Finish Them! (Series 2)

[TheOneBigWill]

The subject: Wrestling's Best Finishing Moves. Each week I’m going to match-up two random Finishing moves against one another. The objective in this is to discuss and determine which move is better used as a Finishing maneuver in Professional Wrestling.

I’ll post polls that’ll remain open for 1 week. After each week, the winning Finishing maneuver, voted on by you the members, will move on to face another randomly selected Finisher. There is no set deadline on when this overall objective will end. That’s up to the posters. When the thread series dies out, then so will the project.

The Objective: (beyond discussion, that is) To discover which moves this forum's members find to be the best through selective criteria. That criteria? You can use these in scales of 1-5, 1-10, however you like.

1. Effectiveness. (When its used, will it keep the opponent down for the end?)

2. Standout/Flashiness. (Can it shock and awe, amaze, the audience? If so, how much?)

3. Uniqueness. (How unreal, yet realistic, can you get?)

4. Surprising: (Can this move be used out of more than one position? Can it be hit anywhere, at anytime, to finish an opponent off? example: Diamond Cutter)

Now then, the above criteria is what I’d appreciate everyone to use when determining their vote/winner. However, I obviously can’t force or stop anyone from merely voting through pure favorite either. The fun will come through discussion, which I hope leads to debates among you all, on why Finisher ‘A’ is better than Finisher ‘B’.

SO, by a score of 17-10 the Crippler Crossface has advanced to the 2nd week. The following poll will remain open for 1 week, and close on May 6th.

Here is its next opponent..

Crippler Crossface

VS.

DDT

As always, this thread involves explaining your decision and the spam rules should be enforced here. So make sure to explain your opinions. Thank You.

 

[Ferbian]

1. Effectiveness. (When its used, will it keep the opponent down for the end?)

Crippler Crossface: Definitely effective, it has had numerous of people tapping out to this hold, and as I said in previous thread with this hold in it, Benoit bended and stretched you like there was no tomorrow when he used that hold. 4/5

DDT: effective, but nothing big, it used to be a finisher, now it's just a regular move that doesn't keep anybody but Mark Henry down anymore. 2/5

2. Standout/Flashiness. (Can it shock and awe, amaze, the audience? If so, how much?)

Crippler Crossface: no, it doesn't really shock anybody, it stands out for being a rarely used submission hold, but it doesn't show off any flashiness what so ever. 3/5

DDT: it's flashy when it has a variation to it, like Rey Mysterio, Christian or John Morrison's way of doing it, but that's about it, it's nothing "wow" but due to it's variations it gets a better score in my eyes, but it looses a bit on stand out 3/5

3. Uniqueness. (How unreal, yet realistic, can you get?)

Crippler Crossface: It's very realistic, as I said earlier, Benoit bended and stretched you like there was no tomorrow, it's a very effective move and could very well snap something in your body if applied in a more legitimate way. 5/5

DDT: you get your head slammed to the mat, how realistic does it need to get? sure you have some kind of space between you and the mat due to the opponent also landing on the mat, but I think if the move is made properly, you could use it very much in a legitimate fight and truly hurt someone. 4/5

4. Surprising: (Can this move be used out of more than one position? Can it be hit anywhere, at anytime, to finish an opponent off? example: Diamond Cutter)

Crippler Crossface: partial surprising, he could slap it on pretty effectively and quick, like the match against Orlando Jordan where he had him tapping out in less than 30 seconds, it's not really a surprising move although, but it has the potential to be slapped on pretty easily. 3/5

DDT: this one certainly has the upper hand, seeing the different variations that it can be slapped on with, from the top rope (tornado DDT) the ropes (rope-hung DDT) the weird thing Morrison and Rey Mysterio does etc. it can be applied anywhere 5/5

Crippler Crossface: 15

DDT: 14

 

[Daniel]

Effectiveness
Crippler Crossface - One of the more brutal submission holds. Plus, the size of Benoit's arms definitely added to it.
DDT - Does look effective. A head being rammed into the ground. However it's frequent use as a regular move makes the move look more devestating. Kind of depends on the variation use. Drew McIntyre's double underhook DDT looks really nasty.

Crossface takes this round.

Flashiness
Crippler Crossface - Simple submission. There isn't much standout about it. However, it did get a big pop when used.
DDT - Again, it's frequent use is it's downfall. Previously, a DDT would make you sit up and take notice. However, nowadays unless it is a finisher or a special variation (lucha, elevated), I wouldn't really care.

DDT wins because of the many variations that can be used.

Uniqueness
Crippler Crossface - Not been used regulary by someone since Benoit's death. So if a wrestler pulled it out as a finisher, it would be very unique. An STF is not unlike it though. Looks very realistic and could probably be pulled out in a real fight.
DDT - Very realistic and the connection between the head and mat looks very real too. I don't think it could be used legitamately as I think there would be quite a bit of fight back whilst holding someone's head.

Crippler Crossface is more unique.

Suprising
Crippler Crossface - Providing the opponent was down it could be locked in at any point in the match.
DDT - The many variations make it more suprising than the Crossface. For example, Randy Orton's rope-hung DDT always catches me by surprise.

DDT wins this making it 2-2. It's very close, so i'll use this reasoning. If a new wrestler arrived on the scene, which finisher would I like to see them use? Therefore my pick is the Crippler Crossface. It looks good, it's unique and its damn effective.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Effectiveness

Crossface Don't really know what i can add to my last point. Benoit won about 85% of his matches with it, yet no one else except Tommy Dreamer who had to use Barbed Wire to make it more effective. Then again since it's effectiveness is nowhere near as watered down as a DDT, i'd say it's going to take this round.

DDT If we're talking strictly front facelock, fall back then this move isn't effective at all. If it's some variation like a Tornado DDT or Impaler DDT or Double Arm DDT then sometimes it gets the job done, but usually only if you're a mid-card kinda player. I'm struggling to think of anyone who was in the Main Event in WWE, who's finisher was a DDT in the last 12 years. I don't think i've ever witnessed a World Title change hands following a DDT unless it was on a DVD of classic matches.

So, yeah definitely Crossface wins. I mean come on, how many times did Cody Rhodes win with a DDT? Like 3 times in 3 years?

Standout/Flashiness

Crossface Only one guy ever did the move frequently and he rarely just walked up to a guy on his stomach and applied the hold. More often than not his opponent would be running at him or be holding him in some way that he could simply grab the guy's arm and BANG! Crossface applied. So it was always one of those surprise counters, but you knew in all likelihood that that was how Benoit would lock the hold in, via some kind of counter manouvre.

DDT It all depends on what variation you use and how the opponent takes the move. Watch the Hardcore Title match at Invasion and watch RVD spike up right and bounce as his head hits the chair. THAT'S a flashy DDT. Kick to the gut and in one swift motion Van Dam gets planted by Jeff Hardy. Then again some guys go for a DDT and they do it so slowly that fans can't tell that that's what they had in mind.

"Oooo! Oooooo! Is he gonna do a neck breaker? Or, or, a suplex? Oh, it was a DDT. Not a great one either."

Would I say that Foley's Double Arm DDT or Rhodes' DDT was flashy? No. Do I mark out when someone does an Impaler? Yes i do. Was Rey hitting the springboard moonsault DDT on Punk at WM flashy? Hell yeah, that's the first time i've ever see anyone attempt that! So like i say, it depends on what variation. But purely because under the massive umbrella that the term 'DDT' encompasses, it has the potential in the world to be flashy.....

DDT wins this round for me.

Uniqueness/Realism

Crossface One man's signature submission move that most people are very reluctant to do considering the results of the last time that man used it. And i think that's all i need to say in terms of its realism as well.

DDT Some DDTs have been beautiful to behold. I've seen many a DDT where i found myself wondering how certain wrestlers are still able move. However, in reality people don't thrown their own legs out from underneath them if you pull back on a headlock, and if prepared they can probably prevent you from forcing their heads to make contact with the ground, so unless you're prepared to throw your full weight backwards with all your strength, onto whatever surface your standing on, knowing that whoever you're beating on's weight is going to come crashing down with their shoulder directly in your gut........ i doubt you could call a DDT a realistic finishing move.

Crossface wins

Surprising

Crossface As i said, most of the time it'd be applied following a counter, and if Benoit was going to win with it, obviously it's going to be after you've already watched 15 odd minutes of wrestling, so while you don't know how or when exactly it'll come, but you can somewhat pre-empt it.

Otherwise it's 100% surprising because you're surprised someone's got the balls to do it in this Post-Benoit world.

DDT Most DDT's involve some kind of set up before impact. There's usually that split second where the kick to the mid-section is followed by the facelock or the arms being hooked, and you essentially know what's coming. The only surprise is whether the other guy counters or actually stays down for three.

So neither are particularly surprising, but DDT is far less surprising unless someone does it in one fluid motion.

So Crossface again.

And again my vote goes to The Crippler Crossface as the better finishing move.

And to be honest, i don't think the outcome is ever going to change unless one of the next rounds features a finishing move that's used frequently by a big name to get wins, because the first two have been "The hold only ever used by 1 guy to win" vs "a move that countless guys have used and rarely won"

I don't mean that in a nasty way Will, it's just what's come to mind during both rounds so far. Do the thread how you want of course, i just see a LOT of 'Crossface wins' posts from The Mark Of Zur En Arrh until the day it's up against something like the Stunner or the Olympic/Angle Slam.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't think I'll go into quite as much detail with this one as I did for the Crippler Crossface/Flying Elbow Drop comparisson. The reason is that I think everything I said there can be applied almost exactly the same here.

Benoit's Crippler Crossface was highly effective and he won most of his matches with it. The DDT is a move that, with the exception of a small number of wrestlers, has been pretty much hit and miss. I'd say that Jake The Snake Roberts is among the most famous and possibly best users of the DDT and, quite frankly, never won squat with it.

As far as which stands out the most, I've got to go with the Crossface once more. Before Benoit, I'd never seen it used before. The DDT is something that, over the years, has become more and more common place, as a set up move mostly.

As far as which is more unique, I've still got to go with the Crossface. I know it's little more than a modified chinlock, but it looks different enough to stand out. Besides, when you had Benoit's facial expression and when he was pulling back on the guy's neck, it looked brutal. The DDT...well, as I said in the above paragraph, it's become something that's quite common place. Doesn't take any particular skill to use it effectively at all.

When it comes to surprising, I'd call it pretty even. Both are moves that can be locked on in a number of different positions and as counters to a lot of other moves.

Overall, however, the edge goes to the Crossface in my view.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Here we go again. You know I really do enjoy these thread BigWill. Enough room for debate in all the right places.


The Objective: (beyond discussion, that is) To discover which moves this forum's members find to be the best through selective criteria. That criteria? You can use these in scales of 1-5, 1-10, however you like.

1. Effectiveness. (When its used, will it keep the opponent down for the end?)

Crippler Crossface: 8/10
DDT: 5/10

Unless you have guys like Jake "The Snake" Roberts , Sting, or Raven using this potent move, odds are your opponent is going to shake it off as if it weren't even a finisher. Will it keep them down? For a limited time, but if you aren't one of the respective wrestlers mentioned, odds are it is an afterthought move like a leg drop or a spinebuster (moves that have been finishers but have been downgraded over the years).

Crossface, on the other hand, is perhaps one of the most lethal submission moves of all time. You're locked in, and unless you weasel out of the ring, overpower your opponent, or get to the ropes, then you are tapping.

Round One goes to Crossface; Reason- DDT, just like the Elbow Drop, has became watered down.



2. Standout/Flashiness. (Can it shock and awe, amaze, the audience? If so, how much?)

Crippler Crossface: 7/10
DDT: 4/10

Crossface, if applied now, would get a pretty good reaction; not just from the crowd, but also the online wrestling community. Someone would start a thread here and say how ex. Evan Bourne did a Crossface! Many fans who have watched guys like Chris Benoit execute the move will have fond memories and "mark" out I am sure. The move will stand out guaranteed.


Sadly, when was the last time a DDT really amazed the fans? It may get a pop from guys like Orton (who will DDT 2 guys at once) or get positive feedback used in a luchador way (Rey Mysterio) but other than that everyone can do it and everyone eventually does one, taking away the flavor.

Round Two is Crossface; Reason- Crowd pops will be heard and this website will be swimming with posts if that move hits. I consider that amazing the audience quite a bit.


3. Uniqueness. (How unreal, yet realistic, can you get?)

Crippler Crossface: 6/10
DDT:8/10

Let's look how these moves are packaged for the audience:

Crossface: Chinlock that appears to be fucking up your spine and perhaps neck. Is unique on the grounds a rare few even attempt this move.

DDT: Take your opponent and make them go HEAD FIRST into the mat, and depending on how you do it FACE FIRST. Realism kicks hard hear.

DDT in my mind appears to be one of those fighting moves when you are in a brawl you wind up doing to the guy even if it's not intentional. So there's the realism of putting the guy on his head. Possibly snapping his neck.

Crossface, on the other hand, isn't at all a realistic fighting move. Does it look like it's snapping the opponent's neck? Sorta, but a newbie fan will look at a DDT and go "Oh My God!!! He just landed on his head!!" before they go "Oh My God!!! That must be hurting his back!!"

It was a shootout with Unique vs. Realism. I'm going with realism because that's what they crowd expects: something realistic.

Point for DDT.

4. Surprising: (Can this move be used out of more than one position? Can it be hit anywhere, at anytime, to finish an opponent off? example: Diamond Cutter)

Crippler Crossface: 9/10
DDT: 10/10

Crossface, as I have said previously, is a superior submission move. It honestly can be hit in practically any scenario the wrestler deems fit. They can even slap it on if your ass is already down on the mat.

However, DDT can be used backwards and frontwards. If you use a Crossface backwards, it will most likely get the ref to start calling the pin since your back is pressed against the mat. OR it will look like you are holding the guy's face to yours while his hand looks like..

Let's just say it wouldn't look effective and DDT gets this one as well.




I have always been a fan of the DDT (Big Raven fan as anyone can guess) but the move pales in comparison still to the Crippler's Crossface.