wikipedia? Just by wikipedia alone, and without counting there's better than 30 ways to suplex someone. And even if all the used were the most common, suspended, belly to back, belly to belly, gutwrench, german, & inverted (snap suplex is for weaklings), that's still 6 moves right there.
Then you go and look at other power moves like various slams and throws? There's a ton of those to use too, and again if you're using only the most common, like scoop slam, powerslam, powerbomb, atomic drop (when was the last time YOU saw an atomic drop?) back breaker, shoulder breaker, full nelson slam, sidewalk slam, Olympic slam fall away slam & military press (probably forgetting a few too), then you're adding in another 11 moves.
At this point you've got a decent repertoire of moves that are nothing to guys like Mason Ryan & Ezekiel Jackson, and if this is ALL they relied upon as well as the typical stuff like clotheslines and the OCCASIONAL chops, punches, & kicks, and a special finisher (anyone remember how cool Kona Crush's sitdown vise grip was? I still remember him crushing that pineapple) and these two guys could be amazing competitors to see in the ring, and two guys that have a very well defined role in the WWE as well.
Now, I'm not saying I know completely WTF I'm talking about. This is mostly stream of thought writing, but in all sincerity, I feel like pro-wrestling is really lacking in this style of wrestling lately, and it's not for lack of competitors that could fit the bill, it's because these big power wrestlers are trying to fit in to a world that absolutely dominated by lucha libre style wrestlers and where the IWC overwhelmingly is looking for submission style wrestlers like Hitman, Angle & Benoit.
I love submission style wrestling. I want it to make a comeback and become a prominent style of wrestling where we can watch Monday Night Raw and see great matches like Bulldog vs a Hart Brother, or Kurt Angle vs Chris Generico, but every bit as much I want to see matches like the Steiners vs LOD, not necessarily in tag team matches, but in singles matches.
Anyway, let me know your thoughts. I could have spent more time going over this post and making it sound professional and more declarative and assertive, etc, and then put it up on the bleacher report, but I really do want to have a conversation about this with wrestling fans, rather than get up on my soap box and preach and then walk away and never look back.
Like I said I really don't know all the answers here, I'm just expressing my own train of thought regarding a style of wrestling that I badly miss seeing and haven't seen since sometime back in the 1990's. Maybe I'm not paying attention though, that's why I'd like to see what you guys have to say about all this.
I mean, I get it. Shawn Micheals was trained by Jose Lotherio, so even though Shawn himself has spent almost all his time in all american wrestling style promotions his training with Lotherio gave him a Lucha Libre influence that mixed with what he was surrounded with. This helped make him arguably the greatest high flying superstar of all time.
When newcomers start their training to become pro-wrestlers they in turn are influenced by the top guys in the WWE, so now we're seeing guys that were influenced by HBK's style of wrestling, simply because that's what they saw when they were young and they want to incorporate that into their own style. It's both an homage to great high fliers like HBK & Rey Mysterio, who is a pure Lucha Libre living legend, and as they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
However, what we see today is in many ways the result of the legacy left behind by guys like HBK & Mysterio. And neither were submission style wrestlers. Hitman was, Benoit was, in fact, a good majority of the Hart Dungeon graduates were submission style wrestlers. Factor in all of them (including Natalya who even as a diva is an amazing submission style wrestler) as well as Kurt Angle, who do we really see these days that take them as their legends whom they want to imitate? Obviously it's more than just imitation. Every wrestler wants to be their own superstar, but also every superstar is going to look at the guys they grew up loving and want to borrow a signature move or two and incorporate them into their own repertoire. Even so, who are the submission style wrestlers we see today, particularly in the WWE?
Daniel Brian and Natalya Neidhart are really the only ones that come to my mind. Now, I love Naty. Despite CM Punk's claims, I really think Naty is the best wrestler in the WWE today, but she's a diva and has no real competition and divas in general aren't getting a lot of love, let alone TV time. Daniel Brian... eh. I was never his biggest fan, I keep wanting to see some reason to really enjoy watching him wrestle but more often than not he's using quick impact moves, some kind of punch or kick or whatever, and not enough holds, and he's still boring on the mic too.
So I get it. I understand why the IWC wants so badly a return to submission style wrestling and to see more wrestling holds in matches. I agree. I'm also pretty much over the lucha libre style of wrestling too. It has it's place, and it's certainly had it's time in the spotlight, and hopefully will never go away completely. It's time to focus on a different style of wrestling though.
HOWEVER...
What in the blue hell ever happened to power wrestling?
Watch THIS match (here's part 2).
This is power wrestling. See how they fight? It's not a brawl, it's not a street fight. This is wrestling too, and it's a style I've seen even less of lately than submission style wrestling. Power wrestling is really my own term, not a real classically defined term. So don't go thinking I'm trying to define something that doesn't exist. I'm simply trying to show the difference in styles we see in pro-wrestling in the modern era.
When I think of what I define as power wrestling, I think of catch as catch can & greco-roman moves like the slams and the suplexes and tosses, and by and large that's the entirety of the wrestler's repertoire and thus what is seen in the match. This is exemplified nicely by The Steiners vs the Legion of Doom. Look at how few chops, punches, kicks, etc there are, there are no submission holds, this match is pure brute strength with each man picking the other up and slamming him to the mat or tossing clear across the ring.
Kurt Angle did a little of this, and for my memory (which admittedly sucks) he's the last guy I've really seen that had a healthy use of these moves. It's part of the reason I consider Kurt Angle the best wrestler in pro-wrestling's modern history (since the start of PPVs). He was a pure wrestler using both submission and power style moves almost entirely, and rarely ever stooping to chops, punches or kicks, clotheslines, shoulder blocks, etc. Goldberg was a power wrestler, and he did that well, but since he never really wrestled in the WWE, and was far more 1 dimensional in the WWE than even John Cena, it's hard to think of him as a wrestler most of the time. Especially considering that in the WCW a lot of his matches were quick squashes. However when he was booked for longer matches he showed he was a pretty decent power wrestler.
Problem is, both Angle & Goldberg haven't been around competing in that manner in years and years and years. Angle still competes obviously but he's not the power guy he was back 10 years ago.
This power style of wrestling is diluted even more by the famous powerhouses in pro-wrestling history, like Hogan, Warrior & Cena. None of them, not even John Cena (who IS a good wrestler) could compete with some of the muscle bound meatheads of the late 80's and early 90's. The Steiner brothers, British Bulldogs, LOD, Warlord & Barbarian, these guys could power wrestle better than anyone I've ever seen.
Where are the guys that followed in THEIR footsteps? I get it, Hogan, Warrior & Cena have a bad rap by the IWC and are considered bad wrestlers. But this bad rap that especially Cena has, but Hogan & Warrior as well is mostly crap and worst of all is that it appears to be affecting the up and comers who will be tomorrows superstars. No one wants to be a power wrestler because they don't want to be put in the same boat with Cena, Hogan & Warrior. Sure they want their success, but they want the respect that comes from being a submission style wrestler like Hitman, or Angle, or Benoit, or from being a 'high flier' like HBK & Mysterio, or even more likely, a combination of the 2 styles like Jericho & Edge & Christian.
I don't know... Maybe I DON'T get it. The most exciting and awesome spectacles of MY youth were inspired by big guys tossing each other around like rag dolls and showing off how strong they were. "The World's Strongest Man" Mark Henry doesn't do this. I don't even know wtf Ezekiel Jackson & Mason Ryan are doing in the ring. Mark Henry at least can work a match and tell a story. By Jackson & Ryan are two guys who should be two of the greatest spectacles on WWE TV right now and they're both basically jokes.
I can't tell you how much I would love to see some face from back in the day, like Warrior or Rick Steiner or someone (yeah I know Warrior will never work in the WWE again, you don't have to point that out) come back and act as a manager and 'teach' these guys how to wrestle old school power wrestling.
Have you ever looked up the word "Suplex" on wikipedia? Just by wikipedia alone, and without counting there's better than 30 ways to suplex someone. And even if all the used were the most common, suspended, belly to back, belly to belly, gutwrench, german, & inverted (snap suplex is for weaklings), that's still 6 moves right there.
Then you go and look at other power moves like various slams and throws? There's a ton of those to use too, and again if you're using only the most common, like scoop slam, powerslam, powerbomb, atomic drop (when was the last time YOU saw an atomic drop?) back breaker, shoulder breaker, full nelson slam, sidewalk slam, Olympic slam fall away slam & military press (probably forgetting a few too), then you're adding in another 11 moves.
At this point you've got a decent repertoire of moves that are nothing to guys like Mason Ryan & Ezekiel Jackson, and if this is ALL they relied upon as well as the typical stuff like clotheslines and the OCCASIONAL chops, punches, & kicks, and a special finisher (anyone remember how cool Kona Crush's sitdown vise grip was? I still remember him crushing that pineapple) and these two guys could be amazing competitors to see in the ring, and two guys that have a very well defined role in the WWE as well.
Now, I'm not saying I know completely WTF I'm talking about. This is mostly stream of thought writing, but in all sincerity, I feel like pro-wrestling is really lacking in this style of wrestling lately, and it's not for lack of competitors that could fit the bill, it's because these big power wrestlers are trying to fit in to a world that absolutely dominated by lucha libre style wrestlers and where the IWC overwhelmingly is looking for submission style wrestlers like Hitman, Angle & Benoit.
I love submission style wrestling. I want it to make a comeback and become a prominent style of wrestling where we can watch Monday Night Raw and see great matches like Bulldog vs a Hart Brother, or Kurt Angle vs Chris Generico, but every bit as much I want to see matches like the Steiners vs LOD, not necessarily in tag team matches, but in singles matches.
Anyway, let me know your thoughts. I could have spent more time going over this post and making it sound professional and more declarative and assertive, etc, and then put it up on the bleacher report, but I really do want to have a conversation about this with wrestling fans, rather than get up on my soap box and preach and then walk away and never look back.
Like I said I really don't know all the answers here, I'm just expressing my own train of thought regarding a style of wrestling that I badly miss seeing and haven't seen since sometime back in the 1990's. Maybe I'm not paying attention though, that's why I'd like to see what you guys have to say about all this.
