Do wrestler's need to be frustrated?

[anthonymclaughlin]

I know it's a pretty strange title but bear with me, it just seems to me that all the really great wrestler's have been dropped on their ass at least once before they truly break through. Now I'm sure some of you will say thats down to them trying to find their character, or that of course stupid evil vince will misuse talent, but I think that the anger from being let down or having to stop due to injury is what catpult's a wrestler to the next level. Prime example is SCSA, but also the Rock, Edge, CM punk, even HBK and Bret Hart had to play second fiddle to the hulkster for years.

Some more recent examples include Mark Henry, he failed to make the big time again and again because of injury yadda yadda yadda, but when he did make the big time all it did was provide the fuel to make him a believable monster after 15 years of jobbing to the stars. I know some will disagree with me but i think Zack Ryder is another, he is on TV less and less but every time I see him he is wrestling his heart out, maybe cause he knows this could be his last chance. I also think Dolph has been missing that certain fire in his belly, that determination to be the number one , but last night on Smackdown....... god damn, i won't spoil anything, but damn, I'm a massive Sheamus fan, never been that hot on Dolph but he had me 100% behind him, because his anger came from a real place for once. I also think this latest wellness violation could slap Randy Orton outta this funk, make him a little bit desperate and could lead to him rocking the rest of 2012, or he could give up and sulk, either way is could.

What do you think, is it the frustration, the anger that makes good superstars, or is it just coincidence?

 

[Aeon Mathix]

It's all about the drive and determination to be the best. That is what seperates guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, John Cena, Shawn Michaels, etc. from everyone else. They will not settle for second place and thats what made them. With today's superstars, I get the impression that more than 70 percent of them just do not give a shit and do nothing to elevate their game. Think about it, more than half of them are in the exact same positions they were 1 year ago and some even 2 years ago. We all see the potential in guys like Ziggler and Rhodes, but they haven't progressed in the longest time. Even go back to when Shelton Benjamin, Carlito and those other mid card guys we thought had it in them and were going to be huge. They never did anything to get to that second level. They just went out there and did the bare minimum and thats what cost them.

In short, superstars need to start breaking the 4th wall and just penetrating the fuck out of that glass ceiling. They all seem like they are on cruise control right now and it's frusterating because it's like you see the potential, but wheres their mindset? They need to kick it into high gear soon and get over. John Cena is not going to be around forever, then what are they going to do?

 

[JaceEvans]

I agree 100%, I was on the WWE's website and they had an old video of when Cena debuted. It's been a while since I saw it so I watched it and you can see on Cena's face that he was going to be big. He captured "ruthless aggression" perfectly, he wrestled a match with Angle and Kurt won via a roll up and as they say the rest is history. I don't know if frustrated is exactly the word for it I feel motivated fits better. But whatever you call it, it's definitely lacking tho after watching Smackdown I sort of see it in Rhodes.

I also liked the evolution of Ziggler's and Vickies relationship, but I'm sad to say that Dolph isn't doing anything new. I feel like he feels "he's so good at wrestling and that if enough people will see it he will get over" but that's just not the case. People have seen his act, we have all seen his act and while no one can dispute his ability in the ring, It's outside the ring that's most important. I'm almost completely convinced he needs to be brought into the IC/US title picture as I don't find him entertaining enough to be In the ME scene.

 

[remyx]

I don't think thats true for Dolph. For the longest time he was just going out there and putting on matches and all his fanboys were saying "He needs to be given the world championship" and blah blah blah... but he didn't. I don't think he quite needs it now, but aside from the wrestling aspect of it, which i think he just gets better and better at, he's started to develop more personality and add that into his matches as well.. He seems like he's got more fire in his eyes now and personally I think its time for him to step up and reach for the ball.

Theres other people that I don't think are anywhere near there yet that the IWC ride the dicks of. Like Justin Gabriel and Tyson Kidd. They're good wrestlers for sure but they need time to develop more of a personality. Sure half of that is the WWEs fault because they get the very bare minimum to get on TV besides matches on NXT and superstars and when they do get the time to talk its all pre-scripted stuff that doesn't come from the heart or relate to them. They need to put more faith in their stars.

Ie. Zack Ryder on his show comes across as goofy.. but he's self aware of that and he still gets to vent his frustrations and at least seem smart enough about whats going wrong in his career... But on tv? They make him seem like a goofy shmuck who everyone walks over and to be truthful they make him look semi ******ed by not noticing that the other superstars he interacts with are more often than not making fun of him... not how to get your future stars over.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Prime example is SCSA, but also the Rock, Edge, CM punk, even HBK and Bret Hart had to play second fiddle to the hulkster for years.

Well, sure, it's part and parcel of making your way up in your chosen field. How many people start at the top? If you somehow manage to do that, where is the only place to go from there?

To illustrate, I have to write again about my guy Drew McIntyre. Here's an example of a performer who started at the top; at least in WWE. He was given that damn "Vince McMahon's Chosen One" moniker, and we never really knew whether Vince really had a special feeling about this guy or whether it was just part of the storyline. (Maybe it was both)

Either way, a lot of folks on this forum have proclaimed him a failure "even with a great gimmick like that." Personally, I think the persona was a curse.....and point to the theme of this thread as evidence of that.

Drew started at the top, which left him nowhere to go but down. Worse, I've read tales of him believing his own press clippings and acting badly in the locker room. Imagine how the top guys on Smackdown are going to take it if a rookie gets high and mighty with them. It probably happened but obviously isn't the type of information WWE is going to divulge.

Plus, there's the gimmick itself. How many performers could have succeeded if given billing like that right at the start of their WWE tenure? Cena?.....yes. Punk?....maybe. Anyone else?.....forget it.

Okay, so the whole Chosen One routine didn't work out. As I see it, it was doomed to fail from the start unless the wrestler was a magic man, which Drew wasn't. Since then, he's learned better how to work a match, how to sell for others, and probably how to better conduct himself in the locker room.

Will it help? Remains to be seen......two weeks ago, Drew had a terrific match on Superstars with Christian. It was nice because that show allows wrestlers to work matches instead of hitting a few high-risk maneuvers and going home. Drew and Christian worked a full 13 minutes and Drew showed he can really bring it, especially with some of the difficult timing moves he and Christian executed perfectly. Drew is apparently ready, yet WWE doesn't seem interested in him anymore; it looked as if they were building him a program on Smackdown, but it all changed somewhere along the line. Now, he's jobbing to Zack Ryder and Santino, heaven help us.

I think Drew is proof positive that it's better for a performer to experience the early "frustration" mentioned by the OP. It gives them something to shoot for.....obstacles to overcome......and leads to a more solid performer. Plus, it seems more the natural order of things to start low and finish high, even with frustrations and setbacks along the way.

 

[JaceEvans]

Well, sure, it's part and parcel of making your way up in your chosen field. How many people start at the top? If you somehow manage to do that, where is the only place to go from there?

To illustrate, I have to write again about my guy Drew McIntyre. Here's an example of a performer who started at the top; at least in WWE. He was given that damn "Vince McMahon's Chosen One" moniker, and we never really knew whether Vince really had a special feeling about this guy or whether it was just part of the storyline. (Maybe it was both)

Either way, a lot of folks on this forum have proclaimed him a failure "even with a great gimmick like that." Personally, I think the persona was a curse.....and point to the theme of this thread as evidence of that.

Drew started at the top, which left him nowhere to go but down. Worse, I've read tales of him believing his own press clippings and acting badly in the locker room. Imagine how the top guys on Smackdown are going to take it if a rookie gets high and mighty with them. It probably happened but obviously isn't the type of information WWE is going to divulge.

Plus, there's the gimmick itself. How many performers could have succeeded if given billing like that right at the start of their WWE tenure? Cena?.....yes. Punk?....maybe. Anyone else?.....forget it.

Okay, so the whole Chosen One routine didn't work out. As I see it, it was doomed to fail from the start unless the wrestler was a magic man, which Drew wasn't. Since then, he's learned better how to work a match, how to sell for others, and probably how to better conduct himself in the locker room.

Will it help? Remains to be seen......two weeks ago, Drew had a terrific match on Superstars with Christian. It was nice because that show allows wrestlers to work matches instead of hitting a few high-risk maneuvers and going home. Drew and Christian worked a full 13 minutes and Drew showed he can really bring it, especially with some of the difficult timing moves he and Christian executed perfectly. Drew is apparently ready, yet WWE doesn't seem interested in him anymore; it looked as if they were building him a program on Smackdown, but it all changed somewhere along the line. Now, he's jobbing to Zack Ryder and Santino, heaven help us.

I think Drew is proof positive that it's better for a performer to experience the early "frustration" mentioned by the OP. It gives them something to shoot for.....obstacles to overcome......and leads to a more solid performer. Plus, it seems more the natural order of things to start low and finish high, even with frustrations and setbacks along the way.

God I love it when you talk about Drew : )

yea I really couldn't say it any better myself. I feel like he has gotten frustrated and is working harder and hopefully being a lil more humble in the back but I mean if I was Drew it would be hard to be humble. He's definitlly put on muscle mass tho I really didn't think he needed it but hopefully that proves to the higher ups that he is dedicated to his craft.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Sometimes it takes failures and frustration to cause someone (not just wrestlers) to refocus and apply themself in a different way to drive success. This goes with anyone doing anything. Complacency generally doesn't lead to growth or satisfaction in one's career. I don't think you "need" to fail or get frustrated to reach a new level but everyone seems to feel like they have failed at some point in their lives. Just depends on how you handle it.

I think Yoda taught me this.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It's interesting cos Maxine just quite citing "frustration"... When arguably anyone in the WWE or NXT is in a privileged position, some can handle frustration and others can't. The best ones who turn it to their advantage have been those who refuse to bow to it but rather turn it on itself. "Die Rocky, Die" is a prime example. Rocky Maivia was doing everything he was being told, but it wasn't working... he got frustrated and started to show it and it naturally led to a far more interesting character.

When Brian Pillman had had enough in WCW, he started to behave badly for real, walking out of a PPV match and causing Heenan to swear... he got his wish (if only he hadn't crashed his damn jeep).

Christian is perhaps the best recent example, he turned his frustration on itself by heading to TNA, headlining there and then putting himself in a position where Vince HAD to give him a run. Those months leading up to it must have been hell for the guy, but it worked out in the long run. For guys like McIntyre, the fact they are still there says something... in TNA he'd be feuding with Roode now... but he wants to make it in the WWE and all it's gonna take is one little thing to get him back into the mix.

 

[TheGamea]

I agree with you I mean wrestling has to be the WORST profession ever because if you are "in" with the guys in the back your NOO WHERE, I mean lets even look at long island ice Z (cant believe i said that) but you can not tell me hes not one of the biggest love stars in the fans eyes but yet look where he is, I thought he was dropped until SD

 

[Remix]

Well, sure, it's part and parcel of making your way up in your chosen field. How many people start at the top? If you somehow manage to do that, where is the only place to go from there?

To illustrate, I have to write again about my guy Drew McIntyre. Here's an example of a performer who started at the top; at least in WWE. He was given that damn "Vince McMahon's Chosen One" moniker, and we never really knew whether Vince really had a special feeling about this guy or whether it was just part of the storyline. (Maybe it was both)

Either way, a lot of folks on this forum have proclaimed him a failure "even with a great gimmick like that." Personally, I think the persona was a curse.....and point to the theme of this thread as evidence of that.

Drew started at the top, which left him nowhere to go but down.

No, he started in the middle with a great gimmick and a big push. If he'd been good he'd have risen to the top. Alberto Del Rio started at the top. Drew did not.

Worse, I've read tales of him believing his own press clippings and acting badly in the locker room. Imagine how the top guys on Smackdown are going to take it if a rookie gets high and mighty with them. It probably happened but obviously isn't the type of information WWE is going to divulge.

If true, that makes him a failure who is also a dumbass.

Plus, there's the gimmick itself. How many performers could have succeeded if given billing like that right at the start of their WWE tenure? Cena?.....yes. Punk?....maybe. Anyone else?.....forget it.

One with tallent and charisma, perhaps. I'd put money on Barrett thriving in the role if he'd been given it, for example.

Okay, so the whole Chosen One routine didn't work out. As I see it, it was doomed to fail from the start unless the wrestler was a magic man, which Drew wasn't. Since then, he's learned better how to work a match, how to sell for others, and probably how to better conduct himself in the locker room.

All things someone who's been in the business since he was 16 should know.

Will it help? Remains to be seen......two weeks ago, Drew had a terrific match on Superstars with Christian.

A lofty feat up there with having good matches with Tyson Kidd, Hunico or Rey Mysterio.

Drew's had good matches predating his callup. Go check out him vs DH Smith.

It was nice because that show allows wrestlers to work matches instead of hitting a few high-risk maneuvers and going home. Drew and Christian worked a full 13 minutes and Drew showed he can really bring it, especially with some of the difficult timing moves he and Christian executed perfectly. Drew is apparently ready, yet WWE doesn't seem interested in him anymore; it looked as if they were building him a program on Smackdown, but it all changed somewhere along the line. Now, he's jobbing to Zack Ryder and Santino, heaven help us.

The unover failure is jobbing to over people? Well I never.

 

[JaceEvans]

Wow can't believe I didn't see this guy's potshots at Drew...Ahem

If true, that makes him a failure who is also a dumbass.

First off I don't think his character as the chosen one was a complete failure, I think he just wasn't getting over as much as the WWE would of liked so they pulled the plug on it. Second we really don't know what happened in the back, none of us do unless you were really there, which I doubt you were. If he did make such mistakes all that it proves is he was human and he made a mistake not a "dumbass" as you say.

One with tallent and charisma, perhaps. I'd put money on Barrett thriving in the role if he'd been given it, for example.

This is the quote I have the most problems with. It seems if you don't like Mcintyre you love Barret. I for one like both of them Drew more then Wade of course. First off lets compare both of there pushes and decide who got the bigger one shall we...Drew got a big program on Smackdown with the teddy long angle, Wade on the other hand got the hottest summer angle as the leader of Nexus and got to work several matches with the number one guy in the company and on top of that Cena had to become Wade's slave for a few weeks. He still doesn't get the heat I feel someone in that angle should of got and would argue Wade got the better angle of the two. Wade also got a rebound program on Smackdown with the Corre which lets be honest was a tremendous flop the only thing this guy has done interesting since Nexus is his program with Randy Orton and I suspect it's because of Orton and not Wade.

The rest of your stuff I agree with for the most part