Do WWE need to change the heel/face concept?

[thewrestleranurag900]

Actually,after seeing randy orton this question arised in my mind.In most of the feuds in wwe,face is dominant in wwe.Most of the times heel is weaker than the face.I mean most of the times heel backout of the challenges.I know randy orton is a tweener.So wwe need to make heels that are dominant over face and can beat them cleanly.

 

[straightedge martyr]

i agree with you on this, although the heels on get on top in promos and such, they rarely get over a face cleanly, especially at a ppv. i would love to see a monster heel that not only dominated on raw/smackdown and beat guys up every week; but then win cleanly in multiple ppva without being overcome by SuperCena or someone similar.

The faces alsways get up in the end though, because thats what the kids want. in the pg era, most of the entertainment side is based around kids, and as much as i would love to see a powerful heel, its not in vince's best intrests as the kids only want to see their favourites on top.

 

[Decarow]

The purpose of the heel is to get the face over. They have to try and make it almost impossible for the face to win, hence why they sometimes look weak when they run away.

 

[MCMG]

i don't think that is always the case as heels have beet faces cleanly in the past. Could say swagger beating Orton at extreme rules was an example. Heels are meant to cheat to victory thats what makes them.

 

[thepalaceprince]

I agree. I understand the point of heels cheating to win but basically every single heel wins by cheating or retains a title by dq at ppv's. Im not sayin stop doing that but just give us less of it. Id love to see a guy like cm punk get a clean victory for once instead of either having to cheat or get squashed it gets old. It makes your heels look weak. A heel can run from a face and get cheap shots in on raw or smackdown but when the ppv rolls around I want a good match I want to see the heel bring it and for someone to get a clean victory. Personally I dont think thats to much to ask.

 

[DCubedxDDD]

I think it's tough to say that they need to change the face/heel factor because thats the way its been and def going to be the way its going to be with Cena as the de facto Champion even when he doesnt have the strap. Thats what I think the problem is.....the only face being put over is Cena. I think that is the issue here. There are the transitional Champions between Cena's reigns since 05....which all except RVD have been heels. Its the heels job to put over the face....thats what made the attitude era so good.....Austin had his nemesis'.....Rock had his. My whole thing is I wish there were more faces getting title reigns and not just the heels who drop the belt to Cena at the next PPV after winning it. I think Vince is holding the Cena heel turn as his ace in the hole just in case TNA becomes viable and starts stealing his audience.

 

[Honkey_Kong]

I think the whole heel/face thing has been done to death. I mean come on, who here really cheers for a wrestler because he's a face or boos a wrestler because he's a heel? Even as a kid, I found myself cheering for the likes of Ted Dibiase, Rick Martel, Mr. Perfect, The Undertaker, Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Paul Orndorf, Randy Savage (when he was both heel and face). I was booing the wrestlers I hated too like Ronnie Garvin, Eddie Gilbert, Hulk Hogan, Tito Santana, Lex Luger, Robert Gibson/Ricky Morton, Etc etc.

My point is this we all have our favourite wrestlers that we pull for whether or not they're the good guys. Even kids tend to have their favourites and they will back them whether or not they're the good guys. So why even have that? I mean Vince himself said in the attitude era that everyone is a shade of gray. Why not keep that true today?

The old superhero underdog overcoming the heel has been done to death and it's boring. What we want is two evenly matched wrestlers in a match where either one could be the other cleanly. They can develop the angle for interest in it, but they shouldn't feel too upset when the bad guy wins.

As Mr. Kennedy says "nice guys finish last. Thank God I'm an asshole."

 

[DCubedxDDD]

I dont consider wrestlers heel or face.....they have tendencies......but I cant believe it would be compelling television with a roster full of tweeners. I mean cmon even during the attitude era there were definate heels and faces. It makes for compelling television. What makes a heel great, is to be hated by the "target" audience....unfortuately we are TV-14/TV-MA Fans stuck in TV-PG Bodies!!!!

 

[El Rev sXe]

as someone said I want to see sometimes heels like CM Punk like Orton and Edge (when they were heels) get a clean victory. I dont remember when but it was in a ppv it was CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio both faces and CM won! great match. now in extreme rules Rey face and CM heel CM wins again! but with an interference that look weak for CM ands yes is to get the heel heat and blablablabla but we could have seen an awesome match but just cause one is the heel he HAS TO CHEAT. by the way dont you think guys that Cena with the way he won at ER that shouldve made him heel or at leat get heel heat??

 

[Thesage1989]

I think it's tough to say that they need to change the face/heel factor because thats the way its been and def going to be the way its going to be with Cena as the de facto Champion even when he doesnt have the strap. Thats what I think the problem is.....the only face being put over is Cena. I think that is the issue here. There are the transitional Champions between Cena's reigns since 05....which all except RVD have been heels. Its the heels job to put over the face....thats what made the attitude era so good.....Austin had his nemesis'.....Rock had his. My whole thing is I wish there were more faces getting title reigns and not just the heels who drop the belt to Cena at the next PPV after winning it. I think Vince is holding the Cena heel turn as his ace in the hole just in case TNA becomes viable and starts stealing his audience.

i thought that nobody had my thinking that the cena heel turn is for when times get tough and we all know cena can bee a great heel and he will generate lots of heat.

 

[TheJujuMan]

OK. Very first time posting to this forum, so be easy with me. That being said...
Classic purpose of the heel is that the heel's job is to get the face over. Good usually triumphs over evil, even when it looks impossible to do so.

I noticed in all the posts that NO ONE mentioned HHH?? He is a master manipulator. When he was a dead-on heel he was always dominant. He never looked weak, even in the rare PPV loss. And he rarely put the face over. I used to get frustrated watching his matches because he wouldn't let someone go over him. He is only doing it now, because he is older and starting to show the effects of a career of wrestling.

One of the heels that was good at making the face look good was Savage. Jericho is also extremely good at the heel role and putting someone over. Neither of them were tweeners.

Tweeners should be limited. Stone Cold was a good example of the rare tweener role working. But that is hard to come by. Orton started making his face turn as a tweener, but you can start to see he is shifting into a full fledged face (last week admitting he did "terrible things to HHH and his family...")-don't think a true tweener would care one way or the other about what happened in the past.

All that I have said is the truth... the DAMN truth!

 

[Thesage1989]

For me i could care less i am a big fan of heels i think they are great deny the fans want they want by walking away, cheating to get the title, dirty moves, great promos oh man i just cant get enough right i am just patiently waiting to get my heel cena back Vince you bastard you took him from me any ways i say leave as is its not bothering anyone

 

[peep4life]

i have to agree if the HEELS are supposed be the big bad dominant ones then they should go over at some PPV's but they do it that way sometimes when it was RANDY ORTON vs HHH vs JOHN CENA at i think WM25 they had ORTON win which came as a HUGE surprise because a heel won and plus it was WM.

 

[The Roid Rage]

The way I remember it in the old days of the Hogan Era where the lines were very clearly drawn between face and heel, the heels were generally the ones you expected to win because they were such bad asses. You knew the heel was a bad guy and that he was mean and that being said that he would do worse things to the good guy than the good guy would do to him because he was evil. That's when you had a Hogan who triumphed over the indomitable forces of evil, and why it was such a big deal for him to win, because the heels were really good heals.

Now as in the past everyone is supposed to be a bad ass with an ass kicking chip on their shoulder, so there's no real threat to either guy, just what each says they'll do to each other which you ponder the outcome of. I think the problem in the past has been that the lines weren't drawn so clear, and everyone was billed as a major bad ass. Now we are getting back to having monster heels whether they are more the aggressive or antagonistic type and faces that contrast them a bit better, moving away from the "everyone is basically a heel" area and things are getting better. Take a good look, the heels are heating up, and the faces are becoming the underdogs more and more opposed to each man just being some kind of wrecking machine.


I think part of the problem is that the characters are gone, and would no longer be accepted as they were. You used to have a variety because everyone had a character, something to distinguish them from everyone else besides the tribal pattern on their trunks. A lot of the wrestlers today are seeming more and more generic because there are no real distinguishing factors, no character.

As I mentioned earlier their always just supposed to be well built tough guys with an ass kicking chip on their shoulder, unless they are really trying to be face. Even then a lot of times the faces are just that for no reason, it has nothing to do with their character, it's just what creative thought would be good for them. Give me some personality, give me some character, I want a gimmick give me something feasible not some jerk-fuck like Eric Escobar who's basically a Razor Ramon rip off. These are my thoughts and observations. You may or may not agree with them, but I think they're pretty fucking accurate.

 

[DL23]

I don't believe a change in concept is needed, if creative had everyone like Orton, Austin, Edge, HHH that use heel tactics yet get cheered, the characters would become stale, and the fans would get lost on who to cheer for, so in essence it would pretty confusing to general fan.

Randy Orton and Edge are just about the two guys who can really pull off being a heel but STILL get cheered for it, let them play the role, they can do it and keep it fresh not many wrestlers can do that, Edge and Orton are this generations Rock/Austin and personally speaking I'd like to see these two trade matches between now and Mania 27, Orton/Edge HAS to happen at Wrestlemania if it doesn't, it will be one of the matches fans talk about what could of happened on the big stage, like Austin/HHH.

 

[STL]

Here's what I think the WWE should do. They should keep the Classic Faces and Classic Heels but, it woudn't hurt to have people in between that like Orton is right now.

 

[Foodapoodas]

I definately agree there needs to be a change. As people have mentioned, 'heels are used to get a face over,' but it shouldn't always be that way. Too many heels rely on cheating, and it's getting old fast. They really do need a dominant heel, someone who can beat legit main event faces cleanly, and get people to hate them.
Perfect candidate? Jack Swagger. he already went over Orton, and WWe should really continue to let his actual wrestling ability shine, and take him through. People hate him because of his promos and other reasons, even if he is cleanly winning matches. That it my eyes, is a refreshing change. There are other ways to antagonise the audience without cheating.

Oh and for the record, out of the six singles matches, only one heel one. It was not a clean victory. Says it all.