Do you think the large roster is the reason why nobody can really break through? | Page 2 | WrestleZone Forums

Do you think the large roster is the reason why nobody can really break through?

You go and say I'm bias toward balor promo ability yet everytime I bring something up about somebody you like, you go and so your bias toward reigns.
Bias towards Roman Reigns? You say as if I hate him. I like him. I just amn't a fan of his overpush. No one should be overpushed. Bálor's push upon joining main roster was wrong as well.

At less reigns is able to think on his feet when he delivers a promo and doesn't fell like he's reading a promo like balor is. Like I said before, I'm a fan of balor, I think he a really good wrestler but promo's isn't his strong suit and it shows.
The thing is that I agree that he isn't strong on promos. But referring him as worst promo is totally exaggerating. That's what I said. I amn't saying that he's Rock or something on mic.

As far as reaction is concern, it depends on where they are, last monday night he had a great reaction for what was a really bad promo segment, yet in another market, he would have cut the same promo and nobody would hae cared.
You said that you could hear crickets during his latest promo. I nullified your point by proof. Now, you saying that it was a great reaction. Which one is it?

I don't want to attack anybody with my opinion and I never wanted my opinion to be facts but for some reasons, some of the more immature fans on this board can't have a intelligent discussion without getting all upset because I don't have the same opinions as them or the same views on the product as them.
I didn't attack you. I just asked how you saw some other form of what I saw. That promo was well recieved. But you stated as if it wasn't received well. It's not attacking.


I like certains wrestlers and hate other, I see flaws in certains performers game and that for some reason piss people off because I see flaws in their favorite.
Flaws in my favorite? That doesn't piss me off. Being biased does. You stating just the opposite of what happened in case of someone you don't like much is biased.

In the end, I'm kinda thinking that I wasn't meant for discussing wrestling with today's wrestling fans because everytime that you write something they don't like, they get angry and insult you instead of having a intelligent conversation, so for now, I decided that this isn't worth it anymore, I'm not going to risk my well being because people don't like what I write and would rather insult you then actually get your point, so I m7ght post on other boards on this site but as far as the WWE one, I'm done.
I didn't insult you. It’s not about liking something you write. It's about stating something that didn't happen. Stop that. Plus, don't think that people base their opinions just on Meltzer if they don't agree with your opinion. Just like the exaggerating comparison between Cena & Mahal.
 
The main reason is because Vince has his guys he wants at top and that's it. He's become very stubborn with this over the years and as soon as someone is getting a little too much steam he makes sure that's as far as they're gonna go.
 
The reason "nobody can really break through" is because they're not pushing YOUR personal favorites.

And the big problem with this crazy talented roster is that the overwhelming majority of them just don''t have the charisma to become a main player. Being the greatest technical stuntman in the world is going to connect if you can't get people to care about their character. Charisma and character work is the most important thing in professional wrestling, and a performer has "it" or they don't. Most of the ringwork guys the internet froths at the mouth over simply don't have "it".
 
The main reason is because Vince has his guys he wants at top and that's it. He's become very stubborn with this over the years and as soon as someone is getting a little too much steam he makes sure that's as far as they're gonna go.

It's not like he wasn't like this before 2015, anyone remember him trying to push Lex as the next Hulk Hogan?

What about Sgt. Slaughter as an Iraqi sympathizer?

And lest we forget about the Montreal Screwjob.

In short: Vince has always been stubborn over what he wants to do. It kind of comes with the package.
 
Bias towards Roman Reigns? You say as if I hate him. I like him. I just amn't a fan of his overpush. No one should be overpushed. Bálor's push upon joining main roster was wrong as well.


The thing is that I agree that he isn't strong on promos. But referring him as worst promo is totally exaggerating. That's what I said. I amn't saying that he's Rock or something on mic.


You said that you could hear crickets during his latest promo. I nullified your point by proof. Now, you saying that it was a great reaction. Which one is it?


I didn't attack you. I just asked how you saw some other form of what I saw. That promo was well recieved. But you stated as if it wasn't received well. It's not attacking.



Flaws in my favorite? That doesn't piss me off. Being biased does. You stating just the opposite of what happened in case of someone you don't like much is biased.


I didn't insult you. It’s not about liking something you write. It's about stating something that didn't happen. Stop that. Plus, don't think that people base their opinions just on Meltzer if they don't agree with your opinion. Just like the exaggerating comparison between Cena & Mahal.

I just wanted to say that i don't care if people do or don't agree with my opinion, i really don't mind, what i do mind is when stuff is taken out of context and twisted around. Personally, 9 times out 10, i like having discussion with you and other peoples on the board because everybody as different opinions and that'S o.k. In this case, this was something that was going on between me and another guy on the board and that's mostly because of some of the stuff he wrote in his first comment about how my comment gave him cancer which i took a lot of offense to. it really had nothing to do with you in this case and i guess when you started replying to my comments, i took it out on you and not and it wasn't fair.

The fact is, i don'T follow wrestling on the internet as much as some of you so i base my opinion a lot on what i see on t.v and what i hear on Live audio wrestling plus. So again, this had nothing to do with you really, i was just vanting because i feel like everytime somebody doesn't like what i write about their favorite, they always bring up Reigns and it'S becoming irritating.

I'm still taking a break from this board but if you want to talk Impact wrestling or anything else, i will continue to post on theses from time to time.
 
You go and say I'm bias toward balor promo ability yet everytime I bring something up about somebody you like, you go and so your bias toward reigns. At less reigns is able to think on his feet when he delivers a promo and doesn't fell like he's reading a promo like balor is

Yeah that promo Reigns had against Cena really showed he knows how to think on his feet especially when he forgot his lines and got ripped to shreds.

Like I said before, I'm a fan of balor, I think he a really good wrestler but promo's isn't his strong suit and it shows. As far as reaction is concern, it depends on where they are, last monday night he had a great reaction for what was a really bad promo segment, yet in another market, he would have cut the same promo and nobody would hae cared.

You said earlier his promo on Monday got crickets, now you are saying he got a great reaction. You are just backtracking what you said because people are calling you out on your bullshit. One of the posters here that lives in India even said you have no idea what you are talking about when you mentioned that Jinder is as big as Cena in India.

I don't want to attack anybody with my opinion and I never wanted my opinion to be facts but for some reasons, some of the more immature fans on this board can't have a intelligent discussion without getting all upset because I don't have the same opinions as them or the same views on the product as them.

I remember you insulted me and insinuated that I am a 13 year old living with Mom and Dad. That sounds like attacking to me. Your age says you are 38 years old. If that is true then why are you on here attacking other people that don't like Jinder Mahal and making up stories about how huge he is in India? That personally sounds like someone living with mom and dad still. You might want to have them to proof read your forum posts as well before posting.

In the end, I'm kinda thinking that I wasn't meant for discussing wrestling with today's wrestling fans because everytime that you write something they don't like, they get angry and insult you instead of having a intelligent conversation, so for now, I decided that this isn't worth it anymore, I'm not going to risk my well being because people don't like what I write and would rather insult you then actually get your point, so I m7ght post on other boards on this site but as far as the WWE one, I'm done.

I am all for having intelligent discussions. Just not with people like you. You said it's not worth it anymore but then you posted again right after. No you are not done, you will reply to me with another post consisting of nonsensical rambling. Even if that's true it would be nice for you not to post again and I don't think anyone would be complaining if you didn't.
 
You said earlier his promo on Monday got crickets, now you are saying he got a great reaction. You are just backtracking what you said because people are calling you out on your bullshit. One of the posters here that lives in India even said you have no idea what you are talking about when you mentioned that Jinder is as big as Cena in India

Sorry about that, i was still mad at you for the cancer comment you did in a earlier post which pretty much started this whole rambling bit on my part. Again sorry for everything.

I remember you insulted me and insinuated that I am a 13 year old living with Mom and Dad. That sounds like attacking to me. Your age says you are 38 years old. If that is true then why are you on here attacking other people that don't like Jinder Mahal and making up stories about how huge he is in India? That personally sounds like someone living with mom and dad still. You might want to have them to proof read your forum posts as well before posting.

Again sorry about that, but you started it with the cancer comment. That comment on your first post was what started this whole mess in the first place, please be careful when you write stupid stuff like that on a wrestling board, some peoples might get offended when you joke about stuff like cancer.



I am all for having intelligent discussions. Just not with people like you. You said it's not worth it anymore but then you posted again right after. No you are not done, you will reply to me with another post consisting of nonsensical rambling. Even if that's true it would be nice for you not to post again and I don't think anyone would be complaining if you didn't.

Personally i do want to take a break from this board mostly because i do feel that just one dumb comment like the one you post about how my post gave you cancer can set me up and make me angry which isn't worth it. I do have a lot of intelligent discussion with others on this board and while we don't agree on everything, we don't insult each other or post stupid joke.

Again, i'm sorry for letting this get out of control the way it did, it wasn't my intention at all. If you want to make fun of me because of this, i don't care. I just needed to write this apology so that i could clear my conscience and stop thinking about it.

P.S.: in a way, i'm kinda like Jim Cornette, i can have a intelligent discussion about pro wrestling but don't make me angry because that's when i start to ramble and when i'm mad, i'm normally don't make sense. With that said, that's the last for me on the WWE board for awhile.
 
After reading all this, one thing I can say is Jinder isn't really popular in India just like someone said earlier you can ask most Indians from India, US, and Canada and they will tell you they never heard of Jinder but they know WWE. If Jinder was so popular in India why did they need Khali to come in and give him the ok for Indians to consider him and Khali their beloved hero still can't get him over that's why he had him hold and raise the championship. He is not even close to a Cena among Indians. I guarantee that if Shinsuke won the WWE title it would of been front page news in Japan like it was when he was coming to WWE. Not when Jinder won it didn't make back page news in India. Which means once again they are not good at booking. And if WWE and their share holders are relying on Roman Reigns and they think that will lift them to the next generation they will go out of business because No one is gonna care no one really cares about even hating Roman Reigns to even buy a ticket to see who will finally beat him. That's unfortunate and bring the shield back isn't gonna help or gain that factor in for him either. Finn cuts good promos by the way he just doesn't get enough TV time to cut one that maybe most of you would like but he and Nakamura have all the potential all to carry WWE to the next generation they have to book it properly. Merch sales prove it same way it did with Punk and Bryan
 
The India thing is a misnomer... it's not about appeasing Indian fans, but Indian networks and promoters. WWE want to run more shows there, they want high paying TV deals there... so that means they need a local star those networks and promoters can sell to local fans. TNA tried it with Shera and to a lesser extent Sonjay Dutt when they expanded there...

As TV deals drop everywhere else, a bigger TV deal in foreign markets like India, which are relatively unexploited can temper those drops in revenue. China is next, you watch...
 
If I had to point the finger as to why so many wrestlers have such a hard time, I'd point it at the match between Kane and Finn Balor on Raw this past Monday. Something that we have seen frequently over the course of the last several 4 or 5 years has been Vince McMahon doing something to kill the momentum of young stars, that something is usually having those stars turn around and job out to the older wrestlers on the roster instead of using those older wrestlers to build them up. We've seen it done with Bray Wyatt, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Rusev, Shinsuke Nakamura, Bayley, Sasha Banks and just about anyone else who's debuted on the main roster in the last 5 years at one time or another. Of the current crop talent that's come up in that time span, the only one that's really gotten a consistent build has been Roman Reigns.

On Raw this past Monday, after just coming off a big win over AJ Styles, universally hailed as one of the best in-ring talents in the world for the past 15 years, in a great match, Balor is turned around and squashed by Kane in a 7 minute match. Kane has been around for 20 years, he's already over and is as over as he's going to be; the best years of his career are behind him and squashing Finn Balor just so he can look like a monster against Braun Strowman accomplished nothing except stall Balor's momentum. If they wanted to have Kane squash someone, there's a locker room full of guys who aren't doing anything; I mean, were Curt Hawkins or Apollo Crews busy?

If you're an older fan, like me, and you hear younger fans in their teens and 20s saying something about how modern stars just don't really compare to those of 20-25 years ago, what happened on Monday is one of the primary reasons why they feel that way. Stone Cold Steve Austin didn't win KOTR in 1996 and then job to Jake Roberts a week later on Raw, the Rock didn't beat Austin to win the Intercontinental Championship in December 1997 and embark on the longest IC title run of the past 20 years only to job out in his nontitle matches, Triple H didn't job out to the Big Boss Man to look like a weak heel champion the night after beating Cactus Jack inside Hell in a Cell. Vince goes out of his way, whenever he can, for whatever reason, to make the modern crop of stars look vulnerable unless they have a certain look that appeals to him.

Why does he do this? This is just a shot in the dark but I'm of the opinion that Vince believes that WWE's future is beyond secure, that it's such an established brand and force that he doesn't have to worry about making modern stars look as prominent as AE era stars. I think he feels that fans are going to tune in regardless and he's probably right because he knows that there's no other wrestling promotion on Earth that can even remotely touch WWE in terms of being a competitor. He'd deny it of course, just like he said on the infamous Stone Cold podcast interview that it was never about what he wanted and that it was all about the fans.
 
The large roster is part of the problem, but booking is ultimately to blame.

Yes, WWE can be good (and really good) at times. Yes, I still watch the product (not EVERY show but mostly).

However at the end of the day, my opinion doesn't matter. The fans really don't matter. It's all about what Vince wants.

Look no further than Roman Reigns. He's maybe the most hated face of all time, yet he's about to headline his fourth straight WrestleMania.

Jinder Mahal is WWE Champion on the same roster that has AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, Kevin Owens, and Randy Orton.

These are just two examples, and there are many others. You can say it's no big deal, but when you got empty seats and lower ratings than ever before, then there is a problem. I don't see it getting any better unless Vince changes his mindset and starts listening to fans more.
 
If I had to point the finger as to why so many wrestlers have such a hard time, I'd point it at the match between Kane and Finn Balor on Raw this past Monday. Something that we have seen frequently over the course of the last several 4 or 5 years has been Vince McMahon doing something to kill the momentum of young stars, that something is usually having those stars turn around and job out to the older wrestlers on the roster instead of using those older wrestlers to build them up. We've seen it done with Bray Wyatt, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Rusev, Shinsuke Nakamura, Bayley, Sasha Banks and just about anyone else who's debuted on the main roster in the last 5 years at one time or another. Of the current crop talent that's come up in that time span, the only one that's really gotten a consistent build has been Roman Reigns.

On Raw this past Monday, after just coming off a big win over AJ Styles, universally hailed as one of the best in-ring talents in the world for the past 15 years, in a great match, Balor is turned around and squashed by Kane in a 7 minute match. Kane has been around for 20 years, he's already over and is as over as he's going to be; the best years of his career are behind him and squashing Finn Balor just so he can look like a monster against Braun Strowman accomplished nothing except stall Balor's momentum. If they wanted to have Kane squash someone, there's a locker room full of guys who aren't doing anything; I mean, were Curt Hawkins or Apollo Crews busy?

If you're an older fan, like me, and you hear younger fans in their teens and 20s saying something about how modern stars just don't really compare to those of 20-25 years ago, what happened on Monday is one of the primary reasons why they feel that way. Stone Cold Steve Austin didn't win KOTR in 1996 and then job to Jake Roberts a week later on Raw, the Rock didn't beat Austin to win the Intercontinental Championship in December 1997 and embark on the longest IC title run of the past 20 years only to job out in his nontitle matches, Triple H didn't job out to the Big Boss Man to look like a weak heel champion the night after beating Cactus Jack inside Hell in a Cell. Vince goes out of his way, whenever he can, for whatever reason, to make the modern crop of stars look vulnerable unless they have a certain look that appeals to him.

Why does he do this? This is just a shot in the dark but I'm of the opinion that Vince believes that WWE's future is beyond secure, that it's such an established brand and force that he doesn't have to worry about making modern stars look as prominent as AE era stars. I think he feels that fans are going to tune in regardless and he's probably right because he knows that there's no other wrestling promotion on Earth that can even remotely touch WWE in terms of being a competitor. He'd deny it of course, just like he said on the infamous Stone Cold podcast interview that it was never about what he wanted and that it was all about the fans.

No actually. Vince did this because Vince cares only about specific wrestlers. These wrestlers include Roman Reigns and Braun Strowman. Braun Strowman is set to face Kane. So in order for Strowman to look strong after this, he has to beat a strong Kane. That's why Kane beat Balor who had just defeated Styles.

Bad desicion? Yes. I'd actually call it short-sighted. Kane didn't really neeed that. That match shouldn't have actually taken place. You can book Demon King vs Demon Kane and you give out this match on TV? Horrendous.
 
The large roster is part of the problem, but booking is ultimately to blame.

Yes, WWE can be good (and really good) at times. Yes, I still watch the product (not EVERY show but mostly).

However at the end of the day, my opinion doesn't matter. The fans really don't matter. It's all about what Vince wants.

Look no further than Roman Reigns. He's maybe the most hated face of all time, yet he's about to headline his fourth straight WrestleMania.

Jinder Mahal is WWE Champion on the same roster that has AJ Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura, Kevin Owens, and Randy Orton.

These are just two examples, and there are many others. You can say it's no big deal, but when you got empty seats and lower ratings than ever before, then there is a problem. I don't see it getting any better unless Vince changes his mindset and starts listening to fans more.

Here's the deal though. The fans react. They reacted big time to Cena vs Reigns, they boo Mahal, they cheer for Brock and chant Suplex City. They want to see Lesnar spam 15 suplexes and hit 1 F5 to win, against any opponent.

They are drawing double tickets compared to previous years, ever since the brand split happened.

However there seems to be a big difference between the fans who attend the events and the fans who watch at home. Roman gets booed at arenas, fans are bored by him at home, but he's their #1 seller. How can that be?

People react to Mahal and constantly chant USA! USA! and boo him.

Fans react to anything that's being pushed as a main event. They're like sheeps. And they follow anything that's pushed as a main event. However these main eventers don't bring in new audience. So WWE's whole policy is react in any way or leave, instead of being stay or don't react at all, if you get what I'm saying.

If Mahal was competing in mute crowds, then Vince would get the message. Same goes for Roman.
 
Like mention above, the fans in the arena will react to the main event talents so while the tv viewers find guys like reigns and mahal boring, in the arenas they get reactions so that's how they feel who works and who don't work. If fans would sit on their hand then vince would stop pushing them and would move on the next guy on the list.

In the end, we have the ultimate power on who they push and who they don't push. The more we react to a performer, the more they wil get behind them. Wins and lost don't really matters to them, it's all about characters and how much of a connection thoses characters have with the fans.

So while, they could have use anybody to lose to kane on monday, they needed a big name that fans cared about to lose to kane to make him look strong going into his feud with strowman. Balor is pretty much on standby right now until they can continue and conclude his feud with bray wyatt. When wyatt returns, balor will go back to winning and made to look strong going into his match with lesnar at the rumble.
 

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