Eminem: Lyrics and Style or...

[Ferbian]

Skin Color?

First, this is nothing remotely ment to be a racial thing, if you're offended, I sincerely apologize, this is merely a thought I had listening to Eminem's "White America" where he talks about his success being because of his skin color.

Some good examples to this is

they connected with me too because I looked like them

Look at these eyes, baby blue, baby just like yourself, if they were brown, Shady lose, Shady
Sits on the shelf, but Shady's cute, Shady knew, Shady's dimple's would help, make ladies swoon
Baby, {ooh baby}, look at my sales, let's do the math, if I was black, I would've sold half,

I'm like my skin is it starting to work to my benefit now

Hell that's not only good examples, it's actually all the examples from that very song.

And it had me wondering, I've heard a majority of people saying Eminem is the greatest rapper of all time, and while I'm one to agree, I don't think of it because of his skin color, I don't know about others although.
But is the fact that Eminem is considered one of the greatest rapper ever, the true background for his high record sales? or is his popularity highly regarded in the direction of his skin color, even though he's also often been dissed for "thinking he's black"
But then again, 2pac also sold many albums, a feature Eminem has just barely managed to surpass with the release of Relapse, so there you could argue that it can't possibly be because of the skin color, but I have to admit it still leaves me wondering.

Personally I love Eminem for his style, not because of his skin color, and I therefore think it's because of his style and lyrics.

What do you think? is Eminem's lyrics and his very versatile rapping style what gave him the success he has, or is it because of his skin color?

 

[Arkham Noir]

This is tricky.

I think they someone would have to be incredibly naive to say that his being white doesn't add to part of who he is and how he is perceived.For someone who is white to succed in a genre that is ,well, let's say not heavily populated by white people, is unique and attention grabbing for sure. It gives someone who is white and listens to rap music at least have someone they can call their own. There are some black people who don't like white boys invading rap music. I'd now, I was one of those white boys. But with Em, it allows it to be a little more acceptable.

To the original question, do I think it's responsable for his succes? No. I think it's a small part, but not that big to be significant. I'll compare it to wrestling two ways. I'd say the amount of people who listen to Eminem because he is white is probably equal to the amount of people who watch wrestling and are part of the IWC. Not that large really. And my other example would be that attracting intrest for simply being white woudn't really equate to albums sold because in wrestling, if something like that attracts intrest someone can simply tune in to Raw,Impact, or whatever to see it. But in music, someone would actually have to shell out money on a record. I don't think skin color would make that big a difference as a result.

I also think that the fact that Em is actually very creative and produces very good songs stands on it's own. If he wasn't that great and was succesful, I would believe his being white played a larger role. But he is good so I thinks it's" Lyrics and Style"

 

[Minor League Brian]

If you also listened to alot of his songs, you'd answer your own question. He had to go through alot to get to the point where he was seen as a great rap artists, just because of his skin. Now, any new and up coming Rap artists who's white is compared/contrasted against Em, not only because he's white but because the "standard" is held higher for them.

Not to mention, the fact that he's got balls of steel has helped him along the way.

 

[Ferbian]

If you also listened to alot of his songs, you'd answer your own question. He had to go through alot to get to the point where he was seen as a great rap artists, just because of his skin.

I've listened to all his songs, and yes I do know he had a rough time getting signed by anybody because of his skin color (sucks to be those labels huh?) and that was before his mainstream success, he was still underground back then, and when have we ever heard about anybody being successful when remaining underground, skin color or not?

Besides, I'm not in doubt of the question really, it's just a matter of perhaps seeing others views, as I'm pretty sure someone probably once wondered the same as me.

Not to mention, the fact that he's got balls of steel has helped him along the way.

Balls of steel I have my doubts is the true reason why people got behind him, unless you're counting the fact that he had the guts to tell it as he sees it, and to clearly surpass the boundaries of censor.

I read some of the critical reviews of Relapse today, seeing someone actually going as far as to say "this is not a Slim Shady album, Slim Shady had a bright side to him".. certainly shows that he'll go far to put out music, and I think Relapse was some of his lyrically greatest work ever (especially "Stay Wide Awake" and "Underground"), another reason why I really have my doubts it's about the skin color, but again, it's my opinion, keep spreading yours.

 

[Minor League Brian]

I've listened to all his songs, and yes I do know he had a rough time getting signed by anybody because of his skin color (sucks to be those labels huh?) and that was before his mainstream success, he was still underground back then, and when have we ever heard about anybody being successful when remaining underground, skin color or not?

You gotta go through that to get to the "big show". At least, back in the day you did. Now you just gotta look good and know how to work Autotune and you can be a mainstream rapper, doesn't take much skill now.

Balls of steel I have my doubts is the true reason why people got behind him, unless you're counting the fact that he had the guts to tell it as he sees it, and to clearly surpass the boundaries of censor.

Yeah, the guts bit is what I meant. Anyone willing to put out a mainstream song talkin' about shooting his GF has got some balls

I read some of the critical reviews of Relapse today, seeing someone actually going as far as to say "this is not a Slim Shady album, Slim Shady had a bright side to him".. certainly shows that he'll go far to put out music, and I think Relapse was some of his lyrically greatest work ever (especially "Stay Wide Awake" and "Underground"), another reason why I really have my doubts it's about the skin color, but again, it's my opinion, keep spreading yours.

I don't know what they mean a "bright side". Shady has always been dark and twisted. The closest thing I've seen to "bright" was Sing For The Moment. Basically I think his skin color hurt him in the beginning, now it doesn't matter but his skin color hurts any other white rapper coming up because they just can't match up to him.

 

[Ferbian]

You gotta go through that to get to the "big show". At least, back in the day you did. Now you just gotta look good and know how to work Autotune and you can be a mainstream rapper, doesn't take much skill now.

I can't exactly say I know of any rappers in the autotune category, but hell I haven't truly listened to mainstream radio or MTV etc. in about a few years, so I only know of those who actually know what in the world they're doing, and doing good at it.

Yeah, the guts bit is what I meant. Anyone willing to put out a mainstream song talkin' about shooting his GF has got some balls

Shooting his girlfriend? mainstream song? which one are we talking about? Stan or Cleaning out my closet? only two songs I can really remember that came out as singles (which would to me be considered the proper mainstream section) that really involved any kind of killing references?

I don't know what they mean a "bright side". Shady has always been dark and twisted. The closest thing I've seen to "bright" was Sing For The Moment.

Slim Shady had some hilarious sides like in the song "Without me" singing

Then a shock when I get shocked at the hospital
By the doctor when I'm not cooperating
When I'm rockin' the table while he's operating

That has me legitimately laughing out loud every time, so clearly that I've stopped listening to it in public..

The "old" Slim Shady had some shockers, some small "HAHA" moments, as opposed to what Relapse truly had, it focused a lot on his demons and such, and it's quite clear in songs like "3 AM" and "Same song and dance", and of course the accent is different, could very well be something more than a slim shady rebirth, but more in the direction of a new slim shady like persona?

Basically I think his skin color hurt him in the beginning, now it doesn't matter but his skin color hurts any other white rapper coming up because they just can't match up to him.

It might have, but then again the Slim Shady LP sold like crazy, and I wouldn't exactly say that every white rapper to emerge is instantly compared to Eminem, seeing as probably everybody is compared to Eminem, or 2pac, or Biggie Smalls, who knows who they're compared to, but really saying every white emerging rapper is compared to Eminem is like saying people began comparing guys like The Game, 50 Cent etc. to 2pac, and that it would've hurt them too cause they didn't match, and looking at the record sales, I'd say those two have done immensely well.

 

[antfarm612]

It's the same as anything else. Some people actually listen to his music and like it, some like him because he's white and mainstream.

 

[Minor League Brian]

Shooting his girlfriend? mainstream song? which one are we talking about? Stan or Cleaning out my closet? only two songs I can really remember that came out as singles (which would to me be considered the proper mainstream section) that really involved any kind of killing references?

What I did was stupid no doubt it was dumb
But the smartest shit I did was take the bullets out of that gun
Cuz I would have killed them
Shit I would have shot kim n them both
It's my life I'd like to welcome ya'll
To The Eminem Show.

Aye, Cleaning Out My Closet. It was pretty mainstream, as it was played everywhere for awhile.

The "old" Slim Shady had some shockers, some small "HAHA" moments, as opposed to what Relapse truly had, it focused a lot on his demons and such, and it's quite clear in songs like "3 AM" and "Same song and dance", and of course the accent is different, could very well be something more than a slim shady rebirth, but more in the direction of a new slim shady like persona?

I'd still go as far to say those were twisted songs. Only time he's really positive or "light" is when he's rapping for Haley, and that's understandable.

It might have, but then again the Slim Shady LP sold like crazy, and I wouldn't exactly say that every white rapper to emerge is instantly compared to Eminem, seeing as probably everybody is compared to Eminem, or 2pac, or Biggie Smalls, who knows who they're compared to, but really saying every white emerging rapper is compared to Eminem is like saying people began comparing guys like The Game, 50 Cent etc. to 2pac, and that it would've hurt them too cause they didn't match, and looking at the record sales, I'd say those two have done immensely well.

I might get pegged a racist here, but the honest truth is it didn't hurt them because their black. Its hard to picture a white guy actually successfully rapping because most rap is about being a gangster, fucking women, doing crazy shit. 2pac and Biggie were great, but some of their shit still follows that ideology. We all know that's all 50 really goes after, while Em kinda jumps into it from time to time. The fact that he is a genius with words is what really saves him.

But that's more image then anything, the fact no white guy coming out is going to look the part because of our stereotypical view on who/what they are and not many people in the world (white, brown, black, purple, whatever you want) are going to be able to save themselves because not many people in the world are as lyrically able as Eminem is.

 

[Ferbian]

Aye, Cleaning Out My Closet. It was pretty mainstream, as it was played everywhere for awhile.

Indeed it was very mainstream, it was one of my favorite Eminem songs for a period of time when I didn't own his albums just yet (I was a late buyer, I was a fan for a long time, yet I never pulled myself together to buy his albums until the release of "Eminem represents: The Re-up")

I'd still go as far to say those were twisted songs. Only time he's really positive or "light" is when he's rapping for Haley, and that's understandable.

That's your opinion to consider them twisted songs, while you cannot deny the fact that Eminem has entertaining lyrics in songs like "The Real Slim Shady" and "Without Me" as opposed to the insanity that he provided with Relapse.
Although I do agree I can't truly come up with any "really positive" songs from Eminem rather than his songs to Hallie, yet even those songs has it's "darker" moments like When I'm gone with this part:

It's no wonder you can't go to sleep, just take another pill
Yeah, I bet you you will. You rap about it, yeah, word, k-keep it real
I hear applause, all this time I couldn't see
How could it be, that the curtain is closing on me
I turn around, find a gun on the ground, cock it
Put it to my brain and scream "die Shady" and pop it

I might get pegged a racist here, but the honest truth is it didn't hurt them because their black. Its hard to picture a white guy actually successfully rapping because most rap is about being a gangster, fucking women, doing crazy shit. 2pac and Biggie were great, but some of their shit still follows that ideology. We all know that's all 50 really goes after, while Em kinda jumps into it from time to time. The fact that he is a genius with words is what really saves him.

And some of Eminem's ideology follows the whole Gangster, fucking women and taking drugs, the majority of his Slim Shady album features him talking about drugs, Ass like that has the women focus, and Soldier has an direct approach to the gangster / thug thing:

Yo', never was a thug, just infatuated with guns,
never was a gangsta, 'til I graduated to one,
and got the rep of a villain, for weapon concealin',
took the image of a thug,

And certainly I agree, Eminem's ability to play with words is a major part of his success, but we can't deny the fact that some people only listening to the music might consider him black, he's been dissed for people saying "oh but he just thinks he's black" and Dr. Dre admitted that the first time he heard Eminem he thought it was a black guy.

But that's more image then anything, the fact no white guy coming out is going to look the part because of our stereotypical view on who/what they are and not many people in the world (white, brown, black, purple, whatever you want) are going to be able to save themselves because not many people in the world are as lyrically able as Eminem is.

That's very true, Eminem has the accomplishments and awards to prove that he's at the top of his game, and is considered one of the greatest of all time, often coming in as number 1 or number 2 in "Greatest Rapper / MC of all time" as number one, or second to 2pac, which is still a feature considering the immense talent that 2pac had.

 

[BlackIce]

i agree with the intial poster. eminem is a wonderfull lyricalist. Its sad that people try to conclude that hiphop and etc is only associated to black people. Which is by all means, a no. Music is a universal uniting force, it shouldnt be contained to a certain race. Eminem is one of the few artist that stay legit and true his lyrics through the times of hardship into the economy. Rappers kinda resort to rapping about money cars sex just for the public eye, and moneytary gain.

 

[Freddy4190]

The first time I heard Eminem I thought he was black. I got into him because of his lyrical talent, only a while later did I find out he was white, I thought that was cool, I liked him more. Dude had to struggle to make it just like every other rapper did. He went underground, he struggled to get a deal, he struggled to get his mixtapes and shit out. Being white did help him though, but it held him back just as much. No one looked at this little blonde haired white boy and thought he could do anything, they kept thinking Vanilla Ice. He pretty much made it impossible for any white dude to succeed in the rap world. Eminem not only broke that barrier, he fucking shattered it beyond expectation. People nowadays, I believe; don't look at him as white or black. They look at him, respect him as one of the greatest rappers to ever pick up a microphone. The man is undeniably one of the greatest rappers in the history of the genre, and I think when the day comes that he leaves the earth, yeah. He'll be remembered as such, not 'that white dude who was a good rapper.'

 

[Ty Burna]

While I'm not a fan of Eminem, I do respect the work the man has put into to reach this level in the hip hop game. The biggest thing is hip hop's biggest audience is suburban white kids who grew up middle class. Now taking that into consideration, Eminem clearly has the image that appeals to this audience in a big way. So what I'm trying to get at, is that it's partially his talent, it's also partially his image/skin tone whatever way you want to look at it.

Eminem's got ability on the mic, especially looking back at his old work you could see that his punchlines and lyrics were outstanding. His lyrics and his music really became an angry outlet for the suburban white kids, and they ate it up big time. Is it Em's fault he's a white boy who just so happens to be a very good rapper? No not really, but it definitely doesn't hurt his sales. I'm trying to avoid being racist in this response, considering I am white myself, but I think Em being white gave him easier access to connect with the suburbanites that incorporate a huge part of hip hop's fans. Eminem talked about daily struggles and situations that someone in that area of the world could relate to. That same person is going to have a very difficult time relating to say Too $hort rapping about pimping and slanging drugs.

So to sum it up, Eminem being white made things easier to connect with fans, but it also required the skills that he has as a rapper to reach the point that he is at now. I mean just because a rapper is white does not mean he is going to connect with fans very easily. He has to have the ability to make good music, and lyrical content that allows those fans to relate to his music. Otherwise Vanilla Ice should be considered the second best rapper int he world if it was all skin tone.