Does Pro-Wrestling need an offseason & trades?

[RicoLen]

All major sports out there, NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, etc. have seasons off seasons, post seasons, pre seasons, drafting, free agency, training camps etc. Why not Pro-Wrestling? I mean I get that the format is different and it'd be a huge change for the business... but even as I type this I'm thinking, not necessarily.

Right now you've got the Smackdown brand, and the Raw brand right? And right now one of the biggest complaints about the business as a whole from outsiders are that it's one of the most dangerous professions there is. So why not give these guys an off season of 3 months out of the year to recuperate? And have them alternate.

For example, put Raw on from Sept-May, and from June-August those guys get time off, and in the same timeslot you put on NXT, and cover a pho-draft for the Raw brand and offseason trades to the Smackdown brand, etc. And at the same time have the Smackdown season go from Jan-Sept and during the offseason have Tough Enough during the timeslot and do much the same thing for Smackdown that's done during the Raw offseason.

Now keep in mind, this gives you a season finale, premier, it gives the wrestlers time to spend with their families and recuperate and take care of themselves, and it gives fans time to speculate on what's going to happen during the next Raw or Smackdown season and for anticipation to build and of course that means heightened ratings for the premier and finales.

I don't know. I haven't ever considered this until just the last couple days, and this is the first time I'm attempting to discuss it with someone else, so I know the idea isn't fully fleshed out, but to me it really sounds like a no-brainer with no real downside.

What do you guys think?

 

[Tastycles]

The difference between those leagues and wrestling is that wrestling can continue without certain wrestlers perpetually, whereas the NFL could hardly exist if the New England Patriots were absent for six months. Trades and off seasons are for team sports, individual sports rarely have them, except where they need specialist conditions. Things like Golf and Tennis carry on around the year, but have a big blowout at the end. WrestleMania and Bound For Glory are the equivalent events in wrestling, with the whole year basically building up to that, but with some major events along the way. There's too much money to be had by running Raw continuously, and as individuals can take time off where necessary, there's no need for lengthy down time.

 

[RicoLen]

The difference between those leagues and wrestling is that wrestling can continue without certain wrestlers perpetually, whereas the NFL could hardly exist if the New England Patriots were absent for six months. Trades and off seasons are for team sports, individual sports rarely have them, except where they need specialist conditions. Things like Golf and Tennis carry on around the year, but have a big blowout at the end. WrestleMania and Bound For Glory are the equivalent events in wrestling, with the whole year basically building up to that, but with some major events along the way. There's too much money to be had by running Raw continuously, and as individuals can take time off where necessary, there's no need for lengthy down time.

Yeah, that's the conventional wisdom, certainly. That was my original thought about it when the idea first struck me too, but how often are people complaining that someone is getting stale, or this feud or that match is getting old. I mean seriously, how many times over the last year have we seen CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio?

By condensing feuds and having an off season where they make trades from Raw to Smackdown and making it a storyline, you're inventing a new venue of storylines that doesn't really exist except for 1 night a year during the draft. With the shorter time period for storylines you're going to get the feud to be more potent, and less drawn out.

In the long run, and this holds true for other sports venues as well, the off season is crucial for building anticipation for what's to come. So while Raw might get 4 million viewers now, it could turn out (obviously I'm just speculating, but it stands to reason) that Raw would get 6, or 7 million viewers because of the hyping up of the new Raw season while they're showing NXT and covering trade negotiations, and stoking the fires for new feuds that won't see any real action until the start of the new season.

And again, a big thing here is the wellness program that has been so badly under fire the last several years would benefit greatly from something like this.

So yeah, obviously it's not needed in the sense that it can keep going, but might it benefit from the downtime and reach higher than it has been in the past by doing so? Fact is, it wouldn't even really be a downtime, it'd be a temporary change of venue to something not seen in pro-wrestling before. It seems like there's a lot of possibilities for something really great to come from it to me.

Is there a reason NOT to do it?

One thing that comes to mind is that you probably wouldn't see too many debuts of new wrestlers except for a handful at the start of the new season, so guys like Alex Riley, "Silent Rage", Joe Hennig, Alberto Del Rio, Sin Cara, etc wouldn't just randomly show up to inject new blood into the lineup, they'd get hyped (like some of them already were) on the NXT or Tough Enough series, and then get their Raw or Smackdown debuts all the same night.

Honestly, I'd like to see it tried out with some other wrestling promotion at the very least. Something like that might really be what TNA Impact needs to become a real competitor.

EDIT: On another note,

things like Golf and Tennis carry on around the year, but have a big blowout at the end. WrestleMania and Bound For Glory are the equivalent events in wrestling, with the whole year basically building up to that

Bound for Glory really? Man I have been away for too long.

 

[Jeff]

I mentioned this before in a few posts but I would love to see WWE make a 3rd brand, for the fun of it let's call it Heat. Heat would be taped in a studio, just like how TNA does Impact Wrestling at the Impact Zone. Now I can see why people would hate this idea but I think it would be beneficially for the wrestlers, as well as make a better product.

1) We all know wrestlers need breaks from the travel so why not give them a brand where they can go for let's say 4 months at a time and they don't have to travel, besides back and forth to the studio and maybe to the PPVs. It could give wrestlers a well deserved break. We all know WWE has gotten crap in the past about the way they treat their wrestlers, so they might as well do something that is good for them.

2) With a studio show you might be able to steal away a lot of the guys from TNA who aren't in the WWE because of the work scheduled. I am mainly speaking about Kurt Angle, but maybe Jericho might of been interested in going to this third brand, rather then leaving the company. Maybe a guy like Batista who is attempting to do other things outside of wrestling might be interested in this brand due to the ease of the schedule. Maybe even Undertaker might be interested in returning more on a full time basis rather then making a few appearances here and there.

Creating a third brand would take away any form of need of a off season, which by the way would never happen since it would be a poor business move. This third brand could be their off season, but still keep the wrestlers relevant. Also at the same time it could be the brand that kills TNA (not saying that is a good thing, just saying from a WWE business perspective it is smart)

 

[RicoLen]

That's actually a pretty good idea having a 3rd brand. I like that idea too.

However, Why do you think having an off season would be a poor business move? Because you think that the NXT/Tough Enough show/offseason coverage idea would do so badly in ratings that the inevitable increase in ratings during the "on" season wouldn't make up for it?

 

[Dagger Dias]

I don't think that's a very good idea. The thought of wrestling having an offseason has been discussed before and there is no need for one. Guys take time off, and others are pushed in their place until they return. It happens all the time. To take an entire brand off the air for an offseason, even for a month or two, would be a bad idea because people tune in weekly to watch it and would be upset when it goes off the air. They might not be as likely to want to watch it once it comes back on. The fact that it never ends and EVERY week has a new episode is part of what's great about Raw and Smackdown. Changing that would make too many people angry. The main argument in favor of an offseason always tends to be getting time off for some of the guys, which they do anyhow. There's always someone else to push, and fans tune in on a weekly basis. No need to make any drastic changes.

 

[Jeff]

That's actually a pretty good idea having a 3rd brand. I like that idea too.

However, Why do you think having an off season would be a poor business move? Because you think that the NXT/Tough Enough show/offseason coverage idea would do so badly in ratings that the inevitable increase in ratings during the "on" season wouldn't make up for it?

I just don't see it doing even as close as the standard ratings but who knows. Tough Enough is the only show I can see possibly being able to get a large rating but still nowhere as good as Raw or Smackdown. NXT I believe is a failed concept, however maybe it being once a year could be a good thing.

Offseason coverage wouldn't do squat though. First off the thing NFL,NBA,MLB has to it's advantage is that it is a true sport, not sports entertainment. Getting traded from Smackdown to Raw doesn't really mean anything besides what night you are going to watch them. Secondly, teams are in competition for something so someone getting traded to your team in the NFL or MLB mean something because now your team is better or worse and. Like before, getting traded in the WWE doesn't mean anything besides what night you are on.

Lastly, I agree that wrestlers need time off, but why do they all need to have the same time off and bring their main product to a halt. Business wise I think their are better ways of doing it. Having converge shows, nxt, tough enough is great but still can be aired when WWE has other programming on. The more programming they have on, the more money they make.

I am not saying I hate the idea of giving people breaks, I am 100% for it, but I think there would be better ways that wouldn't take away from the product.

 

[RicoLen]

I just don't see it doing even as close as the standard ratings but who knows. Tough Enough is the only show I can see possibly being able to get a large rating but still nowhere as good as Raw or Smackdown. NXT I believe is a failed concept, however maybe it being once a year could be a good thing.

See I would expect lower ratings during the offseason, but I think that it's a given that ratings during the "on" season would be higher than it would be otherwise, and I think it would probably even out at worse and be a fair bit better at best.

Getting traded from Smackdown to Raw doesn't really mean anything besides what night you are going to watch them. Secondly, teams are in competition for something so someone getting traded to your team in the NFL or MLB mean something because now your team is better or worse and. Like before, getting traded in the WWE doesn't mean anything besides what night you are on.

That is a good point. I can't think of anything off the top of my head to combat that either. It could theoretically open the door for a much stronger tag team division, and maybe even an expanded tag team division, like a 4-man team division with title belt, or a 3v3 last man standing division where all competitors fight in the ring at the same time. But even as I write it I see some serious flaws in that concept as well. Though perhaps with a ring a little bigger and more like TNA's old octagon that could be an interesting division. Kinda like WoW's 3v3 Arena pvp lol.

But yeah you're right, that wouldn't be too big of a deal, and if you changed the ring that's really stretching the limits of what's feasible, so probably not a good idea there. Even so, you can still hype up roster changes better than they have been now, and talk about possibilities and hype up feuds through twitter and such, kind of like Cena & Rock are doing, and have that be kind of a thing they do during the offseason, and then when the season starts back up they could really just burst out of the gates with all new storylines, new characters, etc.

I get what you're saying about the offseason coverage though, I don't think it'd be anywhere near as big of a deal as I was originally thinking it would be.

BTW. Thanks for having an intelligent discussion about it with me. I really didn't want to hear the typical, "why would you do that?" or "There's no need" kind of arguments. I wanted to delve a little more deeply into it, to either prove to myself that it'd work and be a good idea, if risky, or that it really couldn't work, and have a good reason as to why it couldn't.

 

[Jeff]

See I would expect lower ratings during the offseason, but I think that it's a given that ratings during the "on" season would be higher than it would be otherwise, and I think it would probably even out at worse and be a fair bit better at best.

That is a good point. I can't think of anything off the top of my head to combat that either. It could theoretically open the door for a much stronger tag team division, and maybe even an expanded tag team division, like a 4-man team division with title belt, or a 3v3 last man standing division where all competitors fight in the ring at the same time. But even as I write it I see some serious flaws in that concept as well. Though perhaps with a ring a little bigger and more like TNA's old octagon that could be an interesting division. Kinda like WoW's 3v3 Arena pvp lol.

But yeah you're right, that wouldn't be too big of a deal, and if you changed the ring that's really stretching the limits of what's feasible, so probably not a good idea there. Even so, you can still hype up roster changes better than they have been now, and talk about possibilities and hype up feuds through twitter and such, kind of like Cena & Rock are doing, and have that be kind of a thing they do during the offseason, and then when the season starts back up they could really just burst out of the gates with all new storylines, new characters, etc.

I get what you're saying about the offseason coverage though, I don't think it'd be anywhere near as big of a deal as I was originally thinking it would be.

BTW. Thanks for having an intelligent discussion about it with me. I really didn't want to hear the typical, "why would you do that?" or "There's no need" kind of arguments. I wanted to delve a little more deeply into it, to either prove to myself that it'd work and be a good idea, if risky, or that it really couldn't work, and have a good reason as to why it couldn't.

I understand you see the low ratings during off season, but I don't see the on season ratings improving much more unless their product improves. Maybe something like this could spark a lot of creative ideas for a more exciting product, like you were talking about with expanded tag team, 3 vs 3, etc. but even just looking at this message board, I think there are a ton of amazing ideas to make the current product fresh and exciting, but it just comes down to laziness of the WWE Creative staff.

I think your idea would be perfect for a new start up wrestling company that is going for a more realistic approach. Start divisions, even have teams (stables), with in season trades, firings, etc. that could add a lot to the storyline. For example Wrestler A is traded from Team A to Team B. Now he may want to feud with Team B. Also I see this concept working better if they do either a Championship at the end of the season (Like the Bound of Glory Series that is currently going on in TNA). Have the wins and losses matter, then at the end of the season, the big PPV has the championship match. I like the idea and I think it could be a fantastic product but not just for the WWE.

Lastly, I agree with you 100% about having an actual intelligent debate for once. I hate when people just rip apart your idea without providing any reasoning, or when someone is unwilling to change their opinion after some good arguments. I at first hated this idea, but now I am kind of into it if it was for another company. Maybe, for like ROH. Great debate, I am certainly giving you some rep for this.

 

[RicoLen]

See when it comes to the ratings, typically most returning shows, whether sporting seasons or just a TV drama or comedy, see big ratings for their opener, and then depending on how things go from their they either rise or fall, but the opener is one of the high points of the season. It get's plenty of time to get hyped, everyone knows when it's going to be on, and interest is usually pretty good, from there it's all about the quality of show in general.

Right now, I think the WWE product is pretty damned good, and it seems like to me that only Wrestlemania serves as a diving in point for fans. I know for me, even though I didn't watch from about 2004 until 2010, I would still return the monday night after Wrestlemania (also the Saturday before to see the HoF ceremony) to see what's going on and if I wanted to continue watching. But to me, Wrestlemania is like the climax of the story for so many feuds. The Monday after is like the start of a whole new season. But you never really know what's going to happen ahead of time. With an off season and time to hype the season opener, it gives people time to catch up with what's going on and decide whether or not they're interested in what may be in store.

That's the point too, I've fallen out of the 'know' of what's going on in wrestling 3 different times, and each time it was a pain in the butt to get back into what was going on and give a damn about anyone, especially when the cast is 80% new from the last time I was watching. With an off season they can do something to address that issue, because I'm sure I'm not the only one that has a hard time getting back into it. They can show vignettes that cover the previous seasons storylines for a specific wrestler so that when the new season starts you're not left going, "who the hell is this and why should I care?"

Also I think their product would necessarily improve simply due to the fact that things wouldn't be able to get stale, the compressed timeframe would make all the feuds and storylines more potent, and I think that would improve ratings when they know that they won't be able to watch the Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk match 3 weeks in a row so they'll just catch the last one and call it good.

The more we talk about it though, the more I think it is far better suited for a new wrestling company as well. It's just too drastic, but I do think the idea might work. Especially if you're treating all the matches as a win-loss record and towards the end you have a tournament like King of the Ring where those with the best win loss records get to take part, and as a finale you have the "all-stars" kind of PPV which would obviously be equivalent to Wrestlemania. It'd be kinda like having King of the Ring in place of the Royal Rumble, except where the winner of the King of the Ring would get the title and then defend it at Wrestlemania instead of getting a chance to challenge for the title at Wrestlemania.

After sitting on it a bit, I do like the idea of a 3v3 match in TNA's old octagon. Have falls count within the ring area (not in the bleachers or the isle or something but just in the ring and on the floor immediately outside the ring) no countout, but you can keep the DQs, and have it be last man standing rules, so you could have 1 3v3 match take a full 45 minutes or better and still have as much as 5 pinfalls in a single match.

You've definitely convinced me it's not for the WWE though, that's for sure. It could definitely be a fun venue for a different organization though.

 

[Jeff]

See when it comes to the ratings, typically most returning shows, whether sporting seasons or just a TV drama or comedy, see big ratings for their opener, and then depending on how things go from their they either rise or fall, but the opener is one of the high points of the season. It get's plenty of time to get hyped, everyone knows when it's going to be on, and interest is usually pretty good, from there it's all about the quality of show in general.

Right now, I think the WWE product is pretty damned good, and it seems like to me that only Wrestlemania serves as a diving in point for fans. I know for me, even though I didn't watch from about 2004 until 2010, I would still return the monday night after Wrestlemania (also the Saturday before to see the HoF ceremony) to see what's going on and if I wanted to continue watching. But to me, Wrestlemania is like the climax of the story for so many feuds. The Monday after is like the start of a whole new season. But you never really know what's going to happen ahead of time. With an off season and time to hype the season opener, it gives people time to catch up with what's going on and decide whether or not they're interested in what may be in store.

First off funny note that I stopped watching WWE about the same time frame. Little earlier, though, like 2002 - 2010. I agree with that statement though that an off season would give time to let people catch up, however I think in modern days the Internet could be a better tool for that. It would be so easy for a company like WWE or TNA to create something online to allow for people to catch up. Maybe they make a site with a calender on it, all you have to do is click a date and see what happen on that date. Maybe they can post videos often about a recap of the current story line, things that they kind of do anyways with just show previews to hype up their product.

However though, with an off season people may quickly become dis interested in the product too. I don't know how many times I was hooked on a show for a season or two, then one season I just stopped watching it because I forgot about it. At least with WWE not having an offseason, you don't have time to get dis interested in it.

Also like you said, it is tough to get back into it, but it is also tough to get off it. I know I don't want to stop watching wrestling because of not wanting to have to figure out what the hell is going on again when I want to start watching it again.

That's the point too, I've fallen out of the 'know' of what's going on in wrestling 3 different times, and each time it was a pain in the butt to get back into what was going on and give a damn about anyone, especially when the cast is 80% new from the last time I was watching. With an off season they can do something to address that issue, because I'm sure I'm not the only one that has a hard time getting back into it. They can show vignettes that cover the previous seasons storylines for a specific wrestler so that when the new season starts you're not left going, "who the hell is this and why should I care?"

Like I said before, I can only speak for myself, but I don't stop watching wrestling for that very reason. I know eventually the program will turn around (recently it has been really exciting to watch) so I keep watching just so I don't have to get back into it because it is tough.

Also I think their product would necessarily improve simply due to the fact that things wouldn't be able to get stale, the compressed timeframe would make all the feuds and storylines more potent, and I think that would improve ratings when they know that they won't be able to watch the Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk match 3 weeks in a row so they'll just catch the last one and call it good.

True, but it also will provide less time for character development. The thing about wrestling is you really don't know when a wrestler will strike gold with his promo or have a match that changes the way all the fans look at him.

The one thing I like about this though is the fact that with a off season it may provide the creative team to write some really interesting stories. However if the stories they write aren't hits, then it will be tough to want to watch the product.

The more we talk about it though, the more I think it is far better suited for a new wrestling company as well. It's just too drastic, but I do think the idea might work. Especially if you're treating all the matches as a win-loss record and towards the end you have a tournament like King of the Ring where those with the best win loss records get to take part, and as a finale you have the "all-stars" kind of PPV which would obviously be equivalent to Wrestlemania. It'd be kinda like having King of the Ring in place of the Royal Rumble, except where the winner of the King of the Ring would get the title and then defend it at Wrestlemania instead of getting a chance to challenge for the title at Wrestlemania.

It all depends on if a company wants to focus on the Sports side of it or the Entertainment side of it. WWE and TNA want to focus on the Entertainment side of things. If a company focused on the sports side of things this would be a great approach.

After sitting on it a bit, I do like the idea of a 3v3 match in TNA's old octagon. Have falls count within the ring area (not in the bleachers or the isle or something but just in the ring and on the floor immediately outside the ring) no countout, but you can keep the DQs, and have it be last man standing rules, so you could have 1 3v3 match take a full 45 minutes or better and still have as much as 5 pinfalls in a single match.

You've definitely convinced me it's not for the WWE though, that's for sure. It could definitely be a fun venue for a different organization though.

Yeah I love the idea of adding more 3v3 matches, Tag matches, Battle Royals, etc. things the WWE rarely do anymore. I think if a company thought of it more in a sports eye, they could really get a lot of people interested, and be able to provide feuds based on winning the Championship/Title or whatever the prize maybe. The biggest problem I have with WWE right now is there main event titles don't mean squat. An idea like this would always keep the World Title important and provide for the easiest stories for writers, stories about the title.