Different kind of Racism..... WTF?

[Sparky]

Now before i start, No this aint me having a sook as I am only half aboriginal but....

on another forum i go on when this one is quiet and i am bored, there was area sort of like the Prison here and a guy had been put there for making a racist remark about a "black" person. now in the same thread an American told an Australian to "shut the fuck up you stupid aboriginal, go drink another goon bag". now to me thats just as racist as what the other guy said that got him put in prison.

How on earth can Racism be ok for one race but completley unacceptable to every other one. If i was to mouth off in public about a different raced person, i would be fined and maybe even jailed time, yet people can say what they want about Aboriginals. Where is the justice there?

Anywaaayzz. what is your opinion on this, is it acceptable to be able to mouth off at an Aboriginal, but not a "native American" if so... Why?

"I" think it's wrong. I'm one of those people who feel if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all. Not every Aboriginal, is a drunk, who spends all of their days out drinking and causing trouble. most are out there doing an honest days work and work harder then most people. I feel Aboriginal's deserve a bit of respect as they allowed us to live here in the first place. they deserve equal rights and not to be shit on, by people who think its cool to call people names.

 

[NSL]

Even though I only have a small part of Native American in me, I know how you feel.

I think that they both get the brunt of blind racism, because of how small the numbers are, compared to the other races. The number of blacks and hispanics may be small compared to whites, but the number of Native Americans is small to all of them. Who is going to stand up for a Native American when someone makes a comment about all of them being drunks and casino owners, or calling them "injuns"? No one, because the numbers too small to be able to fight and make a difference.

 

[Sparky]

No one, because the numbers too small to be able to fight and make a difference.

That's the funny part. in some parts of Aus, there are more Abo's then there are Normal Aussies. and everywhere else, (sort of like me where i get my fighting spirit from) if someone abuses an Aboriginal to much they snap, there fore givving them a worse name, even though they cop all of the Racial Slurs and such yet they get the bad name for saying a few things to them or even in some cases hitting them.

 

[NSL]

That's the funny part. in some parts of Aus, there are more Abo's then there are Normal Aussies. and everywhere else, (sort of like me where i get my fighting spirit from) if someone abuses an Aboriginal to much they snap, there fore givving them a worse name, even though they cop all of the Racial Slurs and such yet they get the bad name for saying a few things to them or even in some cases hitting them.

This I did not know. And, not to stir up trouble, but isn't saying "Normal Aussies", a form of racism? I understand the point you were making, I just figured I'd point that out.

In any athletic competition, they'll tell you it's never the instigator that gets caught, but the one who reacts. I can't say that you keeping a cool head will ultimately "save" (? - may not be the word I'm looking for), but it won't hurt it, and that's the first step to making a difference.

The only experience I have with anything Australian, is one guy that I worked with for about a year. I don't remember exactly where he was from, but he never had nice things to say about anyone.

 

[Sparky]

This I did not know. And, not to stir up trouble, but isn't saying "Normal Aussies", a form of racism? I understand the point you were making, I just figured I'd point that out.

Yeah it is but Seeing, i am half Aboriginal I couldn't exacly say white now could I... there wasn't really much else i could of said in replace.

In any athletic competition, they'll tell you it's never the instigator that gets caught, but the one who reacts. I can't say that you keeping a cool head will ultimately "save" (? - may not be the word I'm looking for), but it won't hurt it, and that's the first step to making a difference.

Yeah, Maybe but its not really that easy now is it? in some places its pitted out Aboriginals vs non Aboriginals. so its just not one mouthy person harrassing you, its every one in the town.

The only experience I have with anything Australian, is one guy that I worked with for about a year. I don't remember exactly where he was from, but he never had nice things to say about anyone.

Obviously, thats why he left Australia, we Generaly arnt like that. we are a good fun loving country most of the time...

 

[Richard]

Hey now Sparky, I don't know what it's like where you are in Aus, but you have to watch your mouth about Aboriginals here man.

As far as your question about people making racial jokes towards Aboriginals and people thinking it's ok, it's never ok, just as it's never ok to make racial slurs about any racial group, wether it be middle eastern, asian, european, etc.

I would say it only happens because (And I really don't like blaming this, but) the media, like the news shows and news papers right, they only show outback and regional Australia and the problems with the indigenous communities and it's ignorant people who just decide they are all like that.

I have a friend who is half Aboriginal and she is in a band with her mum who is full Aboriginal and they work very hard, harder than most people I know, they toured around Melbourne a month or so ago, and that just proves that all Aboriginals are not like that.

So yeah, if the media did not always show images and news stories about the troubled outback region and the indigineous communities and the problems associated there such as rape, dugs, etc then maybe society would have a better view or perception about Aboriginals.

 

[Sparky]

Hey now Sparky, I don't know what it's like where you are in Aus, but you have to watch your mouth about Aboriginals here man.

Do me a favour mate, Read my post again... Not once did i slag off about the aboriginals. I am one myself...

As far as your question about people making racial jokes towards Aboriginals and people thinking it's ok, it's never ok, just as it's never ok to make racial slurs about any racial group, wether it be middle eastern, asian, european, etc.

I know that. I don't have a racist bone in my body. To me everybody is the same, it don't matter if your black white green or red...

I would say it only happens because (And I really don't like blaming this, but) the media, like the news shows and news papers right, they only show outback and regional Australia and the problems with the indigenous communities and it's ignorant people who just decide they are all like that.

if people are stupid enough to think that the Aboriginals in the NT are the only Aboriginals in Australia then they should stop drinking out of the toilet bowl...

I have a friend who is half Aboriginal and she is in a band with her mum who is full Aboriginal and they work very hard, harder than most people I know, they toured around Melbourne a month or so ago, and that just proves that all Aboriginals are not like that.

I know they are hard workers, that is what I AM SAYING. I am half aboriginal and until recently was working ten hours a day every day of the week.

 

[Tastycles]

Unfortunately, racism towards aborigines is something that has struck me about a large number of Australians that I have met. I emphasise "a large number" and not "all". I don't have a very big knowledge at all of Australian social structue, but it seems to be that the Aborigines are being blamed for all of the problems that they have, and for the problems of the ethnically foreign communities, for want of a better expression.

I remember an Australian girl at school being particularly vile about them, but she insisted that huge racial stereotyping wasn't racist because they were actually that bad. Needless to say, everyone had a go at her, but to no avail.

I don't know what the problem is, but perhaps it is a question of media representation. If everything on tv that is negative about aborigines, then the perception of them will be.

As for the original post, the behaviour of the people on the forum is completely out of order, and they should be banned. The thing is, ithe guy who he said it to is probably not an aboriginal, so it is a general country based slur. This sort of thing is racist, but it isn't as frowned upon as skin colour based racisim. Using the "n-word" is seen as far worse than calling someone a sheepshagger or whatever, when in reality, it is exactly the same.

 

[Azrael Cain]

Here in the States we have a little thing called "Reverse Racism," (RR) which boggles my mind to be quite honest. RR, includes a black person hating on a white person because of their color, and due to the history of slavery, we put up the term 'reverse racism,' since it was the white man that kept the Negro enslaved for 300 years. The phrase literally makes me angry because true reverse racism would be the opposite [read: reversed!] of racism, in that the races are being nice to each other.

I suppose it's semantics I am toying with, but the stupidity of people and what society will let others get away with in the name of guilt is ludicrous.

Anyway, on to your topic. Racism is racism, regardless of whom it is aimed. It knows no boundaries or limitations, if I am correct in my definition, and it has also spread globally much in part to the slavery that occurred in the America some 300 years ago. I myself think that the notion of one "race" being superior to another is ridiculous. The changes in skin that people have are caused by a biological factor: melanin, if I am not mistaken. One can get darker skin by being out in the sun too long, and by the theory that pale people are superior, the moment someone gets tanner, s/he is immediately in the category of an inferior race. And these days it is hip to be tan -- so we're shooting ourselves in much more than the foot here, us lovable hypocritical folks.

I think in this case it is safe to assume that the American poster is trying (and succeeding) in pushing buttons and trying to get a rise. That does not excuse the comments made; they are without doubt ignorant, hurtful and hateful (the very notions upon which racism is founded) and they are simultaneously designed to evoke a response of defense and more hostility. I cannot go as far as to speculate about the intelligence level or the knowledge of said poster, but it seems to me that if one must use such hateful and ridiculous insults, the wattage is most likely not so high.

I hope that the poster was reprimanded and dealt with as a result of the comments.

And also on this note, people feel that they can say whatever they wish about anyone, regardless of race, mostly because people are a) egocentric and b) hypocritical. People are quick yo jump to assumptions and conclusions without checking facts, and those that are the recipients of the hate get upset and lash out, further "justifying" the stereo-type. People seldom realize that once a word leaves the confines of the mind it can never return, and people also refuse to take responsibility for the shit that comes out of their mouth, feeling "justified" by the fact that history or the majority or their biased and corrupted world view will somehow justify their remarks (mind you, my (and anyone else's for that matter) rantings are no different, but the context is ).

It is not okay to hate, and yet it is far easier to do than tolerate or accept. It comes from a lack of understanding and a lack of respect among all peoples, and is a damn shame. A look in the mirror and some serious work within ourselves would prove more beneficial than all this hate we're wasting our breath on...

 

[Deadman]

Now before i start, No this aint me having a sook as I am only half aboriginal but....

on another forum i go on when this one is quiet and i am bored, there was area sort of like the Prison here and a guy had been put there for making a racist remark about a "black" person. now in the same thread an American told an Australian to "shut the fuck up you stupid aboriginal, go drink another goon bag". now to me thats just as racist as what the other guy said that got him put in prison.

How on earth can Racism be ok for one race but completley unacceptable to every other one. If i was to mouth off in public about a different raced person, i would be fined and maybe even jailed time, yet people can say what they want about Aboriginals. Where is the justice there?

Anywaaayzz. what is your opinion on this, is it acceptable to be able to mouth off at an Aboriginal, but not a "native American" if so... Why?

"I" think it's wrong. I'm one of those people who feel if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all. Not every Aboriginal, is a drunk, who spends all of their days out drinking and causing trouble. most are out there doing an honest days work and work harder then most people. I feel Aboriginal's deserve a bit of respect as they allowed us to live here in the first place. they deserve equal rights and not to be shit on, by people who think its cool to call people names.

I feel u and i am black racism should not be anywhere wen im on youtube brits and Aboriginals all talk bout us americans calling us names and adding 2 the rascim i belive we should as a fourm try 2 end racsim lets make a band together freind

 

[Deadman]

Here in the States we have a little thing called "Reverse Racism," (RR) which boggles my mind to be quite honest. RR, includes a black person hating on a white person because of their color, and due to the history of slavery, we put up the term 'reverse racism,' since it was the white man that kept the Negro enslaved for 300 years. The phrase literally makes me angry because true reverse racism would be the opposite [read: reversed!] of racism, in that the races are being nice to each other.

I suppose it's semantics I am toying with, but the stupidity of people and what society will let others get away with in the name of guilt is ludicrous.

Anyway, on to your topic. Racism is racism, regardless of whom it is aimed. It knows no boundaries or limitations, if I am correct in my definition, and it has also spread globally much in part to the slavery that occurred in the America some 300 years ago. I myself think that the notion of one "race" being superior to another is ridiculous. The changes in skin that people have are caused by a biological factor: melanin, if I am not mistaken. One can get darker skin by being out in the sun too long, and by the theory that pale people are superior, the moment someone gets tanner, s/he is immediately in the category of an inferior race. And these days it is hip to be tan -- so we're shooting ourselves in much more than the foot here, us lovable hypocritical folks.

I think in this case it is safe to assume that the American poster is trying (and succeeding) in pushing buttons and trying to get a rise. That does not excuse the comments made; they are without doubt ignorant, hurtful and hateful (the very notions upon which racism is founded) and they are simultaneously designed to evoke a response of defense and more hostility. I cannot go as far as to speculate about the intelligence level or the knowledge of said poster, but it seems to me that if one must use such hateful and ridiculous insults, the wattage is most likely not so high.

I hope that the poster was reprimanded and dealt with as a result of the comments.

And also on this note, people feel that they can say whatever they wish about anyone, regardless of race, mostly because people are a) egocentric and b) hypocritical. People are quick yo jump to assumptions and conclusions without checking facts, and those that are the recipients of the hate get upset and lash out, further "justifying" the stereo-type. People seldom realize that once a word leaves the confines of the mind it can never return, and people also refuse to take responsibility for the shit that comes out of their mouth, feeling "justified" by the fact that history or the majority or their biased and corrupted world view will somehow justify their remarks (mind you, my (and anyone else's for that matter) rantings are no different, but the context is ).

It is not okay to hate, and yet it is far easier to do than tolerate or accept. It comes from a lack of understanding and a lack of respect among all peoples, and is a damn shame. A look in the mirror and some serious work within ourselves would prove more beneficial than all this hate we're wasting our breath on...

K now i have 2 correct u there here in in the deep south of texas and in the states what u just said kinda makes me mad yes racsim is wrong but 400 not 300 get it straight is pain my race my family has 2 live through everday and us as a race our still bign mistreaed but we contoune 2 live on but hey we get 400 years og getin lychend and being in shackels and hosed down while makin a march brings us a black presdent huh

 

[Azrael Cain]

Now hold on a minute. Your ancestors may have had to live through the horror of physical, human slavery. You and your family are not slaves. I am sure the argument can be raised on a philosophical standpoint that we are all slaves to something or someone, but if we're talking about a man owning another man, that has been illegal for 400 years. You are not a slave. Your family are not slaves. The argument that this is your pain is complete bullshit because it isn't -- it's the horror and guilt and pain of your ancestry. There is a huge difference between then and now, in regard to physically owning others.

Was it unethical and immoral? Of course. Was it wrong and deprived? Without question. But it did not happen to you personally. There is no question that "Down South" racism is to this day a sensitive issue. It's a sensitive issue anywhere because of its lasting legacy. But from every horror and tragedy in history comes a lesson for the future generations -- in this case that lesson is clearly the tolerance and respect for other beings, regardless of their color.

Whether or not we have learned or are still in the process is arguable. Hatred is still as rampant as it ever was, and many use the legacy of slavery as a justification for lashing out and committing crimes against others. It has to stop. Is it easy to forgive and let go of the inhuman injustices? No. But you don't see me killing Germans left and right because of the Holocaust, do you? You don't seem me bringing that up and justifying my ancestors suffering to take my hostility on all of Germany.

Not every white man has slave-owning ancestry, just like not every black man has slaves in ancestry. If you want to get technical, blacks owned other black slaves too -- explain that to me.

Too much emphasis on color and too much hate. At the end of the day, no matter how much lighter or darker someone's skin is, all they want to do is be loved, understood, accepted and respected.

Stop living in the past.

 

[Tim]

Anywaaayzz. what is your opinion on this, is it acceptable to be able to mouth off at an Aboriginal, but not a "native American" if so... Why?

No. It isn't acceptable to mouth off at someone just because they are another race. Aboriginals haven't done anything to the white Australians, and in fact we've disrupted their way of life, and forced our way of living onto the Aboriginals. And then we are for some reason allowed to get away with making racist remarks towards them, hitting them etc. And like SParky said, most Aboriginals are honest hardworking men, just like everyone else. But they are portrayed as the people who live in the bush, who squander their money on alcohol and drugs. Most people just og off of this, and it's what fuels the racism.

I'm assuming this forum you're talking about is predominantly American, and as such, they don't really understand Australia that much if they let that slide, and feel it's ok. Don't ask why, but i'm assuming. But since they live in America, and know what's right and wrong there, they know that making a racist remark against a Native American is wrong. They get confused between what's acceptable in Australia and in America. Or maybe the mods and admins there are just plain stupid.

 

[Deadman]

Now hold on a minute. Your ancestors may have had to live through the horror of physical, human slavery. You and your family are not slaves. I am sure the argument can be raised on a philosophical standpoint that we are all slaves to something or someone, but if we're talking about a man owning another man, that has been illegal for 400 years. You are not a slave. Your family are not slaves. The argument that this is your pain is complete bullshit because it isn't -- it's the horror and guilt and pain of your ancestry. There is a huge difference between then and now, in regard to physically owning others.

Was it unethical and immoral? Of course. Was it wrong and deprived? Without question. But it did not happen to you personally. There is no question that "Down South" racism is to this day a sensitive issue. It's a sensitive issue anywhere because of its lasting legacy. But from every horror and tragedy in history comes a lesson for the future generations -- in this case that lesson is clearly the tolerance and respect for other beings, regardless of their color.

Whether or not we have learned or are still in the process is arguable. Hatred is still as rampant as it ever was, and many use the legacy of slavery as a justification for lashing out and committing crimes against others. It has to stop. Is it easy to forgive and let go of the inhuman injustices? No. But you don't see me killing Germans left and right because of the Holocaust, do you? You don't seem me bringing that up and justifying my ancestors suffering to take my hostility on all of Germany.

Not every white man has slave-owning ancestry, just like not every black man has slaves in ancestry. If you want to get technical, blacks owned other black slaves too -- explain that to me.

Too much emphasis on color and too much hate. At the end of the day, no matter how much lighter or darker someone's skin is, all they want to do is be loved, understood, accepted and respected.

Stop living in the past.

I hate to tell u this but u dont know me u most likly didnt know that when i was 7 i woke up to a burning cross in my front lawn, or maybe my mom and dad getting hosed thown during marches in the 60's for my civil rights so dont assume that u know me.

 

[Azrael Cain]

I never claimed to know you. I don't know you. And you don't know me either.

What I do know is you're using the past as an excuse to hate. All I can do is tell you that it's "normal" to do so, but it is my opinion that it needs to stop. And not just with you specifically, everyone in the world needs to realize that the past is there so that we learn from it. It isn't to be used as an excuse or as an example for advancement of power of some sort.

This is because I am personally sick of people using the past as a justification for hatred of others. I have had personal experiences and know people who still hang on to the past, too afraid to let go. The past is the past -- let it go, move on, you'll feel better.

And btw, it's 2009. We just inaugurated a Black President. This ain't the 60s. And I hate to burst your bubble but no one -- black, white, whatever -- has any rights in this country to begin with. Your civil rights can be trampled on as easily as mine, or as anyone else's, if someone in power sees the need for that to happen.

Race is a social construct and a means of control, a means of "making sense" of the world around us (by that I mean the Americas). The social roles of Blacks as Slaves and Whites as Masters is one of the stigmas left over from slavery, and it must be dealt with and must be changed from a fundamental standpoint in society. Racism is just another way for people to hate one another.

The cross you woke up to, your parents getting hosed, your ancestors being slaves -- horrible things to have to endure, unimaginable even. But those events don't give you the right to hate another person, especially generations removed. 400 years is a long time to hold a grudge, a long time to hate.

Hasn't there been enough hate in the world as it is?

 

[Azrael Cain]

Let me ask exactly, out of interest, what do you disagree with, DeadMan?

I would like you to know that I know how you feel, mostly because my people have been hated on since the 3rd century BCE. And on a more personal note, my family has also had to put up with hatred from others: my mother had to change her last name to get into a University when she graduated High School, after having been teased for years about it. My grand-father repeatedly had to put up with ridicule and confrontations while in the Army, and while holding down a job as a Teacher. He battles with withe hatred and racism to this day as a result of people's ignorance and unwillingness to stop hating.

They're not a burning cross to wake up to, but they are just as real and just as meaningful and impactful as your troubles. But you need to realize that hardships are universal and not limited to the notions of race. In fact, as I stated earlier, race is a social construct and is often not based on skin color -- though it is the most noticeable physical difference -- but on differences in general, because we as people like to focus on what sets us apart rather than what unites us.

If it's the pity and sympathy you were looking for for all the "bad things" done to "your people," open a History textbook and embrace and face the fact that all people throughout history have suffered, and slavery existed long before Africans were transported against their will to the Americas.

Please realize that I am not excusing slavery, but again look at history and see that slaves were not always based on skin color. A slave was at one point [in the Americas] known as an indentured servant, and could be free. That role, if I recall correctly, was free for all who wanted to move to America: colored or not. It was later in history, when the "need" for labor emerged that Africans began to be exploited.

It is also noteworthy that until coming to America, a Caucasian was not "White" but was from wherever country s/he came from: Scandinavia, Germany, Russia, etc. However with time American came to mean White, and the society with the laws we know today was put into effect. It is this hierarchy and these notions that we must be unafraid to confront and realize that we are far more similar than different.

Just like "your" suffering and "my" suffering, and the suffering of our respective people. I read your posts, I feel hatred and an unwillingness to let go. I understand the need to hold on, to remember the suffering, to give it meaning and make sure that the injustice does not go unnoticed. Trust me, it hasn't. It's in history books and it's always brought up (as we see here) and is always danced around because of its sensitivity. But just because it's a sensitive subject does not make the ancestors of those who suffered it automatically right in their hatred. All parties are wrong, if you want to get specific.

Again, I could easily hold a grudge against all Germans and claim they are all Nazis who butchered 6,000,000 of my people and should suffer. The kids of the kids of the kids of those that did the deed are not those people. They are, quite possibly, ignorant of the realities of that time and the social order of things -- things were different then, just like things are different and changing on a daily basis now.

White folks feel bad enough, they don't need a constant reminder of how badly they fucked up, but it's easier to rub someone's nose in their fuck up than try and solve the true problem at heart.

I don't expect you to change your view, or even agree with me. I don't expect anything, really. I'm just saying, and I apologize for all you think you've suffered, but I will bet that holding on to all of it is just adding to the hardships, and eventually it'll all explode one day from an overflow. That'll be a rather dark day in your life and the lives of those that know you.

...but whatever. My job is to express my opinion without intentionally insulting you. I tried my best to do so -- maybe it worked, maybe it didn't. My job is to raise awareness, I did that.

The rest is up to you....