Do "wins" mean anything any more?

[Showtime]

This is the WWE of today, where one can reel off loss after loss after loss and still become the companies top champion somehow. In a profession (unsure whether to dub it sport or entertainment anymore), where they do actually keep track of wins and losses, why is it that someone can be buried with embarrassing loses yet still rise up and become champion. I'll answer, because the wins and losses literally do mean nothing now. It's all about the push, the storyline, the reaction and what goes on outside of your own control.

CM Punk went through two embarrassing losing streaks, one after he dropped the ECW title to Chavo and repeatedly jobbed to him and then after he won MITB he continued to job for a while. Of course, he won the MITB solely on Jeff's own mistake and then became WHC, but even then he continued to job during and after his reign was over. Carlito suffered embarrassing losses after it appeared he was leaving the company, even jobbing to Hornswoggle. Still, he bounced back, went through another string of losses and became tag champion with his brother. Jeff became HHH's bitch for most of this summer and lost many other matches before reaching his dream of winning WWE championship. MVP is in the midst of a long jobber streak, even Santino lost many of his matches before winning the IC title and no after dropping it, continues to job away. Henry and JBL have so many loses between them they've perfected the art of losing, yet Henry was champion and JBL continues to get title shots. Shelton couldn't buy a win in 2007, now he's US champion..... you get my picture.

So how do you build credible champions if they all go through long periods of losing streaks? I don't know. I don't remember Austin being this way, or the Rock, HHH, Angle, Lesner, Orton, Cena, Edge. I don't remember any of these guys going through long stretches well after they debuted where they jobbed to huge amounts of wrestlers, especially to ones lower or equal to them. It's one thing for them to job to main eventers, but most of these guys mentioned in the paragraph above have jobbed to everybody, from well established guys to wrestlers who are almost a jobber themselves. The fact is I don't think you can build really credible champions that way. No one to me right now who hasn't or isn't already champion looks ready to make the leap to main event.

The problem might be the amount of guys who are in the main event already. There is just no elbow room for anyone else to fit in there, at least not without having to job to three quarters to all of them before getting the nod. The main event right now reads: Cena, Mysterio, Micheals, Punk, Orton, JBL, Kane, Jericho, Jeff Hardy, HHH, Undertaker, Edge, Big Show, Batista, Matt Hardy, Christian (when he debuts), that makes 16 wrestlers in the mainevent, 11 of whom are 34 or older, and 5 who are in their 40's or turning 40 this year The only one under 30 is Orton. I think it's time the 5 who are 40 or more to begin to either retire, or to finally start putting over the younger talents and giving them someone to finally beat. I think it's silly for Kane to be trying to reinforce Mysterio's claim to the main event by jobbing out to him, or for Big Show to wrestle and loss to the Undertkaer for the millionth time and not get anything out of the feud. These guys should be pushing the future talents, the Benjamin's, MVP's, the Kennedy's, the Punk's, the Miz and Morrison's, etc. and help make winning become more meaningful.

So what do you all think, do wins mean anything? and is it time maybe that they started meaning something. We all talk about when the future will come, maybe when we start letting them get more W's then L's, maybe they will come. Win's currently mean little, It's all about reaction and performance and that's why were seeing so many take backs and second guessing with a lot of the talent. Nobody knew Austin would be huge, it just kind of happened. Let's stopping worrying, let the new guys have their chances and maybe, just maybe, that Austin kinda star just might happen again.

 

[HBK-aholic]

In the overall scheme of things, yes. It helps build characters, it gives people titles and title shots, and it allows them to keep those titles. A win for a face gains them even more popularity, a win for a heel gains them more heat.

However, the outcome of a match does not determine how good a wrestler was in it. The winner of a match isn't always the one who performed the best. I'll use HBK as an example. He's highly recognised as the guy who brings his "A-game" to every Wrestlemania match he's in. But has he won them all? No way, in fact, I think he may have lost more than he's won.

 

[Tastycles]

I think it is definitely the nature of winning matches that counts in the long term, as opposed to the win/loss record. Losses are accrued by almost everyone, so they don't really matter and the nature of wins that give us the impression of how strong or weak a wrestler is.

For example... Cena lost 5 matches this year on ppvs, so did CM Punk. Cena lost the triple threat match at mania, the fatal 4 way at Backlash, against JBL at GAB, HHH at NoC and Batista at Summerslam. Punk lost the rumble, against Chavo at NWO, against Miz and Morrison w/ Kane at Judgement Day, the Ex ECW champion rigmarole at One Night Stand and when he was on Team Batista at Survivor Series. Only one of Punk's defeats were to a single opponent, so from that perspective, if anything Punk looks stronger.

Cena won 6 -the rumble, beat Orton by DQ, JBL twice and Jericho twice. Punk won 3 - the MITB, against JBL and Rey Mysterio and fought to one double DQ against Batista. So their records aren't too different especially when you consider that the MITB is a mess where someone lucks out and so is the rumble, but looking at the details reveals a clearer picture.

In Cena's DQ win over Orton, he was dominant, and he looked like he would win if Orton hadn't have hit the referee. In Punk's DQ match with Batista, he was being destroyed. In his win over JBL, he looked like he fluked the win, wheras Cena was always dominant in both matches with JBL and Jericho, and that is why Cena looks like a strong competitor and CM Punk did not before December.

So it is not the wins, or the losses for that matter that count, but the way you win.

 

[CCS]

I think to casual fans wins mean everything. I know a few people who think John Cena's a better wrestler than Kurt Angle just because Cena beat him. But to me wins dont really mean alot. The only time o dont think someone should lose is if they're a champion. But if a wrestler's not a champion it doesnt bother me if they lose a match every now and then. Wrestlers who are willing to lose usually are wrestlers who succeed. But as far as winning goes, it obviously makes you look better if you're winning so if obviously means something. Most people wont like a wrestler who loses all the time. It's much more fun to root for a winning wrester.

 

[klunderbunker]

Wins will always mean something, but at the end of the day, there are ways around them. What matters is how a wrestler gets over with the fans. In OVW there is a wrestler named Johnny Punch that literally didn't win a match for over a year and a half. The key to it was he was a total face the whole time. By the end of it, he was more over than almost anyone on the card. He stayed on even though he was the king of the jobbers because the fans reacted to him. Wrestling is a sport in which you can be forgiven at teh drop of a hat. Even if you lose 5-10 matches in a row, all it takes is one big win to have that forgotten. Case in point, CM Punk. He was on a huge losing streak, then he used the MITB, and then all we were talkign about was the huge twist. No one remembered the losing streak. Overall yes they do, but not as much as they could.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

I don't really think so. I mean nowadays there are so many more ways to work around a loss to make yourself look stronger it doesnt matter. Wins and Losses are only statistics and in the world of professional wrestling they dont matter. Because as long as someone is making money then that person will be able to look good. No matter how the outcome of the match.

 

[DC24]

No they don't matter wrestling is a fixed product; the wrestlers already know whats going to happen before they go out there they have to make it look good for the crowd. With the Internet we already know whats going to happen most of time I don't hold in stock in wins and losses unless to a certain ie weak ass Triple H.