Don't Shoot the Messenger

[shattered dreams]

It seems that there is a trend among the ruling class of the IWC to bitch about crowd reactions to things like a Husky Harris repackaging, the RAWs after Wrestlemania etc. Yes, you read that correctly, I called him Husky Harris. Want to rant on how "stupid" that makes me? I find it absurd when anyone tries to put something like this entirely on the fans. The fans did not put the Husky Harris gimmick on tv in the first place.

Full disclosure, I am only 60% sure I even know who that is anyway but just the name is doing him no favors. It isn't these fans fault that you personally want to move on to the next thing and forget what anyone with a memory knows happened. Yes, repackaging is a necessary and important part of wrestling but it has been increasingly abused. The issue here isn't smarks doing something you wish they wouldn't. The issue is how there are minimal plans for the character arcs of 90+ percent of the roster. When you give someone a dumb gimmick without purpose it is asinine to think the crowd should just conveniently immediately forget everything that happened prior. It is beyond naive to expect wrestling to exist entirely in kayfabe anymore so whining about it not and then turning around and arguing people shouldn't boo John Cena because of WM buyrates is just as dumb as those people chanting things you don't like.

Everything the fans do in wrestling is a reaction to product or industry. Don't shoot the messengers for what the company screwed up in the past. If the new gimmick is as good as people want to think it is (haven't seen it, don't care) then it will get over and the chants will go away. The fans are just delivering the feedback that they are well within their rights to. The failure is in creative, just because you think they aren't presently doing something wrong doesn't excuse them from past transgressions.

 

[Барбоса]

Some of the time, this is correct but not all of the time. There is seemingly always a pocket of fans who want to be contrary to the spirit of wrestling just to make themselves seem smart, clever or cool.

The last live event I went to had a group of such ********s, who vocally cheered every heel all night. It completely sucked the energy out of the room. So while the WWE is reaping something of what they sowed with Husky Harris, it is not always their fault and particularly in this day and age, you are not allowed to forget creative mistakes even if it is to the potential detriment of a good gimmick due to the idiocy of some fans.

 

[shattered dreams]

Some of the time, this is correct but not all of the time. There is seemingly always a pocket of fans who want to be contrary to the spirit of wrestling just to make themselves seem smart, clever or cool.

The last live event I went to had a group of such ********s, who vocally cheered every heel all night. It completely sucked the energy out of the room. So while the WWE is reaping something of what they sowed with Husky Harris, it is not always their fault and particularly in this day and age, you are not allowed to forget creative mistakes even if it is to the potential detriment of a good gimmick due to the idiocy of some fans.

But who says the gimmick is good? The only objective measure of if a gimmick is good is fan reaction. It obviously isn't over with these people yet. If the argument is they should react as you deem appropriate because you think this is a good gimmick then I am having trouble seeing them as the only ones worthy of a charge of excessive self interest. If you want to get to the root of the issue from solely the fans side then this is it in a nutshell: when I do it, it is smart. This is a slightly different rant but nothing is more misused in wrestling today than the idea of smart fans. Even the most blatant idiot knows wrestling is scripted, hence everyone is smart to the business by the traditional definition. They paid to cheer the heels, you paid to cheer the faces. What evidence do you have that they aren't expressing genuine opinions?

 

[Барбоса]

But that is overlooking the fact that there are dumb smart fans too, who would rather get their brief moment of pseudo-glory than give a new gimmick, a match etc. a fair shake.

The match between Sheamus and Orton on the RAW after Mania that was overshadowed by the fans going into business for themselves was actually quite good. From the rave reviews that it got in NXT, their debut promos and their actual debut, the Wyatt Family gimmick is good but there were a few fans who wanted to make themselves seem smart by chanting during it.

And even if it is their first viewing of Bray Wyatt, why would you not give it a chance before making something of a mockery about it?

 

[shattered dreams]

But that is overlooking the fact that there are dumb smart fans too, who would rather get their brief moment of pseudo-glory than give a new gimmick, a match etc. a fair shake.

The match between Sheamus and Orton on the RAW after Mania that was overshadowed by the fans going into business for themselves was actually quite good. From the rave reviews that it got in NXT, their debut promos and their actual debut, the Wyatt Family gimmick is good but there were a few fans who wanted to make themselves seem smart by chanting during it.

And even if it is their first viewing of Bray Wyatt, why would you not give it a chance before making something of a mockery about it?

Because that isn't how the entertainment industry works? Entertain me now or else. Second chances are asking far more than most get.

I think I saw some of that Sheamus-Orton match. I don't think I would call it quite good. It might not have been bad but this ties back to past transgressions. The way the characters had been used both in and out of the ring in the years leading up had convinced the crowd that they were boring. They didn't like the characters, they didn't like the style, it wasn't quite good to that crowd. They weren't chanting other things to amuse themselves for the sake of it, they were doing it because they weren't interested in what was in the ring. That isn't their fault. That is a shortcoming of what creative and the talents had done leading up to that match.

 

[Nate DaMac]

It's not in their nature to give a shit whether or not they're ruining a segment for everyone else. It's a common trait in all douchebags.

 

[Барбоса]

Because that isn't how the entertainment industry works? Entertain me now or else. Second chances are asking far more than most get.

The Orton/Sheamus match I can accept as it was something that had been seen before but you are making the assumption that those fans were not entertained by the Wyatt Family.

Just because they started a stupid chant does not mean that they were not entertained. That they did not start the chant until the very end of the segment suggests that they were at least partially interested in the debut.

Sure, they could have waited until the end as they were deciding whether or not they enjoyed it or not and then started chanting because they did not like Bray Wyatt but to me it just smacked of a small cadre of smart ass, self-loathing fans who wanted to be seen to be smarter than the average fan, even if it was to the detriment of the gimmick. The same kind of fans who would no doubt scream bloody murder if WWE dropped the Wyatt Family on the strength of the reaction that they fostered by chanting "Husky Harris."

 

[The Butcher]

Fans who purchase a ticket can chant, cheer, or sit on their hands as they see fit.

Fans who post on message boards will bitch, laud, or bitch accordingly.

 

[Danger Burger]

Well I don't know, I don't stand up and chanty "ROCKY!" at a Rambo movie? These guys are simply actors, playing a part. One would assume something that hasn't shown a peep on WWE television in two years would be left in the grave. The people chant the old name because the old gimmick was not a sucess. These should be the same people, smart fans, who know what a repackaging is. The only thing they don't know is how to enjoy a product without trying to big up themselves.

My general approach is to take what I'm given and enjoy it. Not to fret about insignificant moments from the past. And that's the bottom line, because Hollywood Blond Steve Austin said so. But this is an arguement with no winner.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

Fans who purchase a ticket can chant, cheer, or sit on their hands as they see fit.

Fans who post on message boards will bitch, laud, or bitch accordingly.

This.

 

[Danger Burger]

Fans who purchase a ticket can chant, cheer, or sit on their hands as they see fit.

Fans who post on message boards will bitch, laud, or bitch accordingly.

This too is true. It may at times be unfortunate (read as: when you disagree), but it is the right of the show goer at this type of event. The same does not hold true at the cinema.

Your only option is to not join in. I certainly wouldn't. I like a hot crowd as much as any other. The night after WM was in places good, the ziggler cash-in for example (even if the heel was cheered), but they ruined the ortan/sheamus match for me by paying more attention to themselves than the show.

 

[The Brain]

So what point do you think the fans that were chanting 'Husky Harris' were trying to make? Seems to me they were trying to show off their wrestling "intelligence" by remembering a past gimmick. Next time I go to an event I'm going to tell everyone Kane used to wrestle as Isaac Yankem. I'll be so cool.

 

[jmt225]

People want WWE in HD, this is what you get with it. You can hear the small minority really clearly these days. They've always been around... you can just hear them now.

 

[shattered dreams]

It's not in their nature to give a shit whether or not they're ruining a segment for everyone else. It's a common trait in all douchebags.

Define everyone in this statement. If the definition is myself and a couple of people on the Internet then ...

So what point do you think the fans that were chanting 'Husky Harris' were trying to make? Seems to me they were trying to show off their wrestling "intelligence" by remembering a past gimmick. Next time I go to an event I'm going to tell everyone Kane used to wrestle as Isaac Yankem. I'll be so cool.

I love how people repeat stuff like this and think they are the intelligent ones. How is chanting a past gimmick the first day back opposed to 15+ years later remotely comparable? Someone has been successfully repackaged before? Shocking.

"Seems to me" is shaky ground in a case like this. To frequently those using that phrase fall victim to the "since I can't think of anything else then this must be" trap, when really all that happened is they confirmed that they aren't as smart as they thought (and not so surprisingly significantly more biased to boot). This chanting someone's name to be cool is a ridiculous misdirection of what is going on. You don't like it, choice A: Fall back on the tried and true anyone doing something different than me is wrong and a moron, choice B: Admit the product you enjoy and defend on the Internet has made some mistakes that led to this situation.

People want WWE in HD, this is what you get with it. You can hear the small minority really clearly these days. They've always been around... you can just hear them now.

Night after WM is more than a small minority of the crowd.

 

[The Brain]

I love how people repeat stuff like this and think they are the intelligent ones. How is chanting a past gimmick the first day back opposed to 15+ years later remotely comparable? Someone has been successfully repackaged before? Shocking.

Both are past gimmicks that are not relevant in today's show. Pretty simple, really.

"Seems to me" is shaky ground in a case like this. To frequently those using that phrase fall victim to the "since I can't think of anything else then this must be" trap, when really all that happened is they confirmed that they aren't as smart as they thought (and not so surprisingly significantly more biased to boot). This chanting someone's name to be cool is a ridiculous misdirection of what is going on. You don't like it, choice A: Fall back on the tried and true anyone doing something different than me is wrong and a moron, choice B: Admit the company you enjoy and defend on the Internet has made some mistakes that led to this situation.

You avoided my question. What point do you think they were trying to make by chanting 'Husky Harris'?

 

[Барбоса]

"Seems to me" is shaky ground in a case like this.

Yes, it is the kind of thing people say when they cannot prove their position beyond doubt rather than making it seem like they have all the answers.

You should try it.

 

[shattered dreams]

D to the P

 

[shattered dreams]

Yes, it is the kind of thing people say when they cannot prove their position beyond doubt rather than making it seem like they have all the answers.

You should try it.

Except I did use it the way you suggest in the OP and took issue with Brain using it in his post to snarkily convey having all the answers.

 

[The Brain]

Except I did use it the way you suggest in the OP and took issue with Brain using it in his post to snarkily convey having all the answers.

That's the way it seems to you. I base my opinion on my experiences in watching countless shows in the company of several people that remind me of those that were chanting 'Husky Harris' on Monday. I, however, was not at Raw on Monday so I can't say for sure why they were chanting that, hence the phrase "seems to me."

For the third time, what point do you think the fans chanting 'Husky Harris' were trying to make?

 

[shattered dreams]

Both are past gimmicks that are not relevant in today's show. Pretty simple, really.

Too simple, really.


Anyway, as to the "point," I think labeling it as such gives the reaction more formality than it would have in reality. About all I have specifically argued is that the point wasn't look how "smart" I am, I remember his old name. Having little specific knowledge of the surrounding situation it is hard to say specifically what the thought process was. If I was to hazard a guess the thought process would be something like this isn't really working for me but I have a lot of excited energy because I love wrestling. How can I express what is keeping this from working for me and continue to enjoy my night? One person says it and it strikes a chord with enough people that they go along with it to the point it is heard. Expressing what you are feeling is the whole point of being a fan. If they don't buy into the repackage yet then I don't see why they have to pretend otherwise for others sake. Don't like it, find more people that are as passionate for the other side and drown them out.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Shattered - I got us tickets to see an Impact taping. I can't wait to chant, "I want the TV Title! I want the TV Title!" for 2 straight hours.

We're gonna have the best time.

 

[shattered dreams]

I always had a sneaking suspicion you were in the witness protection program from your days with the crucial crew.

On a more pragmatic note, with the WWE actively pursuing an increase in fans from an immature demographic, do you actually see these crowd reactions that are undesirable from your perspective improving anytime soon?

 

[The Brain]

Too simple, really.


Anyway, as to the "point," I think labeling it as such gives the reaction more formality than it would have in reality. About all I have specifically argued is that the point wasn't look how "smart" I am, I remember his old name. Having little specific knowledge of the surrounding situation it is hard to say specifically what the thought process was. If I was to hazard a guess the thought process would be something like this isn't really working for me but I have a lot of excited energy because I love wrestling. How can I express what is keeping this from working for me and continue to enjoy my night? One person says it and it strikes a chord with enough people that they go along with it to the point it is heard. Expressing what you are feeling is the whole point of being a fan. If they don't buy into the repackage yet then I don't see why they have to pretend otherwise for others sake. Don't like it, find more people that are as passionate for the other side and drown them out.

So we're both guessing as to what the tought process was. I think my guess is the far more likely behavior of certain wrestling fans but I guess we'll never know what those fans in Baltimore were thinking that night.

 

[Dirk]

It seems that there is a trend among the ruling class of the IWC to bitch about crowd reactions to things like a Husky Harris repackaging, the RAWs after Wrestlemania etc. Yes, you read that correctly, I called him Husky Harris. Want to rant on how "stupid" that makes me?

You used to be fun

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I agree with shattered on this one. If WWE didn't give these guys dumb gimmicks and names to start off with this kind of stuff would never happen.

Personally I would love it if things were the way of the 80's and 90's when you could get away with stuff like that. Pop culture in every time follows a similar style with similar messages, well the message of today is "be a smart ass". I've known a lot of smart asses but I gotta say smart assery is hitting all time high levels today. You may not like it but its completely foolish to think in this day and age that some fans won't act like this.

Some people like to sit back, enjoy, and live in kayfabe and others don't. If you don't want people to chant Husky Harris be smart enough to not give him that name in the first place, anyone with half a brain about wrestling knows he had no chance with that name and no mic time to get over.

The only way you can get past this is if the guy is so good he can make people forget about those dumb gimmick. Luckily Bray might be able to pull that off as I've been very impressed with his first few weeks on RAW.