Foley refused to take the fall?

[Vintage Nick]

Jason Powell of ProWrestling.net is reporting that Mick Foley lobbied to have the finish changed for his tag team match with Kurt Angle against Abyss and Matt Morgan which aired this past Thursday night on TNA Impact.

Apparently, Foley did not like the planned finish of the match, which called for Mick to take the pin fall in the bout, and due to his backstage politicking, TNA shot the finish of the contest by having Dr. Stevie and Daffney come out and replace Foley mid way through the match. All of this was Foley's idea, however, after the match apparently bombed and TNA officials were unhappy with it, they decided to reshoot the match with the original plan which called for Foley to take the pin fall, which is of course the version of the match that aired on Impact last week.

Following the first taping last week, it's being said that Foley's backstage lobbying upset a few talents in the locker room, and several TNA sources feel that Foley was simply trying to avoid taking the pin fall in the match as opposed to him feeling that his idea was the better "creative" move. While it's being said that Foley did not put of a fight when TNA wanted to re-shoot the match, it was noted that his antics left somewhat of a bad taste in the mouths of several TNA talents.

Really Mick? Too proud to take the fall to Abyss or Morgan? I thought you wanted to help out talent, unless I was wrong?

(sorry post is short, I have to get going. I'll edit it later with more of what's on my mind)

 

[gd]

Well, can't always trust these internet reporters, not sure where they're getting their info from, but I'll go along with it.

Obviousy, bad move by Foley to be complaining here. He already got a random run with the world title in TNA, he shouldn't be complaining about getting pinned here or there, it's just silly really.

There seems to have been a lot of this going on in TNA recently, the vets refusing to put over the younger guys. Hopefully they get all this crap figured out with BFG coming up soon, where new stars should be made.

 

[X]

Mick Foley has put over more talent in his career than anyone, ever. To even insinuate that he's some selfish backstage lobbyist who doesn't want to put talent over is beyond stupid, it's downright insulting.

Mick has destroyed his body for this business. If he thought a different outcome to the match was better, I don't see a problem with that, especially considering he DID end up taking the pinfall. So yeah, this isn't even an issue, I can't believe this would upset anyone.

 

[Jimmbo420]

Mick Foley has put over more talent in his career than anyone, ever. To even insinuate that he's some selfish backstage lobbyist who doesn't want to put talent over is beyond stupid, it's downright insulting.

Mick has destroyed his body for this business. If he thought a different outcome to the match was better, I don't see a problem with that, especially considering he DID end up taking the pinfall. So yeah, this isn't even an issue, I can't believe this would upset anyone.

I agree. He thought that a diffrent finish would be better,so they tried it but it didn't turn out looking good, so he did the original finish. He did end up taking the pinfall so I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[Tyrath]

I have to agree with X here. Seeing the title made me think he actually refused to do it. But even the report says that he re-shot it without complaint. So what is the problem here? People might have had something to complain about if he actually caused a commotion and didn't do the second finish.

 

[AzLunchbox]

Well i agree with both sides here.

He did take the fall and re-did the part they had to so good for him for that.

What i don't agree with is that he did what causes problems in the wrestling world....he did what ruins this sport....he used politics!

Mick Foley is a wrestling talent, a wrestler.....not a member of the creative team, not a member of the booking committee. It is NOT HIS JOB to tell people what to do. He is there to do what he is told to do and to make it look good. Too many people are in business for themselves and it's bull! That's not how the world works. If i went into my work and told my boss that we're doing things my way because i don't like what he's doing....I'd either be kicked out of his office or fired.

Foley should have no say in what happens in a match, even if he's a part of the match, he is there to perform and do a good job and make the match into what the company wants it to be, not to tell them what the match is going to be. Sure if he wants to work out some spots or moves then fine.....but not the creative direction of the match....that's going too far and i feel Foley crossed the line there, even if he did finally go with their idea....it should have never been an issue.

And this is coming from a life long Foley fan too.....I just don't agree with politicking...you're hired for a job....do it!

 

[Lee]

Foley should have no say in what happens in a match, even if he's a part of the match, he is there to perform and do a good job and make the match into what the company wants it to be, not to tell them what the match is going to be. Sure if he wants to work out some spots or moves then fine.....but not the creative direction of the match....that's going too far and i feel Foley crossed the line there, even if he did finally go with their idea....it should have never been an issue.

And this is coming from a life long Foley fan too.....I just don't agree with politicking...you're hired for a job....do it!

Foley has been wrestling for 26 years, he's been in the biggest promotions of the past twenty years, he has experience. Foley has every right to say maybe this would work better. It's the same with any job, if someone's been doing it for quarter of a century you'd listen to their opinion on the matter. This is far from politicking to get his way, it was just what he felt was better.

 

[wrestling fan 666]

I have to agree with Mr.L on this one. Anyone who's put in the time, like 26 years, in any business should at least be heard. I really believe that this report is taken out of context (like most gossip). He might not have wanted to put them over on this night for a reason; but no one said EVER put them over. He's a veteran who knows how to sell stories and as such should be respected.

WrestleZone is a great website, but the stories lately are not as accurate as they were when I first found the site. They really need to verify their stories before they just send them out. Before anyone starts getting up in arms with me about this last bit, just look at the retractions printed a day or so later.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Mick Foley has put over more talent in his career than anyone, ever. To even insinuate that he's some selfish backstage lobbyist who doesn't want to put talent over is beyond stupid, it's downright insulting.

Mick has destroyed his body for this business. If he thought a different outcome to the match was better, I don't see a problem with that, especially considering he DID end up taking the pinfall. So yeah, this isn't even an issue, I can't believe this would upset anyone.

People change over time, X. Not saying for sure this is exactly what happened here, but the story sounds plausible. If they had to redo the match and changed finishes, clearly there was a reason that it was reshot with Foley taking the pinfall, as opposed to that transpiring the first time.

I'm not condemning Mick here without hearing of further reports, but I am keeping an open mind to the possibility that this did happen.

 

[X]

People change over time, X. Not saying for sure this is exactly what happened here, but the story sounds plausible. If they had to redo the match and changed finishes, clearly there was a reason that it was reshot with Foley taking the pinfall, as opposed to that transpiring the first time.

But just the fact that Foley went ahead and took the pinfall anyways should make this entire "issue" a moot point. It's not like Foley was trying to hold young talent down, I mean he went out there and did the job anyways. From the sounds of this report, he made a suggestion, they tried it out, it didn't work, and they went ahead and re-shot it with the original ending. No big deal, and Foley still did the job.

I mean, come on, can anyone imagine Mick Foley refusing to put over young talent? Especially guys like Abyss who are so similar to him. With the recent passing of his father I'm sure the last thing on Foley's mind is trying to hold down young talent.

 

[ABMorales787]

For all we know maybe he had in mind to push the Dr. Stevie/Abyss feud, I mean, he is the guest ref in the monster's ball. He probably thought it might be best to push that but it didn't turn out that way. Anybody can make a mistake and anybody can make a bad judgment call. TNA saw it as an abuse of power but I see it as a simple mistake which Foley did not complain to correct.

 

[chanfan304]

But just the fact that Foley went ahead and took the pinfall anyways should make this entire "issue" a moot point. It's not like Foley was trying to hold young talent down, I mean he went out there and did the job anyways.

There are two ways to look at this perspective. If he did "politic" because he didn't want to do the job, but then realized that it blew up in his face, he could have re-thought his position in order to save face. (And no, it doesn't sound like Mick, but like one poster said, people change. We might not like to think so, but they do.) And the other option is still also valid, that he just thought he was making a good suggestion and it ended up not being right which also happens from time to time. But if the story does hold validity, and there are people that know if he pulled the politic game or not, and people are upset by it, then there has to be some merit in the story. Just because somebody might be looked up to in high regard does not mean that they are above doing self-serving things at some point in their life. Fact is, nobody was there that is writing about it on this forum so this is obviously just opinion. But if there were people present then they must know something we don't. That in itself doesn't make this a "moot" point. Hell, maybe he even just got tired of seeing the other older guys politic backstage and decided to give it a go himself. It could easily have been built up frustration that drove him to try something he'd never tried before (to our knowledge). People are capable of crazy things... It's not that far of a stretch to think that maybe he wanted try something different. Or it could very well be like the Def Agent above said. He thought it would work towards another idea, it didn't, and he said "shit, I fucked up. Well, I'll do it the other way then" without complaining. Of course he could have saved a lot of time and assumption if he would have just explained that viewpoint to creative when he lobbied to change the end which, as a veteran and a sound minded individual, I'd think he would have if that was the case. I mean, he's explained his reasoning in detail before, I don't think he'd ask to change things around without giving an explanation as to what he was thinking. That would disspell all of the assumptions from TNA that it was abuse of power. No, on second thought, I think he would be too aware that he could be taken wrong and want to tell them why he wanted to do it if it was just re-thinking something for the good of a storyline. That would be too easy to explain without sending the wrong signal. I'm sure there was more to it than that.

 

[mdj2010]

Quick post so quick reply.

Stupid, Mick Foley does not need to be questioned on this kinda stuff.

 

[johnbragg]

Y'know, Foley has lost a LOT of credibility with his TNA run.

Think about it. If Foley had been sitting at home in Long Island since leaving WWE, maybe guest reffing an ROH event or two, I think he would be on the list with Gabe Sapolsky and Paul Heyman of "who do we wish would take over TNA creative?"

Now the IWC is arguing over whether or not he would refuse to take a pinfall.

Is it just me, or has a golden reputation been tarnished with a foolish TNA World Title run? (Chemistry experts out there know that that ain't easy.)

 

[chanfan304]

Quick post so quick reply.

Stupid, Mick Foley does not need to be questioned on this kinda stuff.

Nobody is above being questioned about anything. Not even Mick Foley. "And HBK wasn't a no-jobbing douchebag, Stone Cold wasn't a wife beater, Mr. 'Say your prayers and eat your vitamins, kids' Hogan who was a hero to millions of children wasn't a backstage politicking backstabbing shithead..." etc. etc. Point is, anybody is capable of anything. Even Mick. Just because he hasn't refused to job in the past doesn't mean he doesn't think about it now. In WWE he was in a different structure. Maybe when he went to TNA he thought since he was a major WWE player, that the TNA talent was "beneath him" and he deserved more. Kurt Angle wasn't the way he was until he went to TNA either. Now he's got more of an ego than he ever did. Maybe it just goes with the change of environment and a star trying to keep himself "on top" because in his mind he "took a step down" going to TNA. One never knows what goes on in the minds of people. Especially one that's taken as many shots to the head as Foley. The beatings coupled with age may finally have taken it's toll. lol

 

[Dave]

Y'know, Foley has lost a LOT of credibility with his TNA run.

Think about it. If Foley had been sitting at home in Long Island since leaving WWE, maybe guest reffing an ROH event or two, I think he would be on the list with Gabe Sapolsky and Paul Heyman of "who do we wish would take over TNA creative?"

Now the IWC is arguing over whether or not he would refuse to take a pinfall.

Is it just me, or has a golden reputation been tarnished with a foolish TNA World Title run? (Chemistry experts out there know that that ain't easy.)

No, I completely agree with you. Since Foley joined TNA, I haven't looked at him the same way. He just seems like he is trying to etch out the last of his career and really should be making strides to use his influence to put newer guys over... Not arguing about who should take a fall. I would have thought that Mick Foley would have been above that and I also think that TNA was never a good step for Foley. I thought that once he joined he would take a back seat and just take up a role similar to what Shawn Michaels is doing in WWE.

It just seems to me that TNA is in a bit of a mess at the minute. There is a lot of big personalities in there and I think that a lot of them think that they are bigger than the company they are wrestling for. No one is above taking a pin, not even Foley.

 

[johnbragg]

When Foley came to TNA, I really believed that it meant he was getting the book.

He has done everything else there is to do in wrestling. Hardcore titles. World titles. Tag titles. Territories, Japan, WCW, ECW, WWF. Heel turns, face turns. "Foley is God" signs. Storyline commissioner. "Have a Nice Day" signs. Color commentator. Wrestling books. Children's books, even. All that, and walk away while you can still walk.

So why come to TNA? What could TNA offer him that he hadn't done? I was sure that Foley was there to take over TNA's booking. Now it looks like he's another victim of Terry Funk Syndrome--he just can't give it up, just can't stop abusing his body to get that charge out of the crowd. And TNA would let him back in the ring, while WWE wouldn't.

(I'm not saying that Vince would be concerned with Foley's health and so wouldn't use him. It's just that seeing Foley bleed one more time doesn't really fit with WWE's TV or PPV strategy these days. There's not enough juice left in the orange to make a WWE PPV match. See also Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan.)

Edit: One more thing. Maybe you aren't bigger than the company, but you know you're bigger than some of the other guys you see bigfooting this company around. Imagine if Buff Bagwell was bigfooting around WCW in 1999-2000. Not Goldberg, Nash, Hall, Hogan, Sting, Flair or Dusty Rhodes, but Buff Bagwell.

So if Booker can change match endings, and you have limited respect for Creative anyway, maybe you change match endings "for the good of the company"?

 

[FriedEggSandwich]

I think all of this was blown out of proportion and possibly misunderstood. Foley still took the pin AND put Abyss well over last night. Mick has done so much for the business and anyone who ever doubted him needs to go check theirself!