Do We Forgive Too Soon?

[The People's Peep]

Over the last few years, some active big name athletes have found themselves in trouble with either the law or moral problems. The three most infamous cases recently have been Michael Vick, Ben Roethlisberger, and Tiger Woods.

As a sports fan, you most likely watch ESPN and hear them constantly talk about the athlete's problems. However, once they step onto the field, it seems that all their problems go away. When ESPN talks about Roethlisberger or Vick, its all about their on-field play. If it was any regular person, doing the actions of these guys, it would haunt them for the rest of their lives. But because they play sports, their problems seem to be forgotten pretty quick.

Now I believe in second chances, so I guess I'm similar to ESPN and try to overlook the problems. But what do you think? Do sports fans forgive athletes too quickly because they are athletes or is there more to it?

 

[Theo Mays]

We seem to forgive these athletes when they are doing well. Vick is succeeding and some people have forgiven, while others still can't get over what he did. Big Ben and Tiger fall into the same boat. Once that star athlete starts doing well and shows us the spark that got us interested in them in the first place we are quick to forget their off the field issues. However when a guy seems to be struggling the first point people make is the guy can't stay out of trouble. Usually that is the case, but I'm sure it isn't the only reason they are struggling. I'm all for second chances and forgiveness, but you shouldn't have to judge a player by what they do off the field, but what they do on it. With Vick for example, I respect the hell out of Vick the player and it looks like he has turned his life around, but forgiving him for his crimes isn't going to come right away. Same goes for a guy like Donte Stallworth and the others mentioned.

 

[People's Champ]

One thing that's different is we put these athletes on a different level than us. We look at them in a much different way than we do everyday people. We praise them too much when they succeed and critize them to death when they don't and do something wrong. That's not to say its right or wrong, but that's how it is. So when we hear of an athlete doing something terrible, we kill them for it. Big Ben was not convicted or even charged with anything yet we went on about how stupid he was, he should be traded and on and on. This is just how it goes.

Theo is right that success after wrongdoing is a huge factor in how these guys are looked at after and whether they are forgiven. And some don't forgive what they did, but its all about second chances. Yea, a lot of rambling here but I think you get it.

Oh, and one other thing that's a big factor. Owning it. Owning up and confessing what you did is huge in receiving America's forgiveness. Take Vick for instance. He lied all the way until he couldn't lie anymore. He was killed for it. Stallworth, on the other hand, immediately owned up to his mistake, to responsiblity and the backlash wasn't as severe. Taking responsiblity for one's actions is key.

 

[Big Sexy]

I think it depends on the situation. Michael Vick for example spent a lot of time in jail, had to declare bankruptcy, and was basically labeled as a horrible human being. He did his time and has become a better person both on and off the field because of it. People talk highly now of Vick not just because what he is doing on the field but also what he is doing off it as well.

I agree though that some guys do get forgiven way too soon. Leonard Little was a very good defensive end, however, early on in his career he drove drunk and killed a women. Let that sink in. He broke the law and killed someone. He served no jail time and was suspended for just 8 games that season. He killed someone and a year later he was on the field celebrating a Super Bowl win like nothing had happened. The guy ended up becoming an all pro and his past was never really brought up. Fans should have been disgusted with this guy and instead he was just a normal member of the team getting cheered like everyone else, and that is after very little punishment.

It all goes on a case by case basis.

 

[Chardee Macdennis]

In general, Yes, we forgive much too easily. I agree that it is directly linked to success on the field. If these guys weren't part of an elite group that stand out amongst the best in the world, then they probably wouldn't recieve our forgiveness as easily. I honestly wish it would change. I think there are certain instances where these players should have to suffer consequences much, much longer. Big Sexy's example of Leonard Little is a PERFECT one.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I think it depends on the situation. Michael Vick for example spent a lot of time in jail, had to declare bankruptcy, and was basically labeled as a horrible human being. He did his time and has become a better person both on and off the field because of it. People talk highly now of Vick not just because what he is doing on the field but also what he is doing off it as well.

I was about to say the same thing. Vick doesn't need to be forgiven: he pleaded guilty and did the time for the crime he committed. If you still have a problem with someone who has already been served justice, then you, not that person, is the one with the problem.

To add onto this, the only time I'll ever refuse to forgive an athlete is if they've done something wrong and weren't properly punished for it.

 

[The People's Peep]

I think People's Champ brought up a great point. Owning up to what you did is huge.

Specifically looking at Vick as an example, he owned up to what he did, he payed the consequences and learned from it. Tiger ultimately did the same thing and now everyone is more focused with him trying to return to his legendary form. I think the best example of this is the PED problem in baseball. Roger Clemens did his crime, is still involved in trying to dispute it, and it seems like this will haunt him forever. His buddy Andy Pettitte on the other hand, owned up to what he did and everyone has forgot about his use.

Performance is also a great point. Its basically masking your problem or wrong-doing by getting them to focus on and pay attention to your on field play. You guys are bringing up some great points.

 

[Jonnie Walker]

I will never forgive Michael Vick, not only did he commit extremely heinous acts, but I live near Philly, and all that people say is how amazing Vick is and how much better he is in Philly than in Atlanta, and when ever people see me with my Falcons stuff on, Eagles fans will say "Oh, bet you miss Vick, huh?" to which I will respond, "Hell no, he's a scumbag and never played the way Ryan did, all he did was run." I hate how everyone says "Oh, well he made a mistake." No, he didn't. Donte Stallworth made a mistake. Leonard Little made a mistake. Vick killed and tortured numerous dogs over a number of years. That isn't a mistake, that's pretty much saying Jeffrey Dahmer made a mistake. Vick may not have killed people or is as evil as Dahmer, but you can't dismiss what he did as a mistake.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't know if he actually did it, as there was never any proof of what he did, so I can't hate him, but I still don't like Roethlisberger.

And with Tiger, what he did is messed up, but he didn't possibly rape someone or murder multiple dogs.

Do I think we're too forgiving? Some people definitely are, and there are some people (like myself) who either aren't or are just indifferent.

 

[LSN80]

I think you have to examine it on a case by case basis. Often times, we're forced to forgive players we wouldn't otherwise look at on the street because they are having such success. We play therm on our fantasy teams, sometimes winning money due to their success.

But what IF the player came back, and didn't play well upon his return? Society tends to be alot less forgiving. When Ben Roethlisberger returned after his motorcycle accident in 2006 after winning his first Super Bowl, he played terribly. Columnists talked about his stupidity. Sports Talk Hosts blamed his lackluster play directly on his motorcycle accident. I guarantee if he had returned after his four game suspension, and NOT played well, the people of Piuttsburgh would be saying his head wasn't on straight. It's a double standard.

Myself, the only time I don't forgive a player is if they havent been properly punished for their "crime." Vick served time in prison, and has come out a better person and more unselfish player, apparently. Roethlisberger served his 4 game suspension and has been a model citizen, alledgedly. I have no problem with either, because they were punished, and have come out on the other side better people. If they own their behavior, really own it, it makes them much easier to forgive.

 

[Big Sexy]

I will never forgive Michael Vick, not only did he commit extremely heinous acts, but I live near Philly, and all that people say is how amazing Vick is and how much better he is in Philly than in Atlanta, and when ever people see me with my Falcons stuff on, Eagles fans will say "Oh, bet you miss Vick, huh?" to which I will respond, "Hell no, he's a scumbag and never played the way Ryan did, all he did was run." I hate how everyone says "Oh, well he made a mistake." No, he didn't. Donte Stallworth made a mistake. Leonard Little made a mistake. Vick killed and tortured numerous dogs over a number of years. That isn't a mistake, that's pretty much saying Jeffrey Dahmer made a mistake. Vick may not have killed people or is as evil as Dahmer, but you can't dismiss what he did as a mistake.

This is an absolutely laughable statement from you. Are you seriously going to fucking tell me that Vick is a horrible person and Leonard Little just "made a mistake?" First of all, it wasn't the first nor the last time Little was caught driving drunk so get that mistake bullshit out of here. Secondly, Little killed a human being. I'm sorry to all the dog lovers out there but if you think murdering some dogs is worse them murdering a human then you are a pretty fucked up person.

You also obviously don't know the whole story. Dog fighting isn't something that Vick just randomly stumbled upon. He grew up in an area where dog fighting was seen as normal. It was like a sport to people. When you have something around you your entire life that is seen as normal, it's hard to not do it. I'm not excusing Vick's actions because he was an adult and he knew that he was doing something wrong, but it was still part of the culture he came from. He deserved the jail time time he got and the suspension from the NFL but all of that is over now. He paid his debt to society and should be forgiven. He has become a tremendous player once again on the field and he is now a much better person off it. He has done tons of charity work for and donated money to animal shelters.

Get off your fucking high horse .

 

[Jonnie Walker]

This is an absolutely laughable statement from you. Are you seriously going to fucking tell me that Vick is a horrible person and Leonard Little just "made a mistake?" First of all, it wasn't the first nor the last time Little was caught driving drunk so get that mistake bullshit out of here. Secondly, Little killed a human being. I'm sorry to all the dog lovers out there but if you think murdering some dogs is worse them murdering a human then you are a pretty fucked up person.

You also obviously don't know the whole story. Dog fighting isn't something that Vick just randomly stumbled upon. He grew up in an area where dog fighting was seen as normal. It was like a sport to people. When you have something around you your entire life that is seen as normal, it's hard to not do it. I'm not excusing Vick's actions because he was an adult and he knew that he was doing something wrong, but it was still part of the culture he came from. He deserved the jail time time he got and the suspension from the NFL but all of that is over now. He paid his debt to society and should be forgiven. He has become a tremendous player once again on the field and he is now a much better person off it. He has done tons of charity work for and donated money to animal shelters.

Get off your fucking high horse .

Leonard Little killed a human being accidentally. Michael Vick tortured and murdered multiple dogs on purpose. I don't care if it's part of his culture or not, what Vick did is inexcusable. I'm half Irish, and it's in my culture to drink heavily, but I don't. The things Vick did were awful, and as a dog owner, I will NEVER look at Vick as a good person or anything close to one. Even if I didn't own a dog I would fucking despise Vick. Yeah, he served his time, he paid his debt to society. He doesn't deserve to be forgiven. Would you forgive a murderer? Because that's what Vick is. I'm not on a high horse, but I can't stand Michael Vick and any person with half a brain would understand that.

 

[CH David]

Nice to see that Jonnie values a dog's life more than a person's life. Was what he did horrible? Fuck yeah it was, nobody is saying it wasn't. But he served his time, filed for bankruptcy, and has to pay back a lot of creditors and shit. He's basically broke right now. I'll forgive him because from what I see he has actually changed as a person. That to me is the biggest thing. A lot of guys can not show remorse and just live the same way once they do their time. He is trying to live life as a better person.

Donte Stallworth and Leonard Little. Vehicular manslaughter while drunk would fuck any normal person's life up big time. They do it and essentially get slaps on the wrist. I mean fuck, Little had a .19 blood alcohol level. That's over twice the legal limit. All he got was 4 years probation and 1,000 hours of community service. Stallworth was at a .12 after a night of drinking and just flashed his lights at a guy. That's real good! He got 30 days in jail, of which he served 24, 1,000 hours of community service, 2 years house arrest, 8 years probation, and a suspended license for life. Oh yes, those are tough times for killing a person while you are fucking DRUNK!!

As far as forgiving too soon, yeah we do. It is a person by person case though. What one person thinks couldn't mean shit to another. I forgive Vick right now, as he legitimately seems remorseful and is on the right path to fixing his future. To others that means nothing. I don't and won't forgive Leonard Little or Donte Stallworth. Simple as that.

 

[Big Sexy]

Leonard Little killed a human being accidentally. Michael Vick tortured and murdered multiple dogs on purpose. I don't care if it's part of his culture or not, what Vick did is inexcusable. I'm half Irish, and it's in my culture to drink heavily, but I don't. The things Vick did were awful, and as a dog owner, I will NEVER look at Vick as a good person or anything close to one. Even if I didn't own a dog I would fucking despise Vick. Yeah, he served his time, he paid his debt to society. He doesn't deserve to be forgiven. Would you forgive a murderer? Because that's what Vick is. I'm not on a high horse, but I can't stand Michael Vick and any person with half a brain would understand that.

No I would not forgive a murderer of humans, but that isn't what Vick is. People value the lives of dogs way too much just because they are the most domestic animal. I'm not saying what Vick did was ok because it wasn't, but at the end of the day he was doing this to animals. If it was another animal that wasn't loved by so many people like raccoons or something I guarantee that no one would have nearly the same issues with this. With where Vick grew up this was seen as a sport, no different from many people who see hunting deer as a sport. Vick's sport happened to be illegal but don't act like he is some psychopathic murderer because you are 100% wrong.