Evolution of Hardcore Wrestling

[Leafy]

We all know what hardcore wrestling is. Wrestling where the focus is put on weapons than on the wrestling ability of those involved. It's made superstars such as Mick Foley and The Sandman, and cut wrestling career's short such as CZW's Nick Mondo. Some people follow such promotions that focus on hardcore like CZW, and others think hardcore wrestling is the cancer of wrestling.

In the early days of wrestling, let's say the first Wrestlemania, the hardcore match was called no dq and you might see a chair shot or a illegal choke. In modern wrestling, you can see anything from a weed whacker to a barb wire table. As wrestling continues the creativity of hardcore expands. But when will the creativity be called murder? I would not be surprised if a wrestler died in a hardcore match in modern wrestling. Take a look at the outcome of a CZW match

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiPs6_KPeVM[/YOUTUBE]

When does a suplex become a way to seriously injure or kill both of the participants? We've seen light tubes and windshields, how long before we see a weapon like a knife be used? The bloodthirst of some fans can be compared to the Romans who watched the gladiators kill each other in sport. How long until the term "deathmatch" is used literally?

I view hardcore wrestling as a cancer and helping agent in wrestling success. It used to be used in storylines where a regular match can't hold the emotion in the storyline. Now it's used in openers where you can see a man shed more blood than Randy Savage shed in his career. When people outside the wrestling community see this they use this as a negative summary of wrestling. If they see great wrestling accompanied by good writing eventually leading to the hardcore match, they are intrigued and drawn in.

What are your thoughts on hardcore wrestling and how far do you see the creativity of the weapons going?

 

[BladeRunner]

Man has forever found ways to prove how tough he is.

Some jump off buildings. Some fly around like bats in "bird suits" after jumping off of mountains. And then there's guys who prove how tough they are by doing hardcore wrestling.

Yes, the stuff can get absolutely brutal. But these people choose to do this. You have to really love this stuff to put yourself at physical risk. But hey, it's how these people like to live, which is on the edge. If they weren't doing this, they would be doing some other sort of hardcore stuff.

They choose this. And as long as they choose this, there will be people who want to see this crazy shit. It won't ever go away, because it's man's nature to see how far he can push himself.

Although violent, I see nothing wrong with it, because it's what these guys love and choose to do.

Besides, people do violence to their bodies all the time. They tattoo themselves, they pierce themselves to string beads, they put metal stuff underneath their skin. It's just cultural taboos that say which ones are correct and which ones aren't.

 

[Remix]

Hardcore Wrestling is kind of like the crazy relative that lives in the attic. Sure it's great every once in a while when you take him out for special occasions; but give him control of a country and boom you've got world war 1. The problem however isn't hardcore matches themselves though. There's nothing wrong with a match where anything goes (especially if you put over that the guys are going to kill eachother) every so often. the problem happens when you bring them out too often they lose their impact and means that the match doesnt seem as important or brutal. worse still is when you base your entire promotion on it. then you've not only got to get over the reduction of OMGness caused by insane weapon shots, you've also got to worry about how the fuck you top a 10,000 lighttube, barbed wire, taipei death match. which eventually leads to insane spotf/bumpfests and ******ed gimmicks (see: exploding ring match). not to mention that hardcore madness leads to injuries which leads to painkiller and/or other drug addictions which can lead to premature death (see: Umaga, Bam Bam, and Eddie Gurrerro).

On the whole I'd say there's nothind wrong with hardcore wrestling. It is never going to be mainstream (ECW, while it had its manic fans wasn't and it was as close as any hardcore company is going to get), but it still has its place. However like the crazy relative in the attic, you can't use it too often. It's bad for the wrestlers, its bad for the fans (who'll keep expecting bigger and bigger spots), and its bad for itself (HiaC used to be the match to end all matches. It cut years off of careers and shortened lives. Now it didnt even end the UT vs. Punk fued (and as Batista reminded us a few years ago "weapons arent just encouraged... they're allowed")).

 

[Leafy]

Remix brings up a good point. It's hard for companies such as CZW to top their previous spots. They're almost forced to bring in weapons such as the glass fist or create new matches like the exploding ring.

Another point I thought of, when does hardcore wrestling almost create a different sport. When you compare a 5 star technical match with a backyard match, they almost look like different sports. The only thing linking the two is the three count at the end, if the backyard match ends that way. I recently watched the documentary, The Backyard. A very eye opening experience seeing the bloody wrestler put his life on the line to 3 people which he called a "big crowd". When you compare the reversals of the technical and the violence of the hardcore they become different sports.

Is hardcore wrestling a completely different sport than technical wrestling?

 

[BladeRunner]

Yes, hardcore is an evolutionarily new "animal". It has parts that are similar to that animal from which it came from, but much of it has become different.

Technical wrestling is about the "excellent of execution". The stuff of which most 5 star matches are about.

Hardcore is about being extreme. It's about being realer, bloodier, rawer. It's about using weapons, and fighting under brutal conditions. It's more like blood sport.

The reason I can say they're different is because the audiences can be very split on the subject.

Like there are many who think hardcore is disgusting and too violent, while loving everything about technical wrestling and all of it's aspects.

And then you got people who think technical wrestling isn't all it's cracked up to be, and hardcore is where it's at.

So, I'm saying if the audience is split enough on a particular aspect, it will create a separation and something new.

And then some companies try to straddle the line between the different audiences, and have a little bit of everything for everybody. And of course, there's fans who love all types of wrestling no matter which kind it is.

 

[Leafy]

Also the way you fight the different matches are opposites. In technical wrestling the winner is the better athlete. In hardcore matches the winner is the one who can last the longest and has the determination to beat his opponent into a bloody pulp. They can represent different aspects of a storyline, technical being who's better, hardcore being the more emotional storylines.

When CZW demotes the hardcore fight to the regular match, the technical wrestling represents people who are afraid of using weapons. You hear chants like "You Fucked Up!" the people don't care for the men in the ring, only to see them get bloody and put their bodies on the lines. How are you supposed to connect with the wrestlers when you don't care if they do a dangerous botch? Wrestling is supposed to tell a story and I don't think a hardcore match with no backstory can do that, while a technical one can.

 

[Dagger Dias]

What are your thoughts on hardcore wrestling and how far do you see the creativity of the weapons going?

Hardcore matches can be cool but they should be done rarely. Not just to avoid the various weapons becoming stale, but also for the safety of the wrestlers. I like a good hardcore match as much as the next guy, but they are more dangerous than any other type of match and something terrible could happen if anything goes wrong. As long as hardcore wrestling is done less often (like it is right now) and only by wrestlers who the federation knows will be able to handle the match, then I think it will be alright.

As for the creativity of the weapons being used.... I think that we will reach a point when nearly any type of object will be used.... Anything but "true" weapons like guns or swords. Most types of objects will be used at some point if they haven't already, but not "real" weapons because that would be far too controversial and someone might die in the match.

I honestly have mixed feelings about hardcore itself. It can be entertaining every now and then.... but matches without weapons are not only safer, but also more entertaining when seeing many in a row when compared to weapons matches because the same gimmick over and over again gets stale.... not to mention the issues concerning safety which has already been brought up a lot.

 

[DR.Dopenhagen]

I love Big Japan Pro Wrestling they have some of the most insanely awesome matches ever and the wrestlers are actually very talented (unlike the bums over at CZW) Bjw usually has better technical wrestling and ring psychology than WWE they just do it on exploding barbed wire and razor blades.
BJW! BJW! BJW!

 

[Leafy]

You see I've never seen BJPW, but I can infer that they aren't as technical as they seem. If they were technical then they would rely on their wrestling background instead of doing a most likely sloppy move and hoping the explosion will make up for the sloppiness.

And even if they were great wrestlers, do you want them to have long careers so they can entertain you and they won't be in a wheelchair by 30? When you continually do matches where you land in barb wire or get attacked by a weed whacker, that takes decades off your wrestling career.

We can look at the old school wrestlers and wonder how they can still wrestle 30 years after their prime. It's because "hardcore" meant being bladed and getting hit by a chair. You can easily recover and in doing so you career recovers as well. When the current generation of wrestlers are relying on spots to get them over, we are left with a broken and dying new generation, and you can't build the house on a foundation of sand.

 

[Wrath]

I think that weapons should not be the main focus of the wrestling. The reason behind all of those weapons and hardcore matches is to further up to story or end the story. So it's just a storytelling aspect that's used in wrestling for years. For example when you have 6 months of an intense feud you can not expect for them to only go out wrestle anymore you want them their tear each others apart. It makes hardcore matches exciting because you know that they don't use weapons for no reason they made you believe that those 2 men really want to kill each other so the story behind the match much more exciting.

My problem with hardcore wrestling promotions is when you see a 2000 lighttube match yeah it's cool to see doing people all of those sick and dangerous spots but when it becomes repetitive it just gets stale really quick. Because in hardcore matches there are some limits. For example it's really exciting to see Abbys go through thumbtacks for the first time when you see it for the second time you still can get amazed but right now I'm used to seeing people go through thumbtacks in TNA so when I see it I really don't get excited anymore. You can't always top your previous spots because after an amount of time it can become really dangerous. If you're a huge CZW or another hardcore promotion fan after a period of time you'll get used to seeing thumbtacks,fires and lighttubes. So I always preferred watching hardcore matches in an end of a long and heated rivalry and it's the reason why regular matches will always be standart match type because it never gets old and stale like gimmick matches get.

The first and only time hardcore wrestling promotion worked was ECW. Because it was the first time people those all of that stuff it really was a huge alternative to both WCW and WWF products. As opposed to WWF's cartonish characters and storylines,big heavy men and squash matches ECW produced some of the darkest characters and storylines,violent and bloody matches and introduced lucha libres to North America. But right now it's not the case we have seen all of those stuff in Attitude era and right now in TNA so much. So it's not exciting to see it anymore.

Actually the overuse of blood and weapons don't disturb me as it does to others but to see two men put their bodys' on the line every week is what limits hardcore wrestling because after an amount of time you're getting used to see it. So it kills the excitement factor. Hardcore and weapons are two of the elements that is needed in wrestling especially in heated rivalries but it should never be the focus of wrestling.