Foley has head trauma: Bringing reality in, or a "worked shoot"?

[johnbragg]

Another Reason “Worked Shoots” are a Bad Strategy

TNA is committed, for now, to blurring the line of real and fake, of bringing real elements into the scripted world of wrestling, and of “working” the outside world for the benefit of their storylines. From TNADixie’s tweets, to the videos exaggerating Hogan’s hospitalization, to Hogan’s twitter video last week about “getting more real,” it’s fair to say that TNA has adopted a strategy of “creative ambiguity” about what is “real” and what is not in and around TNA.

We talked about all that last week. So why a new thread?

Mick Foley apparently told an interviewer for TSN in Canada that he has head trauma issues from his wrestling career. Foley has always been a company guy in whatever company he was in.

How confident can we be that Foley is being truthful with TSN? How do we know that Foley isn’t “working” the media? Don’t tell me that wrestlers would never lie to the media—it was industry standard practice when Foley started.

Do I believe that Foley has head injury issues? I’d say probably. I’d say 80% chance of being true, given his history, the bumps he’s taken, the deathmatches in Japan, the Hell in a Cell match with Undertaker, the chairshots, etc. I’d be really surprised if an evaluation didn’t show any effects of all that.

Does it help TNA that an outsider can’t trust anything that a TNA employee or executive says? It can’t help, especially when it comes time to negotiate sponsorships and advertising deals. I certainly wouldn’t trust TNA financial data that I couldn’t verify, that wasn’t sworn in some legally binding fashion.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

What exactly does being in character when you shouldn't and mixing real life aspects with fake wrestling have to do with advertising and sponsorships? Because that's what Foley does if he's lying about his head trauma, he's in character. Like you said, lying to the media was an industry standard practice, and if he is, then this is nothing new. It never stopped advertising deals and sponsorships, did it? Chris Jericho and Micky Rourke lied their asses off for a few months before Wrestlemania and I thought it was really cool.

What do you mean by "an outsider"? A journalist or a someone who might help with their advertising and a sposnor. I'm pretty sure that people on that level would contact TNA staff personally and discuss whatever's needed to discuss and not draw conclusions from interviews of people in character. If it's a journalist -- of course it helps if a journalist can't trust what TNA employee/executive says about HIS OWN career. They won't lie about numbers and shit, they lie about their health, storylines and feelings toward other TNA guys. I hope you're not thinking that they'll lie about numbers.

And it CAN help TNA if a journalist doesn't know if he can trust Foley's head trauma issue. Why? He'll just do what TNA wants the journalist to do, and that report the issue at hand just the way he heard it. All we can do is speculate about it and not have a clue - which is what wrestling fans USED to be all about when wrestling still had that sizzle. TNA knows that fans got too smart and can see through the business like never before, so it's time to out-smart them and have them be clueless about what happens backstage, so they'll tune in and see how it folds out on TV. We will no longer know that for example wrestler A is good friends with wrestler B backstage, but they're feuding on TV. Instead, we'll only believe what TNA feeds us, and we'll see it play out on TV as well. It's a smart strategy. Just like HBK's head trauma back in the day when he passed out in the ring. It's one of the more memorable moments in WWF history, they fooled everyone and people actually thought that HBK is wrestling with a concussion or whatever and maybe feared for him, which created an amazing moment for his fans when he won The Royal Rumble two times in a row. I would've been amazed if I didn't know it was all a work.

You're usually the one that shits on TNA about everything they do, it kind of makes me wonder why in the hell you bother to do posts about it if you're not a fan. Kind of sad, but still, I didn't quite get where you were going with the thread and if it's just another attempt at bitching about something that can prove to be quite new and successfull.

 

[ABMorales787]

So, he doesn't really have head trauma? Come on. The guy lost an ear in the ring. There's a difference between a "worked shoot" and just plain old lying. I don't recall Hogan's back surgery being exaggerated. Especially with TMZ being all over it. He was just stupid and got off bed early. There's a reason he isn't on TV right now. This isn't bringing reality in. It's pointing out the obvious.

 

[Honkey_Kong]

So, he doesn't really have head trauma? Come on. The guy lost an ear in the ring. There's a difference between a "worked shoot" and just plain old lying. I don't recall Hogan's back surgery being exaggerated. Especially with TMZ being all over it. He was just stupid and got off bed early. There's a reason he isn't on TV right now. This isn't bringing reality in. It's pointing out the obvious.

After all the beatings that Foley's head went through during his career, I'd be less inclined to believe that he doesn't have brain injuries. Forget losing the ear, that was an accident with Vader. The man has fallen from heights, been bashed in the head with every foreign object you can think of and on top of that took the bumps that normally come from wrestling.

 

[Navi]

Mick Foley apparently told an interviewer for TSN in Canada that he has head trauma issues from his wrestling career. Foley has always been a company guy in whatever company he was in.

How confident can we be that Foley is being truthful with TSN? How do we know that Foley isn’t “working” the media? Don’t tell me that wrestlers would never lie to the media—it was industry standard practice when Foley started.

First of all TSN isn't TMZ. The so called journalists at TMZ are a punch of paparazzi who spend their time running after cars with celebrities in them. TSN on the other hand is a respected sports station with actual sports journalists who know the wrestling business.

But I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that Foley had received head injuries over the years that might lead to lasting damage. Did he say what specially the trama was or what symptoms he's suffering from? I didn't see the interview so that's why I ask.

As for working the media. Is it really a good thing in the world of PG wrestling to mention that he was beaten half stupid in the ring? And also why is he still wrestling if he's suffering? I like Foley but really only a fool would do that.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

As for working the media. Is it really a good thing in the world of PG wrestling to mention that he was beaten half stupid in the ring? And also why is he still wrestling if he's suffering? I like Foley but really only a fool would do that.

World of PG wrestling? What world are you living in? The WWE is the biggest company and it is PG but the rest of the world is not. Yes it is freakin' good to mention that he was beaten half stupid in the ring. The PG crap just make wrestling seem faker than fake, especially in 2010. Trying to cover that up and lie about it is absolutely idiotic when everyone knows the deal. Foley mentioning his head trauma would show the non-wrestling fans that the physicallity is real. A lot of non-wrestling fans still believe that these guys cannot possibly get hurt in the ring, because they don't know all the details and think that since it looks so easy it is. It's not doing much, but if more wrestlers spoke about their injuries like that then maybe us wrestling fans wouldn't get ridiculed and laughed at for watching "that shit".

And Foley? Wrestling? How many times did he wrestle this year? Twice? Is he a fool for doing that scary bump off the ramp a few weeks ago tho? He is. But then again, that's always been Foley. Only an idiot would agree to be thrown off a cage through a table. The guy makes his living acting like a fool.

 

[johnbragg]

I didn't quite get where you were going with the thread

Just that when I saw the article about Foley, my second or third reaction was to question whether this was a straight interview or whether Foley and TNA were furthering a storyline.

What exactly does being in character when you shouldn't and mixing real life aspects with fake wrestling have to do with advertising and sponsorships?

Because if "working the rubes" is your MO, your strategy, then you will treat the advertisers/sponsors as "rubes." Like the people who believe what Dixie Carter says to the media about TNA revenues.

Like you said, lying to the media was an industry standard practice, and if he is, then this is nothing new. It never stopped advertising deals and sponsorships, did it?

Back in the days of kayfabe, there were no sponsorships or advertising to speak of. Wrestling promotions sold tickets and maybe t-shirts. It's a different era today.

I'm pretty sure that people on that level would contact TNA staff personally and discuss whatever's needed to discuss and not draw conclusions from interviews of people in character.

Like who? Who at TNA is the "Linda McMahon", the figure that doesn't act like a carny shill? @TNADixie? Hogan? Bischoff? Jarrett? A businessman would be a damn fool to trust anything they said that couldn't be confirmed through outside sources.

It's a smart strategy.

You're enjoying it, so that's good. We'll see if it's smart strategy--the ratings say that TNA has the same audience it had a year ago and two years ago.

You're usually the one that shits on TNA about everything they do

Not everything. I thought Morgan's turn was well done, logically explained and quite believable. I also liked Jeff Hardy's heel turn--unexpected, yet not illogical.

There's a difference between a "worked shoot" and just plain old lying.

No there isn't. Once you set the goal of fooling people, you lose track of where that line is. This is why some people didn't believe in Andy Kaufman's death for a couple of years. (At least according to the Jim Carrey movie.)

So, he doesn't really have head trauma? Come on.

I said there's an 80% chance that he does. But since Foley is a TNA guy, and since this fits in so perfectly well with current storylines, and since TNA has decided to go with the "worked shoot--blur the lines" strategy, you have to consider the possibility that Foley is "working the media" or "bringing back kayfabe" or, in other words, lying. Especially if his book sales have declined to the point where his TNA checks are a lot bigger than his royalty checks.

I don't recall Hogan's back surgery being exaggerated.

You don't remember a video a few weeks ago of Hogan on the toilet, then the dramatic footage of Impact and Reaction of Hogan going into surgery, then Hogan showing up at Bound For Glory not using his crutches? Now he's playing Def Rapper 3 or whatever, apparently pain free?

Especially with TMZ being all over it.

TMZ got worked. I got worked. You got worked. Accept it. Get over it.

(It's also possible that TMZ or someone at TMZ is in on the con. They also played the J-Woww story straight, as if TNA were Fox Celebrity Boxing or something rather than scripted entertainment.)

 

[johnbragg]

Is it really a good thing in the world of PG wrestling to mention that he was beaten half stupid in the ring?

Honesty should be the default policy. The damage that wrestlers do to themselves and each other is real. If the damage is too much, the answer isn't to sweep it under the rug and not talk about it--the answer is to change the business so that, say, Abyss at 50 doesn't have the kind of damage that Foley does.

WWE, home of PG, might not want to talk about it to their largely too-young-to-drive audience, but they've dealt with the issue by restraining the wrestlers. The shooting star press is rare in WWE for a reason. The Wellness Policy is there for a reason. Cynical or not, WWE can respond that they have incorporated some lessons from the tragedies of the past.

 

[shattered dreams]

Bragg, are you really suggesting people negotiate business deals based on clips heard in the media or dirtsheets? Please tell me you are not serious. If they need to know TNA financials and TNA agrees that is necessary then they provide the records etc. Only a business run by total morons would take anyones word for it. Especially one just thrown out there to the media. TNA is not doing serious business when they use "worked shoots." They exploit the tendency of the dirtsheets to exaggerate everything and then tell a story within that embellishment. That has nothing to do with the business side of stuff. There is a huge difference between working the IWC and duping investors. In this specific situation I would guess that Foley is bringing up a real issue he had because it is relevant and adds to current TNA storylines. There are plenty of ways to make things more "real" being done in TNA that are beyond lying. One of which is truthfully discussing injuries and their aftermath, especially visually.

 

[sTyLnK]

The questions that are asked on Off the Record by the host Landsberg is always about real life and the wrestlers always give truthful responses. Never any shoot interviews on that show. Ever. It's not exactly surprising that he would have problems. The guy's body is broken down beyond belief. It's very possible he could have some brain damage. In the interview though he just says he believes he could have brain trauma. Hell even he isn't sure.

 

[JJYanks121]

This may be one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen. Just curious, but did any of you do any research on the venue where Foley did this interview?

The show is called "off the record" and it has been host to many wrestlers in the past. It is a Canadian show and its premise is to take wrestlers out of character and speak candidly about the business. If you go back in time about 5-8 years, you will find some excellent interviews done with Edge, Bret Hart, and more. In Edge's, he admits to using steroids to recover from injury. This is not something that would benefit anyone by saying, but this is notoriously an honest show. It's also why it's one of the best on TV in terms of understanding the wrestling business.

Something wrestling fans need to accept, and it's kind of sad that a lot won't, is that people do not LIVE wrestling. That's not to say that it's not in their blood and they don't love it, but they don't live in their gimmick. I'm pretty sure Triple H isn't at home taking out a sledgehammer every time he gets mad at a McMahon. Wrestling isn't real, and the sooner we accept it, the sooner wrestling can move forward and be a MUCH better product.

The way to do that is to move forward and produce the show like any other TV show and rely on the actors(wrestlers) to perform their roles to perfection. Do so in the couple of hours on screen and that's it. To try and use outside shows as storyline furtherance is silly. That means you are expecting people to not just watch your show, but watch EVERYTHING on TV, twitter, facebook, etc, just to follow a story. That's crazy. We're talking about episodic TV which also has a monthly Pay Per View for major storyline developments. Those should be your only mediums where people are "in character". What I find great is when you can get to know guys outside of their characters. People on here were excited when Orton spoke like a real dude on twitter and said he watched Impact and liked it. Why should he be able to be pretty real why Cena has to pretend that Barrett didn't let him on twitter and Jeff Hardy has to pretend he's a dick on it. It makes no sense. These are actors on a TV show. Please accept that.

As for Foley, there is NO QUESTION that he has had head trauma. This guy took 18 STRAIGHT chair shots to the head from the Rock. If that doesn't give you head trauma, I don't know what will. Unfortunately, that was part of the business back then. Thankfully, the business is finally cleaning up now. If you really have to think about whether Foley is being real about that, then you probably need your own head checked. In no way, shape, or form, would Foley go on a show that isn't Impact to talk about the punishment his body took and expect ALL the Impact viewers to watch because it's furthering a storyline. That's ridiculous, especially since the show only airs in Canada!!!! Foley is being Foley, and being honest with the fact that he was a nutjob and basically could have killed himself doing the shit he did. This is not a storyline, this is his life.

It's sad that the world has so many great mediums of communication, but the wrestling world cannot for fear that ever means is convoluted with in character portrayal and one needs to follow them all to fully understand a 2 hour product. KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. Keep the stories confined to the time you are on your product each week. Do that and the business is all the better.

 

[themegapowers]

Like who? Who at TNA is the "Linda McMahon", the figure that doesn't act like a carny shill? @TNADixie? Hogan? Bischoff? Jarrett? A businessman would be a damn fool to trust anything they said that couldn't be confirmed through outside sources.

Seriously?

The owner of TNA wrestling is Robert W Carter, Chris Sobol is the Vice President of Operations, Kevin Day is Chief Operating Office.

I kind of think that these people are the "Linda McMahon" figure you are refering too, please don't tell me you actually think that Hogan and Bischoff go to annual financial reviews?

 

[johnbragg]

please don't tell me you actually think that Hogan and Bischoff go to annual financial reviews?

Well, until around a month ago, the TNA "party line" was that Hogan's value was as a worldwide icon who could open doors for TNA with sponsors and companies by the value of his name. I guess I haven't gotten my November copy of TNA Pravda in the mail yet, sorry. Obviously you would never have him or Bischoff, a successful TV executive and producer-creator of a string of reality shows, talking to investors, sponsors, advertisers, venue owners etc. about TNA's financial picture and how a partnership with TNA would benefit them.

The owner of TNA wrestling is Robert W Carter

Who, as far as we know, is not involved in the running of the company--that's what he pays TNA President Dixie Carter and Bischoff and Hogan for.

Chris Sobol is the Vice President of Operations, Kevin Day is Chief Operating Office.

As far as I can tell, Chris Sobol is still there, but Kevin Day left in 2006--again, as far as I can tell.

 

[yoshi_doce2006]

Foley has had over 20 diagnosed concussions. I have had 4 and have trouble with my memory. There is little to no doubt that Foley suffers from some sort of trauma from all of his concussions, he just hasn't made it public. Worked shoot, possibly, but truth, most likely.

 

[Aotearoa (Bushwacker)]

Real or not, shoot or not, I think that they have completely achieved their purpose here and that is to get people talking. The more people talk about it you create a buzz and the brand grows. Everytime people debate whether it is a shoot or not they mention the name TNA and the more people mentioning the name has to be good for business. Anything that gets people talking about the product has to be good for business, right?

 

[themegapowers]

Well, until around a month ago, the TNA "party line" was that Hogan's value was as a worldwide icon who could open doors for TNA with sponsors and companies by the value of his name. I guess I haven't gotten my November copy of TNA Pravda in the mail yet, sorry. Obviously you would never have him or Bischoff, a successful TV executive and producer-creator of a string of reality shows, talking to investors, sponsors, advertisers, venue owners etc. about TNA's financial picture and how a partnership with TNA would benefit them.


Who, as far as we know, is not involved in the running of the company--that's what he pays TNA President Dixie Carter and Bischoff and Hogan for.



As far as I can tell, Chris Sobol is still there, but Kevin Day left in 2006--again, as far as I can tell.

My apologies my information was wrong Kevin Day has left, however I believe that Andy Barton is Executive Vice President of Licensing and International television distribution, Dean Broadhead is Chief Financial Officer and Al Ovadia is Chief Marketing Officer, I am sure one of these people would negotiate advertisment, sponsorship and investors.

However, the name Hulk Hogan may influence people to invest and advertise in the company, but Terry Bolea wouldn't sit down at the negotiating table with the said investors/advertisers.

 

[MB1025]

Bragg, are you really suggesting people negotiate business deals based on clips heard in the media or dirtsheets? Please tell me you are not serious. If they need to know TNA financials and TNA agrees that is necessary then they provide the records etc. Only a business run by total morons would take anyones word for it. Especially one just thrown out there to the media. TNA is not doing serious business when they use "worked shoots." They exploit the tendency of the dirtsheets to exaggerate everything and then tell a story within that embellishment. That has nothing to do with the business side of stuff. There is a huge difference between working the IWC and duping investors. In this specific situation I would guess that Foley is bringing up a real issue he had because it is relevant and adds to current TNA storylines. There are plenty of ways to make things more "real" being done in TNA that are beyond lying. One of which is truthfully discussing injuries and their aftermath, especially visually.

What he is doing is trying to pick articles or situations so he can start another thread about TNA doing something wrong or stupid. I don't even know why this is being debated. In sports in general the big things are concussions. Not only that TNA has a legitimate thing going on right now with Mr. Anderson. Of course it will be brought up in interviews. IMO why should anyone question what Foley says in his interviews unless you are trying to stir something up and I would never think bragg would do something like that in the TNA forum.

 

[johnbragg]

I don't even know why this is being debated.

Look, the reality is that if Foley did the interview a month ago and did the same thing, I wouldn't have reacted by thinking "Is this a work?"

TNA and Hogan have moved in the direction of worked shoots and blurring the line. That colors the perception of everything around TNA.

I wasn't any kind of wrestling fan yet at the beginning of 2008, I knew that Foley was beated up badly at the Rumble because there was something in his book about it--I didn't know 18 head shots. So it would be a miracle if Foley didn't suffer effects from that.

 

[The Crock]

Mick Foley was obviously telling the truth. He's taken so many insane bumps over the course of his long career that I would be STUNNED if he didn't have head trauma issues. There's the few obvious bumps that come to mind, like the HIAC falls, but he's wrestled a lot of matches and a lot of them have been extreme matches, he definitely has some issues. Anyway, why lie about this? It's not as if TNA will get more viewers if the fans know that there's a wrestler with head trauma.

 

[DeathClutch]

Realistically speaking it's a worked shoot, if he had head trauma he wouldn't risk the possibility of becoming brain-dead. Sure he took some scary risks in his career but at the point he has NOTHING to prove so obviously it's a worked shoot.

But it's a storyline that runs deep for Mick, he's done some crazy stuff in his career so bring in a reality style storyline into this current program is a smart move, fans dig that kind of storyline, but if anyone thinks Mick has some kind of brain injury then maybe you need to stop watching wrestling because wrestling is an art but "serious" injurys are prevented pretty well, I bet Micks KOTR 98 Hell drops (yes the two of them) were well rehersed or at least tested to the point the table would break his fall perfectly without any serious kind of injury etc. Either way good storyline by TNA and for TNA to actually push WWE then this kind of storyline is the kind that will help them,

 

[Prestige]

Realistically speaking it's a worked shoot, if he had head trauma he wouldn't risk the possibility of becoming brain-dead. Sure he took some scary risks in his career but at the point he has NOTHING to prove so obviously it's a worked shoot.

But it's a storyline that runs deep for Mick, he's done some crazy stuff in his career so bring in a reality style storyline into this current program is a smart move, fans dig that kind of storyline, but if anyone thinks Mick has some kind of brain injury then maybe you need to stop watching wrestling because wrestling is an art but "serious" injurys are prevented pretty well, I bet Micks KOTR 98 Hell drops (yes the two of them) were well rehersed or at least tested to the point the table would break his fall perfectly without any serious kind of injury etc. Either way good storyline by TNA and for TNA to actually push WWE then this kind of storyline is the kind that will help them,

Youre kidding me right? There are at least 3 people in this thread who are either 15 or under, or really have no idea about what wrestling is, including the OP. Foley broke his ribs, dislocated his shoulder, broke his jaw, messed up his knee, lost a tooth, got a concussion, and was knocked out in that match. The fact that you feel wrestling can be so staged as to make falls like that safe makes me wonder why youre on these boards.

And to bragg, you took this a million miles too far. So, you assume people were played with Hogans surgery, watched a youtube video, watched Foley on TSN and decided hes probably bullshitting? Hmm, well Hogans surgery was real and documented, I dont know where you think everyone was fooled except they suggested he would miss BFG, which I didnt realize anyone bought anyway. Secondly, you just said you didnt really know much about Foleys career, and you obviously didnt research it, so what are you doing making a thread like this? That kind of stuff really annoys me, obviously youre just shitting on the product. Lastly, to say that because they want to be more shoot style makes you suggest theyre going to try to lie about finances in business deals or investments, or that the real world even works to where you dont have to produce paperwork and multimillion dollar deals are based on a handshake, makes this whole debate way too far over the top, and shows how little debate there really is here.

Foley has real brain damage, its very well documented. At its basis, its called a concussion, as thats what happens when your brain hits your skull, which btw deathclutch happened in his fall off the cell. And Hogan is not the real owner of TNA, he doesnt sit in with investors and make business deals, they have a board for that. Hes called a spokesperson, and that goes to show you how well their shoots have really worked on some people. Sheesh.