Does the Undertaker Bury Talent?

[Skullz Crack'Em]

I have read countless times here on WZ that Triple H doesn't let anybody beat him and he always wins, blah, blah, blah. For those of you that are so uptight about Triple H, why don't you say the same for Taker? Undertaker is a great superstar and a future Hall of Famer, I am not denying that, but IMO he is the HHH of SmackDown. I admit that my favorite wrestler is Triple H and I also agree that he does bury certain superstars every now and then, but he is not the only one.

The Undertaker deserves the same heat HHH is getting on all wrestling forums because he does the same thing Triple H does, probably more so. I remember reading that Edge was so happy to go to SmackDown to avoid getting buried by HHH, but did he ever realize he was immediately put into a trap on SmackDown where he is pretty much destined to be Taker's 16th victim at WM24? That's right Edge, you are Taker's next whipping boy when you return, ask Randy how it feels. You may say that the 15-0 streak is Taker's "thing", but you all know he will not be loved any less if he lost at WM for 15 years straight instead, he has permanent Star Power where nothing would ever change it. Taker losing at a WM will not affect him at all, but it will make a great difference to the potential young Superstar that beats him.

When Taker beat Randy at WM21 and again at Armaggedon 2005, nobody seemed to care, but if HHH beats Randy it is a different story, everybody rushes to their keyboards to talk about how bad HHH is that he wouldn't let Randy beat him, boo hoo(who was the last man standing at No Mercy?). Maybe if some of you HHH haters open your eyes wide enough you might actually realize that there are other superstars besides HHH that bury their opponents, like The Undertaker. Mark Calloway doesn't work as much as he used to, so why won't he use his precious time that is left of his career to rub his star power on younger stars? Also, there is no need to bring up the "But HHH is married to Steph and he makes every decision in the company" crap because we all know Taker has a lot of influence backstage as well, maybe not as much as Hunter, but he definitely has enough to give his opinion of whether he should lose or win in a match.

So, is anybody going to admit that Taker buries careers just like Triple H, or is there a flaw in my argument to prove otherwise?

 

[BigMike1994]

great argument, Triple H is getting rep/heat or what ever for the same stuff that taker does and in my opinion taker does more because Undertaker is 15-0 at wrestlemania he's a 4 time WWE champion theres 2 accoplishments Triple H, 11 time champ i'm not denieing The Games accomplishments but if me and my mates start talking about wrestling and i bring up Triple H been 11 time champ it takes them a while to think about it unlike Undertakers 15-0 streak at wrestlemania. in 2005 (thanks for making me relize this just then) at Armageddon and WM21 i was pretty excited to see taker win but I still remember when ortan destroyd him all those times over infact I remember it more.

but i do kind of disagree with somthing undertakers WM streak should never end especially not to edge, as much as i like edge and think that he is the future of smackdown he should never end the streak no one should ever end the streak it would ruin everything WWE and the undertaker is they dont call him the phenomn for nothing.

 

[cobain]

This point was actually brought up by Jonny B in mine and his debate in
"Is Triple H getting a big head?"

Triple h takes more heat for backstage polotics then he does for not losing to anyone.

The heat that Hunter gets is because he is often in the main event and generally seems to be pushed as the number one on whatever show he is on.

Paul Heyman said it best at one night stand
to whoever teh current champion was :"...the only reason you're champion is because HHH didn't want to work tuesdays"

Undertaker came back at summerslam and hasn't been pushed as the top face of Smackdown yet, HHH came back and immediatly was pushed as the top face of RAW.

Who HHH puts over is only a small part of the debate of why people are trashing him. It's so much more than just the loses.

 

[Hdog684]

Yeah, the whole Triple H buries everybody thing is garbage now...feel free to join us in 2007 people. This isn't 2002-04, he's not dominating Raw as a painfully boring heel who's single handedly destroying every career he can on his way to making a show as unwatchable as possible anymore. Anybody who talks about how he's burying people since his return just doesn't know anything about wrestling. Not only does he not have the title, he's not even in the title match people. He jobs to Orton and then makes Umaga look as strong as possible, he freakin doesn't even appear on Raw to sell his injuries.

As for The Undertaker, I wouldn't put him on the same level as Triple H. Yeah there's the WrestleMania win streak, but he doesn't have all the title reigns and all the dominating the main event scenes that Taker has. Plus Taker's wins aren't at the expense of the WWE, he's not ruining SD! by taking up as much air time so he can be as boring as possible and making everybody else look bad. He just shows up for his one match every two weeks and that's it.

By the way, HHH was only pushed to the top of Raw for one night in an emergency situation when the champ got hurt, and he's already gone from the top again. They brought back HBK and put him ahead of HHH on his first night back.

 

[cobain]

Yeah, the whole Triple H buries everybody thing is garbage now...feel free to join us in 2007 people. This isn't 2002-04, he's not dominating Raw as a painfully boring heel who's single handedly destroying every career he can on his way to making a show as unwatchable as possible anymore. Anybody who talks about how he's burying people since his return just doesn't know anything about wrestling. Not only does he not have the title, he's not even in the title match people. He jobs to Orton and then makes Umaga look as strong as possible, he freakin doesn't even appear on Raw to sell his injuries.


By the way, HHH was only pushed to the top of Raw for one night in an emergency situation when the champ got hurt, and he's already gone from the top again. They brought back HBK and put him ahead of HHH on his first night back.

Please explain how HHH is dominating Raw?

He destroyed King Booker for his return, he destroyed Carlito, He single handedly beat up both members of Londrick. He beat Umaga pretty easily at No mercy, he beat Orton pretty easy in the first match and I would hardly say that 2nd match he had with Orton was "jobbing".

Then he comes out on Raw the next night and has the strength to take on both Orton and Umaga and was dominating them until Umaga hit him with a chair.
When he's on the show he takes up a lot of time with his talking and he's in the title picture.

2002-2004? Try 2006-07 Last time I checked he was destroying The Spirit Squad, Umaga, and Rated RKO right before his injury so all he did was picked up where he left off.

Who has had more face time on Raw than HHH since his return?

 

[salopstick]

hhh does what is right for business and people forget this

hhh is a company man through and through he has gone over to benoit, cena and batista at wrestlemania he also lost 3 times on the bounce to benjamin when they were trying to push him. there is a reason why he remains in the spotlight and that is because he draws, full stop.

when cena was injured who better than to push orton than hhh. guys who are given belts are not respected so to have hhh beat orton straight away was the right decision. with hhh dropping back to orton having already fought umaga again is the right decision because it gives orton heel heat and sets up a potential hhh/orton feud down the road. there was nobody on raw who could have done that at no mercy so hhh and vince did the right thing and hhh was bashed for it

i think it will hurt edge more to lose his 9-0 streak at wrestlemania than undertaker so i hope this match never happens, if it does then give edge the win because this guy is going to be the main heel on whatever brand he is on for the next 5 years and the heat he will get for ending undertakers streak will be amazing.

i also agree that undertaker should follow hbk and hhh and start putting the younger guys over when needed, he is at the stage of his career now where his hall of fame is guaranteed and is ready to leave the ring and ending his streak will not hurt his star power, guys like kenny dykstra, masters and mvp could have a good career boost with a high profile feud aith the undertaker but and it is a big but these people need to raise their game and earn the rub taker should give them.

 

[cobain]

hhh does what is right for business and people forget this

i also agree that undertaker should follow hbk and hhh and start putting the younger guys over when needed, he is at the stage of his career now where his hall of fame is guaranteed and is ready to leave the ring and ending his streak will not hurt his star power, guys like kenny dykstra, masters and mvp could have a good career boost with a high profile feud aith the undertaker but and it is a big but these people need to raise their game and earn the rub taker should give them.

I think the Undertaker has attempted putting people over.

He had that fued with Orton with Orton trying to take him out at WM.
He dropped the belt to Edge (even if it was becasue of injury)
He tried to get Mark Henry over as a dominant heel
He tried to get Khali over as a dominant heel (when Khali first went to smackdown)
He tried to get Muhammed Hussan over
Undertaker tried to put over non main eventers (minus Edge) and kept himself out of the main event in the process.
Undertaker putting people over doesn't work


Who is the last person HHH put over?
Don't say Randy Orton because people already hated him to start with, he was already a major heel.
Umaga? As I mentioned HHH was destroying him before he got hurt at the begining of 07. He was destroying him before Umaga used a chair and help from Randy Orton.

 

[samediff]

I read somewhere that Randy Orton was supposed to beat undertaker at WM to play on the "legend killer" thing, but out of respect said he wouldn't. Now that may not be believable....coz lets face it, if you wanna further your wrestling career, then beating takers streak is a HUGE step. but its quite possible to be true, Taker has a lot of respect from the wrestlers backstage.

I watched a shoot interview with Road Dogg/B G James and Billy Gunn/Kip James (whoever you know them as), and they had nothing but good things to say about Taker and how helpful he is to the people backstage, and how much respect he earns. and all they did when it came to HHH is talk about how arrogant and annoying he is, how he seems to demand respect rather than earn it.

Now I aint saying there opinion is gospel, but these are two guys who worked alongside HHH for a long time as part of DX. But that might explain why HHH gets some backstage heat???

 

[flip222]

I totally Agree. Taker has done it for years, probably even before triple H had all his backstage power.

Im sick of seeing Taker get 'injured' only for the person who 'injured' him to be buried by Taker when he makes his return. The WWE need to realise fans don't want to see the same storylines over and over again.

Taker gets injured and is gone for months. the guy who injured him then comes out every week saying he put Taker away only for the bells and druids to come along. Then it takes Taker a year to get to the ring when he has returned, whips the guys arse and then wins within ten, maybe fifteen minutes if we're lucky. then Taker comes out on the next television show saying he wants the belt and goes for it.

Same storyline, just that it will prob be Edge next who puts him out of action. I bet anyone this happens and Taker comes back and beats Edge at the next Wrestlemania.

 

[salopstick]

cobain in reply

kahli and mark henry are bigmen with no wrestling skills and only undertaker has the size to make them look credible in the ring but he hardly put them over. and i dont think muhammad hassan was made to look good either.

hhh dropped the belt cleanly to chris benoit as benoit had reached a point where he had earned it. benoit couldnt clearly draw as the top guy so they gave it to orton. it was too soon for orton so hhh gets it back GOOD FOR BUSINESS. Batista gets built up as a top face and HHH again drops the belt at wrestlemania.

hhh has been cheered all his career but after losing to cena they needed to keep him away from cena he turned face, reformed dx feuding with mcmahon and then rated rko allowing cena to knock over all the heels one by one.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

The WWE is suffering from the same situation as wcw was, lack of new talent getting over, yeah you have a couple of guys who made it to main event imo edge/cena but apart from that the only potential star they have at the moment is guys like kennedy/hardy and to me, i love to watch smackdown every week to see these guys, the only place where i see alot talent getting over is ecw and thats because there is no established main eventers there to get the brand over, thats why we get to see great competitiors like cm and morrison each week, its clearly my favorite of the three brands.

No look at Raw, we have trips, shawn, umaga, ortan, thats it thats all the main eventers that are on raw, the reason is that guys are not getting over or dont have the emotional maturity to carry the company, jeff is a mianeventer in waiting, girls love him, so do children, hes pratically as baby face as cena.

the reason he isnt getting that main push is that vince keeps backing hhh, not the other way around, i remember after the last tear, trips was gonna leave and stay behind the scenes. but vince convinced him to stay.

The same with takers situation, i remember reading a column back in the 90's world of wrestling magazine that was published every month, if it was upto vince it would be triple h v everybody, even an imaginary bear.

so if people want to blame someone blame vince not trips

 

[Prince Punk]

I'd just like to say that the only reason that HHH beat Umaga up so badly when he came back was do to the fact that they needed to write umaga out of the storyline as he was suspended. As for the london & Kendrick thing he did not dominate them He attacked them while they were thinking he was with them out of "Frustration" putting him over with the fans and not hurting the tag teams image. As for taker never putting anyone over all i have to say is really? i think that he gave a pretty big jump start to Cena and Kennedys carrers just to name some recent names. again those are not the only 2 those are just 2 recent men in the past few years.

 

[Batistabomb10]

I like both Triple H and 'Taker. I think they do what they believe is good for business, and I like it. I love how Triple H goes under the ring for 'that damn sledgehammer', as J.R says. It is entertaining, and that is what they guys are SUPPOSED to do. Stop trashtalking the two of them. If they felt like they needed to lose, then they would. Triple H has lost the belt to deserving people when it was necessary, and so has the Undertaker. These two superstars are about the only two who have paid their dues enough to be in a position to help make some of these decisions.
I agree that they can seem to 'bury' guys at times, but sometimes that is required. The burial at SummerSlam of King Booker by Triple H was required. Booker's gimmick sucked, Triple H was a returning face, and Booker mocked Triple H. Burials happen by other guys, too. Khali buries a lot of the people he steps between the ropes with. Same with Mark Henry, who is just thrown in the ring with jobbers. The only difference is, they are not making those decisions, while influence is had by both Triple H and Taker. I think they both do what is good for business, bottom line!

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Triple h takes more heat for backstage polotics then he does for not losing to anyone.

It's easy for us to vilify HHH because we are all aware of the relationship he has with Vince, Stephanie, etc. He wins, we claim "politics." Cena wins, we say its "Vince's new golden boy." Orton and Batista win, it's "HHH's friends." Same with HBK.

What we don't give HHH credit for is having an eye for talent. What do you think forged the friendship between HHH and HBK? Their dedication to the business. Nobody ever questioned the fact that HHH wanted to give all of himself to professional wrestling and be the greatest ever. With that unending dedication, he has doors open to him. There is no risk of Paul Levesque coming to Vince to say "I can't handle the travel" or "I need for family time." THAT is why he gets pushed - they know he can handle it and that he WANTS it.

Undertaker is the same way, only without the father in law thing. He is WWE's longest consecutively employed superstar. He's the franchise of WWE. He has been asked to carry some 100% shit feuds (Kamala, Giant Gonzales, Undertaker #2, Mark Henry, Khali, etc.) and has done so with grace and dignity as far as we know. He's been a deadman and a biker. He got stuck mentoring Nathan Jones. When top talent (i.e.: Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, etc.) jumped to WCW, two men were left holding the WWE banner in the pre-Austin era; Taker and HBK. Taker could have gone to WCW, HHH could have returned, HBK could have gotten fed up with his love-hate relationship with Vince, but they stayed loyal. Well, loyalty rewarded!

Taker is an amazing veteran. He has earned the right not to job to just anyone. Also, how many matches has he WON but still put over the loser? Orton. Cena. RVD for the Hardcore title. Jeff Hardy in that ladder match on Raw! Just becasue he gets his hands raised doesn't mean he doesn't work to put someone over. But don't tell me that Mark Henry and Khali are deserving of that treatment. They haven't earned it.

And when Brock Lesnar was "The Next Big Thing," Taker stepped up and dropped to him in Hell in a Cell. He lost the feud to Austin. He does his job better than most, as does HHH.

 

[headake151]

In all honesty it took the undertaker years to reclaim his title and he did the company a favor by taking the title out of the hands of batista. Unfortunately, he got hurt and batista has been in every smackdown main event for about a year. UT is also going to make batista look formatable when he puts him over at CS. I do see a slight comparison but you can not compare the service UT has and still does for the company to HHH writing his own script.

HHH i think is a little bit different because he waltzes back onto raw destroying everyone. Beating booker, beating the tag champs in a handicap match, carlito goes down, benjamin goes down, he even lays out london and kendrick to take up more tv time. he comes out and pulls the same shit austin used to bothering mcmahon when he has no buisness out there.

Then Cena goes down ( who is another guy in the same category) and HHH finds the need to wear the belt for 2 hours? He beats Orton on a rollup for the title, cleanly beats an "unstopable force" in umaga and tosses orton only loses the LMS match because its his 3rd match of the night. If he wanted to put orton over they should have just made HHH vs Umaga with the winner advancing to the title match. This guy thinks it helps anyone by wearing the belt for an hour. And about him putting HBK in front of him, i think Hunter would much rather win the belt back in the main event of WM. Thats the way the dictator wants it.

P.S. If i did not feel terrible about Cena's injury i would put him into this same category.

 

[TheGreatMurphy]

The Undertaker can put people over see Mick Foley as Mankind in 96. Triple H however thinks that just because he's married to the bosses daughter and will inherit the company at some point it gives him the automatic right to bury people. Granted HHH put Beniot, Orton and Batista over only because People were sick of him winning the belt at every WM, Vince was the one that decided to put the belt on Orton to begin with tho. Lest we forget that it was Orton that was Triple H's protege at first

 

[hhhfan11]

You know i understand where everyone is coming from, hhh beating the tag champs, looking as if he is beating a weak jobber as he took umaga out (even though it was to suspension) and taking out king booker, but you have to look at it this way, who has been their breaking their balls the longest, and all of u complain that he hailed it only for an hour and then lost it to orton, and you all think he did it only to make himself look better, well think about this, he could have kept that title at no mercy and still have it, but no he decides that he is gonna let orton keep it and instead of him saying that he wanted to be in that title match this sunday, he says hand it to hbk. Is that selfish i think not. As to where i do agree with the taker thing, he does always come back, get injured, come back again and then come back adn destroy his oppents that is boring, and i hope to god he loses to edge at wrestlemania 24. you need to end this streak and make the already halfway there edge be bigger.

 

[I Suckle Off My Mother]

The only reason these Forum guys say Triple H buries other Wrestlers is because he is beating their Favorites. they need to stop favoring and make some sence. Triple H does not Burry other wrestlers. if that was the case he would have retained the title at No Mercy. but instead he put Orton over in the Last man Standing match. HHH is only doing whats best for this business. these guys that are hating on HHH won't be happy until he starts jobing and putting over all their Favorite Wrestlers. Triple H is one of the best and he can't put other guys like Carlito and Booker T over, that would make the game look weak. and he can't afford to look weak sence he is one of the main reasons ppl still watch the wwe.

 

[klunderbunker]

Personally I don't think either really have buried that many people, at least not anymore. Yes HHH did for that 1-2 year period, but think about it. Who was he going to lose to at the time? Steiner? Nash? The problem that was going on back then is the same there is now: Not enough main event level talent. HHH winning 11 titles almost had to happen due to there being no one around for him to realistically chase. In late 2002/03 most of the mid/upper card talent was on smackdown if i remember correctly. HHH had to dominate because he was the only established star around on raw.

HHH has jobbed on several occasions as already mentioned, yet he did hav the title a long time. Taker has also allowed mid carders to come up, but it's not his fault he's been in the feuds he's been in. The streak itself can hardly be considered to be his dominating. Half the people he faced at mania were matches that it was obvious he would dominte. Bundy, Snuka, Roberts, Boss Man the second Kane match. Did anyone really think he had a chance to lose? Taker does his thing and leaves, HHH dominates and "buries people" because there's no one else to take his place.

 

[Fiction]

Triple H is the guy who hasn't had a belt since WM XXI, which was two and a half years ago (unless you count his two-hour reign at No Mercy, which was done to make Orton a more hated heel). He also hasn't won a WM match at all since WM 19, even tapping out to Cena, and making Batista a first-time champion. Yes, he has beaten up on Booker, Carlito and Umaga since returning, but returning stars always win after immediately coming back, not to mention these are three mid-card guys. It's not like he was destroying the main eventers. The only reason he got pushed into the title picture is because Cena went down, and now that Michaels is back, HHH is back out of the picture. How can he be perceived as the top face at anytime in the past year? When he and Michaels reunited DX, they stepped out of the title picture, relegating to a mid-card status. And they put Rated RKO over. I just don't understand this anti-HHH sentiment. Maybe it's left over from his year of dominence in 2002? However, that is what provided for the foundation of HHH's legacy. That is the reason he can put people over, it's because he needed to be put over, not as a credible champ, but as one of the best of the era.

Taker does the same thing. He wins enough to stay credible, but still dishes plenty of wins to Lesner, Orton, Kennedy and others. Neither takes advantage of their situation, winning sometimes helps the company and the storylines. They both have the approval of at least one person who doesn't matter.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

 

[Mad Metal]

Hate the wrestler that looks too good. Triple H beat King Bookah in his WWE return. IMHO it would be very foolish not to be expecting that move as well as not to make the move of Trips going over King Bookah. It's common sense and usually happens when a big superstar makes his return. Like IrishCanadian said, if Triple H wins and goes over, we shout "politics". Since 2002 we had many top wrestlers leave including The Rock and Steve Austin. I'm sure if both of them would still be an active wrestler, they would still be on top, but (like IrishCanadian said) Triple H stayed loyal to the business. With his position as well as the son-in-law of Vince McMahon, Triple H doesn't have to do jack shit at all. Hell, like many great wrestlers from yesterday, Triple H could have called it quits and quietly retired next to The Rock & Steve Austin, but I haven't seen that just yet. In other words, if it weren't Triple H, it could be The Rock right now but sadly, The Rock didn't stay dedicated for nearly as long. And besides, Triple H became a top name PRIOR to even dating Stephanie back in mid-1999.

 

[Jonny B]

I'm only going to say this once, there is already one Thread regarding Triple H holding people down, burrying people, being the devil etc... and we dont need another one. Could you all please try to stay on topic with this one and keep it limited to Undertaker related discussion.

 

[hmsrenown]

Now HHH just picked up where he left off when he went down, and now, if he put anyone over, it's credible, cause everyone think this is the dominant trips from 02, and from where this whole thing goes, I don't think both HHH and HBK will go deep into the champion picture, cause there are really a lot of things pointing to DX appearing again (to be fair, they didn't really broke up, just injuries disrupted the course), and that would be good cause it will bring in some life in the tag team division, don't tell me I have to watch Cade & Murdoch either facing McAllisters or Londrick every week.

And as of now I can see Kennedy and Jeff Hardy getting the push to main-eventers, which they rightfully deserves so, the one who needs a push should be Benjamin, but, I don't see that coming, and I sense a wasted talent there and there only.(on raw of course)

 

[Pet Shop Boy]

I don't think Undertaker is as bad because the only person he really has buried are Batista, and Mark Henry in recent memory. I dont really like either of those two because they are boring. He usual does 'win' his feud but he puts people over like when he wrestled randy orton at wrestlemania. Undertaker is also the only guy on smackdown who gets a big enough reaction sometime Batista does too but undertaker always does.

 

[Bigmack9079]

I personally feel that Trips is the best "all around" performer in the WWE. While I don't feel that he is the be all end all, he is solid in all areas, and can out talk, out wrestle, and out entertain 90% of the business today, including TNA. As for Taker, when was the last time he wrestled an entire year without any breaks or injuries? He is a part time wrestler at best, and then demands respect. In the 22 years I've watched wrestling, I have never seen someone demand he be respected and not put in the time to show he deserves it. Maybe 15 years ago, but not today. Today's wrestlers need to put in more effort watching the greats of yesterday, (Flair, Steamboat, Savage, Windom, Austin, Vader, etc.) rather than waste their time kissing Taker's butt. If anyone uses politics to their advantage, lets point the finger in the right direction.