Do Heel World Champions Really Need A Posse?

[Mitch Henessey]

Famous or popular heel world champions have always had posses over the years. Triple H had Evolution and DX(2000) watching his back, Flair had the Horsemen, Hogan had the NWO, Shawn Michaels had Kevin Nash, Psycho Sid and DX, and The Rock had The Corporation watching his back. All of the famous heel champions in wrestling history have had a posse, but what I'm wondering is, were they all really necessary for the champion?

I pose this question because there is one man who seems to be doing just fine with out a posse, and is pretty damn popular at the same time, and that man is....John Cena. Cena might have been with Cryme Tyme for a little while, but nothing ever really came of it, and they never really did become his allies. Cena looked strong as a heel, and became even more popular as a face without a posse. Another man who doesn't really need a posse is Randy Orton. Orton is a pretty good heel, and he also has a strong character. It's not like Rhodes and Dibase have been elevated because of their association with Orton, and it's not like Legacy is a great or good heel stable anyway, so why does Orton really need them?

Did Kurt Angle or Sting really need the Main Event Mafia? Both of these guys are really well established names in pro wrestling, and by themselves, they did just fine. Angle has been on role since the MEM ended. He had an awesome feud with Desmond Wolfe, and his feud with AJ(especially the matches) have also been great, and as far as Sting goes, he still has plenty of mystique left.

Flair and Hogan were such strong characters. Flair was "The dirtiest player in the game" and Hogan was "immortal". Flair would be able to get a huge reaction on some of the promos he would cut by himself, and as far as cheating goes, he did that on his own also. Did he really need Arn Anderson or Tully Blanchard to get involved? Hogan's character was damn near invincible at times. When he turned heel, that of course was toned down a lot, but still, this was Hulk Hogan, THE legend in the wrestling business, did he really need Nash, Hall, and others?

What are your thoughts? Do you think posses are necessary for a heel world champion? Did Hogan really need the NWO? Did Flair really need the Horsemen?

 

[a0161613]

You have discussed great champions and great stables, both of which involved great storylines. Certainly HHH didnt need Evolution and Flair didnt need the Horsemen, both men were over as but that made them totally memorable. Flair was great before and after the Horsemen but the Horsemen were there to further the challengers as mostly they had to get through each of the Horsemen to even earn their shot.

Evolution made stars out of Orton and Batista, gave Flair a reason to be relevant and while HHH had a bad couple of years, he came out of it looking OK.

Orton was supoosed to help Legacy and I disagree that they will come out of it any worse. They have been working with the best in the company, so they will have to be coming out of it better. Dibiase will look like a star once Orton is done with him, providing the booking that Kofi Kingston should have had can play out to its full conclusion. Legacy will ultimately be a failure because of inconsistent booking support and no stars coming through after the first two; partly not their fault because clearly Sim and Manu had no chance.

Heel Stables if created with the right talent and the right should totally work as they are a proven way of getting people over.

 

[Dan E. Inferno]

Necessary? Probably not, but I'm still glad heel posses were around. The three best exapmles of heel stables are Evolution, NWO and the Horsemen in my opinion. I think Flair, Hogan and HHH were all completely over as heels at the time and were strong enough in regards to their stature and credibility to go it alone. It's possible they could still cheat and steal victories without the help of their posse. But I believe the fact that they were in successful stables helped them. This is because the stables added another dimension, another chapter to their careers.

NWO and the Horsemen are now legendary stables so, while they may not have been necessary to Hogan or Flair, their existance is an important part of wrestling history. Whether Evolution are legendary is debatable but the bonus with this group is that, in addition to the stable playing a big part in HHH's career since 2003, it created two of the biggest stars of the modern era in Batista and Orton. So once again this stable is an important part of wrestling history.

But no, in general heel posses aren't needed and that is being proved with Legacy. While Orton, Rhodes and Dibiase have had some pretty interesting confrontations, and Priceless has helped Orton retain his title a number of times, this stable isn't particularly helping either individual. Orton is pretty much the same guy he was before Legacy was formed, and neither Rhodes or Dibiase has gotten the kind of rub that Orton himself got when in Evolution. So some work, some don't. It's down to the stable and the individuals in it.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

I want to clarify something in my OP. I know I'm talking about HEEL champions, but I mentioned John Cena. I brought up Cena because whether he gets a mixed reaction or just gets %100 booed by a live crowd, it's always a passionate reaction from the crowd. I believe if Cena were to turn heel, and hold the WWE championship, he would still get that same passionate reaction without having a posse behind him.

Sorry if I didn't elaborate on that in my OP.

 

[Trill Co$by]

I think it all depends on the World Champion, honestly. I mean if it were someone like Sheamus holding the belt then no. He's a power house so what's the point?

However if it's someone like say Edge, then sure it's a great thing to have him with lackeys. I mean if you want to put logic into the match, how can Edge beat The Undertaker or Batista alone? How can he walk into TLC and not lose without help?

 

[Dagger Dias]

In my opinion the heel champions having bodyguards sometimes benefits the underlings more than the main heel. Top heels don't necessarily "need" any help to retain or win their titles because they already (kayfabe) are good enough to win the title on their own, or else they wouldn't be one of the top heels. It can benefit their underlings and posse though. Look at some more recent examples. Edge had his two clones, Hawkins & Ryder. WWE could have really pushed them if they had decided to, Ryder could still have changed characters at some point to become how he is today but higher up on the card, and Hawkins might still be on the roster. Edge didn't need them, but it would have been a great opportunity for both guys. Then you have Legacy. Orton sure doesn't "need" help from Rhodes or Dibiase, but look at how much it has helped Rhodes & Dibiase in getting their respective pushes. It can benefit the underlings from working with one of the top heels if the federation decides to push the whole group rather than just the champion himself because they get more exposure from being higher up on the card, meaning a chance for them to get a more important spot themselves someday. That's why I support the idea of heel champions having underlings, even oldschool examples like the nWo or the Horsemen.

 

[GSM]

It really depends on the way the heel is presented, if it is a heel that usually runs from the face and is rather sneaky and overall a coward then it would of course make sense to sorround him with some goons that can take the beating for him, like the Edgeheads or Legacy in the beginning.

But a heel Brock Lesnar didn´t need a stable because it would´ve make him look weak and he was being presented as a steamroller that could go through anyone.

Triple H in Evolution was presented as a strong worker but he still had the other members around him and it worked.

It really depends on the type of heel someone wants to put over.

 

[mrperfect19_6]

This is a good thread bcause i have thought about the same thing often. I dont think that a heel champ NEEDS a stable or posse bhind him, but it almost goes hand n hand. The big homie always has lil homies to do his dirty work for him lol. Plus it helps stacc the odds against whoever the face challenger may be. The face has to get past the heel champ and the stable to get to the gold lol.