ECW... Is there a curse?

[JoshK1985]

Ok. This thread sounds werid I know. But lets take a second and think about all the guys who were in ECW that have died. I mean both The Pitbulls, Public Enemy, Louie Spicoli, Brian Pillman (he wasn't there long but it counts), Chris Benoit, Bam Bam, Mike Awesome, John Kronus, and Chris Candido, Eddie Gilbert and Eddy Guerreo... I may be missing some but that's all beside the point. ECW wasn't around all that long and for the many wrestlers to be deceased is crazy.. Do you guys think there is a curse or do you think it was a cesspool for guys who made bad decsions?

 

[R G]

That's alot of names.

I don't think there's a quote on quote "curse" with ECW stars, its just that they literally put their body on the line every week, weren't paid that much, and a bunch of the guys you mentioned were exclusivley ECW stars. Once they all got laid off, most had nothing. And the wear and tear on their bodies is unbelievable. I was able to talk to the Sandman before, and he said during his stay in ECW, from 1995-2001, he broke 22 bones. 22 freekin bones is riduclous in a lifetime, let alone a six year spand. ECW was crazy, i bet a few of those guys were nut cases as well.

So no, i don't think there is a curse, but ECW has a lot to do with these guys dying.

 

[Slyfox696]

The Pitbulls, - Drug Users
Public Enemy - Drug Users
Louie Spicoli - Drug User
Brian Pillman (he wasn't there long but it counts) - Drug User
Chris Benoit - Drug User
Bam Bam - Drug User
Mike Awesome - Drug User
John Kronus - Who is this?
Chris Candido - Freak accident
Eddie Gilbert - Drug User
Eddy Guerreo - Drug User


And people criticize me when I said that ECW was nothing more than a bingo hall full of drug users...

The fact is that ECW is not the reason these guys died. It's the fact that they put stuff into their bodies that was never meant to be in their bodies, and did it on a large scale.

 

[leifmozley1982]

ECW was a curse full stop. The vast majority of guys in that locker room (Benoit, Mysterio and Guerrerro excluded) didn't know a wristlock from a wrist watch. But thats not the debate. Drug use is widespread in pro wrestling anyway, it wasn't just an ECW problem. So i wouldnt call it an ECW curse, i would call it a pro wrestling problem.

 

[drmagic326]

Now i maybe wrong here but im pretty sure Brian Pillman only took pain killers because of his ankle that he injured badly in a car accident and the pain killers didnt result into his death

 

[BrooklynBuc]

To answer Slyfox, John Kronus teamed with Perry Saturn as the tag team The Eliminators in ECW in the mid 90's before Saturn went to WCW. He was a big guy who could do splits, wheel kicks and moonsaults, but never really went anywhere else after ECW disbanded.

As for the curse, drug use combined with the strenous activity that wrestling consists of is a bad combination, especially with a combo of steroids and stimulates like cocaine. I don't think ECW has a curse until the more established stars start having health problems. It seems like a lot of the mid-card guys except Mike Awesome (who became main event toward the end) had drug problems, while guys like Shane Douglas, Taz, Rob Van Dam, Tommy Dreamer and The Dudleys are so far OK. Maybe being in different federations helped them...

 

[JoshK1985]

I was able to talk to the Sandman before, and he said during his stay in ECW, from 1995-2001, he broke 22 bones. 22 freekin bones is riduclous in a lifetime, let alone a six year spand. ECW was crazy, i bet a few of those guys were nut cases as well.

Him breaking 22 bones in a 7 year time span is crazy! I mean if somone breaks 22 bones in 7 years the are getting prescribed pain killers out the ass and they is engouth to make someone become addicted to painkillers. I mean if you brake 22 bones some of them will bother you the rest of your life and your going to do something to numb that pain.

The Pitbulls, - Drug Users
Public Enemy - Drug Users
Louie Spicoli - Drug User
Brian Pillman (he wasn't there long but it counts) - Drug User
Chris Benoit - Drug User
Bam Bam - Drug User
Mike Awesome - Drug User
John Kronus - Who is this?
Chris Candido - Freak accident
Eddie Gilbert - Drug User
Eddy Guerreo - Drug User


And people criticize me when I said that ECW was nothing more than a bingo hall full of drug users...

I think thats a very strong statment and partially true and I'm an Orginal ECW mark.. But if that many guys pass away from a place that was only around for maybe 10 years thats crazy. It tells alot about the enviroment backstage and also tells you alot about the promoter who ran the place. I beleive Heyman would be like most promoters and turn away from the obvious drug use in his locker room. As long as he is making money he doesn't care. There his personal pawns in the world of wrestling. Plus you say Candido was a freak accident..It was but he was also a drug user, if memory serves me correct him and Tammy Lynn Sytch were both busted for posseion of cocaine at one time..

So i wouldnt call it an ECW curse, i would call it a pro wrestling problem.

It is a pro wrestling problem.. But thoes are alot of names from one place that wasn't around that long.. There was something up in that lockeroom.. That is just too much drug use and somone mentions that RVD isnt having drug problems.. Well him and Sabu were busted for marijuana.. Yeah not a big drug like coke or roids.. But it is still drugs.. Yes alot of wrestlers do drugs but when you think about it this is alot of guys from drug use.. Way too many.. It may not be a curse but the combonation of "Hardcore" wrestling and drugs is a fast killer it look like.


And people criticize me when I said that ECW was nothing more than a bingo hall full of drug users...

The fact is that ECW is not the reason these guys died. It's the fact that they put stuff into their bodies that was never meant to be in their bodies, and did it on a large scale.

 

[Shocky]

I'm not sure about the Pillman stuff. He shattered his ankle, literally just destroyed it, and got hooked on pain medication. I'm not sure about any recreational drug use though.

Alot of those guys are from the Tod Gordon era too, so I could see ECW just being one giant drug induced party, and it appears to be the truth.

It maybe a wrestling problem, but you have to put some of the blame on the companies for properly getting these guys the help and counseling they need.

 

[X]

Honestly it's pretty stupid IMO to be calling ECW a bingo hall full of drug users. Excuse me, but what wrestling promotion on this planet doesn't have a ridiculious amount of drug addicts? I can think of atleast 5 WWE guys that have been released this year because of drug addictions.

Drug addiction is rampant in the world, and especially in an industry like pro wrestling. We also need to remember many of those guys were in the early years of ECW when there was still alot of territories around and being a wrestler was still like being a rock star with all the women, booze and coke you could get your hands on.

I'm not saying ECW didn't have its drug users, it did. But so didn't WCW...and NWA...and the WWE....and the AWA....and SMW....and ROH....and TNA...you get the drift here?

 

[Shocky]

I'll stand by the Tod Gordon blast though. It was not meant to rip ECW as a whole on my end, but I think when Gordon was running the show, I think he didn't take the product as seriously, so the environment was more lax.

I would say when Paul E. Came in and became the sole person of power, the attitude changed in the company. I could be seeing things wrongly though I suppose.

 

[JoshK1985]

I could see Paul E. putting a good product out there but not caring what his guys did as long as the money was rolling in and the product was top of the line. I think Paul is one of the greatest wrestling minds ever in the business but at the same time he couldn't run the business side of it. With that side I think Paul could be at fault for all the drugs that were in ECW as much as Todd Gordon.. Also, Shock your right every promotion has a problem with drug use but ECW has had alot of alumni die in a very short span of 5 years.. It might just be conincdence but the facts are there...

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm not sure about the Pillman stuff. He shattered his ankle, literally just destroyed it, and got hooked on pain medication. I'm not sure about any recreational drug use though.

Pillman died from heart disease. Now, how does a 35 year old, former collegiate football player, with a body that clearly shows a dedicated workout regimen...die from heart disease?

It's called steroids.

Honestly it's pretty stupid IMO to be calling ECW a bingo hall full of drug users. Excuse me, but what wrestling promotion on this planet doesn't have a ridiculious amount of drug addicts? I can think of atleast 5 WWE guys that have been released this year because of drug addictions.

I'm not arguing that other promotions don't have their problems too. Hell, everyone by now knows that Hogan was sucking down steroids and cocaine back in the 80s. We know that Jake Roberts was on every illegal drug known to man. Etc. etc...

Doesn't change the fact that ECW was filled with a bunch of druggies.

 

[Shocky]

Pillman died from heart disease. Now, how does a 35 year old, former collegiate football player, with a body that clearly shows a dedicated workout regimen...die from heart disease?

It's called steroids.

The Pillman DVD also states that his father died at a young age do to heart failure if I remember right. I could be wrong, I haven't checked. So if there is a family history of it, then it is perfectly logical for him to die at 35.

 

[Da Vinci's Nightmare]

Its unfair to say that ECW was a curse.

Its unfair to pin the blame on one person for all the deaths of people who used to be in ECW

Its down to each individual person to take drugs, but as people say. peer pressure is a motherfucker, and people who do drugs are generally weak people.

Yes, drugs were rife in ECW and more than likely many many people were taking them back stage, and every1 turned a blind eye, but that wasn't ECW's fault.

SLyfox wasn't wrong when with the comment that ECW was a bingo hall full of druggies, because most of the time it was. but yet again, it wasnt ECW's fault, wasn't Paul E's fault, wasn't Todd Gordans fault, more often than not it was the individuals fault for doing them.

I have sympathy for pillman because he was on percribed drugs for his ankle, so it wasn't his fault as much for becoming hooked

 

[JoshK1985]

Da Vinci, your right it is each person's choice to do drugs or not. But ECW is a business and a business can't let there employees be on drugs. That is something they have to stop and take care of.

 

[Da Vinci's Nightmare]

Josh, thats true. ECW was a business, and they should have made sure people werent on drugs. but at that time, the rules werent enforced to the letter and alot of people have said that. But people can't blame ECW for these wrestlers dieing because of drugs. It went with the life style back then

 

[X]

Its down to each individual person to take drugs, but as people say. peer pressure is a motherfucker, and people who do drugs are generally weak people.

Now that's a very ignorant statement. Drug users contribute just as much to society as non-users. Every record you own, made by people on drugs. Almost every movie you've seen, made by people on drugs. Your favorite wrestlers? Most likely on drugs. There are good drugs that cause no harm to the body and is very therapeutic and used as medicines in the world(marijuana, mushrooms), and there are bad drugs that people OD on every 10 minutes(heroin, cocaine, steroids).

So, let's not make a rash statement when it's incredibly unfair and uneducated.

 

[justinsayne]

You know if you look at the list of names that were in ECW and have died, alot of those guys also went onto have careers with WWE and/or WCW, so does that make WWE and WCW cursed aswell, with that being said, it should also be taken into consideration that wrestlers are on the road 200-300 days a year, and constantly preforming and taking in alot of punishment to there bodies, eventually that is going to ware on you and shorten your life span, and whoever said people who do drugs are weak is, imo, a very close minded statement, alot of people are on drugs due to health conditions, I sure everybody on this forum knows somebody that relies on a drug to keep them alive, next time think you shit through more, and no I don't think there is an ECW curse, it just sounds like a way to blame a company that isn't even in business anymore, for the deaths of wrestlers

 

[LipstickAndBruises]

ECW cursed? Nah, not nearly.

I kinda look at the wrestling profession as a distant cousin to the rockstar / musician profession, same type of routine and alot of partying goes on because...it just does. But people choose to use / abuse drugs. They don't have to snort lines / eat roids / whatever...they do it because they want to. The original ECW didnt have assloads of money to throw around drug testing everyone every 10 seconds, not to mention if someone really wants to take drugs they are going to find a way to do it no matter what and get away with as much as they can. If you eat junk food you might get fat. If you go naked in 30 delow weather you might get frost bite and if you choose to use drugs you might have a negative reaction and / or DIE. Any well read 10 year old knows this. <--- And thats my opinion on drug deaths in general and mainly in wrestling.

The other deaths I can't really speculate on but in any large-ish group of people its just statistical that a portion will die young. And in every group statisically a portion will be drug users, casual and otherwise.

 

[Slyfox696]

There are good drugs that cause no harm to the body and is very therapeutic and used as medicines in the world(marijuana, mushrooms),

This is untrue.

Ignoring the fact that Marijuana is considered a "gateway" drug, meaning that people on marijuana are more likely to get on other drugs, it also is a psychologically addictive drug. It has been linked to higher risk of lung cancer, as well as the impairment of short term memory loss.It causes worsening of attention span and hand-eye coordination, both of which are dangerous when behind the wheel of a car. It can cause permanent damage to the brain, increased risk of depression and a loss of motivation. It weakens the immune system, and when ingested by pregnant females, increases the risk of birth defects and miscarriages.

I don't know as much about mushrooms, but I do know they can cause hallucinations and paranoia.

whoever said people who do drugs are weak is, imo, a very close minded statement, alot of people are on drugs due to health conditions, I sure everybody on this forum knows somebody that relies on a drug to keep them alive, next time think you shit through more

Prescription drugs, taken responsibly and under close monitoring of a moral doctor is fine, and not what the poster was talking about I don't believe. The poster was talking about drugs like anabolic steroids, cocaine, meth, marijuana etc. etc, drugs which are illegal and harmful to the person taking them and sometimes to others as well. And, I don't know anyone who takes those drugs to stay alive.

Those drugs, unless prescribed by a competent doctor, should not be taken. Don't tell someone to "think you shit through more" when what they are saying is accurate.

 

[JoshK1985]

Ok yea a lot of these guys did go onto WWE or WCW no doubt. But a lot of them didn't last there. Most of the time I don't think they were giving a fair shake becasue of what they came from. ECW was looked out a garbage wrestling and a garbage company. Now, I don't think people at the big companies just said that due to the type of wrestling but also from the enviroment they came from. I think it was widely known in the industry that the ECW guys were hard partying indviduals and there repuations proceeded them. Of course a lot of wrestlers drink and do drugs but I think the partying was alittle harder in the ECW lockeroom.

My point I was trying to make by making this thread wasn't to say there was curse but to bring attention to everyonr from ECW who has passed on. I think it is just really werid that so many guys from ECW died so young and that many people from wwe or ecw haven't died in such a short peroid of time.