ECW Title's Prestige Discussion | WrestleZone Forums

ECW Title's Prestige Discussion

freaky107

Complete Awesomeness
When ECW came back under the control of Vince McMahon, the ECW championship was considered almost as important as the WHC and WWE titles. When people like Bobby Lashley (which i no not mant people on this site don't like, but quite honestly, i was a fan), CM punk, and Chavo Gurerro (when he was actually promoted as the great wrestler that he is) and others were holding the title. It was something that alot of people cared about.

Look at it now. It is classified as a 'glorified mid card title' by many people, and most of the fans couldn't care less about it. This is just my opinion. Feel free to debate it, just don't bash the thread.

So i have two questions for you. When would you say the downfall of the ECW title was? and How do you think WWE could make it important to the fans again?
 
The downfall of the ECW title was with Bobby Lashley, because that was the first "test run" champion. If they had kept the title on him instead of having Vince win it, and then switch it back just for him to go to Raw, then it could have worked. Imagine Lashley keeping the ECW title for the better part of a year, feuding with legitimate main event talent like how he had won it from Big Show. Then, the ECW title would have recovered from putting it on Lashley in the first place.

After that, Benoit's situation put a major dent in the ECW title's credibility. I love Morrison. I think he's great, and I want him to be a world champion very soon. I also loved his ECW title reign. But in all honesty, Johnny Nitro was a midcarder, so when he won the ECW title, it demoted the championship's status.

CM Punk kept it at the same level as Nitro's reign, but then he lost it to Chavo, a jobber, which of course was a HUGE dent into it - especially when he was in the Royal Rumble and they basically said the ECW title is on par with the US and IC belts.

Kane was a step up. He's a former world champ (barely) and an established main event talent.

Mark Henry made sense. Established main event talent, though a jobber to the stars for the most part. Still, he had a good reign.

Matt, it made sense, but at the same time, he had just come off a terrible US title reign, so that was more of a 50/50 situation.

Swagger, midcard. Doesn't help the ECW title look legit.

Christian, step up.

Dreamer, step down since he jobbed out so much.

If the ECW title wants world title credibility, it needs to be surrounded by world title competitors, which isn't what the ECW brand is about, so it won't be happening any time soon.
 
What do you think of Triple H winning the ECW Title?? What would that do for ECW?? Would the run be reminiscent of Hunter’s European and Intercontinental Title runs, or more like Triple H’s WWE and World Title runs?? I’ve got no point. I’m just saying.
 
It was when Morrison won the belt. They've had poor champions since. With the expection of kane and Mark Henry.

Benoit would've elevated Punk. Instead we got one wrestler who looked underqualified to hold the belt against somebody who hadn't been elevated enough to challenge for it.
 
Ok well this is the thing... Yeah the ecw title meant something since RVD, Big Show and Lashley all held the title.. Yes, Beniot's tradegy did put a dark cloud over the title.. Now here's what I disagree with... When Morrison came out to face Punk to replace Benoit and won the title everyone was like wtf this kids a midcarder and he doesn't deserve it.. And now many feel like he brought the meaning of the title down to another level.. But I disagree.. I think morrison wasn't ready but then proved in his matches with punk and others that he deserved that title.. He approved a lot since winning that title.. Punk also showed he deserved that title... Now here is what ruined the title...

CHAVO...

I love chavo as a wrestler and just wish he could get over with the crowd but he can't.. But it sucked when they took this joober made him beat cm punk then entered the royal rumber as champion (world and heavyweight champ would never do that) and then at wrestle mania lost the title in what? 3 seconds? Yeah that's really gonna make the title look good...
Kane helped alittle but I believe the title meaning something happened once Mark Henry won the championship.. Once he won it people were disappointed and was wondering what's gonna happen as this guy has the title... Then he had a long yet very interesting fued with Matt Hardy.. Then Hardy won the title and kept the meaning up by defending it a lot and then lost it to a new comer named jack swagger who became a very good wrestler proved himself and put on a great fued with christian... Now I said all of this because if you really think bout it this title isn't a midcard title no more... Its a pushing title... And it has pushed some good wrestles to improve and that's what ecw itself is about... Chavo might of ruined the title but the others that followed did a great job at bringing it back up to a top title..
 
What did you expect? ECW was destined to be a second rate show as far as talent went. Notice that they dropped the World aspect from it. ECW was brought back to make an initial splash and then to become the AAA show where young guys could get on TV. Look at the roster moves and tell me that's not exactly what happened. Even If Benoit had been around that's what would have happened. He would have been around for a few months and then gone back to one of the big shows when he was needed. The title has fallen as it's now the championship of the third show. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but this was always going ot be the case.
 
i have the answer for this its because the ecw title is silver not gold if the ecw title was gold it would be a world title but instead its a pussy aluminum title for superstars that cant win a real world belt so if the wwe ever turns the belt golden then all the real good wrestlers will want to win it and all the bad wrestlers like christian and matt hardy and mark henry and jack swagger and rob van damn and lashley and tommy dreamer and chavo gurerrero and cm punk and jonny nitro and kane will not win it anymore if its gold.
 
i have the answer for this its because the ecw title is silver not gold if the ecw title was gold it would be a world title but instead its a pussy aluminum title for superstars that cant win a real world belt so if the wwe ever turns the belt golden then all the real good wrestlers will want to win it and all the bad wrestlers like christian and matt hardy and mark henry and jack swagger and rob van damn and lashley and tommy dreamer and chavo gurerrero and cm punk and jonny nitro and kane will not win it anymore if its gold.

Do not tell me you think the reason why wrestlers won't want to win the ECW Title is because it's not gold? What happened to the title has nothing to do with whether its silver or gold. It was meant to be the third most important title in the WWE and it is doing just that. It wasn't just going to all of a sudden be more important than the WWE or WHC title no matter who holds it. Bobby Lashley didn't do any wonders for it, nor did Chavo, Kane, or Matt Hardy. ECW is mainly a developmental show and it will stay just that.
 
Do not tell me you think the reason why wrestlers won't want to win the ECW Title is because it's not gold? What happened to the title has nothing to do with whether its silver or gold. It was meant to be the third most important title in the WWE and it is doing just that. It wasn't just going to all of a sudden be more important than the WWE or WHC title no matter who holds it. Bobby Lashley didn't do any wonders for it, nor did Chavo, Kane, or Matt Hardy. ECW is mainly a developmental show and it will stay just that.

You are right. It was, is and always will be the Bronze medal, regardless if it’s actually Silver, Gold or Platinum. I’ve said this before, the ECW Title today, in the WWE, is essentially today’s version of the European Title, a.k.a. 3rd place.
 
The ECW title will never be the same PERIOD!!!!
No matter what anyone else say's the title wasnt the same from the moment Vince Bought ECW and never will be again.
The should just call ECE what it really is, WCW!!
Think about it, where did most of WWE'S Main Event Talent come from?
 
ECW has been dead and buried since 2001. They tried to revive it in 2005 and 2006 with One Night Stand but Vince just doesn't give a damn about ECW or WCW so he buried it for good. After Big Show won the belt and RVD was let go after becoming champion that was pretty much the death of ECW as we know it. It should be called FCW instead.
 
ECW has been dead and buried since 2001. They tried to revive it in 2005 and 2006 with One Night Stand but Vince just doesn't give a damn about ECW or WCW so he buried it for good. After Big Show won the belt and RVD was let go after becoming champion that was pretty much the death of ECW as we know it. It should be called FCW instead.

Clearly you don't understand the term "bury" than. I'm pretty sure if Vince wanted to bury ECW, he just wouldn't have ever revived it in the first place. How exactly is starting an entire brand around a past promotion's history considered "burying" it? You don't see WCW on Sci Fi now do you?

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand what "burying" something is. A whole new brand, merchandise, ECW DVDs...these are the exact opposite of burying something.
 
Allow me to retort. Vince may not have "buried" ECW but he changed it into his vision and got rid of all the ECW originals except for Tommy Dreamer. The new ECW is alive and kicking but the old ECW and it's stars that the fans remember are dead and buried. At least you can buy a DVD about the History of ECW but the former product itself is dead. Don't even try to compare the two.
 
This new ECW wasn't meant to be like the old one in the first place. Vince knew that and he tried to make it the way he wanted it. The only original that was worth a damn was RVD and the rest were just jobbers who didn't have an impact in the new ECW and were released.
 
Allow me to retort. Vince may not have "buried" ECW but he changed it into his vision and got rid of all the ECW originals except for Tommy Dreamer. The new ECW is alive and kicking but the old ECW and it's stars that the fans remember are dead and buried. At least you can buy a DVD about the History of ECW but the former product itself is dead. Don't even try to compare the two.

ECW was always a developmental farm for the big leagues, it never was anything special apart from what ECW die hards perceived of it, The ECW title was never on par with the WWE or WCW championships because you had people carrying the belt who wouldn't work in any of the major promotions period!.

Paul Heyman managed to create an aura around ECW talent which made them appealing to the big league promotions but what he didn't do is allow his talent to grow and actually work on their fundementals, look at guys like sandman who cant wrestle he was made famous by his entertaining entrance and the fact he beat the hell out of other talent, Sabu the human spot monkey, Rob Van Damn the guy who felt he was bigger then any promotion on the planet, but the thing that made Rob different then any ECW talent is that he had main event appeal, he made the ECW tv title in to a main event title because he always managed to put on classic title matches and made people actually care about the title and Rob Van Damn as i said it before its not the title that makes you, its you that makes the title, Vince Mcmahon actually elevated the new ECW championship because he made the title look good, he was a classic heel and people hated the fact that he had the belt and wanted to see him beat, do IMO Lashley only got over because of Vince period!.

Secondly look at the financial history, Paul Heyman's ECW made money, but Paul pissed it all away, WWEECW makes money for the talent, the roster the product and overall is making a profit, Scyfy is paying the WWE for the show, Paul was Paying TNN, so IMO todays ECW title means more then it did when the company was run by Heyman the fact that IWC fans are still pissed need to get over themselves, the product is doing better then it ever did because of Vince he took the brand national and Heyman hates the fact that Vince did what he never could do and the title to me is on par with both main event belts because it still holds weight and whomever challenges for it still becomes credible enough to move to the main rosters.

Its not about the title, its about who wears it which gives it credibility which Dreamer, Christian and even swagger did, CM Punk became a world champ because of ECW, we actually have people who wrestle because of ECW which before didn't happen.
 
Do not tell me you think the reason why wrestlers won't want to win the ECW Title is because it's not gold? What happened to the title has nothing to do with whether its silver or gold. It was meant to be the third most important title in the WWE and it is doing just that. It wasn't just going to all of a sudden be more important than the WWE or WHC title no matter who holds it. Bobby Lashley didn't do any wonders for it, nor did Chavo, Kane, or Matt Hardy. ECW is mainly a developmental show and it will stay just that.

Exactly. The show is basically a developmental show. True, there are a few bigger names that have passed through, but it's meant to showcase the younger up and comers. I think when they relaunched ecw the plans were different(rvd winning the wwe title and the ecw belt), but over time its become a show for midcarders or guys making their debuts. So, the title is a mid card title as it should be. I dont think they even refer to it as a world championship anymore, just as the ecw title.
 
ECW was always a developmental farm for the big leagues, it never was anything special apart from what ECW die hards perceived of it, The ECW title was never on par with the WWE or WCW championships because you had people carrying the belt who wouldn't work in any of the major promotions period!.

If it wasn't for ECW, there wouldn't have been the "attitude era" in WWE. ECW's ideas were stolen and used as WWE's own. ECW was a great promotion. Former ECW champions Taz, RVD, Raven, Sandman, Sabu, Dreamer, Rhyno, Mike Awesome, even Mikey Whipwreck worked for WWE or WCW at some point so you're off base there. ECW did things that the other promotions at the time never dreamed of doing. One of the most innovative promotions ever. You are totally wrong when you say it was nothing special.
Paul Heyman managed to create an aura around ECW talent which made them appealing to the big league promotions but what he didn't do is allow his talent to grow and actually work on their fundementals, look at guys like sandman who cant wrestle he was made famous by his entertaining entrance and the fact he beat the hell out of other talent, Sabu the human spot monkey, Rob Van Damn the guy who felt he was bigger then any promotion on the planet, but the thing that made Rob different then any ECW talent is that he had main event appeal, he made the ECW tv title in to a main event title because he always managed to put on classic title matches and made people actually care about the title and Rob Van Damn as i said it before its not the title that makes you, its you that makes the title, Vince Mcmahon actually elevated the new ECW championship because he made the title look good, he was a classic heel and people hated the fact that he had the belt and wanted to see him beat, do IMO Lashley only got over because of Vince period!.

WWE, TNA and when it existed WCW created an aura around their talents to make them appealing. Thats part of the business. I'm pretty sure guys that have made it to tv in WWE aren't working on their fundamentals everyday. They probably have already been trained so i don't know what that has to do with the ecw title being a midcard title. Vince destroyed the title. Anytime a non-wrestler wins a title it devalues it. Period. I don't really remember Lashley ever really getting over. The champion does make the title in a lot of instances but, how they are booked while holding it makes the most difference.

Secondly look at the financial history, Paul Heyman's ECW made money, but Paul pissed it all away, WWEECW makes money for the talent, the roster the product and overall is making a profit, Scyfy is paying the WWE for the show, Paul was Paying TNN, so IMO todays ECW title means more then it did when the company was run by Heyman the fact that IWC fans are still pissed need to get over themselves, the product is doing better then it ever did because of Vince he took the brand national and Heyman hates the fact that Vince did what he never could do and the title to me is on par with both main event belts because it still holds weight and whomever challenges for it still becomes credible enough to move to the main rosters.

What does the financial history of ecw have to do with the prestige of the title in its current state? Nothing. Vince destroyed the idea of what ecw was. It's a completely different product and they can't be compared. The real ecw was more than hardcore matches, more than the blood and gore. There were great matches that didn't involve tables or weapons. The angles booked in ECW were original and unique at the time. Theyve been copied numerous times since. The current incarnation of the brand is 180 degrees from the original. The show is a developmental show. It where guys get started or go to revive their character. It's nothing more than that, so, the title is nothing more than it is. And, yeah, whoever gets the ecw belt is sure to move to the main roster, you're right, as a mid carder. The title isn't close to being on par with the WHC or WWE belt.

Its not about the title, its about who wears it which gives it credibility which Dreamer, Christian and even swagger did, CM Punk became a world champ because of ECW, we actually have people who wrestle because of ECW which before didn't happen.

Who wears the belt has a lot to do with the prestige of the title, that's true. But, the fact that the brand is filled with mid card talent is a factor in why it's viewed as a mid card title. Im sorry but christian, dreamer, koslov, regal, etc. will more than likely be midcard or lower for their careers. Christian may rise to main event status but probably not. CM Punk is a world champ because he has charisma, is good in the ring, won't violate the wellness policy, and had a following before he ever stepped foot in a wwe ring. His ECW reign was like him being IC champion or something. Not quite the same as the WWE or WHC titles.
 
The downfall: Chavo. Chavo's great, awesome wrestler, extremly under-rated. WWE killed the Guerrero name by emabarrasing Vickie and Chavo. Well Punk, Morrison, and lashley who a lot were blaming all did a very good job as champ IMO, but Chavo was the icing on the cake on the death of the ECW title. Chavo as we all know, had jobbed for years before he won the ECW title. So it's almost like Jamie Noble winning the WWE title. And than he enters the rumble?!?!? WTH! At that moment we all knew the ECW title was no longer a world title.

The recovery: Bring more established superstars to ECW. Let's face it, Dreamer isn't very good without gimmick matches. And Christian can only do so much with such a limited roster. And Koslov is just crap. Regal is awesome but no one cares about him enough to make him a top guy EVEN on ECW. And since Extreme Championship Wrestling is dead, why not bring in guys like Mysterio, Big Show, Batista, etc. Main eventers who aren't doing much, I know that Mysterio has a feud going on with Ziggler, and Show is screwing around with guys half his height, but there no Triple H or John Cena, so why not put them on ECW just to build the show up. Christian vs. Mysterio for the ECW title would kick total ass IMO.
 
Who wears the belt has a lot to do with the prestige of the title, that's true. But, the fact that the brand is filled with mid card talent is a factor in why it's viewed as a mid card title. Im sorry but christian, dreamer, koslov, regal, etc. will more than likely be midcard or lower for their careers. Christian may rise to main event status but probably not. CM Punk is a world champ because he has charisma, is good in the ring, won't violate the wellness policy, and had a following before he ever stepped foot in a wwe ring. His ECW reign was like him being IC champion or something. Not quite the same as the WWE or WHC titles.

was the title ever on par?, would you call the sandman's reign a prestigious one?, was the Reign Raven had prestigious?, there is not one name in the Old ECW that didn't come to the WWE or WCW that had a mainstream ECW reign that anyone would call prestigious because the fact is no one was able to cut it apart from guys like Van Dam, Dreamer or maybe raven but the fact is no one out of the original ECW actually got over apart from the two just mentioned due to the fact that they never had anything special apart from what heyman wanted us to see, the ECW title had no prestige before it came to the WWE and the only time it did was because of Mcmahon, show and the guys who carried that belt as though it was main stream.
 
Christian may rise to main event status but probably not. CM Punk is a world champ because he has charisma, is good in the ring, won't violate the wellness policy, and had a following before he ever stepped foot in a wwe ring. His ECW reign was like him being IC champion or something. Not quite the same as the WWE or WHC titles.

Excuse me, but CM Punk is world champ because he is charasmatic, good in the ring, and won't break the wellness policy but Christian won't be in the main event picture?... WTF! CHRISTIAN HAS ALL OF THOSE QUALITIES! Charisma: HELLO HE'S CAPTAIN CHARISMA FOR GODS SAKE!, good ring work: the man stole the show two years in a row at Wrestlemania 16 and 17! Wellness policy: I don't remember Christian ever breaking the wellness policy! SHUT UP YOUR FACE!

BITCH! PEEP LIFE, THIS IS BASIC PEEP-O-NOMICS!
 
Excuse me, but CM Punk is world champ because he is charasmatic, good in the ring, and won't break the wellness policy but Christian won't be in the main event picture?... WTF!

Well yeah it's pretty common knowledge that Vince doesn't see ME potential in Christian, so yeah...

CHRISTIAN HAS ALL OF THOSE QUALITIES! Charisma: HELLO HE'S CAPTAIN CHARISMA FOR GODS SAKE!, good ring work: the man stole the show two years in a row at Wrestlemania 16 and 17! Wellness policy: I don't remember Christian ever breaking the wellness policy! SHUT UP YOUR FACE!

:lmao: he stole the show in two tag title ladder matches, WM16 he had the help of 5 other guys, and wm17 he had the help of 8 other people (counting the interferance of Lita, Rhino, and Spike), anyone with that much help is pretty much guaranteed to have a great match

CM Punk is far and away a much better talent than Christian, plus Punk has yet to leave the WWE for the competition
 
We all know the ECW title is the 3rd tier title in WWE. Some people would say it's below the IC Championship. Either way you look at it, I have to ask:

Who do you feel credits well off of holding the ECW Championship (since it's return in 2006)/Who made the ECW title look legit and who benefits from holding the title, in regards to fame?

You go down the laundry list of WWE superstars that held the belt since the title came back into the picture, but most of the men that have held the belt have been only around the mid-card area and 80% of the men that have held it hasn't really prospered from getting bigger and better shots and other big time championships.

RVD - gave the title a little bit more meaning when it was brought back knowing how everyone knows he's an ECW guy. Putting the title around him while he carries around the WWE Championship made the ECW title (and name) look a bit more prestigious.

Bobby Lashley - he gave a different look when he won the ECW title. Probably the biggest, well toned guy to hold the belt. This dude was jacked. When he broke out of the cage and hit Umaga, that made me go...OH REALLY...being ECW Champion is like that? Surprised the hell out of me. Wouldn't have expected a stunt like that. Although being that he was a WWE guy, he gotten some shit from the original ECW fans, but I felt, to a limited extent, he carried the belt well for the size of the person he was and made it seem like no one, who doesn't have the same build as him, can wear the belt. For the size of the individual, I think Bobby Lashley benefitted from both of the ECW title reigns. I think his reigns were clustered though being the person who 1st beat Lashley was Mr. McMahon. Such horse shit.

Christian - We all know Christian is not the most built guy, the most athletic, or the fastest, but after at the NOC win against Tommy Dreamer, things can only go up from here with Christian. He's the top face of the ECW brand and he has held the title twice now. After his next loss, bring him to SD! and get involved with a title that has more of a claim to fame than the ECW title. Christian is indeed a credible champion. A person who has lots of talent, who's the top face of ECW can probably move to another show and get the same or even a bigger reaction in trying to compete for a bigger title. Christian is a very talented individual and he's someone that should have been pushed a long time ago.


These are the people that I think made the ECW title look credible for the titles sake and for the wrestlers sake. What do you think?
 
Yeah, but you got to think of it this way. How many main eventers are there in ECW? The championship has changed into a championship for people looking to prove themselves as the biggest person on ECW. And since ECW is now a training brand for people, I feel that the title represents the smartest person in the class (metaphorically speeking). You may not feel that it is the 3rd most important title because of the intercontinental and stuff. But look at how many people who have held the title and gone onto greater things:
John Morrison, now having matches at main event level on SD!
CM Punk, now the World Heavyweight Champion and two time, MitB winner.
Swagger, is now on Monday nights, and I'm sure he will benefit in the future.

I admit that not everyone has been so benefitted by the title, but most of those people have already made a name for themselves so it wouldn't make much sense their career extending because of it. They give the title to already named superstars so that they can have someone young and new come in and make a name for themselves.
Think of it this way:

McMahon held it so it made Lashley look good in the end of their feud.
CM Punk and Morrison held it and fueded together to help each other out.
Chavo held to further extend making CM Punk look good.
Kane? (Well that was just fun when he beat Chavo in 12 seconds).
Mark Henry held it to make Matt Hardy look cool.
Swagger made his own way with it, not really having a big guy help him.
At the moment, I believe Dreamer is helping out Christain and then mabye someone else.

To some up what I'm saying, yes the ICNTL and US represent to difference between mid-card and main event. But the ECW championship represents the difference between a small show like ECW into being ready for one of the big two (SD! and RAW)...

This is just really my opinion, so if you disagree, fair enough. But these are the reasons why I believe this title is the 3rd most important in the WWE.
 
i think its more meant for up in comers to prove they belong in wwe nd worthy of being midcarders. someone like matt hardy, mark henry, dreamer nd christian have all been around to long nd are more worthy then that tittle. imo those guys having that tittle is a step back. guys like kozlov, ryder, shamous, tyler recks nd ezekiel should all be feuding for that tittle untill they get drafted nd by that point will be worhty to be i.c. or u.s. champ. good examples are punk, swagger nd morrison. those 3 guys all made that betl worth something for younger talent nd now all have good carrers a head of them
 
I’m sorry… I’m going to make a lot of people angry at this, but I have to say it… I have to! I’m old skool… I remember growing up in Brooklyn, we had channel 52 on public access. ECW would run straight from the Bingo Hall in Philly (the REAL ECW arena) I followed them from public TV, to underground (DVD only), to CMT, to TNN, to now… What you see now… this is s**t! It’s not even 1/3rd of what ECW was. Vince destroys what he doesn’t create. How many “ECW originals” are left? He got rid of the logo, the music, the colors… he even got rid of the camera crew… seriously! Everything is WWE. Tommy Dreamer is the only thing left. ECW is nothing more than a DV fed. Nothing will bring credibilty to the belt... it's not the real belt... it's not the real fed... that’s it.

Please… don’t be offended by this, ECW is good if you like that sort of thing, ECW will be credible if Stephanie wants that for her birthday…
 

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