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Did someone just vote for AJ Styles? REALLY?
Sorry this match is about as 1 sided as it gets. Sure, AJ is a fantastic performer but to suggest he is in Michaels league in any other facet is just asinine. I like AJ a lot but he lacks charisma, lacks character and as good as he is in the ring he isn't as good as HBK, not by a long shot and he never will be.
AJ puts up a good fight but ultimately falls victim to the showstopper.
come on you cant really expect hbk to win a one on one match with someone with the skills of aj styles, it dosent matter how much charisma he has, which by the the way is alot more then most people give him credit for, aj is unpredictable, even against someone he has faced multiple times, hbk would put up a hell of a fight but come on, aj has just as much in-ring skills as hbk how can you not take aj as a serious threat, you would be an idiot to underestimate anybody at anytime
In wrestling outside variables like charisma and character mean a hell of a lot more in a match than in ring skill, I'll tell you that much, why the hell do you think Hogan won almost every night? This isn't a shoot fight, this is a pro wrestling match. I'll never discredit that AJ isn't a great wrestler and storyteller but come on, Michaels tells a better story in the ring than Shakespeare tells plays. A great match yes but its not even debatable to think AJ has a shot here.
They aren't in the same league and there is no real argument that can ever be made to make it even SEEM like they are on the same level.
Michaels can beat AJ and his meat at the same time.
Come on im not saying that they arent important factors, sure in those categories if thats what in-ring wrestling amounts to, hbk would win hands down, but you cant exclude everything else, aj can be a legit threat to anyone at anytime, and yes hbk is one of the all time greatest, period, but to discount aj without even seriously considering aj as a threat, hbk would never underestimate anyone, no matter who they were, he gave it his all every single match, no matter who he was facing, but aj can perform just as well, its just he hasn't been in professional wrestling as long as hbk, but aj has been wrestling for many years before TNA opened, he has just has much experience, just not in the big leagues like WWE
The idea of the thread is who would win a match between AJ Styles and HBK and I think HBK is simply better than AJ Styles. The match is very one sided and this has nothing to do with AJ never wrestling in the WWE or that he hasn't been wrestling as long.
I think AJ vs. Michaels would be a fantastic match but you are talking like this is an MMA fight or something, not a pro wrestling match. It's not a knock against AJ's skills in the ring, or how good he is I'm just being realistic. Would AJ give a great match and hang with Michaels? Yes. Would there be points where it looks like AJ could win? Yes. Would AJ and Michaels give everything they have and have the crowd on its feet the whole match? You bet. Would AJ be booked in a dream match scenario to go over HBK? Not at all unless the match was booked by Dixie Carter or a TNA fanboy.
come on you arent even really proving anything, come i think out of everyone hbk has faced during his legendary career, aj styles would be his toughest challenge, because aj is pretty much a younger version of himself, hbk always puts his body on the line, and now, almost two decades later, he is feeling the effects, aj puts his body on line most matches too, but it can hang with the best when it comes to almost any style of wrestling, aj would use hbks risk-taking to his advantage and captilize, just like anyone would, im not knocking hbk or wwe at all, its just that im being realistic about aj's chances, would hbk, probably, but aj would take hbk to the limit and capitilize on hbks mistakes, and vice-versa, come you cant tell me aj wouldnt have the slightest chance, upsets happen all the time, remember when the 1-2-3 kid upset razor ramon, everyone was shocked because of how a rising star like razor ramon could lose to a nobody like the 1-2-3 kid
I usually wouldn't say this but for the love of god use a period once in a while, these posts are unbelievably difficult to read.
Razor Ramon and the 1-2-3 Kid is a completely different animal than HBK vs. AJ Styles. The Kid defeating Razor was a way to show the audience that "anything can happen in the WWF", to make a new star and to make Razor a baby face. AJ vs. HBK. However, this is a one off dream match that would never happen again. Now if they were having a feud or a program together it would be a different situation but in this situation it's not like that at all.
In a dream match scenario I don't see AJ winning this one, I just don't. I understand you are trying to book the match to show how AJ could win by capitalizing on HBK's mistake but I would say its much more plausible for it to be the other way around. After HBK came back he was a lot smarter in the ring than he was before his back injury. Although he took high risks, he simply didn't take as many, he would take a few in a match but not tons like he did earlier. AJ on the other hand takes more risks than he should which makes it more reasonable for him to be the one to make a high risk mistake and for HBK to capitalize on it. You can't really use the high risk argument in AJ's favor because it's much more likely to happen the other way.
In a dream match it more/less comes down to who is the bigger star. HBK is the bigger star, therefore he would probably win. It's not that AJ isn't good enough to beat HBK, I'm just saying you are comparing apples in oranges.
For example if AJ was in WWE in lets say 2006 and had a feud with HBK chances are AJ is taking the win because it makes more sense for him to do so. The simple truth is this. Even though AJ is amazing in the ring (he truly is phenomenal) he isn't a WWE guy, he's a TNA guy. Now that may sound like an unfair argument to make but its a realistic one as well. It would be like Bret Hart defeating Ric Flair in 1983. Sure, Bret is the biggest star in Stampede wrestling, but Flair is the biggest star in the world (outside of Hogan) so no one would ever believe Bret would beat Ric Flair in that situation. Its not just about the talent, its also about the situation the match takes place in.
I understand what you are saying about hbk, but it seems like your main focus is hbks star power.Which is pretty much unrivaled, even to this day, but imagine hbk vs aj styles back before either were the stars they were today, back in their prime. Both had to bust their asses off to get where they are today, and their accomplishments speak from themselves.But you cant just use star power as your main argument over who would win, because even legends like hbk,triple h, the rock, undertaker, they all had to put over people, even they have massive star power, because, they are paving way for the next generation of superstars. I already acknowledged hbk and his legendary status, but you cant just rule out aj styles based on comparisons of star power.
Star power is one reason yes but far from the only reason. My honest opinion, there is nothing AJ Styles can do that HBK can't, and usually HBK does it better. HBK is a better wrestler, better storyteller, better everything. All AJ has over HBK is his high spots are more impressive, that's about it. As great as AJ is he simply isn't as good as HBK. Michaels has won match of the year 11 times, AJ's best match (Unbreakable 2005) still wasn't as good as Angle vs. HBK at WM21 even though it was a fantastic match. AJ's great, but HBK is the best between the ropes, simple as that.
Star power is a very important argument in deciding who wins especially in a dream match scenario. You can't take AJ and Michaels early in their careers because it isn't a dream match, its just a good match because at that point both guys don't have much noteriety. If its a program then yes HBK putting AJ over is perfectly fine but in a who is the greatest match you give the win to who is better. HBK is better.
You are still using the same argument that HBK is the greatest period, for the umpteenth time, i never said aj styles was better then HBK in any way. Back to what factors are determined who would win in a dream match, i never ever said that star power wasnt a factor, i said that its not the only important factor, factors like adaptibility,longevity,charisma,movesets,past fueds,ppvs involved in/ wins/losses, accomplishments, future outlooks, etc. You have to consider every angle, not just the big picture. You also have to look how well they were able to sell their moves, put people over, and and who they have defeated. I don't know how many times i have to keep saying this, im not knocking or disrespecting hbk or placing aj styles on a pedelstool, i was just giving my my opinion and now im defending what seems like an endless argument, who would win if they actually faced off, your guess is as good as mine, but im just stating who i would pick in a first encounter, now, if this was a feud, i would give shawn michaels the edge based on the fact that he could adapt extremely well to someone he has faced multiple times
I never knocked AJ Styles and never said you are knocking HBK. I didn't say star power is the only factor, just said it was a very important factor. When it comes to ALL categories that matter, character, charisma, in ring skill, mic skill, impact on the business, drawing power, feuds, ect. the only thing I would possibly give to AJ Styles is his moveset, HBK for my taste takes the cake in every other category. It's not putting HBK on a pedestal, its just being realistic.
I gave my initial argument, you are the one who made this into a debate with me, not the other way around and I simply defended who I would take in such a match up. Outside of your no periods not once have I insulted you or put words in your mouth, so I ask for the same courtesy. I never said you were putting AJ on a pedestal or thrashing HBK's skills, that's how you took it. Never once did I trash AJ, I just gave my opinion that HBK is better in pretty much every category, that's all. You didn't have to say your point more than once, I read it the first time just fine. Not saying you don't have a point to what you are saying, I just don't agree with it. You don't agree with mine and I don't expect you to either but that's what a debate is.
I'm also not knocking anyone who thinks AJ would win, he's a very gifted and talented performer but when I look at everything I just don't see AJ on the same level as HBK. It's not at all a knock against AJ, I've been a AJ Styles fan since the 2nd TNA PPV back in '02 but in any way you measure a performer I can't take AJ over HBK and I won't.
At least we are finally coming to an understanding, I respect your opnion of HBK just like i would you would on my opinion of aj styles. But add to something you said that i said you were putting words in my mouth, nonsense, i never implied that nor did i say that you were knocking aj styles, I am simply drawing my own conclusions about what you had said. I was just countering your argument that was defending your opinion while questioning my opinion, each to his own opinions. I'm not denying your arguments just simply trying to understand how you came to it, thats all I have been trying to do.
You already know who I'm going with.