"Die Rocky Die"

[buddyriffic]

I was thinking back to when The Rock broke in as Rocky Maivia, and went through that rut with his popularity. It spiraled all the way down to the bottom for him, capped off with a nice "Die Rocky Die" sign at Wrestlemania for his match against The Sultan. The worst I've seen these days is "If Cena wins we riot" when he fought RVD at One Night Stand. But besides the signs, the fans back then....they REALLY hated Rock at the time. As in I think they wanted him gone. Were the fans of that generation just that much edgier and hard to please? I couldn't picture fans these days hating on somebody quite that much. Even Cena never got hated on until later in his career, when he stopped being good, for lack of a better way to explain it. These fans back then were trying to cut Rock's head off before he was even born. I guess this was a generation that was just getting ready to embrace the heels of society and turn on the Bret Harts, etc. Is the way the fans hate Cena now similar to the hatred that the Rock felt back then, or not at all? Is there ever going to be a mega-star type of wrestler sometime in the future that fans are going to try to snub right off the bat, in a particularly abrupt and crude fashion like this? Seems like the crowd response is more cookie-cutter these days in the WWE.

 

[TokiRKO]

haha good post man, very thought filled. Honestly, if i met Cena in a back alley, yeah lmao. I believe that WWE now pulls a lot of signs (there was an incident with a...savage sign i believe a while back). If that's the case then you have your answer, VKM won't LET any one have signs like that now, it might make Cena cry. I'm pretty sure the only reason the Cena riot sign made it in the building was because it was the Hammerstein Ballroom and you don't fuck with an ECW original's sign lol. These are the fans who used to bring their own frying pans and cheese graters to the shows (and people USED THEM)

 

[Takerfan93]

Good thread. I think back then fans were more passionate about wrestling, because they were given a good product to be passionate about. These days its more "meh" because the creative team has gotten lazy, and the fans have given up on them.

The WWE's main concern ever since WCW is to make money. Back in those days it was all about the wrestling, either put their best product out there or go out of business. Now they have no competition and they know there is basically no other option so they don't have to try to make good television, so they don't usually (except at Wrestlemania time). The rest of the time they focus on promoting DVDs, celebrities, their economic success and boosting merchandise sales.

This is why they havn't bothered to do anything with John Cena. Back in 2006 - 2007 he was getting so many boods it was unbelievable, it got so bad that eventually he even had to acknowledge it every week rather than pretend it wasn't happening like they do when its some boos. The people hated Cena. Now those people still hate Cena, but you can't hear them as much because since 2008 the WWE went PG and much of the fans at shows are kids now, who cheer him. So the boos from the old school fans can't be heard as well.

But WWE havn't done anything about it, because they don't need to, there won't be any consequences. They NEEED to change Cena, turn him heel, make him rapper again, ANYTHING. That's what they did with the Rock, they changed his character completely, they let him be himself and he became one of the most popular wrestlers of all time. That is what they need to do with Cena. But sadly they haven't and won't for the forseeable future because what's going to happen if they don't? Nothing. It's not like people can get annoyed and switch over to another show because there is no other show. I guess some could go for TNA, but only one hour is opposed to RAW now and in my opinion, TNA sucks anyway. So WWE is the only option; there are us fans who have been annoyed with the product for a long time now but we continue watching anyway. This is because we are real wrestling fans and need to watch at least something, and because there is no other show to watch. TNA is trying to do something similar to the Attitude Era but they just can't do it like the WWE did.

So basically what I'm trying to say is that Cena is the Rocky of this generation, but only to the real fans, not the kids which is WWE's focus now. This is why they won't do anything about it. As a face, he sells T-Shirts, wrist bands, caps, toy belts, action figures and that is all that matters to them. So no matter how many boos we give, as long as the kids love him nothing will change.They had the oppurtunity to change Cena is 2006 - 2007 when he was getting boos all over the place, but for some reason they didn't bother. That is when they should have turned him heel.

 

[AshleyFTW]

I think the removal of signs (which I've seen happen) is more to do with WWE being PG and broadcast in HD, meaning alot of the signs are pretty crystal clear and readable, compared to a few years back when you only really noticed the ones at the front or those they zoomed in on.

 

[dethgar]

Actually they've let Cena be himself to an extent, that IS how he got over to begin with. It's just that once he got over, they changed him to the corporate image. The image they wanted to sell to a "wider" audience.

Die Rocky Die was in an era where the WWF had to do whatever it needed to please fans; they didn't have a lot of them at the time. Now they're the only global promotion, and can censor whatever they want.

 

[Vintage]

The Cena we have now reminds me a lot of the first incarnation of The Rock, "The Blue Chipper" who was absolutely nauseating on the mic and very green in the ring. He beat a HHH for a title not long after he debuted. I remember watching that like wtf. He got a huge push if I remember correctly at the same time that Stone Cold was on fire, much like how Randy Orton is now. Between who he was beating,how generic and goody goody his character and his in ring style at that time it got old fast. Cena on the other hand used to be the guy who was against authority, like SCSA and Orton. Cena used to be gold on the mic. I can't say he was a better wrestler but without the Superman gimmick his matches flowed better. Rocky Maivia and Marine Cena are boring characters whom are getting the corporate push and fans don't usually take kindly to those whom are being shoved down our throats(HBK,HHH,Hogan,Sheamus,McIntyre have went through this at one time or another for example) Perhaps if the ring work was better it would be less of an issue and you could ignore the flaws but in Cena's case the '5 Moves of Doom' seems to factor into some of his heat. I don't remember Rocky's earlier stuff but I do know he wrestled differently as The Rock and improved greatly over time. Cena has actually seemed to degenerate in the ring, he was pretty good as the Prototype so I do know he has a lot more to offer. Good question.. never realized how much they have in common

This thread brought back fond memories of going to the Elks lodge in queens with a toaster and a plunger to give to the Gangstas when they came into the crowd for some toys.

 

[Marko Markovic]

First of "good thread"

Well IWC is very hard to please.When the same people are in main events we cry because they dont give other wrestlers a chance.When they finaly gave somebody else a chance we cry because its not the one we wanted them to push(case Sheamus and recently case Swagger)

It was different before attitude era,people cheared for faces and booed the heels.In attitude era a lot has changed and one of the stuff that has changed most is crowd reaction.Crowd started to support heels and booed faces and when somebody doesnt get appropriate crowd reaction like Rock in those days people will do something to make themselves clear that they dont like him(hence "Die,rocky,die" sign)

Today it is different.Its PG era and crowd is full of kids who love John Cena and HHH even though most of the IWC hates their guts.Even when for example Cena doesnt get good crowd reaction they edit it to look like they wanted.Its the same with signs, today they have so many camera angles that even when somebody wrotes something they dont like nobody would notice that because they would just shoot from the different angle and remove the sign later

My point is that most of IWC today doesnt hate certain wrestlers,they just like or dislike their gimmicks in cases like Cena or in HHH case his family backstage connections.In attitude era it was different because whole crowd reaction was way bigger.Today its watered down because of PG era and editing.

If you ask me its very hard to please IWC and that is why certain reactions occur even if they are inappropriate in the moment

PS In case you are wondering I dont hate Cena or HHH it was just my example how IWC can hate certain wrestlers because these two are most common in such "hate discussions"

 

[3,000 Pound Gorrilla]

As far as the signs go... every last sign that went into WM26 was checked prior to getting in the door. So, I am sure there are stringent guide lines that the "E" gives the venue prior to an event. An above poster said something about HD...bravo man...bravo. Never thought about that, but yeah the nose bleed signs can be read as well as the floor and ramp signs.

And, well, Cena is stale like the Rock was stale back in the day. He still sells merch, which is what is important... so we won't soon see a change. At WM26, probably 1 in 3 people had Cena gear (my older son included). So, he make-ah the moooonay. And there you have it.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Awesome thread.

"Die Rocky Die" was definitely when the fans were more heard then the company itself. The Rock had to change, it was the only way he could get over with the crowd and Vince knew it. You have to keep in mind this was the same generation that tuned in to Jerry Springer on a weekly basis. Shock value was selling big time, and VKM saw this and ran with it. If he didn't, well maybe The Attitude Era would have been PG and The Rock would be the John Cena of his day...

As for the signs of old, it more or less is a bummer. Last time I checked the WWE fans paid to see the stars live. But alas children and the PG Era.

 

[maar130]

Well in view, the thing about that time was about anarchy, people use to embrase the anti-heros like never before, the good guys that were supposed to be loved started to be hated and booed, first exmaple before the Rock was Shawn Michels at 1996 Survivor Series (Actually the night Rocky debuted) when he faced Psycho Sid, I mean Sid was a tweener at the time and Michaels was the biggest babyface at the time and people turned on him that night, eventhough Sid won in a clear heel fashion, That nig Bret also face Stone Cold for the very first time and eventhough Austin got booed, that night people really started embracing Austin and turning on Bret.

Rocky defeated HHH on a Thursday special fo Raw to capture his first Intercontinental championship just about 4 months from his debut, but the character was bland and even The Rock recognized that sometimes it was too goo and the strangest thing was the He had to keep smilling even when it was supposed to be down.

By the time the competition with WCW was very stiff and well, people were getting tired of the "good" guys, the only one that didn't have much a problem was The Undertaker but he has never being a complete true face in his whole career.

John Cena and The Rock can be compared but only at the beginning of their careers, befoe Cena became a rapper, because once The Rock was unleashed, the character was always remaing on the same tone, with some little changes from heel to face and face to heel but the escense remained the Same, Cena on the other hand passed from the rapper to the "marine" type of guy and it is a change that has been significant, while the Rock was becomming edgier and edgier (also because of the era he was in), Cen has toned downn a lot (also to be the representative for this era) to mark way better between good and bad guys.

About the signs, it is way more controlled now and that also helps WWE to push who they want and to control what gets on TV, while they do not control what the crowd does or try to, with editing for taped shows it helps get things done.

In 2006 when RVD won the title, they knew that was coming and never tried to control people of the old EC arena, actually embraced the idea so Cena could be "against the Word" and therefore, justifying the lost to RVD, even people thanked Edge for the interference.

Just something out the sign stuff, There was reference to the "If Cena Wins, we riot" sign, well on Summerslam of that same year Edge faced Cena for the title in Cena's Hometown, and some guys had pretty much the same sign but with the opposite message, I thing it said "If Cena loses, we riot", it was so funny and sad at the same time when Edge retained and actually got cheered by the crowd, these poor guys had to take away their sign and were almost crying, I am not a Cena Hater but I am a fan of Edge's work so for me that was damn funny.

 

[Attitude_Raven]

yep, Rocky started with an obsolete gimmick, that obviously woulkd've worked in the early 90s or even now, but most of the young fans of that time (like me) were dfferent to the 80s politically correct guys form the 80s (the grunge movement, the more adult TV shows and the hard hitting action movies made an impact in the whole society), so Wrestling had to embrace the social evolution, like it ever does, and the first (mainstream) proof was the inception of the nWo (bad guys who were over with the crowd) and in response to that WCw needed a change of image on the good guys side to tell a story, so Sting changed from a cookie cutter babyface to a dark anti hero.
and WWF also turned upsidedown as Austin (the rebel heel) and Bret (the moralistic face) made the double turn and then WWF went onto an edgier direction, then Rocky appeared as the thypical american babyface and after having a good anti hero like Austin, which fans related to him, seeing that goofy good guy was sooo lame, that they really rejected him, a big mistake, so the solution: change his forced character and let himn be himself, and it worked so great that people forgot who "Rocky Maivia" was, if there's something that made The Great One so popular that wasn't his ring skills (he wwas a great athlete but technical fans wouldn't appreciate him as so) or his catchphrases, but his passion when he performed, if he weren't allowed to be himself and use his whole pottential, maybe we wouldn't remember him now