stan the psycho man
New Member
i think the most racist thing ive seen has to be the strap match with jtg and shad 2 black guys strapped together enough said
File Under "R" For Racism.
- Thread starter Tenta
- Start date
Judah's Lion
the Icon
there are a ton of examples of this, many of which have already been mentioned. of those, some of the easiest to recall are the Japanese (Kai en Tai and Tajiri most specifically), the blacks (Faarooq, Kamala, Cryme Tyme, Samba Simba), Irish (Piper, Finley, Sheamus), English (Regal, Bulldog), Canadian (Hart Foundation), Red Neck (Jimmy Wang Yang, Stone Cold, Bob Holly, Jamie Noble), etc. there are too many to mention.
my favorite, though, is the Berzerker. maybe it's just because i'm Scandinavian, but the idea of a Viking automatically being a big dumb brute was pretty stereotypical.
the Highlanders were also made to be idiots. a lot of these gimmicks that are "racist" are just huge exaggerations and lump all people of the race or culture into the stereotype which is the danger.
hopefully we all remember that this is a gimmick and meant to be entertainment. i feel okay about that, as long as i'm able to remain educated about the real dangers of real racism and as long as everyone gets an equal opportunity to laugh at themselves in the stereotypes portrayed.
my favorite, though, is the Berzerker. maybe it's just because i'm Scandinavian, but the idea of a Viking automatically being a big dumb brute was pretty stereotypical.
the Highlanders were also made to be idiots. a lot of these gimmicks that are "racist" are just huge exaggerations and lump all people of the race or culture into the stereotype which is the danger.
hopefully we all remember that this is a gimmick and meant to be entertainment. i feel okay about that, as long as i'm able to remain educated about the real dangers of real racism and as long as everyone gets an equal opportunity to laugh at themselves in the stereotypes portrayed.
WCWMondayNitroOnYT
Pre-Show Stalwart
So now two guys that happen to be black can't have strap matches against each other? What other type of matches can't a certain race have against each other? That wasn't racist in the slightest. It was a tag team that broke up and had such ill will against each other that they needed to settle it in a strap match. You didn't need to play the race card on that one. There are plenty of legit examples of racism in wrestling but this isn't one of them.
I think there should be something mentioned for what you said, as admittedly, at times, it may get lost. Now then, the fact that people acknowledge that it is a racist thing should be a point to start with. If there aren't evil intentions, then I'm kind of for it. By kind of for it, I mean it's acceptable in bits, but that doesn't make it any less racist.
However, there have been plenty of bookers who have at least said racist expressions, or have implied racist views. I will now guide you to Cowboy Bill Watts and Vince Russo's quotes. Both them express sheer ignorance on the subject, one of which is baffling. The fact that either of these men would say such things, one being the president of a multi million dollar company, should show you just how racist views infiltrate the wrestling world. Again, entertainment is entertainment, but it still doesn't exclude racism in the slightest, if expressed.
When it comes to "racist" gimmicks, I try to imagine the intent behind the character. If the gimmick is introduced as a parody or played for laughs, it's one thing. When it's played as serious or with the intent to be cruel, that's another story.
Having said that, I definitely consider the king of all racist gimmicks to be Saba Simba. It's highly unlikely Vince had any plans to make that gimmick succeed, especially with all the stories of Vince being upset with Tony Atlas. That concept was doomed from day one, and I doubt Vince wasn't aware of that. Plus, instead of pretending he was a new character, like they did with Ricky Steamboat as the Dragon, they acknowledged that it actually was Tony Atlas dancing around like an idiot. It seemed to be designed purely for humiliation from a racial perspective.
Having said that, I definitely consider the king of all racist gimmicks to be Saba Simba. It's highly unlikely Vince had any plans to make that gimmick succeed, especially with all the stories of Vince being upset with Tony Atlas. That concept was doomed from day one, and I doubt Vince wasn't aware of that. Plus, instead of pretending he was a new character, like they did with Ricky Steamboat as the Dragon, they acknowledged that it actually was Tony Atlas dancing around like an idiot. It seemed to be designed purely for humiliation from a racial perspective.
In terms of racism, lets look at the biggest one going and that's Sheamus.
First I'll attack the idiots in the crowd, online etc which keep mocking him due to his skin colour. That's racist beyond belief, if they did that to any black man not only would they be kicked out, they'll be arrested. The double standards of racism. Racism laws are racist.
Then we move on to John Cena who keeps referring to Sheamus with such terms as Mayonnaise, that's an rather insulting comment based on skin colour. A skin colour common in Irish people.
Racism has always been in the wrestling business, it how it draws heat and gives some wrestlers a character. In the end most wrestlers are a stereotype of a group regardless of race, background, disability etc. For example Cryme Tyme were not the first to steal, there was Eddie (a Mexican/Texas) and sooner or later someone else will have that role.
First I'll attack the idiots in the crowd, online etc which keep mocking him due to his skin colour. That's racist beyond belief, if they did that to any black man not only would they be kicked out, they'll be arrested. The double standards of racism. Racism laws are racist.
Then we move on to John Cena who keeps referring to Sheamus with such terms as Mayonnaise, that's an rather insulting comment based on skin colour. A skin colour common in Irish people.
Racism has always been in the wrestling business, it how it draws heat and gives some wrestlers a character. In the end most wrestlers are a stereotype of a group regardless of race, background, disability etc. For example Cryme Tyme were not the first to steal, there was Eddie (a Mexican/Texas) and sooner or later someone else will have that role.
Jimmy King
Future Moderater
No one cares about racism in modern America with this topic. It's about racism in professional wrestling. And, though I'm not saying it never happens, I have NEVER heard a black person call anyone a "cracker."
Now, onto the original post. I absolutely hate the fact that every WWE wrestler makes fun of Sheamus for being pale. Or the fact the Morrison said last night that "the French do not bathe." This is ridiculous and ludicrous. WWE seemed to had hit a high note with The Rock, Booker T as well. But when you continually keep Kofi Kingston and God knows MVP in the mid card, there's no room for any other race to advance and be the face of the company. Though Vince may not actually be racist, he's perceived as one. And perception is reality.
El Rev sXe
If you have ghosts...
IMO it has to be when JBL had his fight against "illegal" latins. and nop, I'm not talking about the feud with Rey, I'm talking about the feud with Eddie. that one for me showed how the WWE or VKM or JBL (any if not all of them) needs stupidity. first of all I'm a BIG BIG fan of Eddie but he "lie, cheat, steal" was crap. 2nd of all, JBL a fucking asshole (the character) who is rich, white and thinbk that immigrants are"stealing the jobs of americans". with these two gimmicks, with both of them in a feud it shown how cheap can be wrestling. we all know is fake, but i order to be a great heel, is necesarry to be racist?why can't you be just mean? you are coward, you give cheap shots...but you need to go after a stereotype? IMO NO, that proves that you aren't a very creative wrestler.
and for the guy (big fan of WCW don't remember your name) that said that illegal immigrants have NO RESPECT for "his" country, well sir with all respect, the fact is that you are dealing with actual HUMAN BEINGS. it doesn't matter where they come from, how, when..we are all human beings and everyone deserves to be treated equal. and for people like you that say's that they have "NO RESPECT" well, that foments racism. have they spat on your flag, say the USA are a piece of shit? of course they want to be there!
and for the guy (big fan of WCW don't remember your name) that said that illegal immigrants have NO RESPECT for "his" country, well sir with all respect, the fact is that you are dealing with actual HUMAN BEINGS. it doesn't matter where they come from, how, when..we are all human beings and everyone deserves to be treated equal. and for people like you that say's that they have "NO RESPECT" well, that foments racism. have they spat on your flag, say the USA are a piece of shit? of course they want to be there!
Dwayne_Jason
Do I have everybody's attention now
I'm gonna go on a whim and say...."why not?" It's pretty unpopular yes, but pro wrestling Racism in definition is pointing at a single group of people and not everyone. That's stereotype. And Stereotypes are everywhere. There's a stereotype for blacks, Asians, whites, Hispanics, etc. As for Kamala, yes that is going too far, however Undertaker was also on the whim of Paul Bearer does that mean white men are slaves. Not necessarily. Frankly I don't know what they did or if they did it for stereotypical reasons at all (If someone has an idea please enlighten me but on another post). I do admit there is stereotype but then again there is also a way to turn the stereotype into a message. For example in Kamala's case, I'm not sure if he turned face or heel but in this situation the best way for Kamala to turn face is to attack the white man and turn face and think for himself thereby reflecting equality and also referencing the civil war. Stereotypes are no necessarily bad, but simply need to be tweaked in a way to play the crowd properly. Vince Russo is a fucking idiot. American fans don't care for bland white wrestlers they need people that are larger than life. The greatest example: The Rock. Fucking moron.
Now then as far as the worst stereotypical wrestler I've seen is: Muhammad Assad (I forgot his name) An arabic heel who complained about being a citizen.
Great thread
Now then as far as the worst stereotypical wrestler I've seen is: Muhammad Assad (I forgot his name) An arabic heel who complained about being a citizen.
Great thread
Awesome Kong aka Kamala without the paint and belly slaps and music reminiscent of king kong
Her handler
Raisha Saeed aka the Arabic Kim Chee who can easily support her own thread
and the Kongtourage
Rhaka Khan, and Sojournor Bolt who both can support their own thread
I didn't see it as such when I was watching but she sure has a hell of a lot in common with Kamala
Her handler
Raisha Saeed aka the Arabic Kim Chee who can easily support her own thread
and the Kongtourage
Rhaka Khan, and Sojournor Bolt who both can support their own thread
I didn't see it as such when I was watching but she sure has a hell of a lot in common with Kamala
Dum Dum Dudley
Alberto Del Rio's English Announcer
I find this topic to be quite interesting as I did a piece of Uni work about race and I based a lot of it on wrestling. I received my highest grade for that piece of work so I guess I owe VKM a thankyou. The one wrestler I focused a lot on, and who I can't believe no-one has mentioned yet, was Umaga. It was all there. Because he didn't speak English, he was classed as a savage and he had a 'manager/handler' in Armando Estrada. During '07, he was used as a hired gun by Vince and Shane during their feud with Lashley and he was always let loose like some kind of fucking animal like Mike Tyson's tiger in 'The Hangover'.
So overall, he was pushed as a) Samoan and b) primitive. The use of tribal music and the fact his finisher was the 'Samoan Spike' and he spoke no English presented him as foreign and his squashing of Flair, Hardy etc presented him as a powerful beast. I had a photo of him pinning Jeff with that pin he always used to where he is crouched over his foe like a lion on a gazelle which again, links back to the idea that Samoans are primitive apes.
On the other hand, Samoans are presented in wrestling in a favourable light such as The Rock inducting his grandfather in the HOF so I guess it's swings and roundabouts.
So overall, he was pushed as a) Samoan and b) primitive. The use of tribal music and the fact his finisher was the 'Samoan Spike' and he spoke no English presented him as foreign and his squashing of Flair, Hardy etc presented him as a powerful beast. I had a photo of him pinning Jeff with that pin he always used to where he is crouched over his foe like a lion on a gazelle which again, links back to the idea that Samoans are primitive apes.
On the other hand, Samoans are presented in wrestling in a favourable light such as The Rock inducting his grandfather in the HOF so I guess it's swings and roundabouts.
Alex
King Of The Wasteland
Relating to this, Samoa Joe's gimmick from last year where he became a pyschopath, attacking people with his tribal knife and having that tribal paint on his face and creating the 'Nation Of Violence' just was a tad racist in my opinion.
Dum Dum Dudley
Alberto Del Rio's English Announcer
That's a good point man. In fact, if Joe had not been speaking English since his debut, I could easily see him being booked like Umaga, with the emphasis more on Joe being a mindless animal than a tribal warrior. I think that's why a lot of the time he was just silent like WCW-era Sting and let his actions do the talking.
Honestly, I've hardly ever been offended by anything I've seen in wrestling. Because it's not meant to entertain the intellectuals among us. That may sound a bit snobby, but i'm going to stand by it. I'm not saying that wrestling fans are dumb, but bookers sure seem to think we are. (Of course, a few people in this thread have proven them right. The "n" word? Really guys? That's mature.) One dimensional characters that are easy to figure out and laughs that you don't have to think too hard about are bound to come up.
What's the easiest way to get cheap laughs and one dimensional characters? Stereotypes. So, in the booking world (whether it's Vinne Mac or not) age isn't safe (Mae Young), different body types aren't safe (Mickie James, Bertha Faye), different socio-economic classes aren't safe (JBL, Cody Deaner), gender, sexual orientation, race, nationality, religion, and the list goes on and on for freaking ever. So, I don't really think it's racist, or sexist, or classist, or, homophobic. I think it's just drenched in stereotypes and parodies that everyone from every group who is the slightest bit different will get hit at some point in time or another and that, by its very nature, really takes away the racist element from most (if not all) gimmicks for me. That's just the nature of the entertainment.
What's the easiest way to get cheap laughs and one dimensional characters? Stereotypes. So, in the booking world (whether it's Vinne Mac or not) age isn't safe (Mae Young), different body types aren't safe (Mickie James, Bertha Faye), different socio-economic classes aren't safe (JBL, Cody Deaner), gender, sexual orientation, race, nationality, religion, and the list goes on and on for freaking ever. So, I don't really think it's racist, or sexist, or classist, or, homophobic. I think it's just drenched in stereotypes and parodies that everyone from every group who is the slightest bit different will get hit at some point in time or another and that, by its very nature, really takes away the racist element from most (if not all) gimmicks for me. That's just the nature of the entertainment.
wrestlebomb89
Dark Match Winner
While we're on the subject of racist gimmicks what about virgil,the black servant/bodyguard of ted dibiase sr?And,this one's probably going to get a lot heat,but some could view john cena's rapper gimmick as "just that wigger who's trying to be black".Honorable mentions go to:
-tatanka
-papa shango
-the godfather
-big daddy v possibly
-the full blooded italians(ecw stable)
-L.A.X when they were doing that whole anti-american gimmick
-and for the roh fans you got the ghanian guy portraying himself as a prince(prince nana)
There's dozens more but i cant think of em off the top of my head at the moment
-tatanka
-papa shango
-the godfather
-big daddy v possibly
-the full blooded italians(ecw stable)
-L.A.X when they were doing that whole anti-american gimmick
-and for the roh fans you got the ghanian guy portraying himself as a prince(prince nana)
There's dozens more but i cant think of em off the top of my head at the moment
At the risk of being torn apart by Tenta I’m going to play devil’s advocate. Just because certain gimmicks are based on stereotypes does not necessarily make them racist. Racism is when someone believes his race is superior to others. Take the Mexicools for example. Having Mexican wrestlers ride out on a lawn mower is very stereotypical. However, I don’t believe this gimmick suggests that anyone feels they are better than Mexicans. If every Mexican had this gimmick there would be a better argument for it being racist. By the way, I think the booking for them was ok since Smackdown has such a large Mexican fan base. They were heel so why not have them portray a stereotype the fans wouldn’t like?
Over the years many people have stated that Saba Simba was the most racist gimmick ever. How so? Why wasn’t he a tribute the African Warriors? Kamala may be a little harder to argue, but I will anyway. Like the Mexicools, not all black wrestlers had a gimmick like Kamala. Junkyard Dog, Koko B. Ware, and Butch Reed were three other black wrestlers in the WWF at the same time as Kamala. They were all capable of thinking and speaking for themselves. They were not led by a white man (never saw Kimchee without his mask so not sure if he was white). Kamala was just a gimmick and I don’t remember anyone ever implying that he was a representative of the entire African race. George Steele seemed to have no sense of thought and had trouble communicating. He was led by Lou Albano. No one ever thought of George Steele as a racist character. Why does Kamala’s war paint have to do with race, but The Ultimate Warrior’s and Sting’s doesn’t? Besides, these guys are supposed to be from Africa. How is it racist for them to have a spear, shield, and mask/headdress, if actual African warrior tribes have them?
I know I may be naïve, but my innocent mind never really looked at things in terms of race in wrestling.
Over the years many people have stated that Saba Simba was the most racist gimmick ever. How so? Why wasn’t he a tribute the African Warriors? Kamala may be a little harder to argue, but I will anyway. Like the Mexicools, not all black wrestlers had a gimmick like Kamala. Junkyard Dog, Koko B. Ware, and Butch Reed were three other black wrestlers in the WWF at the same time as Kamala. They were all capable of thinking and speaking for themselves. They were not led by a white man (never saw Kimchee without his mask so not sure if he was white). Kamala was just a gimmick and I don’t remember anyone ever implying that he was a representative of the entire African race. George Steele seemed to have no sense of thought and had trouble communicating. He was led by Lou Albano. No one ever thought of George Steele as a racist character. Why does Kamala’s war paint have to do with race, but The Ultimate Warrior’s and Sting’s doesn’t? Besides, these guys are supposed to be from Africa. How is it racist for them to have a spear, shield, and mask/headdress, if actual African warrior tribes have them?
I know I may be naïve, but my innocent mind never really looked at things in terms of race in wrestling.
Pay Per Ghost
What they f*ck happened in the thread section here
Hey big -time federal guy, do you think for a second that people sneak into your country for the fun of it and just to piss on old glory??
If you for one miserable day could live in a 3rd world country and see what it's like, you would know that they are grateful to your country and all that it provides for them.
I am not saying there aren't poor people in America and that there isn't any hardship, but an average immigrant comes from worse conditions financially and medically than your average American.
Do I speak for all immigrants? No. But most, HELL YEAH!
Nobody likes working 3 shifts a days but they do because they wanna support a family back home and the pay-structure in America is waaaaaaayyy better than what they have.
Back to Wrestling,
Growing up I never saw a character and jumped to the conclusion of 'oh that's racist'. I saw it only as pure entertainment.
But come to think of it one of the greatest, most charismatic, gifted superstars of our time had probably THE MOST racist and bigoted gimmick.
Eddie Guerrero, LIE CHEAT & STEAL.
But am I the only one who loved it like crazy???
good thread btw
donebrasko
New Member
I am surprised that no one ever mentioned when John Cena was a rapper and put a spinner on the belt. The whole hip hop-rap thing was very popular and VKM needed a character to attract the crowd. What does he do? He gets a white guy to play the role with C-Tyme being his little lap dogs.
I see this as racist because there are plenty of black wrestlers that could have played that role and deserved a push. He gives it to a white guy. It literally made me sick to watch it on TV. Yeah I know everyone talks about stereotypical roles but VKM has put his workers in those roles anyway so why does he not do it when he is ready to give someone a big championship winning potential stereotypical character push?
And please correct me if I am wrong but has C-Tyme ever held the tag team belt? If so how many times? I have always watched them lose championship matches. I dont like C-Tyme either but I did expect them to win a belt every once in a while
I see this as racist because there are plenty of black wrestlers that could have played that role and deserved a push. He gives it to a white guy. It literally made me sick to watch it on TV. Yeah I know everyone talks about stereotypical roles but VKM has put his workers in those roles anyway so why does he not do it when he is ready to give someone a big championship winning potential stereotypical character push?
And please correct me if I am wrong but has C-Tyme ever held the tag team belt? If so how many times? I have always watched them lose championship matches. I dont like C-Tyme either but I did expect them to win a belt every once in a while
longlivetheBrood
Occasional Pre-Show
I remember seeing the first promo for Cryme Tyme and thinking "Wow thats incredibly racist and stereotypical." That being said I said the same thing about Cody Deaner or whatever his name is, the Headshrinkers, the Bushwhackers, Kamala, Big Bossman complete with Confederate battle flag on his arm beating a handcuffed Virgil, Kaientai, the Mexicools, the West Texas Rednecks, LAX, anybody with a tribal gimmick (kudos for McMahon for 'allowing' the Usos to come off as educated and civilized), Outback Jack, Killer Khan, etc. It's as if we're supposed to believe that if someone isn't from this country they're extremely uncivilized and different.
An earlier poster was right though it seems to be ok for the portrayal to be sterotypical towards a minority but it rarely happens the other way around. It's been since the days of the NWA in the 80s that we've seen self-proclaimed rednecks in the ring and the 80's and 90's WWE since we've seen Hillbilly Jim & his family or Phineus and Hank Godwinn, and since the 70's AWA since the Irwins were around.
Slick, as mentioned above was a racist gimmick but damn it was entertaining as was the Godfather who I wish would make an appearance every now and then. Tony Atlas standing on stage and laughing ridiculously like some over-the-top character in a minstrel show made me shake my head and wonder what he was doing there.
I don't know if I made any conclusions there I just kind of got lost in my thoughts...
An earlier poster was right though it seems to be ok for the portrayal to be sterotypical towards a minority but it rarely happens the other way around. It's been since the days of the NWA in the 80s that we've seen self-proclaimed rednecks in the ring and the 80's and 90's WWE since we've seen Hillbilly Jim & his family or Phineus and Hank Godwinn, and since the 70's AWA since the Irwins were around.
Slick, as mentioned above was a racist gimmick but damn it was entertaining as was the Godfather who I wish would make an appearance every now and then. Tony Atlas standing on stage and laughing ridiculously like some over-the-top character in a minstrel show made me shake my head and wonder what he was doing there.
I don't know if I made any conclusions there I just kind of got lost in my thoughts...
FuzzyDunlop
Dark Match Winner
If anybody wants to be in this country so bad, go through the proper channels and become a legal citizen. If you don't think you want to do that and would rather sneak over a fence, then I guess you don't want to be an American that bad!
Why,even if they do that,people like you would still find a reason to complain about them. Hell,we basically snuck over the fence when we stole the damn country from the Native Americans in the first place. I didn't know that undertaking what was basically a blatant land grab and killing anybody that didn't like it was what you would consider going through the proper channels. Seriously I wonder about some of the people in this country.
Anyway,I don't want to hijack Tenta's thread with my political rantings.
Personally,I think WCW was by far the worst offender when it came to race. There was the Bill Watts thing,the Vince Russo rant and one of my personal favorites,the time they fired every Mexican wrestler on the roster,despite the fact that most of them were some of the best workers on the roster.
Why,even if they do that,people like you would still find a reason to complain about them. Hell,we basically snuck over the fence when we stole the damn country from the Native Americans in the first place. I didn't know that undertaking what was basically a blatant land grab and killing anybody that didn't like it was what you would consider going through the proper channels. Seriously I wonder about some of the people in this country.
Anyway,I don't want to hijack Tenta's thread with my political rantings.
Personally,I think WCW was by far the worst offender when it came to race. There was the Bill Watts thing,the Vince Russo rant and one of my personal favorites,the time they fired every Mexican wrestler on the roster,despite the fact that most of them were some of the best workers on the roster.
