Differentiating facts and opinions, & common misconceptions relating to John Cena.

[LSN80]

With the return of John Cena at worst three weeks away, the bashing of John Cena has been at a place I haven't seen in quite some time here at good ole' Wrestlezone. Gone are the "I don't like him but I respect him posts, replaced with posts of dislike, to all-out hatred. The opinions I've read, personally, have been nothing short of confounding. So much so that we had a poster, with great gusto, arguing that 36 year old John Cena, in the prime of his career, should go part-time. Then we have the usual "He should turn heel" comments that pop up every 2-3 weeks, and the simple misconception of some that their opinions carry more weight than fact. Although I've singled out a few posts, I'm not calling out anyone here specifically. It's simply differentiating between fact and opinion, disagreeing with any who share certain opinions. Through these posts, hopefully we can clear up some misconceptions as well.

All in good fun, of course.

I love how people can never give their own opinion of Cena they just talk about him selling Merch and being the too star.

You're joking, right? Cena, far and away, is the most talked about and polarizing wrestler on these forums, even moreso then Hogan in TNA. But when people DO make the incredibly valid points that:

A. Cena sells more merchandise than anyone else
B. Cena is the top star, and it's not even close

They're doing more then presenting an opinion you disagree on, they're providing facts. Let me save you the trouble: Facts are far more important in this world than an opinion. Here's an example.

There's a road near my house that's off my highway, and the speed limit is 35. I can't understand why, so I drive 50 on it, and get pulled over. I tell the officer my opinion is that the speed limit should be 50, not 35, and his response to me will be simple.

Cop:

Someone smarter than you or me decided on the limit. Here's a ticket for 200 dollars, have a nice day.

The point being: Opinions are nice, facts are better.

Anyways I don't like Cena. Think he's boring and would rather not see him.

Never would I have guessed this. However, it's your right and your opinionto think this way, but facts dictate that WWE would be worse off without him.

I'd be delighted if he retired or went away and did movies or whatever.

Another opinion, when facts have shown that WWE struggles on the whole and sales stagnate when Cena is out. Cena isn't a good enough actor to go the Rock route(Retire, sail off to Hollywood), and he's honest, at times brutally so, about it. He laughs at himself and says he's a bad actor, which he pretty much is.

What can't be argued(or shouldn't, at least ) is that Cena is the wrestler who's had good to great matches with every other top star in the business. He's also gone a long way towards the elevation of many Main Even wrestlers. Edge, Randy Orton, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and Dolph Ziggler have all stated that Cena's brought out the best in them. It's no coincidence that all of these men rose to main-event status (and none save Ziggler have left there)shortly after working with Cena.

I don't care about what the kids think or anyone else because I'm not a kid and I can form my own opinion.

That doesn't mean your opinion isn't wrong, nonetheless. You're free to both have and express it, however.

If he turned heel he probably still wouldn't be any better as he would seem insincere as fuck and not worth watching.

You're not a fan clamoring for a Cena heel turn, you seem to simply universally dislike him. I respect that FAR more the people who say that they're tired of Cena as a face, but would love him as a heel.

Folks, more often then not, your opinion won't change, be he heel or face. Some of you may love him as a heel, I'm not denying that, but many of you who are clammoring for a heel turn will likely find themselves discontent after a short time, because he'ld still be the same, top-of-the-card wrestler so many of you detest him for being. He gave us a glimpse of it as a heel rapper, but that's not a money-drawing gimmick. Personally, I'd like him regardless, because I'm a fan of Cena the wrestler. Its the same way I felt about Edge, and (dating myself,) Hulk Hogan in his prime as both a face in the WWF and a heel in WCW.

As for Cena going part-time, he's in the prime of his career. There's no benefit to Cena or WWE for him to do so. But there are those who believe otherwise:

You Ever Heard of Stone Cold Steve Austin or The Rock we got rid of them but by dammit Cena so invinceable dammit you might want to accept the face that if he keep pulling the dumb ass tatics he's doing like coming back 4 Month's early from an injury.He will have no damn choice whether you like it or not

The Rock left to go make movies in Hollywood, which in his defense, he's made far more money doing. Kudos to him. Austin ostensibly retired because his neck got so bad he no longer could wrestle. How do either of those correlate to John Cena?

Spoiler

They don't.

Cena is a workout machine that has obviously been blessed with tremendous genetics that allow him to recuperate faster then most. It doesn't hurt that at 36, wrestling is still his first love. Nobody pushed Rock or Austin, the two top names of their era, out the door. Rock left for Hollywood, which he's shown to be more then suitable for. Kudos to him. Austin had the bad fortune of injuring his neck and being unable to go any longer, little else.

Cena doesn't want to go to Hollywood, and his injuries have not been dehabilitating, just the opposite. He's come back stronger both times he missed legitimate time with an injury, and hes come back 100%.

What would suggest he'll do anything other than that(come back strong and at 100%), when the facts from his previous injuries show that he has?

Cena should wrestle for as long and at whatever schedule he desires, for as long as he'ld like. WWE is lucky to have a guy like John Cena around, more often then not. And Unlike CM Punk, Chris Jericho, and Paul Heyman, (Or anyone else that's made this claim )Cena truly is the Best In The World. That's my opinion, and some may disagree, and make valid points as to why. But I've over 10 years of proof that leans toward my opinion being moreso a fact. In a cost-benefit analysis, it's apparent that, love him, hate him or somewhere in between, WWE gets the most benefit from John Cena as a full-time wrestler.

And that's a fact, nothing less.

Opinion and Discussion is always welcome here.

 

[Dagger Dias]

WWE gets the most benefit from John Cena as a full-time wrestler.

And that's a fact, nothing less.

I agree with this statement. People beg constantly for Cena to turn heel, and even the thought of him ever going part time should never cross WWE's minds unless he suffered an injury preventing him from competing each week. Like him or not, the federation NEEDS John Cena. Haters can hate all they want, but he is the biggest name in wrestling since the Attitude Era and the face of the current era. There are people who don't even like wrestling know who he is, his popularity has grown that much in the past decade.

They will generate more PPV purchases with Cena participating. More people will watch Raw or Smackdown if he will be on the show. He needs to be available full-time AND as a face, for now anyway. If they happen to find the next big star who can be on the same level as guys like Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Cena himself, then sure go for it and turn him heel. They cannot do it during a time where they would have no top face to take his place. Not to say that Daniel Bryan could not pull off that role, but he is nowhere near as popular as Cena yet and no one on the current roster even comes close. I could MAYBE see Bryan or Sheamus take that place someday. Emphasis on MAYBE. Cena is the top guy and will continue to be until either he retires or is replaced legitimately.

Would I want to see him turn heel someday? Sure, it could be interesting. He could end Undertaker's streak making the heel turn from hell (pun intended) and thus be HATED for the rest of his career. He has the intensity to pull off a heel counterpart persona. I would like to see that happen, but I would much rather see the WWE stay in business! Cena makes them money. Take it from a guy with a Business Administration degree. In a BUSINESS, and WWE is a business, you are in it to make money at the end of the day. Period. It IS all about the money. Us fans getting what we want matters, as long as it gets Vince money. Cena as a top face gets them more money than any alternative right now.

Now then, there's the idea of him going part-time. Why? Would a Football team make their second string play 3 quarters of the game and only bring in their best guys for the last quarter? No. Cena is WWE's top guy and until he stops being their top guy he needs to be full time. Making John Cena go part-time might be the dumbest decision WWE could ever make. They cannot do that until a new top face has been found to permanently take that spot. Can it happen? Sure, but it hasn't happened yet.

Cena as a FULL TIME TOP FACE is not going anywhere. The haters can whine all they want but they know it's true and as Trips would say, what's best for business.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

All so many of those people you're referring to want around here is constant change. It's the same with most in the wrestling business. IWC wants them pushed. Finally they get pushed. IWC thinks they've been pushed too long and get bored. Commence bitching. Look at how Rock was treated when he came back. "Oh he's spouting the same childish rhetoric (yes I used adult terms. I hope the people I'm refering to can understand them) he used all those years ago! I wish he'd go away! He's taking great, young guy's spots like Wade Barrett!" <-----

But the fact is John Cena is getting older, and eventually he's going to have to step down (argue with that LSN. I dare you ). So eventually people will get the change they're looking for. Some of them just go about it in a childish, impatient manner.

At least the one's who go about it saying that they can "respect his work ethic, respect for the business, etc" understand what he's doing out there. Some of them might even get that without him, or even someone else like him in his same exact place, we don't know how the wrestling business would even be doing right now. And while you or I or many others might not agree with some people's opinions, we still respect that they can have them. Different strokes for different folks is all.

 

[MCMG]

From the people I know, one specific example comes to mind, people hate Cena because he is boring, has "the same 5 moves" and he hasn't changed in the last 5 years. I know this isn't the case because my judgement hasn't be clouded by hate. It isn't fact that Cena has " 5 moves" and I fear people might have actually begun to believe something which is meant as hyperbole (I hope)

I have no problem with people who hate John Cena, as long as they are rational. If they hate him because he is successful then fair enough. If they hate him because they don't rate him as a wrestler, so be it. If they just simply don't like John Cena then I have no problems with that either. There are wrestlers (mainly Del Rio) that I dislike and want of my television. However, I'm not so idiotic that I am unable to acknowledge that Alberto Del Rio isn't a good wrestler, because he is. I just don't like other aspects about him but that is my opinion.

I think John Cena can indeed wrestle but the "Cena haters" might not be convinced. I also find John Cena absolutely fantastic on the mic and entertaining. Obviously it isn't "fact" that Cena can wrestle or is entertaining and there isn't a foolproof method of deciding if he is/isnt. It is about opinions and it is fair to say that he isn't Shawn Michaels. However, if hate, as you pointed out, is just out of sheer ignorance then I have a problem.

Cena will always divide opinion and that is one of his strongest characteristics. He KNOWS he will get boo'd, I'm sure he realises which cities effectively hate him more, and he plays of that. CM Punk is great, Bryan is doing well The Shield, Rhodes and Bray Wyatt all have terrific futures but they are not Cena. I don't care if people dislike him but John Cena is a legend of this business and without him the WWE would struggle. Fact.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Scarlett Johansen just won a Sexiest Woman Award from Esquire Magazine. But if she doesn't make my dick move, then she doesn't make my dick move. I see that she has lovely hair, big beautiful eyes, full lips, no wrinkles, a tight body with large symmetric breasts. She is also a very successful actress and may even be a good person but my dick still doesn't move. The stationarity of my dick is still fact despite all of the other facts say that my dick should be ripping through my pants every time she comes on screen. Same for John Cena, despite his success if he doesn't provide a person with the same feelings as the rest of masses, it is still a fact that those people don't have those feeling and are able to extrapolate an opinion from it.

I'm Cenagnostic. Sometimes I think he is great and other times I am bored to tears by his matches and promos. His last two feuds with The Rock have been lackluster. WM 28 was a fun match, WM29 was kind of a chore with just a few fun moments for me. Do I think he deserves to be knocked down the card? No, but I kind of would like to see what that is like. Do I think it would benefit WWE if he went heel? No, but I'd like to see what would happen if he did. Do I think he should go part-time? No, but I understand the arguments behind it (special attraction pull in more PPV buys, more time for others to take his place).

For every Cena mark out there do you see the other side of the argument at all? Do you understand how people feel like they are getting lied to with his super-human ability to recover outside of the ring? Do you realize how much sense it makes for a promoter to lie about a guy's recovery time in order to make him seem that much more super-human? Didn't that speech after Extreme Rules '12 now seem really fishy that he never actually took the break? How many title runs can someone get? How many underdog stories can someone tolerate? Some people like vast movesets, I don't know why they watch WWE but I understand that is their preference.

I get both sides of the arguments but even the most obnoxious facts have some basis in facts. Just depends on how much John Cena makes your dick move.

And please explain LSN how bad of an actor John Cena is with facts LSN, not your opinionated mumbo jumbo.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I agree with the vast majority of the OP. For someone to suggest that John Cena should retreat to part time status is asinine. The man is only 36, is still passionate about the business, is still more than able to go at a very high level, and always leaves a void which WWE struggles to fill when he is (occasionally) off due to injury. To propose that he is only there to move merchandise to kids is equally ridiculous and shows a lack of respect for just how good and valuable Cena is.

The one thing I disagree with is the frank outright discounting of the value of a John Cena heel turn. I don't say this from the perspective of a Cena hater, quite the opposite in fact. There are very few developments in professional wrestling today that could truly shock the world, and that's one of the items on the very short list. I think a John Cena heel turn would be epic and I think it would sell like a son of a bitch. No one before him has been beyond the possibility of a heel turn: not Hogan, not Sting, not the Rock, not SCSA, not HBK, not HHH, not Bret Hart, etc etc yet the suggestion of a John Cena heel turn is met with bewilderment and disbelief. It doesn't have to be forever. It can be done very logically. Merchandise sales, PR considerations, etc need not be adversely affected at all. This doesn't have to be done because super Cena sux or any such nonsense. It should be done because it would be nice to show the world that absolutely anything is possible, so you better stay tuned.

For those who don't think it would sell, consider this. Heel John Cena versus the Undertaker at WM30 in a Casket Match, with or without the WHC on the line, but certainly with the streak at stake. And heel Cena stuffs Taker into a casket to win/retain the title, end the streak, and potentially end the career of the Undertaker in the process. I wonder if anyone would pay to see that? Or if anyone would tune in to RAW the next night to see the fallout and hear the subsequent promo?

 

[DetectiveZelix]

As for me I usually give my opinion of Cena which is neither right or wrong. its just my opinion. I know that the company needs Cena but I don't. I know that Cena sales merchandise and is a vital part and holding interest for most wrestling fans. I guess that's why I feel so strongly about him. the way people feel about Del Rio is the way I feel about Cena. I respect his workrate. I respect his attitude. Hell I'm even respect his allegiance to his fans and beliefs but I myself am not entertained. I feel far too many wrestling fans express themselves like they themselves are part of the business and making the executive decisions. when we were children we didn't say Hulk Hogan should stay on top because he sells merchandise but we just loved to watch him because we related to him and felt like he was our hero. Well until we grew up and discovered he was an ass hold but as a character in wrestling we still like him. Some of us I guess. So I give my opinion of Cena as a fan and not as a businessman.

its obvious he is a replaceable at this moment as the wwe top face but I am not concerned about those things as a fan. That's what people who argue with me need to understand. I mean people don't like hornswoggle or great Khali but just like doink the clown there will always be stupid characters like that for certain audiences. I understand that too but as a fan I don't care for it.

Just like in life people can see someone differently by thier actions or attitudes. I know someone whose the most responsible and well-structured person that I know.But he's a total ass and it's hard to look at him positively despite those great attributes. I can state the facts about him but my opinion differs. I would hire him to work for me but I would never have him as a friend. You understand? That's kind of where I am with Cena. He'd be an awesome talent to hire. His track record speaks for itself however I wouldn't buy his merch or cheer for him as his on screen character isn't entertaining in the least for me

 

[HBsam31]

When thinking of Cena, I try to remember my 8 year old self and what I thought about Hulk Hogan. I was a huge Hulkamaniac and he never got stale for me. I didn't even lose my love for the red and yellow when all of the other fans started cooling off on him. Hogan was on top for my whole childhood, and then he was on top again through my teen years as a heel with the NWO. Hogan only changed his character once, and that was the heel turn. He was on top from roughly 84 to what 98 99? Cena has been the top guy since 2005 if memory serves so about 8 years to Hogan's 14 or 15. The main difference is there were plenty of other stars during Hogan's heel run. You had Savage, Sting, Flair, Nash, Goldberg towards the end. My point is, and I agree with the OP Cena needs to be the top guy right now. I know Cena is Hogan, but looking at Hogan's run it kind of puts things in perspective. I don't love Cena, and I don't hate him. A lot of the negativity towards him is unfounded, and really based off of opinion as LSN said. I was at Raw this past Monday and there were a lot of Cena shirts on the young kids. Do you think they care what we on the internet think of Cena. He is their hero like Hogan was mine. If someone would have told me Hogan couldn't wrestle was I was 8, and that he was getting stale it is quite possible I would have killed them in their sleep. The WWE is here to make money and Cena makes them money whether we like it or not. To suggest Cena go part time is absolutely insane. WWE needs to build new stars. Hell new stars need to build themselves. I think a thread made by Slyfox last week pointed that out. There is plenty of room to shine right now. Aside from Daniel Bryan who is taking that opportunity and running with it? When new stars are made the heel turn will come. I am one that wants to, as hatehabsforever said, see a heel Cena slam the casket lid down on the streak. Those are the moments that made me continue to watch wrestling since I was that 8 year old Hogan fan. The goosebump moments. Moments like the crowd gave me at Summerslam in the Bryan vs Cena match. Cena is not the problem. There has always been a John Cena in the WWE. The problem is our impatience. No one saw the Hogan heel turn coming. I was 16 when it happen and I ran in to the other room jumping up and down yelling to my dad Hogan turned bad Hogan turned bad lol I was 16 acting like that 8 year old again. Cena is going to be on top for sometime to come. What i am saying here is Cena isn't any different than any other top face in the WWE over time. Let him be superman for the kids. It's not like there aren't plenty of other people for us to root for.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Scarlett Johansen just won a Sexiest Woman Award from Esquire Magazine. But if she doesn't make my dick move, then she doesn't make my dick move. I see that she has lovely hair, big beautiful eyes, full lips, no wrinkles, a tight body with large symmetric breasts. She is also a very successful actress and may even be a good person but my dick still doesn't move. The stationarity of my dick is still fact despite all of the other facts say that my dick should be ripping through my pants every time she comes on screen. Same for John Cena, despite his success if he doesn't provide a person with the same feelings as the rest of masses, it is still a fact that those people don't have those feeling and are able to extrapolate an opinion from it.

I'm Cenagnostic. Sometimes I think he is great and other times I am bored to tears by his matches and promos. His last two feuds with The Rock have been lackluster. WM 28 was a fun match, WM29 was kind of a chore with just a few fun moments for me. Do I think he deserves to be knocked down the card? No, but I kind of would like to see what that is like. Do I think it would benefit WWE if he went heel? No, but I'd like to see what would happen if he did. Do I think he should go part-time? No, but I understand the arguments behind it (special attraction pull in more PPV buys, more time for others to take his place).

For every Cena mark out there do you see the other side of the argument at all? Do you understand how people feel like they are getting lied to with his super-human ability to recover outside of the ring? Do you realize how much sense it makes for a promoter to lie about a guy's recovery time in order to make him seem that much more super-human? Didn't that speech after Extreme Rules '12 now seem really fishy that he never actually took the break? How many title runs can someone get? How many underdog stories can someone tolerate? Some people like vast movesets, I don't know why they watch WWE but I understand that is their preference.

I get both sides of the arguments but even the most obnoxious facts have some basis in facts. Just depends on how much John Cena makes your dick move.

And please explain LSN how bad of an actor John Cena is with facts LSN, not your opinionated mumbo jumbo.

You pretty much sum up how I felt about Hogan, Diesel, Austin and Rock - I was agnostic to them rather than a fan or hater... Back in the day I could stomach Hogan winning all the time, but my interest was held by guys like Bret, Bulldogs, Perfect and Rude rather than Hogan and Warrior. Once I started getting tapes of ECW and Japan then Hogan was dead to me.

Cena is kind of like that, but I have a little more respect for him as I remember watching that first Kurt Angle match with my much younger brother and saying "He's gonna be the next top guy and he'll be huge." Not claiming credit for calling or anything, but that I kind of felt the same about Bret and Jericho... if you get on their vibe early then their successes, however often repeated or dull they become are are acceptable as you at least saw it in them. Guys like Orton, Triple H and Ziggler I absolutely never saw it and cannot stand them - particularly Orton - as a human being he is pretty low and I cannot stand his in ring persona, abilities or success.

In Cena's case the biggest misconception is he cannot wrestle more than 5 moves. He can and has since his debut, but the reality is NO top guy has not had the 5 move thing in 25 years. Hogan, Warrior, Diesel, Bret, Yoko, Angle, Jericho all the way down to Punk have a 5 move set that they regularly use. It's essential as it aids booking and putting together matches... Guys always knew how to work with Bret cos of his Russian Legsweep, 2nd rope elbow, Sharpshooter spots. People knew how to work with the less experienced Diesel as he had Snake Eyes, the Big Boot and Elbows and Jacknife.

When they tried to do more or too much, sometimes matches fall apart or become harder for the fans to get into. Most agree that Bret v Davey was a classic, but there was a telling line from Heenan in "Is there anything they haven't done?" any other 2 guys doing that or doing it in a different arena would have bombed.

Cena has the right mix of skill, under rated talent and most importantly passion. The misconception is he gets what he wants and is shoved down our throats... what he wants is to be the face - to do the appearances, make a wish etc... sure he gets paid more than handsomely for it but he hasn't once made noises about time off, retiring, going part time, taking movie roles outside or trying to be anything else than their most reliable hand.

The misconception that he is bad for the business is also wrong. Look at the lengths he went too to stoke up the Rock feud - it started 2 years earlier on a UK interview, the same one he was swerving with "I may not be back for Mania" and won the Rumble 3 days later and most recently stayed on to make sure he put Bryan over at Summerslam when he could easily have not done so. Sure it was WWE's handling of it since that sucked, but Cena left them in a golden position with Bryan.

Now one thing that isn't a misconception is that he does use his postion from time to time. If you get on his bad side, you are fucked and he has done this a couple of times more than a Hogan or even Kliq ever did. Perhaps he sees through these people in his eyes? or perhaps he is sometimes just not the nicest guy backstage, after all he can't be perfect. To think he can be would be the worst misconception of all.

 

[Justin Satiable]

Not logged in and posted in a long time... Anyway, here goes.

It's not so much that I disagree with what you're saying, but simply I don't comply with the perspective. In terms of merchandise and such there's no doubting that John Cena is WWE's number one. However, I don't see how that entitles people who like Cena to completely discredit the opinions of those who don't. I am a Cena hater, I will admit to that. When he beat The Rock at 'Mania, I was mad. Infact, I've been mad every time 'Mania has closed with Cena waving about the championship. Does this make me a bad wrestling fan? Am I wrong?

Perhaps in some ways, yes, you'd be right to say that I am. I don't always cheer the good-guys and boo the bad-guys. In fact, I'd rather Cena hangs around, simply because I get so riled up watching his matches in fear that he will win. (e.g. losing my mind watching MITB 2011 vs CM Punk)

Now, why exactly do I dislike Cena?

There's something inherently displeasant about his dominating underdog character. It's so oxymoronic that it's genuinely irritating. Cena's matches are so formulaic unless he's in the ring with someone much more athletically gifted than him. I don't feel like he's really developed since his draft move to Raw in 2005. No matter what challenges he's faced, he's always somehow placed himself in a pseudo-underdog position, then come out on top. Next, his facial reactions. Between Cena laughing/smiling at heel promos and the crowd screaming "WHAT?!" the show becomes unwatchable. Now don't get me wrong, Cena's promo work can be top-notch. Sometimes he makes me laugh, sometimes his jokes fall flat, but it's his off-the-mic work that annoys me. Lastly, Cena the HOW MANY TIME Champ?! This hot-potato belt crap annoys me. For the longest time I didn't tune in to Raw because I just couldn't tolerate the "belt's made of lava" game.

I get it, I get it. He HAS put a lot of people over. Really, he has put over the people that should have been put over, and the people that didn't come close to his level have gone back to where they belong before they grace the main event scene. That's fine.

I guess the problem I have is that I simply don't enjoy watching him, and it's not for a lack of trying. I used to be a Cena fan. Sadly, like the bread I enjoyed so fervently last week, he is now stale. That's why people clamour for a heel turn. Those people care. They want Cena to do something! Anything to break out of this standstill he's been in since 2006. These people don't really hate Cena, they just want something new. If Cena is to be the main feature of our beloved Raw then all we ask is that we get something exciting, something out of the norm from Cena. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Da Solo]

A. Cena sells more merchandise than anyone else
B. Cena is the top star, and it's not even close

A. At points during his main event reign, Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy and CM Punk all outsold him (and I think Punk still might be, idk). Ryder came damn close too

B. Undeniably true. But when Rock pops up every now and then...

OPINION: I like Cena. Great guy. Loved him from 03-08. Don't like the current incarnation of his character, and I do feel he could do more to shake his Superman schtick up every now and then. A heel turn would actually be great for business with Punk and Bryan here to fill in the face spots.

FACT: Cena is still WWE's face, and will undeniably make what's left of abysmal ADR's title run watchable.

 

[IT Factor]

Some people just get that kind of reception from the net fans. Randy Orton is the same as Cena in this category because some fans absolutely despise him while others love him no matter what. I hate to reinforce the stereotypical smart fan opinion, but Cena is kind of dated with his routine and while I respect his dedication & drive, he is far from my favorite character. Good characters make changes and evolve. Cena fights this inevitable law of pro wrestling & entertainment by remaining the same one dimensional character who is solely a child attraction while the mature adults cannot stand him[well the guys anyway ]. Look at guys like CM Punk or Daniel Bryan, they change based on timing, where their careers are at, and fan reaction. Cena has been despised by most smart fans for years and it is because he remains the same and people are tired of seeing his predictable act. The longer Cena resists change, the more smart fans are going to hate or be indifferent to him. The same can be said of other one dimensional acts like Kofi Kingston or Rey Mysterio, they just remain more of the same which people tire of after a certain point. It is this fundamental fact that fans notice and why Cena may sell merchandise & tickets, but he is far from the best because of.

 

[Mustang Sally]

We can (and do) go on and on, debating every side of this issue, but in the end, the goal of an entertainment company is to have their performers and programs get a reaction from the audience......whether the reaction is positive or negative doesn't matter, although I would imagine the company would like to guide the reaction in the direction they intended.

Most folks who engage in this debate seem to realize that.....love him or hate him, Cena is the main guy in the company. I believe he's smart enough to understand that having folks boo him is actually the same thing as them cheering him.....and that the worst thing any performer can generate is total silence when they appear onstage....no noise, no debate = no good.

I believe Cena's performance, including his dealings in the ring, are far better than many believe. Still, if you want to consider him a lousy wrestler, that's fine. I'm continually finding that if 15 people are in the ring with him, mixing it up, I find my eyes drawn to what he's doing. That's not something you can teach a performer; they've got it or they don't. You find yourself looking at anyone but him? Fine & dandy; that's your privilege.

Remember this: Cena's got power in the company. If Vince McMahon wants him to come back early from injury to fight in the next PPV, and Cena doesn't think he's ready.....if there's anyone in the company that can tell them to shove it, it's him. Yet, he's coming back early, as he's apparently done before. I give him that.

He works as hard as a preliminary wrestler who needs to impress to hang around. He keeps that incredible body of his as fit as a 20-year-old. I give him that, too.

If you think he's boring and you're sick of him, that's your right.

I think he's great and can't wait to see him again. That's my right.

 

[#tamale]

The people in the anti-Cena camp feel that the facts stated by people in the pro-Cena camp are ways to force the people in the former to like him. That's where this divide comes in. In some instances the pro-Cena fans can be overzealous when discussing Cena's facts, but you can't deny them.

John Cena doesn't conform to what the wrestling society wants from him and he doesn't care if you love him or hate him. He can still generate the best things in all the areas of wrestling from reactions to merch and to his matches and that's what so appealing about him. He is still the most popular wrestler in this era and he hasn't swayed his character to fit in for the past 7 years.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

My problem with Cena comes mostly from his ring work. His execution on just about any move is sloppy. I cringe everytime I see him give his opponent a fisherman suplex, STFU, or that top rope leg drop. Outside of that, I get irritated by his promo work when he tries to be funny. I enjoy his serious stuff, but he falls flat on comedy. For the most part I give him a pass on it though since I'm sure the comedy is intended for pre teens.

 

[The Eighties]

He's been on top for over 8 years, it's like Hogan in the 80's, doesn't matter how you feel, I'd have thought most would have accepted he's here to stay on top of the mountain until he decides he wants to climb down, doesn't mean you have to like it but it's business reality.

I quite like him, he has a passion for the business and is a great main event worker. I wouldn't say I'm a fan exactly as some feuds he's been in I've practically tuned out of, but when he's in a hot feud he really is a great talent to watch, just as long as he doesn't try to be funny.

I don't put any stock in move-set as if you go back and watch Flair vs Steamboat and count the moves you'll probably find no more than in a standard Cena match, moves do not make a great wrestler or a great match.

As for his execution, he's never gonna be Bret Hart but neither is CM Punk. I think having moves look a struggle can add just as much to a match as smooth sequences that can veer dangerously close to looking like a dance routine not a fight.

My only disappointment in his early return is that I wanted to see how the show functioned for the rest of the year with other guys on top, and I also wanted his return to be more exciting with his music just hitting one night amidst a big angle, rather than Vickie just announcing that he's facing Bertie at HIAC.

On the reverse side of things people who are trying to use this return to dog Bryan need to factor in the amount of HHH/Big Show focus and realize that the ratings for Raw are better than last year at this time when Cena and Punk were on top, so don't get it twisted. The issue has been two lackluster PPV's in a row with finishes that were worthless, leading to a lot of pissed off fans and the need to get some positive buzz for HIAC.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

The OP is right. Wwe goes on metrics. Metrics say Cena is more of a moneymaker as a face and on tv. My, your, and anyone else's individual opinion doesn't matter. No matter how cool and edgy you think you are suggesting he TURN TEH HEELZ.

As far as his in ring execution....none of you are top pro wrestlers, so none of you actually know how to do any moves, this, NONE of you can say how technical Cena is. Bret hart, Ric flair, Shawn michaels, RVD, dave Meltzer, Bryan Alvarez, and Samoa Joe have all have 2 things in common. 1) they know more than you and 2) they've praised Cena. WURKRATEZ and MOVESETZ! Don't really matter. This isn't gymnastics, you aren't good if you can cram in a lot of fast, smooth moves. It's supposed to tell a story and look like a struggle. Basically the opposite of fast and flippity. That's why fast and flippity doesn't get over.