E:60 @ Mania 25...A Case of Poor Journalism? | Page 2 | WrestleZone Forums

E:60 @ Mania 25...A Case of Poor Journalism?

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How are you all so certain of what happened? Were you there? I don't remember of reading about any witnesses to the incident coming forward? I don't remember hearing about someone else being in the house at the time, or saw it through the window etc. So, how do you know?

Oh, what the police said so. So, it must be right then. I mean, the cops never arrest the wrong man, do they? There has never been anyone who has gone to prison or been executed who was later found to be innocent, has there? I forgot about America's iron-clad 100% strike rate when it comes to capturing perpetrators.

The police, who in the space of 48 hours, were about to reach a conclusion without coming up with a list of suspects, interrogating anyone to test their alibi or speaking to any person who SAW it happen. The police, who always suspect family members first, and often overlook less obvious suspects, because as long as someone pays, who cares, right? I mean, it is always a family member who does it. Also, what evidence was found and tested by a court of law? But I bet it is a big relief to the cops that Benoit is dead. It makes their job easier, rather than chase down leads, interview suspects, come up with motives etc. This way, they can finish up before the doughnut shop closes.

If Benoit did do it, then why? What was his motive? Roid-rage, demetia, his wife was leaving him? Come on. You people know so damn much, you must know. You and the police are so SURE that he did it, without a doubt, so you must have a motive for why he did it too.

The police found five beer cans and a bottle of wine next to the exercise machine Benoit was founding hanging from. I wonder how a man who would have been drunk could have had the judgment and clarity to remember what he learned in science class about how a pulley works, and was able to drunkenly rig an exercise machine in such a way that it would hang him. It sounds too sophisicated for me. But you would be surprised what people can do when they are drunk, right? Also, wasn't Benoit's brain meant to be stuffed? So a man who is so disillusioned that he kills his family, can then rig an exercise machine to hang him?

So, Kevin Sullivan, a man who had motive, who hated Benoit, who threatened to kill him once, who knew that Chris Benoit had given more to the wrestling industry than Sullivan could in ten lifetimes, and practised satanism, wasn't interrogated and tested for his alibi. He wasn't even a suspect. But why would he be? I mean Sullivan had no reason to be jealous of Chris Benoit, except for stealing his wife, having a more star-studded career and greater success in his chosen sport, being richer and more famous. No, what is there to be jealous of there?

If Benoit's death was suicide, where is the suicide note? The police couldn't find one, but suspect suicide. In fact, they were so thorough when they looked for one, that they didn't even come across Benoit's diary, found in the trash by neighbours a week later. So much for going over things with a fine tooth comb? But hey, it is only a "wrestler". It MUST be steroid-related.

The police said that Nancy died first, then Daniel the next day. Yet, when the families were fighting in court for the estate, doubt was raised about the order of deaths. But the cops were so sure, so that should end the argument, shouldn't it?

So, no-one saw it happen. No evidence produced has been tested. No suicide note was found. No motive has been determined. Yes, I can see how they reached that conclusion. I mean, why test the evidence, explore possibilities? Benoit is dead, so job done.

I mean, it's not like it is a massive loss to the IWC. It wasn't like it was Eddie Guerrero or "Stone Cold" Steve Austin (who, if he had killed Debra when he beat her, would have all of you defending him, and making excuses). It was only some "wrestler" who wasn't very charismatic on the mike, who didn't tell a story, sell merchandise or do comedy. He was a "wrestler", not a "sports-entertainer". So, you can live with Benoit being the murderer, because it doesn't offend your sensibilities. It's not like a popular hero. It's not like it was Jeff Hardy or anyone. You are prepared to swallow whatever the media and the police tell you, because Benoit is expendable in your eyes. He is in the WWE's too. I bet Vince was relieved it wasn't Cena, or Triple H or Batista, or he would lose a "meal-ticket", and sell out less arenas. Benoit can be covered easily enough. Just program two more promos rather than the match Benoit would have done.

Get off the OP's back. He never said that Benoit didn't do it. Neither have I. But if you refuse to even consider the possibility that he may be innocent, then it says more about your opinion of him than it does about his guilt. I thought in America, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty. I mean, with Benoit dead, no evidence can be tested, and then any other party can't be inked to it. But the police got their man, that's all that counts.

If it was a family member of yours who had been accussed of murdering two other family members, then killing himself, would you just accept what the police believe, or would you want all avenues explored? Would you think "it sounds typical" (NB No-one thought that it was typical of Chris Benoit) , or would you want every avenue covered, for the sake of their memory? If Christopher Michael Benoit is even 1% not guilty of it, isn't his and Nancy's families owed a thorough investigation? A man's reputation is being trashed, and maybe deservedly so, but if there is any doubt, doesn't a possibly innocent man have the right to have his legacy restored?
 
It is a perfectly legitimate and credible statement. There is nothing false about it as it is a closed case considered "solved" by the police with it being labled as a double-murder, suicide.
I have been in newspapers for 10 years now and this is definitely acceptable practice in a case that is closed such as this. You are being argumentative just to be argumentative ... which is all right, plenty of us are like that ... but there is nothing wrong with what Schapp (a very long tenured respected journalist) said.
Also ... in your journalism class you should have gotten into some of the legal aspects of it ... he can say whatever he wants about Benoit ... or any other dead person for that matter. You cannot libel or slander a dead person.

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What about "cold cases" then? What if evidence came forward to re-open the case. Just because a case is closed, that doesn't mean it is the end.
Isn't a dead person's family owed some sensitivity?

But let me tell you about the media. There are some good people who want to report the truth. But many others twist words, make accusations and judgments and slander people while hiding behind doing it "in the public interest". Tell me that the story is not all of a sudden more interesting because he is labelled a "murderer". The media then feed this to a pubic, who stopped caring about truth a long time ago, and they eat it up, because "at least they must be better than this person, since they haven't murdered anyone". The media's job is to make you believe that all politicians are liars, all evangelists are conmen, and all wrestlers are "strung-out steroid junkies". It's called stereotyping.

Also, you can't libel or slander a dead person. What about the Undertaker then? I see people bag him all the time on the internet? Maybe you can't slander the undead, either? :undertaker2:
 
Wow. That's all I can say.

Obviously some of us are more opinionated than others on this topic. Back to the original topic, I've said my piece. It was not irresponsible for them to say what they did about Benoit because what they said is what the official record of accounts is.

As to whether Benoit is innocent or not, hey, I'd love to believe that he's innocent. But so far the only things I've read here, or anywhere for that matter, are wild conjecture about one particular individual's past dealings with Benoit. This is not solid basis for investigating another lead. I'm sure that Kevin Sullivan had an alibi for that day, maybe he was asked, I don't know. At this point I don't care. It seems that some people have such strong opinions on this and it's because of how we feel about Benoit as a wrestler. The problem there is that it gives you a bias towards him and you're more inclined to think he didn't do it. All I asked for was some logical, tangible evidence that someone could point me to in order to try and sway my opinion that what happened is anything other than a double murder-suicide.

So sorry for taking up so much time. I'm done with this thread.
 
Schaap should have said that "authorities confirmed that Benoit killed his wife and 7 year old son." It will never be totally proven even though thats probably what happened. But because Benoit killed himself, we will never know for 100%. However this will always be remembered as a tragedy.
 
I find it amusing how people just keep wanting to believe that childhood hero Chris Benoit wasn't an evil person. And, in their attempt to do this, they're willing to believe that trained forensic experts are incompetent or immoral, that a former wrestler would have the wiles of a master criminal to be able to kill people while leaving ZERO traces of being there (not to mention, assuming that Sullivan could actually fight Benoit and win), and they're willing to criticize a well-known journalist for the way he phrases something.

Seriously, Ricky, come off it. Anyone who thinks that Kevin Sullivan could come into the Benoit's house, kill Nancy and Daniel while Chris watched, and then overpower Chris to hang him, is just ridiculous. Kevin Sullivan in his peak condition could never beat the much more in shape and much better trained Chris Benoit in a fight.

We know that Chris abused his wife, and that Nancy was scared for her life. We know that this was a VERY high profile case, and thus, would require some of the top notch investigators in Atlanta. We know that there has never been ONE piece of evidence to suggest ANYTHING other than a double murder suicide.

And you still want to criticize people for saying that Benoit killed his family? I guess anyone who says that Adolf Hitler killed millions of Jews should be criticized as well. I mean, he died before he could be given a chance to appear at a trial for his defense as well.
 
I see nothing wrong with Jeremy Schapp's statement. The case is closed, and in the eye of the law and what should be in the eye of the public is, that Chris Benoit, former WWE star, commited double homicide and suicide.

Detective Bo Turner of the Fayette County Sheriff's Department told television station WAGA-TV that the case was being treated as a murder-suicide. The station reported that investigators had discovered, and would eventually cite as an official ruling, that Benoit murdered his wife and son over the weekend and hanged himself sometime on Monday.

While this may have never gone to trial, the case was closed. There's no evidence in Benoit's favor. As far as what Mr. Schapp's said, he's perfectly in the right. Just like if a journalist had to mention O.J. Simpson's murder trial, he's not going to say O.J. Simpson is a possible murderer even though he was found innocent. People will have their own opinions and that's perfectly fine, but officially, the case was closed and Benoit is considered to be a murderer. Simple. End of story. Stop trying to put your fanatism in front of the facts that are out there.
 
He killed his son with fact the “Crippler Crossface” with the arms locked around his neck.

Nobody knows that is true,it's just a b*lls**t rumour.

Could you really picture Benoit trapping the arm and wrenching back?

Don't you think there would be been different injuries suffered to his son like pulled arm,back or neck muscles? Which would have been the absolute minimum damage inflicted by a 230 pound wrestler by applying the crossface to a small boy.

Maybe Eddie (RIP) hit the frog splash on his bed right before he sadly passed away. To me that statement is in the same category of idiotic thinking as Benoit killing Daniel with the crippler crossface.

Not to mention it has even never been suggested by the powers that be in any way it happened. Suffocation of some sort I'm sure is the official line. Just a rumour made up and carried on by some truly sad people who like to make one of wrestling's blackest marks look even more sensational and ugly.
 
So let me ask you this then, since we all are stupid for believeing what the police concluded had happened, What are your thoughts on September 11th? I mean after all we didn't see terrorists with our own eyes. maybe there were no terrorists? Since u seemt o think that for something to be true it has to have been witnessed.
 
There are many people who believe september 11th as an inside job. September 11th is completly different because it was such a huge event with so many lives involved. The U.S. Government says Osama and friends did it. And if a reporter on TV says it, there's absolutly no problem with that, because that's what the general consensus is on it. Which is the same with Benoit. Case is closed.

If someone were to go on TV as a journalist and say, "September 11th, the day that will remain in infamy as an inside job by the U.S. Government" he would be in the wrong. He could have his own opinion, just like people could have their own opinion on Benoit. Noone's saying you can't have your own opinion.
 
There are many people who believe september 11th as an inside job. September 11th is completly different because it was such a huge event with so many lives involved. The U.S. Government says Osama and friends did it. And if a reporter on TV says it, there's absolutly no problem with that, because that's what the general consensus is on it. Which is the same with Benoit. Case is closed.

If someone were to go on TV as a journalist and say, "September 11th, the day that will remain in infamy as an inside job by the U.S. Government" he would be in the wrong. He could have his own opinion, just like people could have their own opinion on Benoit. Noone's saying you can't have your own opinion.

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Firstly, Sep 11 happened because we can actually SEE footage of planes hitting the World Trade Centre.

Adolf Hitler can be accussed of the Holocaust because there are eyewitnesses who were alive at the time (Other Nazis who have since come clean).

But there are NO (I repeat, NO) witnesses to the Benoit murders.

Let's say Benoit lived, and it was taken to court. With no eyewitnesses, the defense would have a case. If there is any evidence the police found, they owe it to the public to reveal it. I have heard not one skerrick of evidence (have you? If so, tell me what it was). Also, in court, a motive would have to be arrived at. Do you know what would happen if this scant effort was put into Benoit's case. He would walk, because with no eyewitnesses, no evidence and no motive, Benoit would be found not guilty.

The fact that the IWC are running to protect Sullivan astounds me. Why would you want to believe a washed-up old never-was like Sullivan, over someone who produced some of the greatest wrestling matches the world has seen (but his in-ring efforts weren't lauded like Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels, because he wasn't good on the mike)?

No-one knows. That's my point. Also, why is a journalist, who wasn't there either, bringing this up in a story about Wrestlemania. It is irrelevant to the article itself. Again, it is typical of media hacks who sit on their fat bum criticising those who have vastly more talent than they could ever have, while knowing that, in the end, their articles don't amount to a hill of beans.
 
Personalities in sports have avoided Jeremy Schapp for some time. Bobby Knight told him that he had a long way to go to be like his father, legendary Dick Schapp. Jeremy is not a good reporter. His stories are often littered with accusations and innuendo.

I don't think the piece was that bad. I would have preferred it be done by E:60 reporter Bill Simmons, as he is superior to Schapp, and an actual Wrestling fan, whereas Schapp just looks to trap someone. Simmons would have done far better. Go to ESPN.com, and read his work. He is amazing and fair, opinionated yet just, and an entertaining read all around.
 
I find it amusing how people just keep wanting to believe that childhood hero Chris Benoit wasn't an evil person.

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Where exactly did I bring up the morality of Benoit's actions and/or proclaim him as my childhood hero?


And, in their attempt to do this, they're willing to believe that trained forensic experts are incompetent or immoral

Don't remember doing this either.

that a former wrestler would have the wiles of a master criminal to be able to kill people while leaving ZERO traces of being there (not to mention, assuming that Sullivan could actually fight Benoit and win), and they're willing to criticize a well-known journalist for the way he phrases something.

I don't remember saying that I thought Sullivan did it. I just stated that the theory exists and is fairly logical.

Seriously, Ricky, come off it. Anyone who thinks that Kevin Sullivan could come into the Benoit's house, kill Nancy and Daniel while Chris watched, and then overpower Chris to hang him, is just ridiculous.

I don't understand what is ridiculous about that. Seems pretty possible to me.

Kevin Sullivan in his peak condition could never beat the much more in shape and much better trained Chris Benoit in a fight.

Even a very drug induced Chris Benoit?

We know that Chris abused his wife, and that Nancy was scared for her life.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that he'd kill her and Daniel.

We know that this was a VERY high profile case, and thus, would require some of the top notch investigators in Atlanta.

Not necessarily. First of all, Atlanta has one of the highest crime rates in the country. Second of all, high profile doesn't mean that much. O.J. got acquitted, and there was pretty significant evidence pointing at him as the guilty party in his murder trial.

We know that there has never been ONE piece of evidence to suggest ANYTHING other than a double murder suicide.

Innocent until proven guilty...isn't that the judicial policy of the United States?


Edit: Sure there is. Many people would testify that it stands in contrast of Chris Benoit's character to commit such acts.

And you still want to criticize people for saying that Benoit killed his family?

Yes, because it is reasonably possible that he didn't.

I guess anyone who says that Adolf Hitler killed millions of Jews should be criticized as well. I mean, he died before he could be given a chance to appear at a trial for his defense as well.

Nuremberg Trials. The Nazis went under trial for that. The Benoit case did not. Not seeing how you can compare the two.
 
Firstly, Sep 11 happened because we can actually SEE footage of planes hitting the World Trade Centre.


I never made any statement that September 11th didn't happen. obviously it did, and I know it... I didn't need to see footage, I saw it in person. That doesn't mean that we, the people, know who sent the planes, if they were really hi-jacked....blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who go running around saying or even believing that it was an inside job, but there's definitly a possibility. My point was about whether a journalist could say that though as a fact, and be considered a poor journalist?
 
I find it amusing how people just keep wanting to believe that childhood hero Chris Benoit wasn't an evil person. And, in their attempt to do this, they're willing to believe...that a former wrestler would have the wiles of a master criminal to be able to kill people while leaving ZERO traces of being there (not to mention, assuming that Sullivan could actually fight Benoit and win), and they're willing to criticize a well-known journalist for the way he phrases something.

Seriously, Ricky, come off it. Anyone who thinks that Kevin Sullivan could come into the Benoit's house, kill Nancy and Daniel while Chris watched, and then overpower Chris to hang him, is just ridiculous.

We know that there has never been ONE piece of evidence to suggest ANYTHING other than a double murder suicide.

For the first time I've been here on these forums, even before signing up, I will... for the first time agree with Sly on the statements I quoted from him.

How is it reasonably possible that Benoit DIDN'T commit the murders, and then hang himself? If there was a small, tiny, piece of evidence that says he didn't I would love to know. The whole idea of having Sullivan or anyone else for that matter, kill Nancy and the child while the husband watched...and then hold off another day before forcing Benoit to hang himself? It doesn't seem logical or reasonable to assume that.
 
What we need to investigate is weather he killed more than two people.

A guy travelling, all along in a strange place. I don't want to scare anybody, but I think there might be more.
 
The fact that the IWC are running to protect Sullivan astounds me. Why would you want to believe a washed-up old never-was like Sullivan, over someone who produced some of the greatest wrestling matches the world has seen (but his in-ring efforts weren't lauded like Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels, because he wasn't good on the mike)?

Really? I mean, really?

I said I was done with this thread, but this is just too much. So you're going to tell me that we're "defending" Kevin Sullivan at Chris Benoit's expense? And that we're doing it solely based upon their wrestling careers?

What are you, 12? Grow up!

Look, I hate to take this attitude since way too many people on the internet do it, but this is really too much. You have a bias for Benoit that you are not able separate from the murders. Unless I've forgotten earlier posts where you said "Benoit did it," you're really making yourself look foolish. Please tell me again why exactly Kevin Sullivan should be dragged through the mud and accused of this without proof? And no, saying that he hated Benoit, was once married to Nancy and supposedly practiced Satanism (something that I've never seen or heard of outside of his wrestling gimmick), is nothing but very circumstantial tidbits that are not a basis for accusing someone else, nor would they hold up in court to try and create reasonable doubt!

Benoit's wrestling career has nothing to do with the murders, other than the fact that the toll his body took in the ring likely contributed to what happened. Remember the analysis of his brain that said his brain resembled that of an 85 year old Alzheimer's patient? That's a more telling piece of evidence than any roid rage belief. My theory, which has no basis in fact but is just a belief, is that Nancy said she was leaving him and he snapped and killed her. Realizing then what he did, knowing he'd go to jail, he "mercy killed" his son rather than have him grow up without his parents, then killed himself. That theory is much more reasonable than Kevin Sullivan doing it.

I only defend Kevin Sullivan in the sense that he doesn't deserve this kind of treatment with nothing but crackpot theories backed up with zero tangible evidence as a means of condemning him. I don't care about him as a person one way or the other, I was never a fan of his whereas I was a fan of Benoit. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter one bit. Chris Benoit was a great wrestler. That doesn't mean he couldn't possibly be a murderer.
 
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Where exactly did I bring up the morality of Benoit's actions and/or proclaim him as my childhood hero?
Who says I was specifically referring to you?

Don't remember doing this either.
See above.

I don't remember saying that I thought Sullivan did it. I just stated that the theory exists and is fairly logical.
If by "fairly logical", you mean "completely unreasonable", then I would agree.

I don't understand what is ridiculous about that. Seems pretty possible to me.
You're right. Men tend to stand by while someone they hate kills their family, and then a day later, hangs them.

Good call. :rolleyes:

Even a very drug induced Chris Benoit?
None of the drugs found in Benoit's body would put him in a stupor.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that he'd kill her and Daniel.
And yet, by the word of the trained people who investigated the case and knows everything there is to know about it, he did.

Not necessarily. First of all, Atlanta has one of the highest crime rates in the country.
So, I'm sure they have top notch investigators.

Second of all, high profile doesn't mean that much. O.J. got acquitted, and there was pretty significant evidence pointing at him as the guilty party in his murder trial.
OJ was acquitted. He wasn't found innocent. However, in the civil trail, OJ was found guilty, as the burden of proof is lower in a civil trial. And let's not even begin to discuss how the prosecution fucked up the criminal trial.

Innocent until proven guilty...isn't that the judicial policy of the United States?
Chris Benoit waved his right to a jury trial the moment he killed himself. Thus, since he chose to not have a trial, then proven guilty is up to the people who investigate it.

Edit: Sure there is. Many people would testify that it stands in contrast of Chris Benoit's character to commit such acts.
And how many of those same people are standing up to proclaim his innocence?

Yes, because it is reasonably possible that he didn't.
Not according to all the evidence and the people who actually investigated the crime.

Nuremberg Trials. The Nazis went under trial for that. The Benoit case did not. Not seeing how you can compare the two.
Don't remember speaking about random Nazi's, just Hitler.
 
The way I see this is that the authorities say it was murder, therefore it was murder.

The authorities say Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK, so Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK despite many a conspiracy theory, it would actually be abd journalism to say allegedly before that.
 
Nobody knows that is true,it's just a b*lls**t rumour.

Could you really picture Benoit trapping the arm and wrenching back?

Don't you think there would be been different injuries suffered to his son like pulled arm,back or neck muscles? Which would have been the absolute minimum damage inflicted by a 230 pound wrestler by applying the crossface to a small boy.

Maybe Eddie (RIP) hit the frog splash on his bed right before he sadly passed away. To me that statement is in the same category of idiotic thinking as Benoit killing Daniel with the crippler crossface.

Not to mention it has even never been suggested by the powers that be in any way it happened. Suffocation of some sort I'm sure is the official line. Just a rumour made up and carried on by some truly sad people who like to make one of wrestling's blackest marks look even more sensational and ugly.


When the investigation was going on, the investigators did say that his wife Nancy was killed using a similar choke hold and his son was smothered with a pillow. It's not a rumor. Benoit's just a sick bastard who finally snapped. Simple as that.
 
This topic proves that wrestling fans are dumb as shit. I don’t care what the piece was suppose to be about, as all it mention was the WWE was under fire in recent years as they get ready for Mania. So they mention steroids which leads to Benoit. As far as calling Benoit a Murderer, the guy killed his Wife and Kid, by definition I think that is what you would call a Murderer. I don’t give a damn about how good he was in the ring, he is a piece of shit now. Stop sucking Benoit dead dick on his career on how great he was and trying to salvage one last hope of is life and career when he killed his family case closed. He was crazy in the head, he killed his wife, then played with his kid outside for day, killed him, then killed himself, case closed.

I’ve read the theory of Sullivan and if Benoit loved his family so much he would of took a bullet to save his family instead of watch Kevin as he killed Nancy, Daniel, then hang Chris. That is stupid to believe. Chris Benoit was a crazy son of bitch, just because you was a fan doesn’t make it better. Get over Benoit and move on! Stop defending the guy. He will never never ever be in the Hall of Fame, no more DVDs, no what if Benoit hadn’t crap. Its over. Out of respect for a Nancy who A) was already being abused by Chris, & Daniel stop with the phrasing of his name. He killed his family, game over. Closed thread move on.

Can some just banned Chris Benoit from these forums, the guy was a piece shit.
 
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