First Round: Los Angeles - Yokozuna vs. Steve Austin

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

I'm sorry, I missed that part where we were discussing a match that didn't involve Stone Cold Steve Austin, one of the greatest professional wrestlers of all time and one of only two men perhaps to completely revolutionize wrestling. Instead we're discussing that he's on equal footing with a fat Samoan posing as a fat Japanese guy.

Hart beat Yoko. Austin beat Hart. Austin beats Yoko. Thats literally the entire thought process there.

 

[Papa Shango]

This is a shame. Yoko should go further in the tournament than this. He could easily squash over a dozen other guys in this tourney. Unfortunately he's up against Austin. Austin was a lot smarter than some give him credit for. Yeah, he likes to beat the crap outta people, but he wouldn't just try to engage Yoko in a brawl. Austin would just let Yoko tire himself out, and then pounce. Yoko could still pull out a victory over Austin, but it would be rather surprising. Austin wins.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

This is one of the reasons "tournaments" are ugly to me. Steve Austin doesn't get votes based on whether he deserves to win or lose. He gets votes based on how many shirts he's sold with the middle finger on them. Which is a giant indication on how this match-up is looking.

Yokozuna may have won biasedly or uncleanly, as it were, but he still won.. and he still held control over his opponents throughout his Prime. Yokozuna was a destructive force, and if it weren't for the likes of.. Supernatural powers, faulty ring ropes, and metal forearms.. Yokozuna would be considered the only, pure, true athlete from the time he was in his Prime. And no one, truly could have stopped him.

The fact is, Steve Austin was a good wrestler (never great) when he was in WCW. (before Prime) He was a great marketing machine, during his prime, but the guy barely had a decent match. It was nothing more than kicks, punches, and stunners. And against who? The Rock? Shawn Michaels? Triple H? The Undertaker?

I think the Undertaker was the toughest (by way of size and strength) opponent, Austin's ever faced. Yokozuna shared twice the power and practically triple the size, of that of the Undertaker. Austin barely escaped those matches with the few wins he had. Only one to my knowledge (Summerslam) was clean, I might add.

And how does Austin finish off his opponents? The Stunner? A jawbreaker. I see.

For what its worth, Yokozuna may not even be able to get a stunner on. (I'll need proof of him stunning someone of similar size before I'll believe it to be possible, as well.) And lets say he was.. Yokozuna was a former Sumo wrestler. (by way of his character, anyways) Sumo wrestlers are known for being able to take massive amounts of punishment, and withstanding it to continue on.

One Stunner isn't putting him down. Two may not even drop him to a knee. Three could stumble him, but I doubt it. So at the very least it'd take (in my opinion) FOUR Stunners.. simply to attempt defeating him. And Austin isn't hitting 4.. not in a row.. not throughout the match.

Yokozuna should be winning, and by a great number. Instead, he's losing.. all because he didn't figure out that the middle finger has more power in winning matches than actual power and domination.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

In a kayfabe tournament, Austin's ability to drink beer and flip the bird is null and void. He is left to his faculties - his toughness, his resilience ( a point that was made that I cannot refute), and his physical and mental stamina. I don't feel that is enough to overcome the sheer size, power, and overall physical ability of Yokozuna. To pull off a stunner, Austin has to get so close to Yoko that he risks being caught by the Belly to Belly.

But I admire your attempts.

I'm sure I'm in over my head with you, but Austin already has this thing won anyway. But for arguement's sake here we go.

I'm just going to ignore the Billy Gunn and Buff Bagwell comments because they don't apply here.

I just don't see how the size arguement helps your case for Yoko, yes he is huge so Austin can't throw him around like a ragdoll but he could do enough to beat him. The power will wear down quickly because he will ge tired if Austin is smart enough to make him work, which Austin would do. I don't see the physical ability arguement at all, him being the size he is makes what ability he does have look magnified because no one that big should be able to do those things, but a quick kick to the chin is only effective if you're Shawn Micheals(kayfabe of course). The stunner can be hit out of nowhere and almost everytime puts the opponent down for the count(kayfabe).

I'm going to give you a for instance, have you ever been in a fight with someone much larger(fatter) than you? I have and they are the easiest type of people to dispatch, they get tired easily, are slow, and are uncoordinated. I know Yoko wasn't the everyday normal fat man, he was somewhat of an athlete, but I'm not Steve Austin either, who was a pretty fit guy and looked to have enough strength to hurt someone. I would win a fight with someone much fatter than me, so why wouldn't Austin win a pro wrestling match(which is essentially a street fight with a few rules) against someone much fatter than him? It's the same principle, all you do is up the athletic level of both competitors from everyday people to professionals.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I'm sure I'm in over my head with you

Oh, unquestionably. But I will always respect anyone who makes the honest attempt. It's how you make a name for yourself.

but Austin already has this thing won anyway. But for arguement's sake here we go.

I'm ready.

I'm just going to ignore the Billy Gunn and Buff Bagwell comments because they don't apply here.

It all made sense if you think about it.

I just don't see how the size arguement helps your case for Yoko,

You don't? It's because he's a lot bigger than Austin. Seems pretty self-explanatory. "Yokozuna is bigger than Austin, so he has the size advantage." There, much clearer.

yes he is huge so Austin can't throw him around like a ragdoll but he could do enough to beat him

Sure he could. Anybody could. He wouldn't though.

The power will wear down quickly because he will ge tired if Austin is smart enough to make him work, which Austin would do

The same way Bret made Yoko work before Yoko beat him at Wrestlemania 9? The same way Luger made Yoko work before having to resort to using his bionic elbow at SummerSlam? The same way Hogan made him do before Yoko flattened him and put him out of WWF until Wrestlemania 18? The same way Undertaker made him do before Yoko locked the deadman in his own casket?

I don't know you terribly well, so I don't know if you're in to weight lifting and bodybuilding like I am or like NorCal is. But you tend to get fatigued a lot faster if you are lifting 505 lbs as opposed to 255 lbs. My point is, you are pointing the "he'll get fatigued" argument at Yokozuna - but you're not factoring in the fatigue of the guy who has to try to WRESTLE THE 505-POUNDER!?

I wrestled in High School, and as a 171-pounder, I often wrestled up as high as heavyweight. And when those fat sumbitches lay on your back, it's tiring to get out.

I don't see the physical ability arguement at all, him being the size he is makes what ability he does have look magnified because no one that big should be able to do those things,

...



So because Yokozuna is so big and technically should not be physically able to do athletic things - we're disqualifing the fact that he actually CAN!?

By that logic, we're ignoring the fact that Big Van Vader can do a sick moonsault because, well, a guy his size shouldn't be able to?

but a quick kick to the chin is only effective if you're Shawn Micheals(kayfabe of course).

Wait, wha?

So a guy with Yoko's power hits a back thrust kick under your chin - and it's not effective - because he's not Shawn Michaels?

I'm just going to leave this one alone. In the immortal words of Pete Venkman when asked if Louis Tulley should ask him any more questions, "no I think we've helped them out enough already."

The stunner can be hit out of nowhere and almost everytime puts the opponent down for the count(kayfabe).

Similar to the belly to belly suplex Yoko does when opponents get close to him.

Speaking of Austin's signature moves, you can totally throw away the Lou Thesz press. It'd be useless.

I'm going to give you a for instance, have you ever been in a fight with someone much larger(fatter) than you?

I refer to my above post. I have wrestled guys much larger than me, but I have never been in a "fight" in my life.

I have

Well you shouldn't have stolen his Twinkie you big bully.

and they are the easiest type of people to dispatch, they get tired easily, are slow, and are uncoordinated.

I was going to negate this silly statement myself, but you do it yourself in your next sentence, so I'll let you continue...

I know Yoko wasn't the everyday normal fat man, he was somewhat of an athlete,

I am sorry, but SOMEWHAT of an athlete!?

He was a 2-time WWF Champion. He was a HELL of an athlete for his size. That's like saying Shaquille O'Neal is SOMEWHAT of a basketball player.

but I'm not Steve Austin either, who was a pretty fit guy and looked to have enough strength to hurt someone.

Well of course he did. He was a terrific wrestler and athlete, no question. But the fact remains that Yoko is more than twice his size, and Austin is certainly not in the strength-category that Lex Luger, Ahmed Johnson, or El Canek are in, who are the three men noted for body slamming Yoko. Not even Hulk Hogan bodyslammed the monster.

I would win a fight with someone much fatter than me, so why wouldn't Austin win a pro wrestling match(which is essentially a street fight with a few rules) against someone much fatter than him? It's the same principle, all you do is up the athletic level of both competitors from everyday people to professionals.

Oh dear God.

So you are basing your argument on the following logic:

1. "I can beat up fat kids."
2. "Yokozuna is a fat wrestler."
3. "Thus, Austin can beat up Yokozuna."

You should try communism. I think you'll find you have a lot in common.

 

[shattered dreams]

This is one of the reasons "tournaments" are ugly to me. Steve Austin doesn't get votes based on whether he deserves to win or lose. He gets votes based on how many shirts he's sold with the middle finger on them. Which is a giant indication on how this match-up is looking.

Yokozuna may have won biasedly or uncleanly, as it were, but he still won.. and he still held control over his opponents throughout his Prime. Yokozuna was a destructive force, and if it weren't for the likes of.. Supernatural powers, faulty ring ropes, and metal forearms.. Yokozuna would be considered the only, pure, true athlete from the time he was in his Prime. And no one, truly could have stopped him.

The fact is, Steve Austin was a good wrestler (never great) when he was in WCW. (before Prime) He was a great marketing machine, during his prime, but the guy barely had a decent match. It was nothing more than kicks, punches, and stunners. And against who? The Rock? Shawn Michaels? Triple H? The Undertaker?

I think the Undertaker was the toughest (by way of size and strength) opponent, Austin's ever faced. Yokozuna shared twice the power and practically triple the size, of that of the Undertaker. Austin barely escaped those matches with the few wins he had. Only one to my knowledge (Summerslam) was clean, I might add.

And how does Austin finish off his opponents? The Stunner? A jawbreaker. I see.

For what its worth, Yokozuna may not even be able to get a stunner on. (I'll need proof of him stunning someone of similar size before I'll believe it to be possible, as well.) And lets say he was.. Yokozuna was a former Sumo wrestler. (by way of his character, anyways) Sumo wrestlers are known for being able to take massive amounts of punishment, and withstanding it to continue on.

One Stunner isn't putting him down. Two may not even drop him to a knee. Three could stumble him, but I doubt it. So at the very least it'd take (in my opinion) FOUR Stunners.. simply to attempt defeating him. And Austin isn't hitting 4.. not in a row.. not throughout the match.

Yokozuna should be winning, and by a great number. Instead, he's losing.. all because he didn't figure out that the middle finger has more power in winning matches than actual power and domination.

Marketing has determined who won professional wrestling matches for decades. Why should this tournament be any different? You really think any promoter is going to book Yokozuna over Austin when Austin was in his prime? If it is about shoot fights why do you support edge so much?

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Austin, without a doubt. I give Yoko credit where credit is due, he was dominant (and had Fuji). But there is no way in hell I am voting for Yoko over Austin. Not only is Austin my favorite superstar of all time, he is one of the three biggest names in the history of the business.

Yoko main event two wrestlemanias, which is amazing. He also faced Bret Hart in those matches, which makes it even better. But Austin was superior in every way. Mic wise, it isn't even a contest, because Yoko didn't talk. Austin was a solid in ring competitor, and a great brawler. He had great intensity, and was the far superior athlete (obviously). Yoko was scary...when I was ten or twelve years old. Now I just don't care. Austin for sure.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Marketing has determined who won professional wrestling matches for decades. Why should this tournament be any different? You really think any promoter is going to book Yokozuna over Austin when Austin was in his prime? If it is about shoot fights why do you support edge so much?

Because it's a kayfabe tournament ya herb.

Let me ask you a question - if we approached the tournament in terms of being a booking agent and making the decisions based on marketing and stuff like that, then what the hell would be the point of having the tournament have anymore than just Hogan, Austin, Goldberg, and Cena in it anyway? Why not just have the same four guys duke it out every year to determine the best, because those are the four guys considered to be ahead of everyone else in booking and being "over."

You feel free to suck the creativity out of this and ruin the idea behind the tournament. Go ahead. I'll watch.

Austin, without a doubt. I give Yoko credit where credit is due, he was dominant (and had Fuji). But there is no way in hell I am voting for Yoko over Austin. Not only is Austin my favorite superstar of all time, he is one of the three biggest names in the history of the business. Austin hands down.

Another Austin mark voting out of fanship as opposed to logic. Terrific.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Because it's a kayfabe tournament ya herb.

Let me ask you a question - if we approached the tournament in terms of being a booking agent and making the decisions based on marketing and stuff like that, then what the hell would be the point of having the tournament have anymore than just Hogan, Austin, Goldberg, and Cena in it anyway? Why not just have the same four guys duke it out every year to determine the best, because those are the four guys considered to be ahead of everyone else in booking and being "over."

You feel free to suck the creativity out of this and ruin the idea behind the tournament. Go ahead. I'll watch.



Another Austin mark voting out of fanship as opposed to logic. Terrific.

Actually, I believe my choice was quite logical. Steve Austin slayed quite a few giants in his time, and I don't think it would be any different with Yoko. At Summerslam 96, the free for all, whatever, Yoko lost to Austin because the freakin rope broke. Austin took advantage, and got the pinfall (in less than 2 minutes). Austin was an opportunist. Do I see him dropping 600 lbs across his shoulder, taking Yoko out with some huge Stunner? No. But Austin would find a way to win.

Yes, I am an Austin mark, have been since early 1992. So in the first round of this tournament, there is no way I want him to lose out to Yokozuna. I liked Yoko, kind of, but Austins accomplishments should be enough to get him out of the first round, no doubt about it. I could say the same for Yoko... if he weren't facing Steve Austin.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Actually, I believe my choice was quite logical. Steve Austin slayed quite a few giants in his time, and I don't think it would be any different with Yoko. At Summerslam 96, the free for all, whatever, Yoko lost to Austin because the freakin rope broke. Austin took advantage, and got the pinfall (in less than 2 minutes). Austin was an opportunist. Do I see him dropping 600 lbs across his shoulder, taking Yoko out with some huge Stunner? No. But Austin would find a way to win.

Again, using that Free for All from 96 is horrible and in no way, shape or form how anyone using their right mind should view Yokozuna. The man was a flipping World Heavyweight Champion. He's pinned Hulk Hogan. Has Steve Austin done that? No.

Oh, but foul play was used. He cheated. Does no one understand thats what heels do?! So, a camera was used.. for stupidity purposes.. are you saying camera's aren't going to be allowed at ringside for this match?

Regardless of that, the fact is Steve Austin has not beaten anyone the size, and power of Yokozuna.

You said yourself, Austin can't hit a stunner. An Austin mark - said himself - he doesn't think Austin could/would hit a stunner.

Yes, I am an Austin mark, have been since early 1992. So in the first round of this tournament, there is no way I want him to lose out to Yokozuna. I liked Yoko, kind of, but Austins accomplishments should be enough to get him out of the first round, no doubt about it. I could say the same for Yoko... if he weren't facing Steve Austin.

Again, I won't argue your voting because Austin's your favorite. Its why I voted for Edge. Why Irish likely voted for Vader. Because no one is going to tell us otherwise.

However no one thats an Austin fan, has said one word on why Austin should win.. beyond "because he's Austin and drinks beers, lawlz". Its sickening.

 

[shattered dreams]

So I suppose you two get to set "what matters" and anyone who disagrees is simply wrong. You get to vote for the wrestlers you are fans of but when others do it, it is sickening. The tournament is not kayfabe only and never has been. You can pretend that makes it boring or something but I think it is much better than using criteria such as this guy weighed a lot he should win. Now that would be a boring tournament.

So when Yokozuna wins vs someone past their prime in an unclean finish that means everything (hogan) while when Austin beats Yokozuna when he is past his prime in under two minutes it is irrelevant? Even years after he was done with wrestling stone cold came out in troops special and took out cena with one stunner and knocked the frickin big show out cold with back to back stunners. The only way he would not be able to hit the move on Yokozuna is if Yokozuna was too limited in the ring to take it, which is hardly a reason to vote for yokozuna.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

So I suppose you two get to set "what matters" and anyone who disagrees is simply wrong.

Goes with the territory of running the forums.

I freely say each poster is welcome to set their own criteria. But when that criteria makes, in my opinion, no sense and defeats the point of the tournament, be prepared to be asked to defend yourself.

You get to vote for the wrestlers you are fans of but when others do it, it is sickening.

Nope. I was a MUCH bigger Austin fan than a Yokozuna fan. Bet you didn't know that.

What's sickening for me is when people blindly vote for a name because they are a fan without taking into account the match logic. This isn't a "favorite" wrestler tournament, after all.

The tournament is not kayfabe only and never has been.

Well Mr. "I arrived January 2010," you sure showed me what-for. Thank YOU for educating ME on the history of the forums.

You can pretend that makes it boring or something but I think it is much better than using criteria such as this guy weighed a lot he should win. Now that would be a boring tournament.

You know damn well my argument was FAR deeper than that, you just seem to lack the ability or desire to refute my argument with anything more concrete than baseless whining.

So when Yokozuna wins vs someone past their prime in an unclean finish that means everything (hogan) while when Austin beats Yokozuna when he is past his prime in under two minutes it is irrelevant?

Yokozuna's win over Hogan was a part of Yoko's "body of work" in his prime. That prime also included a win over Bret Hart, was was damn sure not past his prime. And to say Hogan was "past" his prime is just stupid, considering the years Hogan had in WCW from 1994-2000.

Even years after he was done with wrestling stone cold came out in troops special and took out cena with one stunner and knocked the frickin big show out cold with back to back stunners

I am sorry, but exactly what in the hell does this have to do with anything?

The only way he would not be able to hit the move on Yokozuna is if Yokozuna was too limited in the ring to take it, which is hardly a reason to vote for yokozuna.

I maintain that you are approaching this tournament from a "WWE Booking Team" perspective, which is silly. If you'd rather be a promoter than a fan, that's your business, but I'll make it a point to refute you wherever possible, and I seriously doubt you're up to the task. Maybe you'll prove me wrong.

 

[Straight Edge Loyalist]

Yokozuna was a BEAST in the early 90s with the WWF and I consider him to be pretty underrated. I don't consider him to be a terrible champion either. The dude, again, was a beast, and he was pretty damn good in the ring when he was at the 505-550 mark. And while he was champion, he was pretty damn over and actually got crowd reaction, unlike other recent champs who will remain unnamed. Plus he defeated some pretty damn legit wrestlers in his prime.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut


I had to vote for The Rattlesnake. Dude was absolutely electrifying in the ring and could work against any wrestler at any style of match; and that's where Austin gets the edge.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Again, using that Free for All from 96 is horrible and in no way, shape or form how anyone using their right mind should view Yokozuna. The man was a flipping World Heavyweight Champion. He's pinned Hulk Hogan. Has Steve Austin done that? No.

Oh, but foul play was used. He cheated. Does no one understand thats what heels do?! So, a camera was used.. for stupidity purposes.. are you saying camera's aren't going to be allowed at ringside for this match?

Regardless of that, the fact is Steve Austin has not beaten anyone the size, and power of Yokozuna.

You said yourself, Austin can't hit a stunner. An Austin mark - said himself - he doesn't think Austin could/would hit a stunner.



Again, I won't argue your voting because Austin's your favorite. Its why I voted for Edge. Why Irish likely voted for Vader. Because no one is going to tell us otherwise.

However no one thats an Austin fan, has said one word on why Austin should win.. beyond "because he's Austin and drinks beers, lawlz". Its sickening.

You're right, Austin never pinned Hogan..because the match never happened. Yoko pinned Hogan at KOTR '93 because he cheated. Do I have a problem with that? Absolutely not. As you pointed out, that's what heels do. But let's not forget that Austin wasn't some squeaky-clean face character. The man would do anything to win, same as Yoko. He didn't follow rules, he didn't listen to reason. So when it comes down to an Austin/Yokozuna in-ring confrontation, you are, in some ways, getting a heel vs. heel match. Austin was brutal, and he didn't wrestle like a babyface, even though that was the type of reaction he got from the crowd.

Austin may have never beaten someone as fat as Yokozuna, but he did beat the Big Show on Raw, during the lead up to Wrestlemania XV. How did Austin win that match? He beat the Big Show senseless with a chair, and then nailed a Stunner. So not only did Austin beat someone of similiar size and strength, but he did so by breaking the rules. He did what it took to win that match. That's what he always did. The guy played a bad ass who was willing to take it further than his opponent, and I think him going up against Yokozuna would be no different.

I'm not going to lie and say I am keeping it kayfabe. I'm not. Austin is one of the two or three biggest/greatest superstars in the history of professional wrestling. And as much as I liked/respect Yokozuna, his career didn't add up to Steve Austins. This is a first round match, and I'm sorry, but I just don't see Austin losing in the first round of this, or any other tournament of this magnitude, with this many stars. Under normal circumstances, against a lesser opponent, I would't see Yoko losing in the first round either. But he drew Steve Austin. If that sickens you, my apologies.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

You're right, Austin never pinned Hogan..because the match never happened. Yoko pinned Hogan at KOTR '93 because he cheated. Do I have a problem with that? Absolutely not. As you pointed out, that's what heels do. But let's not forget that Austin wasn't some squeaky-clean face character. The man would do anything to win, same as Yoko. He didn't follow rules, he didn't listen to reason. So when it comes down to an Austin/Yokozuna in-ring confrontation, you are, in some ways, getting a heel vs. heel match. Austin was brutal, and he didn't wrestle like a babyface, even though that was the type of reaction he got from the crowd.

Austin may have never beaten someone as fat as Yokozuna, but he did beat the Big Show on Raw, during the lead up to Wrestlemania XV. How did Austin win that match? He beat the Big Show senseless with a chair, and then nailed a Stunner. So not only did Austin beat someone of similiar size and strength, but he did so by breaking the rules. He did what it took to win that match. That's what he always did. The guy played a bad ass who was willing to take it further than his opponent, and I think him going up against Yokozuna would be no different.

I'm not going to lie and say I am keeping it kayfabe. I'm not. Austin is one of the two or three biggest/greatest superstars in the history of professional wrestling. And as much as I liked/respect Yokozuna, his career didn't add up to Steve Austins. This is a first round match, and I'm sorry, but I just don't see Austin losing in the first round of this, or any other tournament of this magnitude, with this many stars. Under normal circumstances, against a lesser opponent, I would't see Yoko losing in the first round either. But he drew Steve Austin. If that sickens you, my apologies.

Green Rep for this. THIS is a damn fine post.

I don't agree with you - probably never will - but damn if you haven't shown a massive turnaround from "I voted Austin 'cause I am a fan" to a tremendous use of logic.

I'll never blame someone for being wrong as long as they try.

Anyway, it's worth pointing out that Austin was a blatant rule breaker and excelled in no-DQ matches in an era where violence was a norm. Yokozuna was a sneaky heel with an even sneakier manager. The tournament matches are NOT a no-dq affair. If Austin grabs a chair, in most cases, he's toast in the tournament.

Obviously the voting indicates a level of futility. Austin is winning this match, though I maintain for the wrong reasons. The fact that Yokozuna's support has increased and Austin's support has slowed a tad in the last 2 days does show me that people are reading some of the logical posts and making the right choice. Maybe that helps Yokozuna in next year's tournament.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

You're right, Austin never pinned Hogan..because the match never happened. Yoko pinned Hogan at KOTR '93 because he cheated. Do I have a problem with that? Absolutely not. As you pointed out, that's what heels do. But let's not forget that Austin wasn't some squeaky-clean face character. The man would do anything to win, same as Yoko. He didn't follow rules, he didn't listen to reason. So when it comes down to an Austin/Yokozuna in-ring confrontation, you are, in some ways, getting a heel vs. heel match. Austin was brutal, and he didn't wrestle like a babyface, even though that was the type of reaction he got from the crowd.

Austin may have never beaten someone as fat as Yokozuna, but he did beat the Big Show on Raw, during the lead up to Wrestlemania XV. How did Austin win that match? He beat the Big Show senseless with a chair, and then nailed a Stunner. So not only did Austin beat someone of similiar size and strength, but he did so by breaking the rules. He did what it took to win that match. That's what he always did. The guy played a bad ass who was willing to take it further than his opponent, and I think him going up against Yokozuna would be no different.

I'm not going to lie and say I am keeping it kayfabe. I'm not. Austin is one of the two or three biggest/greatest superstars in the history of professional wrestling. And as much as I liked/respect Yokozuna, his career didn't add up to Steve Austins. This is a first round match, and I'm sorry, but I just don't see Austin losing in the first round of this, or any other tournament of this magnitude, with this many stars. Under normal circumstances, against a lesser opponent, I would't see Yoko losing in the first round either. But he drew Steve Austin. If that sickens you, my apologies.

Some of Yokozuna's victories that have come by way of cheating, have been by results of things he can do without being caught. Now, I'm not gonna say he can do it and Austin can't. Austin can use several low tactics.

However, your logic of using his victory over the Big Show by blasting him with a chair and knocking out a Stunner is likely not going to get him anywhere but an early shower. The fact is, it TOOK a weapon (chair) to weaken a guy so much larger than Austin - in order for Austin to find a way to win. That won't happen here, short of an official being knocked out for a big enough period of time that Austin can find a way to cheat with a chair. And on that note, who's to say Yokozuna wouldn't have the same idea in mind?

The reason it sickens me, in any way, is because Austin isn't getting the majority of those votes because he deserves them through actual talent. Its because he was a huge hit due to going against Authority. Flipping people off. Attacking management. Its been noted several times, he does what the world wishes they could. But that doesn't make him the best. It just makes him entertaining.

Yokozuna earned respect and his place in Wrestling because he showed the world the talent he had.. IN the ring. Not outside of it. Now, lets go to the Summerslam 96 match for a quick reference..

[youtube]yRb1ed4Sa0A[/youtube]

Steve Austin was just coming into his Prime. But he used the same punches and brawling tactic to open this match - as he used throughout his prime. I doubt his power would've increased, just because he got popular. Yokozuna was NOT phased. Infact, if you look it took a mere Samoan Drop, and a leg drop.. and had the ropes not broke - Austin was finished off, with a mere two moves from Yokozuna.

Now, Austin capitalized on a huge opening and I'll give him all the credit in the world. Its that type of fluke event that would HAVE to happen, in order for Austin to win. (in my opinion) Yokozuna is too big, too powerful, and simply put - too much.. for Austin to win, without using every dirty tactic (including chairs) in the book.

To assume Austin could get by THAT MUCH with using cheating tactics, and having fluke moments similar to the ropes breaking.. is hoping against hope.

 

[shattered dreams]

Goes with the territory of running the forums.

I freely say each poster is welcome to set their own criteria. But when that criteria makes, in my opinion, no sense and defeats the point of the tournament, be prepared to be asked to defend yourself.

Nope. I was a MUCH bigger Austin fan than a Yokozuna fan. Bet you didn't know that.

What's sickening for me is when people blindly vote for a name because they are a fan without taking into account the match logic. This isn't a "favorite" wrestler tournament, after all.

Well Mr. "I arrived January 2010," you sure showed me what-for. Thank YOU for educating ME on the history of the forums.

You know damn well my argument was FAR deeper than that, you just seem to lack the ability or desire to refute my argument with anything more concrete than baseless whining.

Yokozuna's win over Hogan was a part of Yoko's "body of work" in his prime. That prime also included a win over Bret Hart, was was damn sure not past his prime. And to say Hogan was "past" his prime is just stupid, considering the years Hogan had in WCW from 1994-2000.

I am sorry, but exactly what in the hell does this have to do with anything?

I maintain that you are approaching this tournament from a "WWE Booking Team" perspective, which is silly. If you'd rather be a promoter than a fan, that's your business, but I'll make it a point to refute you wherever possible, and I seriously doubt you're up to the task. Maybe you'll prove me wrong.

I saw this beauty and figured I should at least respond to it. It is probably worth pointing out that I had a much bigger problem with the way onebigwill was "debating" than you. However, your tactics now that you posted this leave something to be desired.

My problem is that you are flat out lying. You keep saying the tournament is not this, it is that and all this crap this is YOUR OPINION of what it should be. It is fine to present your opinion but to present it as fact while playing up your position here seems an abuse IMO. Then later you backtrack and say you support people choosing how they want but you will debate them on it.

As far as how should we judge who wins these matches I would enjoy discussing your opinion of it. The thread where someone started a plea to keep it kayfabe might be a better place but I think ruling out a variety of plausible methods in favor of only one hurts the tournament, whether the one is just booking or just kayfabe. You can call it just booking but there is often a variety of reasons a wrestler was booked a certain way. I never advocated only looking at how marketable etc someone was. What I do think would ideally happen is that you look at several different factors and pick the better all-around performer. Ultimately the winner of the whole tournament would have strong marks in all areas one might think of as important.

What I did not like about how you defended Yokozuna later in the thread was trivializing the argument of the other side. Even in kayfabe only there is nothing obvious about Yokozuna winning this match. Can you make an argument for it? Absolutely. Is it obvious right and are all austin fans voting because of middle fingers and beer? Hell no. That is why I trivialized your argument to his weight. I do not see how you can even claim to be making a comparison because you rarely mention anything about Austin as a wrestler. You get all panties in a bunch for the perceived Austin fanboy voting but most of the yokozuna post look like: Yokozuna had a nice run in his prime beating some big names, austin did not face someone this big, stop voting austin because he drinks beer. Aren't you then as bad as the marks you are angry at? You are doing exactly what you dislike in talking about Austin's actions instead of his in-ring accomplishments.

So I felt that who would win in kayfabe in their primes was possibly at least debatable but every other factor except scale breaking ability was on Austin's side. Exercising my right to take a broader view of the situation that made it an easy Austin vote.

(oh yeah saying someone is stupid for thinking hogan's prime is not NWO is asinine IMO, considering hulkamania; is this the "right" way to use a halfinsult followed by something obvious to "prove" how superior a debater one is?)

The best part about the tournament is that if you do really respect austin, like I did already know from reading the threads here, is now we get to be on the same side, possibly, for different reasons.

 

[Muffin Top Merkley]

Ropes breaking or not, a win is a win and that's all you need to advance in this tournament.

Yoko had Mr. Fuji in his corner, which is a great advantage for the heel. However since this in a standard match, Mr. Fuji couldn’t do anything aside from distract Austin or the referee without costing Yoko the match.

Austin has had many matches where there was a distraction outside the ring and he was able to eliminate the distraction; Mr. Fuji wouldn’t be an exception to this rule as Austin would have Fuji running scared. If anything, I see Fuji being the reasoning for Yoko losing this match either due to causing a disqualification or giving Austin the opening to connect with the stunner which was always hit out of nowhere.