Did We (The ICW) Ruin The Remainder Of Christian's Career?

[King Booka]

The ICW definitely has a huge voice in the wrestling world today! Whether major or minor wrestling companies want to admitt it or not we make up a huge percentage of the wrestling audience. We voice our opinions, we critique the product, and we are not brain dead to the realities of what goes on in the wrestling world today (As much as they think we are). Now this forum is not about me complaining towards any particular problem because I actually like the product to a degree right now. The issue is "Did we indirectly, ruined a man's future career"?

Now first of all let me say that WE have the right to freely speak on any issues or topics that we choice fit, but in my opinion Christian's career got between the crosshairs of the internet public talk and the wrestling world itself. Here's my case........ (Oh P.S. if you have a problem with my opinion please look up the word opinion first before commenting, please be intelligent and open-minded and don't bash because the ICW world is better than that as a whole!)

Ok, It's no surprise that Vince McMahon is not a fan of internet leaks. He obviously has employees releasing info on the internet or there are just some damn good reporters out there (either way that's not the point). The point is, is that there have been a few story lines and finishes that were change due to internet leaks and gossip. During the elimination chamber ppv, were Edge walked in as WWE champ and left that night with the World Heavyweight Championship competing in two chamber matches. It was reported that during practices of that match, the wwe actually had the ring shielded with curtains as to prevent any body form leaking the ending of the match form inside the company. (if you don't believe me look it up.) If you think about it, that and other action's taken to prevent leaks to our community shows how impact-ful our voice really is, cause if they didn't care about what we talked about or think then they wouldn't change a damn thing.

So in regarding to the 2009 return of Christian it was reported that he was the one that was to be revealed as Jeff Hardy's (current wwe champion at the time) attacker. Now Christian made his return a month before Wrestlemania. This was allegedly suppose to be the fued that lead to Christian vs Hardy for the belt at Wrestlemania. But when the story became damn near offical that the info of his return was true, it spreaded like wildfire in our community because Christian was loved by most fans back before his tna jump and was even loved more when the news of his return became true. Now it wasn't because we knew that he was returning that was the problem, the problem was that wwe didnt want us to know about him being the a ledge attacker. As being only humans we talked and chanted about this info and it eventually got scraped, Matt Hardy became the attacker, and christian was horribly debut on Ecw with no build up leading to his return. This also played a huge role later, leading up to his career today, as we were givin face Christian and not heel Christian, which is the part that drawn more christian fans and merchandise before his departure. (at least more than his face role now.)

Now Christian was a 2x ECW champion and did have an incredible run before the show got cancel but the title wasn't credible compare to the wwe and world championship and to this day no one mentions its past champions on t.v. anymore. Christian is now a mid carder who is pushing 40 and its seems he wont get the push he rightfully deserves. Personally I love Christian so don't think I'm bashing him, it just seems that because we knew and talked about his return in 2009, he's creative plans were changed and ever since then he has gotten no significant main event push. What if he's creative plans were never changed? What If we never blogged, youtube, or discuss his return at all? Do you think the E would have changed his plans anyways? I think his career would have taken another path, but that's just me.

Do you think we were the indirect cause or is it just wwe to blame for just not utitlizing him properly?

 

[Hawkeye]

What ever do you mean? Christian is one half of the most decorated tag team in recent WWE history.He was one of the orginal masters of TLC and pioneered tag team wrestling in our era.Just because he hasn't worn that rusted old relic around his waist mean his career is anything less than legendary. The wrestling business is fickle and dangerous,and the fact that he made it this long with no serious injuries and a loyal fanbase is a testament to his determination and passion for the business. I think it's time you looked beyond world titles to measure your favorite wrestlers successes.

 

[Dwayne_Jason]

I agree with Fox. Look at Shawn, barely a champion in these days. Always a contender but not a champion. Yet he's a Future HOF'er. What Christian needs is a solid feud with an established star to get some fire but that's about it. I think even he knows.

 

[spacephantomx]

Although that is good argument that the IWC might of had a role to play but when hasn't it. It's a well known fact that Vince is not a peep which is a damn shame because Christian of all people deserves to be a world champion. Cards are always subject to change and plans always change regardless of leaks. It all just really depends on the E if Christian is fit to mainevent and become champ which I don't agree with one bit but it's the sad truth when it comes to the E. They put down anyone even if they are incredibly over with the crowd if they don't see fit to shine. Christian was incredibly over in TNA and I don't blame him for making the jump at least he became world champ but coming back to try to do the same well I'm not sure if it was all that smart. The fact of the matter is all we really can do is keep the movement going and hope that one day Vince listens to what the people want and make him champ.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

As far as I remember, the plan was never for Hardy vs Christian to be for the title, but rather, just a grudge match - the same thing Hardy vs Hardy ended up being.

Plus, if management thought Christian was a viable candidate as a world champ, he would have received his title by now or at least a push into the legitimate main event scene. They wouldn't have had ONE story leaked and then completely give up on the guy.

Rather, it seems like we all just need to come to terms with the fact that, as previously thought, Vince & co just do not see Christian as a main eventer, and they gave him the incredibly long ECW title reign as his big reward for his career, and that's about it. He may be a tag champ again, he may taste US/IC gold, but he'll more than likely never be a world champion. If they don't think of it, they don't do it, unless it's a quick random response to an odd set of circumstances (ie, giving Khali the title was most likely never in their plans, but with Taker, Kennedy, and Edge injured, they panicked). This is why it took them so long to give Kane another title reign. This is why they waited so long to give Mysterio another one, and it was quick. Etc.

The IWC didn't ruin anything. If Christian would have made his debut as a heel, attacking Jeff Hardy, he most likely would have even less than he does now, as he wouldn't have the long reign on top of ECW behind him, but rather, he'd most likely be in the position Matt Hardy is right now...save for being more entertaining lol.

 

[King Booka]

What ever do you mean? Christian is one half of the most decorated tag team in recent WWE history.He was one of the orginal masters of TLC and pioneered tag team wrestling in our era.Just because he hasn't worn that rusted old relic around his waist mean his career is anything less than legendary. The wrestling business is fickle and dangerous,and the fact that he made it this long with no serious injuries and a loyal fanbase is a testament to his determination and passion for the business. I think it's time you looked beyond world titles to measure your favorite wrestlers successes.

this is about christian's remaining career not his past achievements. we all know he did great things but undertaker career is legendary, shawn micheals career is legendary, hulk hogan career is legendary, christian career is not. please stay on topic

 

[Kenny Powers]

WWE or any wrestling company could really care less what the IWC wants. Some say Generation ME was hired in TNA because of Dixie's twitter followers, but if that were true then why wouldn't Awesome Kong or Daniels still be in TNA?

Sometimes it works with the fans petitioning for Matt Hardy to come back to WWE a few years ago. A lot of fans are petitioning for Bryan Danielson to come back too. There is power in numbers, but a wrestling company isn't going create storylines or acknowledge the IWC in any way. Michael Cole makes fun of the IWC on NXT every week.

No one here had anything to do with Christian being hired in WWE or even being put on ECW or Smackdown now. People like Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff don't listen to what the internet fans want because they change their minds daily. It's fine to get some feedback, but would you let some bloggers or the IWC run your wrestling company?

 

[King Booka]

I agree with Fox. Look at Shawn, barely a champion in these days. Always a contender but not a champion. Yet he's a Future HOF'er. What Christian needs is a solid feud with an established star to get some fire but that's about it. I think even he knows.

you compare christian career to hbk, christian good but hes no hbk. and besides hbk was a 3 or 4 time heavy wieght champ and was the face of the company in his prime. please stay on topic

WWE or any wrestling company could really care less what the IWC wants. Some say Generation ME was hired in TNA because of Dixie's twitter followers, but if that were true then why wouldn't Awesome Kong or Daniels still be in TNA?

Sometimes it works with the fans petitioning for Matt Hardy to come back to WWE a few years ago. A lot of fans are petitioning for Bryan Danielson to come back too. There is power in numbers, but a wrestling company isn't going create storylines or acknowledge the IWC in any way. Michael Cole makes fun of the IWC on NXT every week.

No one here had anything to do with Christian being hired in WWE or even being put on ECW or Smackdown now. People like Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff don't listen to what the internet fans want because they change their minds daily. It's fine to get some feedback, but would you let some bloggers or the IWC run your wrestling company?

good point but then why was it reported that they changed his creative plans after everyone was talking about it on the internet. even if that wasn't the case and its just because there was a leak and no gossip then obviously they do care to some agree about what we know and think. if they didn't give a shit about internet leaks period you wouldnt hear stories about them changing angles because of it. listen im part of this community as well and im a supporter of the icw but you have to be open minded sometime and look at both sides

 

[mrbrightside]

I don't think Vince really cares about what we think. Yeah, maybe a story or two that gets leaked might get altered, but because creative changes ideas frequently as well. When you think about it, Vince gets 3.5 million viewers for RAW and we are less than 1% of his fan base. And if he REALLY cared about stories getting leaked, then he wouldn't tape NXT and SD on Tuesday and then air them either later that night or on Friday.

As for the Christian thing is concerned, I am pretty sure going to TNA is what screwed him over. Granted, I don't think Christian would've been doing anything in WWE anyways (I think he was feuding with DDP over smiling). Christian is an average wrestler with a little better than average mic skills. He's not the next champ because he simply doesn't have that 'it' factor as a face, and I don't think I could take him seriously as a dark heel and not like the heels him and Edge were as a tag team.

The IWC has hyped Christian up way more than he should be, and now you're disappointed cause of it.

 

[Hawkeye]

this is about christian's remaining career not his past achievements. we all know he did great things but undertaker career is legendary, shawn micheals career is legendary, hulk hogan career is legendary, christian career is not. please stay on topic

You asked had the IWC ruined his career.I took that as you being upset because he hasn't won a world title,am I not correct? Those titles mean little to nothing in terms of having a great career,and I think Christian is on a good ride right now.I would justify my answer further but I already did in my earlier post.

 

[gregp85]

I truely believe Christian made the mistake of going back to the WWE. However you cant blame the man for needing to support his family. Also, im sure he thought he would finally get the push he so deserves. Christian was one of the ppl who kept wwe going while wcw was taking over the ratings. I mean come on we witnessed him in some of the best tag team matches and ladder matches. The guy is a great talent however is personality is not addictive. Like the whole "peeps" thing is a little out of style. But skills wise I think he should be always involved in the us or ic title run.

 

[KoC417]

NO the IWC didn't ruin the remainder of Christian's career. Christian is still on his way to having a pretty good remainder of his career. His past accomplishments aside he doesn't NEED to hold any more titles to have a HoF worthy career. All he needs to do is perform at the level he is known for performing at.

The biggest thing right now holding Christian back is the following:

Vince McMahon- Vince, as has been stated before doesn't see Christian as a high profile/main event star. And let's face it in the WWE it's VINCE making the final decisions.

As far the the "internet" ruining the planned Christian vs. Hardy grudge match you can't REALLY blame the IWC. Yes we did talk about it over and over but if Vince and company are going to let the IWC talking dictate what they do every time then hell why don't we all just always say Sheamus/Cena/Orton/Edge (whoever is currently holding the title at the time of WWE PPVs) is going to lose the title. I mean if they go against what the IWC says that's a way to get the belt off of Sheamus/Cena/Orton/Edge really fast.

We, the people of the Wrestling Universe don't have THAT much pull in an industry controlled by 1 man. The only 2 people right now that can ruin the remainder of Christian's career are VINCE MCMAHON, & Christian. Well them and creative putting him in skits with the likes of Hornswoggle (bahahaha).

 

[Ferbian]

No the IWC hasn't ruined Christian's career at any given point. We've been here for a long period of time, and Christian has as well. Christian has been doing just fine throughout his whole career. He might never have been in the position to win a world championship within WWE. But he has done more than enough to build a great career. Nobody needs a world title to have a great career. I mean just look at Ted DiBiase Sr. who was inducted as the main attraction at this year's Hall of Fame induction ceremony. And he never held a world title.

That just means that Christian, who has quite a long resume of championships under his name, can more than enough pull off a great career, even if he retired today. Christian could also very well go on to win more championships, not because of the IWC chanting for him, or booing him. But because he is a successful guy that can most definitely carry any division he's put in.

 

[dman1373]

No the IWC hasn't ruined Christian's career at any given point. We've been here for a long period of time, and Christian has as well. Christian has been doing just fine throughout his whole career. He might never have been in the position to win a world championship within WWE. But he has done more than enough to build a great career. Nobody needs a world title to have a great career. I mean just look at Ted DiBiase Sr. who was inducted as the main attraction at this year's Hall of Fame induction ceremony. And he never held a world title.

That just means that Christian, who has quite a long resume of championships under his name, can more than enough pull off a great career, even if he retired today. Christian could also very well go on to win more championships, not because of the IWC chanting for him, or booing him. But because he is a successful guy that can most definitely carry any division he's put in.

Untrue Ted Dibiase was world champion. He bought it off of andre the Giant, but he only had it for like a day, but I do agree that you don't need a world title to be a success, and i will use another example. Roddy Piper, he headlined the first wrestlemania. He deserves all the credit in the world for being the top heel in the company, but did he ever win a world title, no.

 

[Chauncy Talon]

I laugh on how people just write for days about a subject like a college student does before their question.

1. Christian won the Light Heavyweight title in his 1st match in WWF/E.
2. Christian return on ECW shocked the World because he was not on WWE television for over 3 to 4 years. Also, he was pushed to Main Event status (ECW) when he got to the show.
3. Christian put a lot of ECW younger talent over with the crowd for every title match. He has some of the most memorible matches that ECW had witness. (WWE edition).
4. Christian is still undefeated in Ladder matches in WWE.
5. He also held the NWA Heavyweight Title on 2 seperate occusions.

 

[Ferbian]

Untrue Ted Dibiase was world champion. He bought it off of andre the Giant, but he only had it for like a day, but I do agree that you don't need a world title to be a success, and i will use another example. Roddy Piper, he headlined the first wrestlemania. He deserves all the credit in the world for being the top heel in the company, but did he ever win a world title, no.

Ted DiBiase was never recognized as a world champion. So that is untrue, the WWE championship list shows no sign of Ted DiBiase ever having been champion. It wasn't recognized by WWE as a title change. So Ted DiBiase has in fact made a great career just like Christian, without being world champion (in WWE nonetheless, seeing as Christian has been world champion).

But I agree, Roddy Piper has as well had a great career without a world title. And it only solidifies that there's a large amount of talent in the world of wrestling that has in fact gone on to have a great career. And Christian is one of them.

 

[JBK2008]

Vince doesn't care what we think and he does hate leaks on the internet so I wouldn't be surprised if that all played a role in Christian's current role in the WWE. Christian may go down as one of the best to never win the "big one". He's been incredible on the stick, great in the ring and draws the fans into everyone one of his matches. I don't think the IWC ruined his career. If anything, it got more followers to chant his name. If Vince doesn't take a chance on him, then it's his loss. Christian will still be rooted for no matter what!

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

I don't think so either.

I have never seen the big hub hub about him "needing" a push. I just don't think Christian has the pizazz of a main eventer. If you look at the top of the card talent, outside of Rey (don't get me started lol), those guys make Christian look like a walking toothpick and they tend to be much more marketable than just a bunch of people who hates all the top guys. Even when he was in TNA and was forced fed into the main event scene, it didn't go over well.. And that iMPACT! Zone would chant "That was awesome!" as a firing squad shot someone.

No doubt the guy has charisma and can move, but not every wrestler will, can or "deserves" to be the guy someone builds a brand behind.

 

[mrbrightside]

I laugh on how people just write for days about a subject like a college student does before their question.
4. Christian is still undefeated in Ladder matches in WWE.

He lost a ladder match to edge at wrestlemania for the IC title

 

[Rasha]

listen im part of this community as well and im a supporter of the icw but you have to be open minded sometime and look at both sides

Follow your own advice, pal. You started a thread and are quickly lunging at anyone who disagrees.

What you seem to be forgetting is that wrestling isn't ALL about the unexpected twists. Much of what the industry is built on is the satisfaction of expectations; the hero beats the villain and the peasants rejoice. My point is that if Vince really believed in Christian, he wouldn't cancel plans just to preserve the element of surprise. He hasn't done a single unpredictable thing with Cena in the last several years, but clearly the machine is behind him.

Also, surprise isn't always the best thing. Remember the original "Countdown" when Jericho first debuted? We all knew who was coming. But that didn't stop that moment from being awesome (still one of the biggest pops I can remember). In many ways, the anticipation of Jericho's arrival added to the excitement. You were waiting for it, you wanted it, it seeemed soooo close... AND BOOM! There it was! Expectation satisfied!

To be fair, I think you made some valid points about Vince wanting try and throw the IWC for a loop when he can. But there's no way he'd cancel someone's push on that basis. With the decline of the industry and decreased revenue, he's not going to let anyone he believes can sell sit on the backburner. Christian's lack of main event opportunity is clear evidence of the way he's valued by Vince.

 

[Rasha]

1. Christian won the Light Heavyweight title in his 1st match in WWF/E.

I believe the topic was about Christian being a Main Eventer, right? I don't remember Christian vs. Taka Michinoku headlining anything.

2. Christian return on ECW shocked the World because he was not on WWE television for over 3 to 4 years. Also, he was pushed to Main Event status (ECW) when he got to the show.

3. Christian put a lot of ECW younger talent over with the crowd for every title match. He has some of the most memorible matches that ECW had witness. (WWE edition).

If you think Main Event status in ECW is the same as on RAW or Smackdown, then you're kidding yourself. The fact Christian returned there and not to one of the big shows was a slap in the face, not a reward.

4. Christian is still undefeated in Ladder matches in WWE.

Against who? And for what stakes? IC Title? Would you compare his Ladder Match streak to Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak? I highly doubt it.

5. He also held the NWA Heavyweight Title on 2 seperate occusions.

How is that even relevant? This was about Christian and the WWE. If anything, that further supports the idea that Vince doesn't value him. He was Main Eventing in TNA and had built a huge fanbase that now crossed over both promotions, but Vince still didn't give him the big push when he returned.

 

[Zigglerfan227]

I do believe that Christian will never hold a world title in the WWE. He was lucky to have held a title in TNA. I do not know if we had anything to do with Christian not being Hardy's attacker because that could have been a rumor anyway. He could have never even been planned to attack Hardy.

Christian will end up being kinda like Mr. Perfect, Jake Roberts, Ricky Steamboat, and Rick Rude. He will end up like these men, the guys who were good but never won a world title. I think Ted Dibiasi (the original) and Roddy Piper should have held the WWE/WWF title at one time in their career but they never did. Christian will have to be accepted for what he is. He has held the tag titles, the IC title, and the ECW title so he will be alright.

(P.S. Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude, Ricky Steamboat, Jake the Snake Roberts, and Christian are not on the same level as Roddy Piper and Ted Dibiasi.)

 

[Miss Flawless]

First of all, no we didn't ruin his career. The fact that Christian doesn't have a "good career" is because Vince McMahon never liked him. That is the reason why. It has nothing to do with the IWC.

And, to anybody comparing Christians career to HBK's career, they shouldn't be. HBK's career included main event status, couple of world titles and awesome feuds. What does Christian have? He had a couple of ECW title runs, (Which are not the same as WHC or WWE title) he had a short feud with Edge...the only thing that is totally memorable about Christians career, is that he was apart of the making of tables, ladders and chairs. TLC. Also, another memorable thing for me, is that he made tag wrestling the most interesting type of wrestling for me. I didn't like tag wrestling until E and C, Hardys and Dudleys feuds were going on.

I guess Christians career started off good, the middle was just terrible, and the ending...well lets see, hopefully he will get some sort of title run.

 

[red ass skull muhfukkah]

I don't think the IWC ruined his career because Vince and Co. simply don't care what the IWC thinks, because we are the minority. They don't pay enough attention to us to want to crush one of our favorite's career.

But I don't think his career is ruined, as many of said he has had a long career,a prominent tag team career with Edge, a bunch of mid-card title runs, and a long and memorable reign as ECW Champion.

Also I wouldn't be surprise if he gets the World Title 2 times, can't picture him winning it more though and probably not until next year. He is far too over not to get at least a Title Shot by the end of next year.

 

[Sasori]

Nah, as much as I want Christian to succeed as world champion, Christian is doing fine, I realized that Christian isn't gonna be a world champion in the WWE, around Wrestlemania 26, and you really shouldn't keep your hope up. I think that if WWE thought of CHristian as main event talent he would have been up there years ago.