Did WrestleMania IV Need The Tournament?

[HBKperfect23]

Looking back, I think everyone watching (I know I did) totally saw this as a way to promote a couple of top tier guys in important matches but ultimatley put the belt back on Hogan, either going over Andre or DiBiase to do it. Of course, without the Internet leaking top secret behind the scenes info like Hogan wanting time off TV I has no idea Hulk wanted out for awhile, necessistating a new champ being crowned. McMahon wasnt ready to end Hulk's undefeated streak, at least via clean pinfall (he'd lost matches via Count-Out & DQ before, Andre's victory on the NBC Prime Time Special was a complete screw job) so the tournament was created as a way to get Hogan out of the title picture and crown a new champ but crown him in dominating, impressive fashion without going over Hogan. They did a similair thing in 1992 when they were toying with the idea of Hogan-Flair by having Flair win the title in The Royal Rumble, wrestling over an hour, basically beating the whole company, but not pinning Hogan in the middle of the ring, about as impressive a win as he could get without cleanly taking out Hogan in mid ring, leaving some mystique if they did face off (a variety reasons, including Hogan's implication in the growing Federal Steroids Probe that nearly put Vince out of business, conspired to keep that match from happening at the time).

Was the tournament needed ? Id say yes - Otherwise you would have to explain how the top two contenders were achieved for the final match without Hogan being involved. This way you have Hogan on the show, pumping up event interest, and you have a way to protect him from a loss and still crown a new champ in impressive fashion. Savage's win was a landmark event in the company, and his career obviously, the ultimate reward for his hard work and dedication (and how often he made Hogan, Steamboat, and others look good). Hogan didnt really lose steam over it though, the unclear finish with Andre explained his elimination in believable fashion (unlike the twin refs scenario used to explain his earlier pinfall loss to Andre, one of the more creative but utterly ridiculous endings of all time) and did not hurt him or damage Savage's credibility as champ.

Never thought of it this way. This is a great point. The title transitiion from Hogan to Savage with the screwjob, tourny, and setting up the year long mega powers explode angle, it really was genius.

Savage for sure built credibility as a top draw that night. I really think 88 was a great year for savage and a fantastic year from wrestling in general.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

You all know what I'm about to talk - WrestleMania IV - historical for the first ever WWF Championship Tournament that ended up with Randy "The Macho Man" Savage winning it and becoming champion for the first time.

There are a lot of rumors surrounding every bit of this event, I've read things about Randy Savage being only a contender for the main title, because Honky Tonk Man did not want to drop the IC Title to Savage. It's a bunch of crazy stories with the debut of Clash of The Champions being involved as well. As a matter of fact the inaugural Clash of The Champions did manage to beat WrestleMania IV, not only did the buys were "lower" than expected but also in the quality department.

So I've been watching some Golden Era stuff and this particular time is really interesting. In one side we still had Hulk Hogan and Andre being the main feud, on the other you had Savage and Ted Dibiase reaching the top quite fast. It all started to play out when Dibiase debuted in 1987 and told the world he could buy anything, including the WWF Championship. He tried to bought it out of Hulk Hogan but couldn't do it - so he eventually helped Andre The Giant get his hands on the championship with a big plan that played out on the very first The Main Event with two twin referees. (oh I loved the fact that Andre actually told he would go on a cruise with the money Dibiase would give him for the championship, just to see the difference in storylines between then and now)

However Andre's reign while not lasting long (as a matter of fact, seconds) did manage to change the entire landscape of the WWF. President Jack Tunney did not accept Ted Dibiase as the champion, because he did not win it. So he announced a tournament for WrestleMania IV. But let's work with our minds and have some fun here.

Let's go back to that The Main Event and completely forget the possibility of being ever in place a tournament. What would you do? Who would go over? What would be your card to follow up an enormous WrestleMania III?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Can't be bothered to think up a whole card, but without the tournament my main event would've been Dibiase vs. Hogan. No need to promote Hogan/Andre on consecutive Mania shows. I know Dibiases title reign doesn't count, but it should if reighs like Triple H's first WHC and that Orton reign when he was handed the WWE Championship at a No Mercy show count. Dibiase wanted the belt enough that he paid for it, HHH & Orton got them handed to them. Who's really more deserving.

Anyway, Hogan vs. Dibiase. Hogan wins. Loses it to Andre some time later, the belt is held up, tournament at SummerSlam. Status Quo restored. Nobody wants to mess with history too much. It fucks up The Mega Powers if anything. AND YOU CAN'T MESS WITH ANYTHING THE MEGA POWERS DID!

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Well, if you're asking me what I would do, I would have destroyed the status quo, but of course, things like that weren't commonplace back then, so take these changes with a pinch of salt:

1. WWF Intercontinental Championship: The Junkyard Dog vs. The Honky Tonk Man (c)

Without knowing how awesome Warrior's IC title win would be, I probably would have booked JYD to beat HTM for the title. A black man with the title would have been huge, plus he was pretty over. I might have put the title back on HTM at a later date, but this would have been a nice treat at the PPV.

2. Jake "The Snake" Roberts vs. Rick Rude

I'd keep this match the same, except that instead of it ending in a draw, I'd have Jake pull off a decisive victory. Mania was always a show with decisive finishes and it would have been great to see Jake pull out the victory.

3. The British Bulldogs and Koko B. Ware vs. Bad News Brown and The Hart Foundation

BNB was a great character and one of the first ever tweeners. I'd start some beef with the Bulldogs at the Rumble and have him team up with the Harts at Mania against them and Koko. But at the big show, I'd have BNB betray the Harts and help the other team win, turning face in the process even though he had a big loss.

4. Hacksaw Jim Duggan vs. Andre the Giant

I'd have Andre pull out a decisive victory against this crowd favorite just so Ted can point out right after that Andre will be gunning for the WWF Championship after this PPV.

5. Bam Bam Bigelow vs. One Man Gang w/ Slick

I'd have Bam Bam beat OMG in a big victory so he can feud with Honky Tonk Man after he gets the title back from the JYD.

6. WWF Tag Team Championship: Strike Force (c) vs. Demolition

This is another match I'd keep widely intact. Under other circumstances, I would have had The Harts turn face sooner and beat a heel Demolition for the titles at WrestleMania, but considering the landscape they had at the time, this match was the best bet for the tag division.

7. 20-Man Battle Royal: The Ultimate Warrior

Warrior was gonna be huge. They needed to capitalize and have him decimate competition showcasing him here in the battle royal. Put everyone else in the battle royal like Brutus Beefcake and Hercules for some signature spots.

8. Hulk Hogan vs. Ted DiBiase w/ Andre the Giant

I'd have the tournament for the title right after SNME with Randy turning heel with Ted's assistance to win. Hogan would go on to face Ted one-on-one at Mania for revenge.

9. WWF Championship: Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage (c)

I'd have Randy sell out and cheat to win the title earlier in the year, and Ricky will try to talk sense into him, but Randy will flip out because Ricky was the guy who took the Intercontinental title off him last year. Randy will refuse to let him take this one too. They do the big rematch with Ricky beating Randy again and taking the WWF Championship.

I'd follow this up with Randy turning on Ted later in the year and teaming up with Ricky to win the tag titles from Demolition. Andre wins the WWF title, and then drops it to Hogan at SummerSlam in the "biggest rematch of all time". Honky Tonk Man takes the title back from JYD and then drops it to Warrior at SS. Bad News Brown would feud with The Harts right after, maybe teaming up with Koko for a tag team feud.

 

[NxtBigThing]

With just focusing on the World Championship I would have had a card on tv like a Main Event that would have Savage vs Andre and Hogan vs DiBiase for the title. In those two matches I would have Savage win by dq after Andre dominates most of the match and somehow loses by DQ whether Savage pulls a fast one or Andre doesn't break a hold after the 5 count. Either way Andre still looks strong but Savage wins. In the Main Event you have Hogan losing to Dibiase after Andre interfers. This leads to a rematch with Hogan vs Andre and the Main Event Savage vs Dibiase with the outcomes pretty much the same as it was at WrestleMania IV. That way history wouldn't have really changed that much.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The problem with the tourney was the 14 man side of things to shoehorn Hogan and Andre into it. Byes make things messy where as a 16 or 8 man tourney would have been cleaner, much as King Of the Ring was.

The other issue was that the participants were erring on the new side of the roster. Rude, Bam Bam, Duggan, Gang were all at most or less than a year into their runs so it wasn't really filled with guys who had "waited years" for this chance.

I'd have used the 8 man format personally, with the following brackets:-

1st Round

DiBiase v Jake - DiBiase of course wins this and does so impressively he beats Bret in the semi in a match that "makes" both men. Bad News costs Bret the win by deliberately striking DiBiase to get Bret DQ'd then taking a bag of money from him as DiBiase laughs... Bret goes crazy much as he did, but instead of destroying a trophy, he throws Bad News' money to the crowd.

Bad News v Bret (Bret wins the Battle Royale at the start of the show to gain entry to the tourney, and is the "cinderella story" he and Bad News redo their classic Stampede match where Bret defeats Bad News with one of his trademark roll ups.)

Honky v Brutus (Honky demands entry but is furious when Jack Tunney rules that the IC title will be on the line in the tournament until the final when just the WWF title would be on the line. Honky wants to be the double champion but was not planning on risking his own gold and cheats to defeat Brutus before dropping the IC in the semi to Savage.

Randy Savage v Rick Rude Rude is the only 'newcomer' I would put in the tourney, he would lose the match when Heenan botches an interference but he would look very strong.

The rest of the show would have similar matchup to those seen on the PPV but I'd make a big point of Bam Bam defeating against Gang and Duggan vs Reed. Of course in reality we know Duggan was being punished at the time but I can overlook that.

Savage would come out IC champion (which he was originally going to be till Honky refused to drop) and you'd have a title v title match for the first Summerslam which he would win and of course Bret v Bad News would be the new IC title feud. Rude would have begun his rivalry with Savage, that would have been a future title feud but my main event would also create 2 new stars.

Hogan would have lost to Andre in a shock when Bam Bam Bigelow, seemingly climbing the cage to try to help Hogan turns heel and does the Headbutt off of the cage allowing Andre to escape. Bigelow is revealed that he was always "with Heenan" and that he only used Humperdink to lull Hogan into a false sense of security.

Jack Tunney comes out and orders the match continue or Andre will be fired. Both guys double team Hogan even through a Hulk up... all seems lost when the Ultimate Warrior runs to the ring and rips the cage door off (as Kane later did with the cell) he clotheslines Andre into the rope tie and Hogan hits the boot/legdrop on Bam Bam. Both men climb the cage and "escape" after posing at the top while Heenan feebly tries to drag Andre through the doorway.

This sets up Warrior and Hogan v Bam Bam & Andre at Summerslam 88. Bam Bam would take Andre's place as the "big man" of the Heenan Family. Further ahead, once Hogan and Warrior win at Summerslam, Bam Bam and Heenan would turn on Andre.

This way you have 4 new stars created from the show. Warrior would look amazingly strong from ripping the door and while we may not have seen the Mega Powers team, Hogan and Warrior at that point could have been equally potent.

 

[FlairFan2003]

The tournament was devised as a way to make Savage's title win as impressive as possible without him beating Hogan himself in the middle of the ring. Hogan wasn't about to go down cleanly to Savage and the company wanted a top fan fave to hold the belt during Hogan's upcoming long absence. If Andre or DiBiase had kept the belt after the twin ref screw job on Hogan they would have clearly been viewed as weak champions and while fans would have cheered Savage's title win it wouldn't have had the same impact, establishing his dominance as a worthy successor to Hogan. They did the same thing with Royal Rumble 92, having Ric Flair beat the whole company in an hour long battle royal to win the title, about as impressive as it gets sans beating Hogan alone in the middle of the ring. Savage had to win 3 matches in one night (and beat a guy in DiBiase who only wrestled twice, advancing via draw that allowed him to skip a match and move forward in the tournament). It was great theater, and it gave an extra "oomph" to Savage's moment.

 

[spaldoni]

I think they should of went with a standard card. The tournament was just to watered down. Another big problem in my opinion was the venue. Trump plaza had a very boring non wrestling crowd which I think hurt the event. In hindsight I would have booked it in a hardcore wrestling venue like the Spectrum in Philly. I agree with Brain. Dibiase vs Savage for the title and Hulk vs Andre in the cage. This double main event would of been an appealing draw. The heel heat Dibiase would of had going into a place like Philly, with the world title he bought would have been ultimate 80s heel. So my card would look like this,

Dibiase vs Savage- world title, I think Savage winning the title in this setting would of put him way over.

Hogan vs Andre- Cage bout- Hogan goes over ending the great feud.

Honkeytonk Man vs Bam Bam Bigelow- IC Title- Bam Bam destroys Honkey only for the Honkey to get a weak Count Out win and piss off the crowd.

Strike Force vs Islanders- Tag Title Match- I thought the islanders were a great team and this would of been a fast pace match. Islanders win the titles.

Bulldogs vs Demolition- Power match up. Demolition turns face down the road and defeat Islanders for the titles.

Hart Foundation vs Rougeaus- Another great Brain pick, Fast pace classic tag match with Rougeaus getting the upset.

Butch Reed/One Man Gang vs Don Muraco/Junkyard Dog- mid south flavored tag bout

Ricky Steamboat vs Greg Valentine- Really liked the tournament match they had so I kept this one.

Rick Rude vs Brutus Beefcake- I think these two could of promoted a good feud and story.

Bad News Brown vs Sam Houston- Squash for Brown to establish him as a force.

Ultimate Warrior wins battle royal, I think this would of been a good way to showcase the Warrior.

Thanks for the post Brain, this was a lot of fun